I can file for divorce in 30 days, I'm sad [update: I stopped the divorce]

April 17, 2014

It has been a long year. There were many ups and downs. We have both worked on ourselves a lot. Oddly enough, now I think he would probably make a great husband. The problem is, I'm no longer sure I could be a great wife anymore. I fear that a small part of me will always hold it against him. He deserves better than that and do do I. He is still fighting to save us. He can't seem to envision me not being his wife. It all saddens me greatly. I don't want my family to be torn apart, but I struggle to find respect for myself in staying. Is this a hurdle Any of you struggled with? What was your decision and why?

April 17, 2014

This is great insight. The fallout of behaving badly is that the people who have self respect can't stay with someone who has a lack of character.

G

April 17, 2014

Yes, thats hard for me too-its a hurdle I struggle with often-I do think well, now that I know everything and have processed most of it-is this what I really want-someone capable of such awful things- He knows this and says-all I can do is work hard to change and we someone worthy of you-I need to get to the point where that is enough for me-I get closer everyday but I am not there yet-

Please be honest with your husband-you can not do as he did and keep him in the dark-talk open, honestly and calmly about what your hurdles are and see how he reacts-

Best of luck to you both-

April 17, 2014

WOW. This is totally me today. This week. The next 8 days. ON the 25th of april is DDay, but this month has been a horror show for me, because it is the month when the PA was at its peak, 3 times a week, tuesdays, thursdays, and sundays... and although after a full year of R, I ask myself the same questions you are asking.

Two days ago I sent my WS this article that helped her to understand what I was going through (it's not just about the triggers, the intrusions over the affair, it is about me as a person). It speaks to the core of who we are as persons living after infidelity in a marriage of reconciliation. It tells me that we have a burden to bear the rest of our lives.

https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/cost-of-forgiving-infidelity

Im by no means big on christiantiy, in fact, Im an athiest, but his arguments about the cost of forgiveness ring very true to me today.

It has been a long year. There were many ups and downs. We have both worked on ourselves a lot. Oddly enough, now I think he would probably make a great husband. The problem is, I'm no longer sure I could be a great wife anymore. I fear that a small part of me will always hold it against him. He deserves better than that and do do I. He is still fighting to save us. He can't seem to envision me not being his wife. It all saddens me greatly. I don't want my family to be torn apart, but I struggle to find respect for myself in staying. Is this a hurdle Any of you struggled with? What was your decision and why?

Edited April 17, 2014 by fellini

April 17, 2014

Yes, thats hard for me too-its a hurdle I struggle with often-I do think well, now that I know everything and have processed most of it-is this what I really want-someone capable of such awful things- He knows this and says-all I can do is work hard to change and we someone worthy of you-I need to get to the point where that is enough for me-I get closer everyday but I am not there yet-

Please be honest with your husband-you can not do as he did and keep him in the dark-talk open, honestly and calmly about what your hurdles are and see how he reacts-

Best of luck to you both-

I have told him. I've just always been an open person so it never even occurred to me to keep any of my struggles to myself. He said he knows what kind of person I am and that my forgiving came with a great price. He knows it is an assault on my own values to try to stay. He will continue to work hard and prays that I will give him one last chance, because all he'll ever need is one more.

April 17, 2014

That may be true for you.

I'd say it this way: The fallout of behaving badly is that the people who have shown enormous compassion in terms of forgiveness cannot stay with someone who has done what they have done, regardless of the positive changes in demonstrating their remorse.

My WS showed lack of character, but she not someone who HAS A LACK of character. This is what makes it harder. In fact, some of the literature on reconciliation argues that in leaving your WS after reconciliation you are handing all your hard work onto someone who will benefit, that your WS has gone through the process of reconciliation and recovery makes him/her a better candidate for marriage. And in doing so, you might end up with someone who has ZERO experience and put you right back in the same boat in the future.

(As you can imagine, I am not in the once a cheat, always a cheat camp. I offer no apologies for that.)

In terms of what the OP has said, though, that I might leave my WS and give another man a stronger marriage is not my concern. My concern is living with me, what I have become, and what the future has in store for me having all these issues in my head because I forgave. It has nothing to do with my WS who might now make Mother Teresa look like the wicked witch of the west.

This is great insight. The fallout of behaving badly is that the people who have self respect can't stay with someone who has a lack of character.
G

Edited April 17, 2014 by fellini

April 17, 2014

WOW. This is totally me today. This week. The next 8 days. ON the 25th of april is DDay, but this month has been a horror show for me, because it is the month when the PA was at its peak, 3 times a week, tuesdays, thursdays, and sundays... and although after a full year of R, I ask myself the same questions you are asking.

Two days ago I sent my WS this article that helped her to understand what I was going through (it's not just about the triggers, the intrusions over the affair, it is about me as a person). It speaks to the core of who we are as persons living after infidelity in a marriage of reconciliation. It tells me that we have a burden to bear the rest of our lives.

https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/cost-of-forgiving-infidelity

Im by no means big on christiantiy, in fact, Im an athiest, but his arguments about the cost of forgiveness ring very true to me today.

Thank you for this! It expresses exactly how I feel. How do you deal with it?

April 17, 2014

Thank you for this! It expresses exactly how I feel. How do you deal with it?

Sorry, I cross posted. I agree that he probably is a better bet than someone else after all his hard work. The struggle really is mostly internal.

April 17, 2014

Pff. Now you have me in tears. Im still dealing with it. I promised my WS I would wait until we passed through our 1 year anniversary before doing anything. Im just focussed on getting through the memories of the enormous deceit and massive betrayal of her being in a relationship with another man while I took care of things at home, dedicated myself to our daughter, and her life, thinking all the while she was working harder to get better publications and research for her professional career. This occupies so much of my time, Im hoping that after the 25th of April I will know what I want to do, and why I want to do it.

I am preparing myself for the inevitability that there is no win-win here, there is not win-lose. There is only lose-lose.

And the one thing that will help me to stay is knowing that although she betrayed us, our family, and everything we spend 17 years building, that she too is, seeing how I am, living in a lose-lose world with me. Or without me.

I think this is what follows remorse. The awareness that you have the rest of your life to live with a pain that you brought upon yourself.

Thank you for this! It expresses exactly how I feel. How do you deal with it?

April 17, 2014

Not to rain on the parade, but I too hoped that the one year mark would be some magical date that makes it easier-it did not- I am more calm, we are getting along great day to day but there is still a lot of "we have to live with this for the rest of our lives" moments that are difficult-

For me, I know I would be hurt and healing no matter if we were together or apart so since I love him and want to be with him-we are working through the pain together-

His remorse and guilt has intensified over time- I guess the realization of how interwoven this all is in our lives surprised him-the reality that we are forever changed not only as a couple but as individuals is difficult for him to bear-

We are two damaged hurting people hanging on to each other because we love each other and know we are the best ones to get each other through this-

KWIM?

April 17, 2014

Pff. Now you have me in tears. Im still dealing with it. I promised my WS I would wait until we passed through our 1 year anniversary before doing anything. Im just focussed on getting through the memories of the enormous deceit and massive betrayal of her being in a relationship with another man while I took care of things at home, dedicated myself to our daughter, and her life, thinking all the while she was working harder to get better publications and research for her professional career. This occupies so much of my time, Im hoping that after the 25th of April I will know what I want to do, and why I want to do it.

I am preparing myself for the inevitability that there is no win-win here, there is not win-lose. There is only lose-lose.

And the one thing that will help me to stay is knowing that although she betrayed us, our family, and everything we spend 17 years building, that she too is, seeing how I am, living in a lose-lose world with me. Or without me.

I think this is what follows remorse. The awareness that you have the rest of your life to live with a pain that you brought upon yourself.

I totally understand these tears. I can relate so much to how you are feeling. I guess for each of us we have envision our lives with or without our spouses and make peace with which path is best. Neither is easy. If there is any light here, I think it is that we have mates who are regretful and show remorse. My heart aches for the bs who didn't at least get that. He declares he will keep trying even after a divorce. In all honesty I find that as I have gotten closer to the divorce date, I think more on what reconciling could be like. It's tough. Thank you all for responding. I hope you all find a little joy and something to smile about today.

April 17, 2014

Pff. Now you have me in tears. Im still dealing with it. I promised my WS I would wait until we passed through our 1 year anniversary before doing anything. Im just focussed on getting through the memories of the enormous deceit and massive betrayal of her being in a relationship with another man while I took care of things at home, dedicated myself to our daughter, and her life, thinking all the while she was working harder to get better publications and research for her professional career. This occupies so much of my time, Im hoping that after the 25th of April I will know what I want to do, and why I want to do it.

I am preparing myself for the inevitability that there is no win-win here, there is not win-lose. There is only lose-lose.

And the one thing that will help me to stay is knowing that although she betrayed us, our family, and everything we spend 17 years building, that she too is, seeing how I am, living in a lose-lose world with me. Or without me.

I think this is what follows remorse. The awareness that you have the rest of your life to live with a pain that you brought upon yourself.

My dday was this month too (today to be exact), but that date doesn't mean as much to me at the end of the second year as it did the first year.

I hope things get easier for you, my second year was tough, tougher than the first in many ways. Here's hoping for a better third year.

April 17, 2014

Thanks for this. NO, not a magic date at all. For me the stress of this month is sufficient to work with. What I meant to say is that I dont see any point in addressing stay/go questions while im dealing with emotions that I know are upfront and center only because of their signifance in terms of it being April. January and March were much better than this week, February was our wedding anniversary which we did not celebrate. So im betting on May to be less intrusion intensive because it is not marked with triggers of any kind.

Not to rain on the parade, but I too hoped that the one year mark would be some magical date that makes it easier-it did not- I am more calm, we are getting along great day to day but there is still a lot of "we have to live with this for the rest of our lives" moments that are difficult-

For me, I know I would be hurt and healing no matter if we were together or apart so since I love him and want to be with him-we are working through the pain together-

His remorse and guilt has intensified over time- I guess the realization of how interwoven this all is in our lives surprised him-the reality that we are forever changed not only as a couple but as individuals is difficult for him to bear-

We are two damaged hurting people hanging on to each other because we love each other and know we are the best ones to get each other through this-

KWIM?

April 17, 2014

Purple- I too struggle with my values and self respect for staying. When I am very low I think about times throughout our life that I have let him down emotionally and remind myself that he is human and makes mistakes. I know that sounds really fluffy but believe me our life is a mess as we try to weave through this pain, but when the stay or go question comes that part always makes me stay. You know him and know if what he is saying about the second chance he wants is true. I know it's hard to trust, the hardest part, but deep down you know if he means it. Look at his actions for the answer. I feel strongly that when I compare the man I see now to the man during the A they are not the same person. I have found some insight and comfort in a blog I found that is focused on women who have chosen to R after an A and is led by a BS who H was a serial cheater. Betrayed wives blog is the name. I don't agree with everyone on there but it certainly has given me some different perspectives to consider. I wish you peace in whatever you choose to do.

April 17, 2014

https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/cost-of-forgiving-infidelity

This is one the best articles I've read on this subject. I found out about my wife's affair 8 years after it ended. I can relate to the scenario described in the article, and it is 100% spot on. Spot on!

One thing that has stuck with me over the years is this. No matter if a couple reconciles or divorces; the price paid is extremely high. For my situation, I look back at all the pain that we BOTH went through. I look at what my WW risked for a few months of excitement. I look at what she gave away to another man. A man that was in her life for only 6 months or so (affair was 3-4 months). Just read Sophie2013's story. Look at what her casual hook-up(s) cost her and her family.

Last week we had another discussion about her affair (after I had a trigger). When she speaks of her affair, she has never mentioned the OM by name. This short affair with a man that she can't even bring herself to mention his name came with an incredibly steep price tag. For me, my sense of pride (ego) and sense of justice is my biggest struggles.

I am religious, and James 2:13, Matthew 18:21-35, and the story of Joseph (Genesis 50:20) motivated me to continue to forgive. Every now and then I still go back and read those passages. Reconciling was my decision, but I don't blame anyone for choosing divorce. Sometimes the damage is too great. Sometinmes the marriage itself is not worth the effort.

BTW - This Easter we will celebrate our 6th anniversary of our "new" marriage. (6 years post D-day)

April 17, 2014

Congrats on six years! Reading positive stories does give some hope. My WH has never called is ap by name either. So sad that he risked everything and she is only referred to as 'her'. When I try to put myself in his shoes of course I would want another chance myself. I'm not afraid of the hard work, but I want it to be worth, no guaranties.

April 17, 2014

WOW. This is totally me today. This week. The next 8 days. ON the 25th of april is DDay, but this month has been a horror show for me, because it is the month when the PA was at its peak, 3 times a week, tuesdays, thursdays, and sundays... and although after a full year of R, I ask myself the same questions you are asking.

Two days ago I sent my WS this article that helped her to understand what I was going through (it's not just about the triggers, the intrusions over the affair, it is about me as a person). It speaks to the core of who we are as persons living after infidelity in a marriage of reconciliation. It tells me that we have a burden to bear the rest of our lives.

https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/cost-of-forgiving-infidelity

Im by no means big on christiantiy, in fact, Im an athiest, but his arguments about the cost of forgiveness ring very true to me today.

This is a great article, thank you so much for posting it.

April 17, 2014

Interesting that three people have commented on this. My WS - during those tug of war days about the affair - made it very clear to me: do not use his name when talking about the affair. Hearing his name hurt more than being dragged through the rehashing of events.

So we use a code word for him, because he was a single male AP, and they both continue to work at the same university in the same faculty, we decided to call him "trouble". (After the Taylor Swift song)

Now we can talk about him this way. "How was work" "No trouble at all" to assure me there was no contact.

If we want to talk about real issues at work we use the word "problems" instead.

She has ZERO problems talking about her AP by referring to him always as "trouble" yet it serves us both as a reminder that "trouble" is always just around the corner, and we need to keep trouble out of our lives in order to solve our problems.

April 17, 2014

My husband are in the 5+ years post his disclosure. I know his confession and work on himself sped up our healing process leaps in bounds. I did not have a bad second year and by the end of it I knew I had a good marriage. But it wasn't just him working on himself it was me too. not me working on beig a better wife but rather me working on being a better me all the way around. I was codependant and realized i needed to lose that for me. I needed to be at the place that should he or any other man betray me again it would hurt but I would know I would be okay. I had to let go of feeling superior because "I didn't cheat". At the time of his affair i was being the better person but now? He is a wonderful man and I do not define him by his past. I had to swallow my pride as I always thought cheating was a simple they do it they are out the door. But for some love, children, history, and seeing unquestionable remorse can make the choice a little less simple. And of course I had to realize I didn't have to keep telling him my staying wasn't saying cheatig is okay because he knew that and he regretted it and honestly is now probably more regretful over his cheating than I am. I have no dark stain on my past.

I am very pro forgiveness with second chances if remorse and repentance are there. But you need a lot of things for it to work. And even then marriages fail for other reasons. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself for doubting. There is no crystal ball telling you what the future will be with or without him.

April 17, 2014

Interesting post, thoughtful and detailed.

For my part the issue isn't about trust (I don't believe my WS will cheat on me again. Although I cannot be sure, I don't believe it will happen - but this is not the same "I never thought she would cheat" that I held prior to d-day no, it's not a blind faith, it's an educated faith based on seeing real remorse during this year.

And I think to some extent her cheating has struck her core being about who she thought she was and what she thought she was capable of without using external conditions as excuses. ("My needs", "my depression", "my happiness.."etc. all these attempts at external excuses have been dealt with and she now owns it to the core. She knows she lost her dignity, and has struggled to get it back)

What I think the OP, and myself for sure, are talking about is not about trust or faith, or forgiveness OF the WS. We are talking about accepting who WE have had to come, the price we have had to pay to continue in our marriages in spite of, and completely independent of the success of recovery.

I asked my WS the same question, rhetorical as it might be, for her to understand me: "If I take you back, and I forgive you, and I try to forgive myself for forgiving you.... WHAT is LEFT that is UNFORGIVABLE? (I don't mean HER, I mean ME.) If I take on this forgiveness, what have I become?

Have I RAISED the bar on forgiveness? Or have I LOWERED it?

My husband are in the 5+ years post his disclosure. I know his confession and work on himself sped up our healing process leaps in bounds. I did not have a bad second year and by the end of it I knew I had a good marriage. But it wasn't just him working on himself it was me too. not me working on beig a better wife but rather me working on being a better me all the way around. I was codependant and realized i needed to lose that for me. I needed to be at the place that should he or any other man betray me again it would hurt but I would know I would be okay. I had to let go of feeling superior because "I didn't cheat". At the time of his affair i was being the better person but now? He is a wonderful man and I do not define him by his past. I had to swallow my pride as I always thought cheating was a simple they do it they are out the door. But for some love, children, history, and seeing unquestionable remorse can make the choice a little less simple. And of course I had to realize I didn't have to keep telling him my staying wasn't saying cheatig is okay because he knew that and he regretted it and honestly is now probably more regretful over his cheating than I am. I have no dark stain on my past.

I am very pro forgiveness with second chances if remorse and repentance are there. But you need a lot of things for it to work. And even then marriages fail for other reasons. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself for doubting. There is no crystal ball telling you what the future will be with or without him.

Edited April 17, 2014 by fellini

April 17, 2014

Interesting post, thoughtful and detailed.

For my part the issue isn't about trust (I don't believe my WS will cheat on me again. Although I cannot be sure, I don't believe it will happen - but this is not the same "I never thought she would cheat" that I held prior to d-day no, it's not a blind faith, it's an educated faith based on seeing real remorse during this year.

And I think to some extent her cheating has struck her core being about who she thought she was and what she thought she was capable of without using external conditions as excuses. ("My needs", "my depression", "my happiness.."etc. all these attempts at external excuses have been dealt with and she now owns it to the core. She knows she lost her dignity, and has struggled to get it back)

What I think the OP, and myself for sure, are talking about is not about trust or faith, or forgiveness OF the WS. We are talking about accepting who WE have had to come, the price we have had to pay to continue in our marriages in spite of, and completely independent of the success of recovery.

I asked my WS the same question, rhetorical as it might be, for her to understand me: "If I take you back, and I forgive you, and I try to forgive myself for forgiving you.... WHAT is LEFT that is UNFORGIVABLE? (I don't mean HER, I mean ME.) If I take on this forgiveness, what have I become?

Have I RAISED the bar on forgiveness? Or have I LOWERED it?

I think you over think it and disect it until nothing is left. I don't think that way about forgiveness so it isn't really something I can relate to. If the betrayal wasn't so huge then the forgiveness wouldn't be so great. It is easy to forgive the little things done against us. And I also don't think forgiveness needs e accompanied with reconciliation so that is also why i don't think forgiveness ha anything to do with lowering your standards or all that other stuff.

Our thoughts really are our own worst enemy.

April 17, 2014

I do not think any BS here EVER views their Marriage, their WS, i would go as far as to say their Life the same .

My WW had an A with her Boss..as i have said i knew in my gut something was amiss...But could not or would not see the Dozens of red flags before me.

To Sum it up..I found out details ( through investigation and telling his BW) at the second these details came to light i knew i could not ever forgive much less forget what had occured..Though there are many here who have R ... However I was not going to spend the rest of my life wondering how much of my Marriage was indeed a Lie...

If you stay She must show you Remorse and openness with EVERYTHING you need or require to heal...Can this be done and marriages be saved...YES ...I just could not take the things i found out and was unwilling to continue in (my opinion) a lie.

April 17, 2014

Interesting post, thoughtful and detailed.

For my part the issue isn't about trust (I don't believe my WS will cheat on me again. Although I cannot be sure, I don't believe it will happen - but this is not the same "I never thought she would cheat" that I held prior to d-day no, it's not a blind faith, it's an educated faith based on seeing real remorse during this year.

And I think to some extent her cheating has struck her core being about who she thought she was and what she thought she was capable of without using external conditions as excuses. ("My needs", "my depression", "my happiness.."etc. all these attempts at external excuses have been dealt with and she now owns it to the core. She knows she lost her dignity, and has struggled to get it back)

What I think the OP, and myself for sure, are talking about is not about trust or faith, or forgiveness OF the WS. We are talking about accepting who WE have had to come, the price we have had to pay to continue in our marriages in spite of, and completely independent of the success of recovery.

I asked my WS the same question, rhetorical as it might be, for her to understand me: "If I take you back, and I forgive you, and I try to forgive myself for forgiving you.... WHAT is LEFT that is UNFORGIVABLE? (I don't mean HER, I mean ME.) If I take on this forgiveness, what have I become?

Have I RAISED the bar on forgiveness? Or have I LOWERED it?

The price is so high. All the gilt has been wiped off our gingerbread. There is none left. Now all we are is a middle-aged couple, not beautiful, not that successful, not rich, and now we don't even have that rare and special thing that we were exclusive for 31 years. I am just a plain ordinary sad old betrayed wife not good enough to be faithful to. He is just one more pathetic needy ageing man attracted by a pretty younger woman. What is left that we cling to? Price is so so high.

April 17, 2014

We are two damaged hurting people hanging on to each other because we love each other and know we are the best ones to get each other through this-

Wow can I relate! I feel the same way.

I still struggle with why I stay two years later, especially since I have experienced more than one DDay. I wonder where my self respect is and was and what it means by staying. The things I do know are that I see my fWH getting better in time and his remorse grows every day. I see how hard he is fighting to keep our M and that makes me want to stay. I know I love my fWH. Reconciliation is one of the hardest things I have ever been through besides the A's my fWH had.

April 17, 2014

I think you over think it and disect it until nothing is left. I don't think that way about forgiveness so it isn't really something I can relate to. If the betrayal wasn't so huge then the forgiveness wouldn't be so great. It is easy to forgive the little things done against us. And I also don't think forgiveness needs e accompanied with reconciliation so that is also why i don't think forgiveness ha anything to do with lowering your standards or all that other stuff.

Our thoughts really are our own worst enemy.

Strange thought that, I thought I was talking about how I felt, not what I was thinking.

I think you confuse what you think are disection and overthink with the difficulties one has in finding words ( trying to communicate the emotional realm) to adequately explain profound loss some of us experience and feel, deeply. As a first time BS I lack the orientation and solid ground upon which to describe what has passed in this past year. This is understandable because as in any trauma, we dont have the necessary vocabulary to adequately express.

Nor is expressing this loss something that many have had practice at doing in a public forum, such as this one. I grew up in a culture that doesnt present many opportunities for one to express these complex feelings in simple words. But words are my tools, and I try.

I think, more importantly, that you did not read the article I linked at the top of this thread, because it clearly and beautifully communicates these concepts, and in fact discusses two kinds of forgiveness, the second being related to reconciliation, which is in contrast to what you just said.

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I can file for divorce in 30 days, I'm sad [update: I stopped the divorce]

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