On the ledge in my A and ?

[loveandsorrow]

If it is causing you so much continual strife just end it.

 

Hi Real,

 

I wish it were that easy. If it were so, many here on LS would not be here either learning from others (as i came to seek), trying to see through the web of an A or dealing with the fatal emotional wounds of DD or ending an A not by choice.

 

Getting entangled in an A is far more complex than just a yes / no answer as you know. It's like a complex emotional state, we all want to do one thing but realize there is no easy way out. I can say I never saw the complexity coming 1.5 years ago. I just seemed like joy and fun at the moment. Never did i see it asking me for more than what I could give. That's what happens correct?

[loveandsorrow]

Chasing the dream? I think thats your problem right there-you have unrealistic expectations of any relationship-you expect clear sailing and for it to be just as you want it- relationships take two-you appear to be quite selfish- maybe get some IC so that you can work on you and if you are a better partner you may find a more satisfying relationship-until then- drop the A and come clean to your wife- in short, man up- you expect so much from the women in your life but almost nothing from yourself- thats a little upside down-

 

HI GS,

 

Yes you are correct that I do expect more from my w and mow and as someone said here, when it comes to dealing with an AP, there is no honor among thieves. I can't expect too much because how we started yet we both probably want a real LTR that can't happen due to our current circumstances and mow's state.

 

I did try to slowly drift but because mow and i are coworkers its very difficult. if we were not, i can say that i probably would have tried harder but since we see each other, it would make it torture to see each other at work mingling with other staff.

 

The mystic of an A is that it can stay controlled, small and only ask for so little but that's not true. it seems to grow wtih time and become more demanding. to the point that when i think back, i thought of all the cons to mow and how it would never work LTR. AS time has passed, those cons have become diluted with the emotional intoxication of being in the A.

[loveandsorrow]

What? You kind of want to move on (well since you're having an A) you don't love your wife, you want a life with the OW yet you won't let go of your wife because you don't want to hurt her or let her heal and move on without you, and be with someone else?

 

This is such selfish and self serving thinking. If you truly care about your wife, you'd divorce her and allow her to begin her grieving process now so she can find and fall in love with a decent and loving man who will only want her and not cheat on her.

 

Sorry let me clarify,

 

What i meant is that its very difficult to cope with losing either one. my w who i've been married to for 15+ years, mother of 3 young kids who loves her h as like a cold partner. she's semi warm but really has too much invested in her own siblings and really doesn't have the makeup to care as much as mow does.

 

then comes mow, who loves, cares and wants me more than anything. she can't sleep at night at times and i'm sure would be willing to leave her h and take her 2 kids with her if i begged it to do it. she's ready. i'm not. i cry thinking that my kids would never forgive me knowing their mother would paint a picture of me. then again, my w isn't exactly forthcoming her own shortcomings to others so i would get the bad apple regardless.

 

in the end. mow, offers the gaps my w can't fill emotionally but mow demands more of my time and energy. i love how i can run off with mow on a day off or spend time at night together intimately. i also fear it won't last if we had an relationship since she's 15+ years younger than i and would eventually tire like has with her h now.

 

the a started off with so much reward and little investment. then the payment came in terms of time and emotional investment. this is where living in two worlds becomes light walking a tight rope.

[loveandsorrow]

You have got yourself in limbo and unable to make a decision, much like my MM - he is just throwing himself into work and pretending it will all go away. We are all miserable I am sure. Nothing stays the same, love has to grow and thrive, it cannot be suppressed. In the end you have to make a decision and one would be to be honest with your BS before someone does it for you.

 

Basically you have intimacy with your OW that you have probably lost with your BS.

 

My mm's adult kids totally hate me and that is something that has made our situation intolerable and upsets him greatly. But what is the choice, to stay in a fake marriage where you are not happy or spend the rest of your life wondering what if?

 

Hi forbidden,

 

Wow....thank you and your last statement just shook me to my core.

 

that's what i keep thinking! i can spend the rest of my days with a w who doesn't really care and be ok with mediocre or i can blossom and flourish with mow.

 

 

ok, so how long have you and your mm been together? when did you tell his adult kids? how long before they accept you?

 

and why is your mm trying to hide from all this?

[loveandsorrow]

A lot of mental gymnastics by both parties that can be extremely frustrating/draining, but at the same time realizing it a necessity to keep things from spiraling out of control. That is how we did it for 4-1/2 years up until three weeks ago. From reading here and talking to others it generally has three outcomes: 1. One party gets tired of the roller coaster and the A just fizzles out. 2. It goes on indefinitely as an accepted part of the A. 3. Finally cross the line into a full blown R.

 

3 weeks ago we started slipping into No. 3 and neither of us has tried to stop it. It is now an elephant in the room that I believe we are both too scared to address yet because it goes against what we had planned for the A since the beginning.

 

Real,

 

Thank you for this honesty.

 

Ok, wo what do you mean by the bold? and how has it "slipped" into a full blown A?

 

I know that with mow and I, its a full blown emotional A. Talk everyday, literally, text all the time, at work see each other, on weekends eveyr other, spend intimate time in a private location, talk about our spouses, our lives, our future (is this future faking?) and referring to each other as the true love one and only.

 

please explain and so now you have ended your a or has the a just been put on hold? who decided and how can you expect the A not to develop into a full blown R? 4.5 years is impressive! what's the secret?

[Realist3]

Hi Real,

 

I wish it were that easy. If it were so, many here on LS would not be here either learning from others (as i came to seek), trying to see through the web of an A or dealing with the fatal emotional wounds of DD or ending an A not by choice.

 

Getting entangled in an A is far more complex than just a yes / no answer as you know. It's like a complex emotional state, we all want to do one thing but realize there is no easy way out. I can say I never saw the complexity coming 1.5 years ago. I just seemed like joy and fun at the moment. Never did i see it asking me for more than what I could give. That's what happens correct?

 

In some cases, yes that is what happens. Yes, it is complex.

 

"Getting entangled" was your choice. You came here asking questions before it really got involved about how it will end. You were given horror stories, told what would happen, and decided to go ahead anyway. No problem.

 

 

Never did i see it asking me for more than what I could give.

 

A close friend of mine that had been in a LTA eventually divorcing her H to marry OM gave me a very good warning when my A started. "What are you going to do when either or both of you want more than what the A can provide? It will be coming eventually." Given that bit of advice I made sure we set out boundaries of where the relationship could never go beyond early on.

 

Seems to me you have some decisions to make. You obviously want to remain a cake eater, but you allowed your MW to get in too deep. You may or may not be able to walk that back. A simple statement like, "We are in too far.", seems pretty reasonable. Exhibit some sort of control over the situation.

 

 

The fact that you started an EA with another woman during all of this shows me that you aren't anywhere close to resolving the issues you have. I'm not suggesting those issues can be fixed. You seem more like a horny, naive guy who is in the full throws of a mid-life crisis who is willing to go wherever the wind takes him.

[Betterthanthis13]

hi btt

 

for Someone who posts on other threads "good people have affairs" I'm confused on what you just said?<

 

are "good people" referring to yourself and others who may have had an affair while with you?

 

I'm caught up in the A web just as those you have known or may come to know. I didn't heed the words of warning and now I'm so entrenched im like a ship lost at sea.

 

while having the plesures of two women may seem trivial to some, it comes with a dear price. I thought I could be like others here who were or are in successful As and doing quite well. I chased the dream others are living and now I find its a massive web.

 

I think you may have me confused with someone else. I believe last summer I gave my opinion on the book "When Good People Have Affairs" but that's about it as far as that topic goes. I don't think there are "good" people or "bad" people. People are just people that make choices in life. If the choices you are making are causing you distress and anxiety, and harming the people around you, it may be time to reevaluate some of your choices.

 

If you want to have multiple simultaneous romantic relationships, then I am all for it! Go right ahead. But you should definitely consider being single, or an open marriage/ polyamorous relationship instead of a traditional one. Then you could stop lying to everyone and get off of the "ship lost at sea"- (wasn't it a "runaway train" last time?)

 

It's not the fact that you want to have several girlfriends at the same time that is problematic. It's all the lying. Stop lying and find some peace for yourself.

 

Sure, your wife will probably not be thrilled to go through a divorce. Who ever is? People get through it. People successfully co-parent and are civil to their ex's. Doesn't your wife deserve to know the truth so she can move on and find someone who will be faithful to her if that is what she wants? You ain't it. You are not a monogamous kind of guy so stop lying to all these women and pretending that you can be faithful.

 

Right now you are actively hurting the people you profess to love. Why do you want to do that?

[loveandsorrow]

You've muddied the waters because for some reason you think you are in a position to describe people around you as you see them (passive, compartamentalizing, needy). Clearly you are not very convincing in your assessment of people. Also remember people are like this in relation to others.

 

Is your OW needy with her husband? Or just with you? She has an addictive disorder? Or are you both clinging to a sinking ship (hers metaphorically I hope, as I understand she is on a cruise)

 

You should focus on what you are feeling, not what personality type you think you are.

What are your feelings for your wife?

Now what are your feelings for your kids?

Now what are your feelings for your AP?

What are your moral beliefs about ending a marriage for an AP?

Are you afraid you will end up with nothing? Does that scare you?

 

Your kids are your kids. They will love you regardless.

 

WHAT do you VALUE MOST in your LIFE: right now?

Make a list of 10 things you value. Now knock one off at a time those items that, yes, you value them, but you do value the others more.

 

When you get to the last one (or two - some people cannot get to one) you will know what to do.

 

Don't get all bogged down in psychological types, color charts of other people's personalities, and the "what if's" of your kids.

 

You and only you can make yourself happy. At the moment you are CLEARLY NOT DOING THIS regardless of fooling yourself about the benefits of being in 2 relationships.

 

Hi Felini,

 

You just struck a needle inside my heart after reading this. I don't know if i can handle at the moment, the answers to those questions. those questions force a 1 or nothing decision and i know what its telling me.

 

Now that i had a few moments to think about this, why does an A have to demand a decision? why can't it stay in the state of where it was?

 

I need to come back and answer these. These are very deep questions

[Realist3]

Real,

 

Thank you for this honesty.

 

Ok, wo what do you mean by the bold? and how has it "slipped" into a full blown A?

 

It has been a full blown A since it started. I said full blown R, as in out in the open relationship.

 

The only future either of us have ever talked about was tomorrow, next week, or maybe the week after that. We have recently started discussing next year.

 

Bottom line is that the way I see it we have both come to a point where we know we would be happier and our kids would be happier if we were a formal couple. The trauma from the divorces, the social fallout, and all that goes along with that would fade in time.

 

BUT all of that flies against what we agreed it would be. It is one thing to think about those things, and quite another to actually do them. That is where the scared part comes in. Except for ourselves there is no immediate need to change a thing. It is down to a science. We just want more. <---Selfish.

 

 

 

I know that with mow and I, its a full blown emotional A. Talk everyday, literally, text all the time, at work see each other, on weekends eveyr other, spend intimate time in a private location, talk about our spouses, our lives, our future (is this future faking?) and referring to each other as the true love one and only.

 

We talk every day all day, but rarely get into that type of smarmy 'true love' crap.

 

please explain and so now you have ended your a or has the a just been put on hold? who decided and how can you expect the A not to develop into a full blown R? 4.5 years is impressive! what's the secret?[/QUOte]

 

 

You keep asking that question. There is no secret, just two people on the same page.

[Realist3]

Hi Felini,

 

You just struck a needle inside my heart after reading this. I don't know if i can handle at the moment, the answers to those questions. those questions force a 1 or nothing decision and i know what its telling me.

 

Now that i had a few moments to think about this, why does an A have to demand a decision? why can't it stay in the state of where it was?

 

I need to come back and answer these. These are very deep questions

 

 

They certainly are deep questions. But your MO is to never answer them.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Realist3

[forbidden_love]

Hi forbidden,

 

Wow....thank you and your last statement just shook me to my core.

 

that's what i keep thinking! i can spend the rest of my days with a w who doesn't really care and be ok with mediocre or i can blossom and flourish with mow.

 

 

ok, so how long have you and your mm been together? when did you tell his adult kids? how long before they accept you?

 

and why is your mm trying to hide from all this?

 

Six years and it has been the most traumatic time of my life. At the moment, there is a lot of head burying going on. I think his adult kids will always hate me and that is something he believes will not change. However if you are not happy, as I told him, who is going to be? His adult kids have their own lives. But he went low contact with me last month and it was truly devastating. All the toing and froing due to guilt. Not long ago he said that none of us were ever going to be happy and he has accepted that fate that is what I cannot understand. He is a coward. and my life is in tatters. The thing is we have been in constant contact for all that time so he hasn't really been married so what, if he chooses to do nothing, is he actually going back to?

[fellini]

Those questions do not force a 1 or nothing, they might produce other results. They are actually supposed to help you to clarify what you need to do, not what you want.

 

An A does not require a decision, in fact, that is precisely what an A is: a WS who refuses to make a decision. But LandS, every day you sit on the fence and do not address your core values you are allowing that other people will make this decision for you, and then you will might find out you do not end up with what you truly want.

 

You can continue in your multiple relationships as long as you want, but you at some point you are going to have to make a decision because, in fact, the longer you stay with two women the more you are clouding your judgement.

(Personally I believe you have already made your decision, but you simply do not want to admit it deep down. I do believe you think you are truly confused. But I think there are simple questions (like the ones above, which will show your confusion is simply from not thinking straight, or wanting to. You will know this simply when you ask yourself about the 1000s of little decisions you have been making through all these years.

 

Good luck with it. It will explode, and I suggest you try to minimize the collateral damage to yourself, your kids, and the SO's you are holding in limbo with you.

 

Oh, and take a look at womensinfidelity.com, an article about the 4 stages of LIMBO. Never mind Langley talks about women, what she says is equally true of men. Worth a read.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Felini,

 

You just struck a needle inside my heart after reading this. I don't know if i can handle at the moment, the answers to those questions. those questions force a 1 or nothing decision and i know what its telling me.

 

Now that i had a few moments to think about this, why does an A have to demand a decision? why can't it stay in the state of where it was?

 

I need to come back and answer these. These are very deep questions

[Snipercatt]

Look, L&S, it takes courage to live boldly with authenticity.

 

You say it isn't easy to end it with OW, or with MOW. That may be true, but with grit and determination you can live authentically. Truly, us humans have the capacity to get through all myriad of "feelings" and then live according to our personal values.

 

You can begin by disclosing to MOW that you want to be in R with her AND with your W. You can disclose to your wife that you wish to be in R with her and with MOW. That is what you say you want and that is how you are living, at the moment. Following disclosure you will find out if that is what MOW and W want and move forward. Disclosure ends the conflict and consternation.

 

Pay attention to what Realist posts to you. Realist is living authentically as regards this subject.

[loveandsorrow]

Look, L&S, it takes courage to live boldly with authenticity.

 

You say it isn't easy to end it with OW, or with MOW. That may be true, but with grit and determination you can live authentically. Truly, us humans have the capacity to get through all myriad of "feelings" and then live according to our personal values.

 

You can begin by disclosing to MOW that you want to be in R with her AND with your W. You can disclose to your wife that you wish to be in R with her and with MOW. That is what you say you want and that is how you are living, at the moment. Following disclosure you will find out if that is what MOW and W want and move forward. Disclosure ends the conflict and consternation.

 

Pay attention to what Realist posts to you. Realist is living authentically as regards this subject.

 

Hi Sniper,

 

Disclosure almost surely means fallout. Social. Family. Kids. Job. That's too much to risk imo however, i am not sure that's why realist has done? He can clarify, but i don't think he means he's out in the open with his AP as in his W and her H both know and see realist and his AP together.

 

I took realists comments as they are in the open away from where they would be seen by others they know. Kind of like how mow and i are when we spend a night 50 miles away from home. we can be more "open" but not as in walking around our local town in full view of our friends and family.

 

I could be wrong....let him speak to it or if you know more, please share!

 

As for having to come forward, i almost feel like my relationship with my w has changed and i don't see her the same as i used to. She's got her own family as a priority and at times i feel like she's just riding along with me as i am the breadwinner of the home and father of our kids. i do love her, however i see how her lack of intimate relationship with me has been an internal knife and that's just the way she is. she's not going to change. her parents were that way. mow has that kind of feel too! that's why i often feel conflicted because mow is not into pda but she is def more intimate. When i say intimate, i mean verbally, physically (non sx), etc.

[loveandsorrow]

Those questions do not force a 1 or nothing, they might produce other results. They are actually supposed to help you to clarify what you need to do, not what you want.

 

An A does not require a decision, in fact, that is precisely what an A is: a WS who refuses to make a decision. But LandS, every day you sit on the fence and do not address your core values you are allowing that other people will make this decision for you, and then you will might find out you do not end up with what you truly want.

 

You can continue in your multiple relationships as long as you want, but you at some point you are going to have to make a decision because, in fact, the longer you stay with two women the more you are clouding your judgement.

(Personally I believe you have already made your decision, but you simply do not want to admit it deep down. I do believe you think you are truly confused. But I think there are simple questions (like the ones above, which will show your confusion is simply from not thinking straight, or wanting to. You will know this simply when you ask yourself about the 1000s of little decisions you have been making through all these years.

 

Good luck with it. It will explode, and I suggest you try to minimize the collateral damage to yourself, your kids, and the SO's you are holding in limbo with you.

 

Oh, and take a look at womensinfidelity.com, an article about the 4 stages of LIMBO. Never mind Langley talks about women, what she says is equally true of men. Worth a read.

 

Hi Felini,

 

Ok, i will follow up on the reading, thank you for the referral.

 

As for this is going to explode, i hope not! i don't like that mow and i work at the same place. if we didn't, it might be easier but i can't just quit, im the breadwinner i my home and at mid 40's, not as easy to locate employment with my pay vs mow is in her 30's and can easily move on. i won't ask her to however if we were not in the same place of work, it might be much easier to slowly move away, if that was an option.

 

i'm being totally honest here......when i first got engulfed in this A, i didn't respect it and i thought i could keep it at bay as an baby A. That didn't happen and as time went on, the more it wanted and i recall thinking back about mow and all the "cons" to her. The "cons" were enough in my mind where i felt it was only a quick A and not much more. I couldn't see myself with mow however time clouded my logic and mow has accepted me through several deep dark secrets that have come to light. that weighs on me as i assumed once she found out about a few secrets i had, it would be over. not the case. not at all!

 

one thing i keep thinking about what you said earlier.....that if mow is addicted to the A, or me, whichever one is true, her addictive personality isn't just with the A or me. it manifests itself elsewhere. I can't help but recall texts to her H and i can see how she does the same with him. texting him randomly jjust to get a response as well as other friend and family she has.

 

As i'm thinking about this addictive style, i am starting to feel numb...as the reality is..its not me she's addicted to...its the A....and she's addicted to a lot of other things. our A is just one of them. this has weighed on me as it may be the splash of cold water i've been dreading. Wake up.....its not you she wants....its wanting that she wants.

 

and so, i feel the emotional curtain call as inevitable.

[loveandsorrow]

Six years and it has been the most traumatic time of my life. At the moment, there is a lot of head burying going on. I think his adult kids will always hate me and that is something he believes will not change. However if you are not happy, as I told him, who is going to be? His adult kids have their own lives. But he went low contact with me last month and it was truly devastating. All the toing and froing due to guilt. Not long ago he said that none of us were ever going to be happy and he has accepted that fate that is what I cannot understand. He is a coward. and my life is in tatters. The thing is we have been in constant contact for all that time so he hasn't really been married so what, if he chooses to do nothing, is he actually going back to?

 

Forbidden,

 

I am so sorry!!! virtual hugs to you!!! This is as you said, traumatic. Why? so many questions to be asked.

 

So he started low contact because he needs to gather his thoughts and ease his guilt? at your expense?

 

When did this start and how are you coping at the moment?

 

Ok, so are you a mow or ow? and he is a mow or om? clarify please as those relationships could weight heavy on your options

[loveandsorrow]

 

It has been a full blown A since it started. I said full blown R, as in out in the open relationship.

 

Real,

 

What does this mean? are you openly showing affection when you are away from friends, family or are showing affection and your spouses both know?

 

I took it as open meaning your affection is expressed openly where those you do know are not in proximity, as in a dinner date or private setting

[Snipercatt]

L&S, you are being obtuse.

 

According to Realist, his MOW understands his current decision to remain M, and his wife has chosen to remain M to him, knowing he's having an A, asking him to be discreet. Exhibiting affection in his W's presence, or in MOW's H's presence would be cruel, surely you know that isn't what we are talking about to achieve autheticity? Surely.

 

Okay the.

 

Disclosure almost surely means fallout

 

No more than the fallout that is occuring now. Your responsibility is to W and MOW. Display some courage, and honesty, and live on.