He's dumping me...

[serial muse]

Why wasn't he acting this way from the beginning? I think he was. Phoe mentioned that they were having "blue in the face" fights from the very start. I think his behavior has gotten progressively worse as he keeps pushing the boundaries. It just took him a while to get to the sexual things and serious mind fu*ks.

 

I think he was, too. But as he learns her boundaries better, he has a better idea of how to push those buttons. I mean, what about this:

 

Little things that we may have argued about 2 months ago, we have learned from. Today he needed me to pick him up again and he accidentally sent me to the wrong location. He called me asking where I was, I told him I was where he told me to be. He said he didn't mean there, that he meant somewhere else. I explained that He specifically told me to go to the place where I was. OK. Right or wrong, whatever, he's not here, gotta go pick him up where he actually is. Drop it. I arrive to pick him up, as soon as he gets in my truck "I'm sorry baby, I did tell you wrong, I remember now." - easy day. 2 months ago we would've argued about that until we were blue in the face. We are both MASSIVELY stubborn. We would've both insisted we were right had this happened 2 months ago, and instead we both decided it was not worth it.

 

But Phoe. You were right. He wasn't. There really shouldn't be any argument about this - from him!!!

 

There's no part of this that was actually your fault, but you are very ready to "share" the blame and make it seem like you were "both" being stubborn. But that's not true: You were right here, and he was wrong, and he simply wouldn't admit it. There's no equality there; but by now he knows that in an effort to find that equality, you will take on FAR more blame than is your fair share, and let him off the hook. So, progressively, he uses that to his advantage.

 

I'm worried for you; I hope you're at least considering the possibility that this guy isn't actually good to you. Certainly not good enough. He's telling the truth when he tells you that, at least. And that you don't agree with him about that is actually a problem: He will keep pushing as much as he can. I am so glad that you've refused to marry him, but that's not enough pushing back, really. Don't let him get away with pretending you're equally in the wrong when actually, you aren't.

[somedude81]

Phoe, if it's not too personal, how active has your father been in your life?

[sooshi]

Phoe, you are not in the wrong. I know fully well what it's like to give power to someone else and that when they attribute blame to you, you take it, even when THEY are completely the one in the wrong.

 

My ex-fiance pursued my best friend shortly after he ended our engagement. My friend let it happen by not telling me for a while. She told me she enjoyed the attention and the desire, and wanted to see how far he would go. She also didn't take him seriously (they've never met in person). He wrote a love song for her and sent it to me (never wrote a song for me).

 

In all of this, he told ME that I was in the wrong, causing intolerable drama for blocking him and encouraging my friend to do the same. I TOOK THE BLAME. Completely and fully. Why? Because of my lack of self-esteem and because I had given him SO much power over the years. If he told me I was wrong and was as mad as he was, he was surely right. But NO NO NO. His actions were unacceptable, just like that of this guy. But because we want to be kind, understanding, and great friends/partners, we take it.

 

It was NOT my fault. I was NOT in the wrong. The outpour of insights on this forum showed me this. I could not see it, even for a while after people were pointing out this and that. It took me a good few weeks of thoughts and insights from the people here for me to really be able to break through my strong mold of justifying my ex and friend while casting blame upon myself for everything. Ugh, sooshi. Never again!!!!

 

It was not my fault. Just like it is NOT your fault when this guy gets upset when you don't do something he wants, or when you aren't "perfect." You're an AMAZING girl and an AMAZING partner, who just isn't very assertive. But you are NOT in the wrong. NOT AT ALL.

[Els]

Oh, Phoe. I really don't know what to say.

 

I just really hope that someday you'll meet someone who will treat you well and whom you can have a drama-free R with, rather than dealing with all of this crap at 4(?) months.

[bene]

Then why wasn't he acting this way from the beginning?

 

If it really is a serious question then for one, he wouldn't get the nice "normal" girls when he would put into OLD profile that he's into watching his girlfriend giving blowjobs to strangers or has to win every argument or has to have full control in the relationship.

 

Secondly, people who are manipulative or abusive may not perceive themselves this way. They might have some thought process in their mind that they would be nice, if only the other person wouldn't do x, z or y to trigger them. But you can't tiptoe around your partner your whole life, guessing what could set them off or what kind of test are they putting you through.

[BC1980]

I actually don't think the boyfriend deserves a lot of blame in this case. This is how Phoe taught him to treat her. Should he be labeled an abuser for doing what he was taught to do? For repeating the behavior patterns Phoe has shown him she finds acceptable? No. And it doesn't inherently make him a bad guy either.

 

It's a bad dynamic and both are to blame. I had the same dynamic in my last relationship. I had low self esteem, and my ex clearly saw that. He manipulated me and used it to his advantage. He knew I would always be there waiting for him no matter what he did. I was like Phoe. Always worried I wasn't being the perfect girlfriend, always bending and changing in an attempt to please my ex. One of the hardest things was to admit that I had done it to myself. I wanted it to be all his fault. I wanted him to be an awful person, but it just wasn't the case. Yes, he deserves the blame for using my low self esteem to his advantage, but I allowed it. I showed him what I was willing to put up with.

 

I have read enough of Phoe'a threads to see that she has low self esteem, and I say this as a person who is still trying to build up my shattered self esteem. I know what it's like to have the blinders on, and I feel for Phoe. The world looks so different when you don't believe you are good enough, and you let people treat you badly. You don't even realize it yourself until you are out of the relationship. I fear this relationship will continue down this path, but it will be up to Phoe to fight for her self worth. Unfortunately, when these situations go on long enough, it becomes harder to dig your way out when they go down in flames.

[sooshi]

Exactly what BC1980 said.

[TAV]

Iadvantage.

 

I'm worried for you; I hope you're at least considering the possibility that this guy isn't actually good to you. Certainly not good enough. He's telling the truth when he tells you that, at least. And that you don't agree with him about that is actually a problem: He will keep pushing as much as he can. I am so glad that you've refused to marry him, but that's not enough pushing back, really. Don't let him get away with pretending you're equally in the wrong when actually, you aren't.

 

I think we all worry for her. It's like watching a train crash waiting to happen. But she has to make up her own mind and be ready to cut ties with him. I know from experience how hard it is. I just hope all the backing she gets here will make her stronger when dealing with this man. Makes her feel that she is not in the wrong despite him making her believe that she is.

 

I certainly wish I had a forum like this guiding me 20 years ago

 

And gaius, do read up about narcissists and psychopaths and you will see that they actually start out like the most charming men (or women) on the planet. I am not very religious but I believe that every human being is supposed to treat the other person as well as he/she would like to be treated themselves. So we all have a responsibility there. You are not allowed to treat others like crap just because they let you.

[Iguanna]

 

Oh young grasshopper, you have much to learn.

 

You don't believe there are men (and women) who play it nice and sweet to start with? How many posts have you seen where the guy (or gal) ended up being a physical abuser, or a cheater, or an emotional abuser / master manipulator that started out with "In the beginning s/he was never like that!"

 

The good boyfriend / girlfriend is literally textbook manipulator and / or abuser behavior. All I have read about since is jabs at her already low self esteem and efforts to distort her reality and confuse her further.

 

I don't agree with that. I believe that abusers and manipulators are like that from the beginning, we just choose to ignore the signs cause we don't want to admit we failed finding a good partner once more or cause we think we will make them change in time. Being abusive is a sickness and it can't be hidden.

[Iguanna]

Oh, Phoe. I really don't know what to say.

 

I just really hope that someday you'll meet someone who will treat you well and whom you can have a drama-free R with, rather than dealing with all of this crap at 4(?) months.

 

And I bet that she won't be happy without the drama. Drama feeds some people's insecurities big time. When things are going too well we start doubting ourselves cause we don't believe we deserve things going so well, so we sabotage our relationship and cause fights just to prove to ourselves that we were right from the start: we are not too good to have too perfect relationships.

[gaius]

 

Oh young grasshopper, you have much to learn.

 

You don't believe there are men (and women) who play it nice and sweet to start with? How many posts have you seen where the guy (or gal) ended up being a physical abuser, or a cheater, or an emotional abuser / master manipulator that started out with "In the beginning s/he was never like that!"

 

The good boyfriend / girlfriend is literally textbook manipulator and / or abuser behavior. All I have read about since is jabs at her already low self esteem and efforts to distort her reality and confuse her further.

Nothing you can teach me unfortunately. You know what a master manipulator is? A guy who figures out what behavior a woman likes and then performs that behavior. You've got all these people running around diagnosing their ex's with this mental condition or that mental condition because they don't want to take an honest look at themselves and admit they liked it. And might have contributed to it.

 

There are a bazillion guys in California Phoe could be dating. She got mobbed with mails when she was on OLD briefly. But she picked this guy for a reason. And she's hung up on him for a reason. And not because of some distant memory of how he used to be either.

[BC1980]

Nothing you can teach me unfortunately. You know what a master manipulator is? A guy who figures out what behavior a woman likes and then performs that behavior. You've got all these people running around diagnosing their ex's with this mental condition or that mental condition because they don't want to take an honest look at themselves and admit they liked it. And might have contributed to it.

 

There are a bazillion guys in California Phoe could be dating. She got mobbed with mails when she was on OLD briefly. But she picked this guy for a reason. And she's hung up on him for a reason. And not because of some distant memory of how he used to be either.

 

I agree. If you want to know what your issues are, look no further than your partner. I'd love for Phoe to ditch this guy, but I don't think she's ready. I'm sure she feels ganged up on, but you often have to be blunt to be kind to someone. Phoe, we are telling you the truth because you deserve a lot better.

[BC1980]

I don't agree with that. I believe that abusers and manipulators are like that from the beginning, we just choose to ignore the signs cause we don't want to admit we failed finding a good partner once more or cause we think we will make them change in time. Being abusive is a sickness and it can't be hidden.

 

I ignored so many red flags. Just blatant things that should have had me running. However, I saw what I wanted to see. When it ended, everyone was so shocked, and I was for awhile too. As time went on, I had to admit that had shown me exactly who he was over the years. I was the one who choose not to listen.

 

I think it pretty much always takes two to tango in these dysfunctional dynamics. Most of the time, people cannot hide who they truly are. They will show you, and, once you see it, it's up to you to act.

[somedude81]

I agree. If you want to know what your issues are, look no further than your partner. I'd love for Phoe to ditch this guy, but I don't think she's ready. I'm sure she feels ganged up on, but you often have to be blunt to be kind to someone. Phoe, we are telling you the truth because you deserve a lot better.

I really want Phoe to date different guys and to see how other men will treat her.

 

I'd gladly offer her my services and give her a 30% discount for being a LS member.

 

She just jumped into an insta-relationship with this guy. One date and she was already committed.

[Keenly]

I really want Phoe to date different guys and to see how other men will treat her.

 

I'd gladly offer her my services and give her a 30% discount for being a LS member.

 

She just jumped into an insta-relationship with this guy. One date and she was already committed.

 

You and I both would have done the same thing.

[sarbunoemi]

I am so sorry, Phoe for your situation You, as a lovely lady, deserve better than him. I have a feeling that he's cheating on you and by that, he forces you to date other men so he can lessen his guilt. He knows you are loyal, lovely girlfriend and takes advantage for that.

My dear, you deserve someone who cherishes you, not someone who makes you unhappy and forces you to do things past your boundaries.

You did nothing wrong, be proud of you for giving your best in this relationship.

It's hard, but walking away would be a better option rather than waiting for him to initiate it.

[somedude81]

You and I both would have done the same thing.

What do you mean Keenly?

[contact1]

Phoe, I'm hoping this will open your eyes up a bit, and for you to see that the issues you are trying sweep under the rug are not minor. Just look at your posting history in the 4 months you have been with this man, and constant feeling that somehow you are not good enough and the fault is somehow falling on you.

 

After a few days he texts me asking if I would move in with him and his mom where he lives now. I immediately vetoed the idea. He says OK but that he wants a different apartment, that he's worried about my safety and wants us to live in a gated complex. While apartment searching, once again, he asks if there isn't a way to make moving in with his mom work.

 

 

He finally found one that fit all of his requirements ( I personally didn't care where I lived). We apply and put down the holding deposit. It's officially ours. Not an hour later he tells me he's not comfortable with us living in an apartment together while he doesn't have a big savings built up. He wants to have $5000 in savings as a cushion just in case, and really wants to wait until then to move out of his current house.

 

That caused a HUGE fight. I felt very led on that we went through this whole process, he showed me around the apartment we would live in, imagined where the furniture would go, put down the deposit and made me truly feel like this is where we were going to live just to have him rip the rug out from under me

 

Yesterday he told me that him and his mom are moving into a new house, and that he'd like me to move in with him. We got in a fight about it. This is multiple times now that he's requested I move in with him and his mom.

 

He got irritated at me and told me this - "It says a lot about you that you won't even try." - that really upset me.

 

Now here we are only a few weeks later fighting about it again. And when I told him that his indecisiveness is a big problem for me in feeling comfortable living with him at all, he says I can blame him all I want but that he's not the only one at fault.

 

I don't understand what I've done

 

Says that the honest truth is that he needs me to take this step in the dark for him. He says it's selfish but that he needs me to do that. I'm not sure how I'm reading that... it sounds like an implication that I need to prove myself? Like he doesn't trust that I'm on board with him?

 

I wholeheartedly believe that he is unaware that his behavior seems manipulative. It's not his intention, he just really wants me to get excited about living with him, and is disappointed when I'm not.

 

I feel like I do these things for him, spoil him and see him often, because when I CAN'T do those things, he seems unhappy.

 

If I have a lot of things to do, he seems dejected and somewhat resentful. Because somehow he is able to get errands and other things done more efficiently, so he has free time with me. I suck at getting my errands and responsibilities done with quickly, and if I have a day off from work I might spend the whole day taking care of those things, instead of seeing him. Then I may only see him for an hour, and when I have to leave to go home and sleep or head to work again, he's unhappy.

 

I feel like I'm not doing enough for him

 

Last night he said something that he has never said before.

 

I was feeling a bit tired and sick after a very long day and he told me I look like ****

 

I don't know what to do anymore.

 

I try very hard to make him happy, but sometimes I just can't due to circumstances out of my control.

 

My boyfriend gets home around the time the show starts so I text him saying "Hey babe, our show is on!" so he can get on skype and we can watch it together. He calls me on the phone and seems annoyed, asking "Why are you watching it without me?? I thought you were coming over!" I say "My truck's in the shop, remember?".

 

It's all downhill from here. He wants me to borrow a car from my parents to come see him. Or have him come pick me up and then drop me off. I really don't want him to have to come all the way and get me, just to have to drive me back when he's exhausted from work later, not to mention I have a pretty bad headache anyway.

 

At this point he shuts down skype without any warning. 10 minutes later I get a message saying how he has no patience for my logic today and he waited all day to see me and now I'm just making lame excuses for why I can't see him and if I really wanted to see him I would make it happen, and that I can make lame excuses all I want but he's not buying it.

 

I'm just so stressed and at a loss of what to do. I didn't think I made excuses. I had a handful of legitimate problems that made seeing him tonight just really difficult. ONE night where I could not see him, and it was easiest for everyone if I just stayed home and skyped. But he thinks I'm making excuses (my truck is in the shop!!) and he is now upset with me.

 

What can I do? What can I say?

 

I just worry that if I stop doing things for him, he's gonna think "Why did she stop doing nice things for me? What gives? What a crappy girlfriend I've got" - but in reality, I'm being a bit of a crappy girlfriend already. I've gotta change something if I want to make him happy.

 

I try to do a lot, but I think I'm doing the wrong things. My attempts to make him happy are all being gone about in the wrong manner. I don't see him becoming abusive, but I could see him getting bored/tired of me and dumping me.

 

I'd be torn up if he left me, and I want to do everything I can to fight for him, to be a wonderful girlfriend and make him happy, but if I still continue to fail, I wouldn't blame him for moving on

 

He messaged me and for some inexplicable reason, he seems to think this all has to do with video games.

 

I had offhandedly mentioned to him that my xbox had been acting up for 3 days, and that I was baffled about what was up with it, and that THAT was why I needed to reprogram my cable box.

 

Says that I am putting my xbox and video games before him and my priorities are very wrong.

 

Tonight my boyfriend made a comment that I did not appreciate, and I told him word for word, "I don't appreciate that you said XYZ, it made me feel bad" - which didn't go well. He responded that I took his comment up the ass and I shouldn't have, and of course, this response from him was not appreciated either.

 

As long as I'm not making things worse with being direct in communication. That's what I was most concerned about, that my way of communicating is not productive.

 

He made me VERY uncomfortable a few days, getting very insistent that I play out a fantasy for him. A fantasy involving me hooking up with another guy. I am not okay with this. So then he wanted me to agree to at least flirt with other men. Once again I wasn't okay with this. I am loyal. This was all in the middle of me giving him a blowjob, and after refusing, he went completely soft. I felt very upset... that I wasn't good enough to keep him hard without resorting to the fantasy that I'm uncomfortable with.

 

And then there's the distance... not texting or calling. Suddenly deciding he wants to go out to a bar, disappearing off skype for no apparent reason.

 

Today we had a very disheartening conversation where he asked me (for probably the 4th time since we got together) whether I have hooked up with any of my coworkers and said PLEASE be honest I won't get mad at you

 

He doesn't trust me. He swears up and down that he does. I think he doesn't even realize that he really doesn't...

 

Earlier, after I got out of my bubble bath, I facebooked him saying I'd gotten out of the bath. For whatever STUPID reason, facebook said the message was sent from a town two towns over. I was at home. wtf facebook. So he asks where I am, I say "In my bedroom". He says "No, your gps says you're 2 towns over"

 

What boggles me about the end of this relationship is that he's struggling with trusting me, yet has a fetish about me hooking up with another man. Those 2 things totally counteract each other. It is massively illogical.

 

We sat in my truck and talked.

 

From what I gather, he was testing me. He said he trusts me, and just needed to ask those questions over and over knowing that the answer wasn't gonna change, but kinda like what a previous poster said, wanted to "Sherlock" his way into making sure I had never done anything. And I guess, by giving me PERMISSION to hook up with someone else and saying that he WANTED it, by me continually refusing he knew I was really truly loyal.

 

It was a test. He totally and completely mind****ed me for a TEST.

 

That it's just some silly fantasy that's fun to talk about but that he'd never want to do it and that I'm wife material, that he'd never make the woman he wants to marry do something like that, and that it's unfair of him to even TALK like that when it makes me uncomfortable.

 

It was a test. He totally and completely mind****ed me for a TEST.

 

That it's just some silly fantasy that's fun to talk about

 

he was testing me

 

just some silly fantasy

 

testing

 

fantasy

 

Which is it?

[hoping2heal]

I don't agree with that. I believe that abusers and manipulators are like that from the beginning, we just choose to ignore the signs cause we don't want to admit we failed finding a good partner once more or cause we think we will make them change in time. Being abusive is a sickness and it can't be hidden.

 

I think abusers and manipulators can be like what you're describing from the start but I think it's more common that they start out playing it sweet. Then the little red flags start popping out, but the choosing to ignore comes into play. "Nobody is perfect" "Well, it just happened once and s/he was never like that before" "it's probably a one off". These people get you "hooked" on them for a reason, before they just become utterly awful.

 

I suppose it depends on what the abuser or manipulator picks up on as the proper place to start. Some might only respond to instant mistreatment. Some, might need some coaxing down the rabbit hole. The more people these type of people go through, the more they learn and the better they will become at it.

 

I disagree that abuse can't be hidden. I think it can't be hidden forever naturally. It can be disguised long enough to put your hooks into someone.

Edited April 18, 2014 by hoping2heal

[Keenly]

What do you mean Keenly?

 

A nice girl comes along, and we are both lonely, we're gonna Jump into that faster than Michael Phelps.

 

Especially if she is really into us.

[Iguanna]

I think abusers and manipulators can be like what you're describing from the start but I think it's more common that they start out playing it sweet.

 

What you say indicates that abusers CHOOSE to be like this, which in my opinion they don't. They don't search like maniacs for their next victim to torture and have a plan for it. Being an abuser is a sickness and it's the way of mentality this person have, it's how he/she is, they can't hide it or cover it and present it whenever they want. An alcoholic will show signs whether they like it or not. A person who can't control their nerves, their violence, they can't hide it. In this case, Phoe was there seeing all the signs one by one by one, but she chose to ignore them for various reasons. This relationship will come to an end sooner or later, but as I have said before, people like Phoe need to reach bottom in order to wake up and rise to the surface. I'm like this too. I've been there many times. I thought that if I would do the right things, if I'd give my all, if I would accept every bad thing, then the other person would eventually see what a great person I am and the sacrifices I'm making and he would change magically to this wonderful person. Little I knew. Abuse is a sickness. It can't be stopped, it can't be changed that easily, it can't be hidden, unless the abuser gets help.

[Salvatore85]

Aww man that sucks. Phoe you're a kick ass chick, give out great advice and you're easy on the eyes as well. Dudes an idiot, you will land on your feet and find someone way better.

[Simon Phoenix]

I agree with everyone that this situation is just awful, but it's clear to me that Phoe is not ready or willing to listen right now. She's going to keep sitting at the blackjack table despite losing chips in the hope that she'll go on a run of blackjacks. I hope she gets up from the table eventually, but it's not going to be very soon I'm afraid. The lack of self-esteem and boundaries are just too great right now.

[tlegend]

I think it's hilarous you guys get upset if someone doesn't listen to your advice.

 

Keep in mind, advice is simply that. Ultimately, she's going to do what she wants to do.

 

Stop jumping all over her simply because it's not what you would do.

[KatZee]

I struggle to believe that he would actually want to spend his life with me. The concept that any one person would tolerate my quirks on a daily basis and not want to run away astounds me.

 

I struggle to understand this too. Not because you're not a great person, but because he seems to running warp speed to be legally bound to you.

 

To me, this is a huge red flag. I haven't read any of the back stories about this guy but apparently he's been douchey enough for everyone here to tell you to get the hell out.

 

I want to know what his motives are for being legally bound immediately. If he was so in love and honest with intentions and feelings for you, what's the rush?