trippi1432 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I'll point out one thing about men who are having affairs and claim they have a sexless marriage (especially when they have a decent looking wife who has taken care of herself).....they are having sex with their wives and the OW up to the day they are outed. My exH was having sex with me up to Drop the Bomb day....and there are many threads over in the infidelity thread that say the same. Another point, men will treat their wives better than they ever did when they are getting it on the side (mine didn't, but I know many women who have said they never knew anything was wrong and thought their marriages were stronger than ever when their husband's were cheating). It's counter-intuitive, but it's how they hide the affair. As to how women do it, I have no clue.....I have often wondered how women can morally not be conflicted being the more emotional spouse in the marriage. Although I wish I had cheated on both of my cheating exH's, even though I could feel they deserved it, I have to live with myself and my conscience. There is a very fine line between love and hate, that's not to say that being a step a head of a cheating spouse is cold-hearted, you can still love the person you used to know that was a reciprocal part of the marriage....but you don't have to condone the situation, the affair or the behavior. Being a step ahead is smart....and once someone steps outside of their marriage to play games with people's lives (children, the other spouse, family and even friends....they essentially open themselves up to what they get). My second exH tried to beg his way back several times the first five months or so and even sent messages up to his first anniversary, but he made his bed. I gave him the same thing he gave me for 15 years.....lack of empathy. Cheating spouses always look for the soft place to fall. Being that the OM is married, you know you are going to be the soft place. Be smart. As for seducing the OM's spouse......I find that morally incorrect for revenge purposes. Just because you are hurt doesn't mean hurting an innocent 3rd party to exact revenge indirectly. Best to grab the bull by the horns and go the direct route. Give them both what they want and go after them in legal ways that you have at your hands. The OM's spouse will have enough hurt to deal with just as you, no sense inflicting more pain in the process. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Radu Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I read your whole thread and I'm wondering, don't you have any feelings about this woman? I mean, you once married her, had kids with her, and now you are talking about her like you hate her. Not once have you stated that you love her, that you'll miss her, that you wish things were not like this. Why did you stop having sex? You are the victim here of course, but I can't stop thinking that a sexless marriage has two people at fault and you are on purpose hiding these facts. I can't imagine that my fiance would feel like this towards me after many years of marriage, after having kids, after all the love we have, and that he'll be planning my destruction in a forum with strangers. I'm sorry but this makes me sad. She is to blame for the affair but you are too cold hearted.... He might be like me, in that when there is this kind of thing going on, you go into taking care of business mode and you grieve later. It will probably hit him like a hammer later on. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) So - you addressed her cheating? She minimized the cheating... And now things settle down so you don't throw her out? Is that the way it's playing out? How did she explain her total interest in her OM? The time and energy she's put into flirting with him and planning to meet up with him? And how is it possible that you may simply accept her lies and continue on as if she's not fully invested in mr wonderful? No consequences = more cheating! It just becomes more secretive. Rewarding bad behavior also = looks like she stays married and goes on an extravagant vacay with you. Her ability to state they didn't have sex yet... Sheez, does it really matter? For all INTENTS and purposes - she was way across the line of any healthy boundary! She was a completely willing participant in disrespecting you! Edited March 23, 2014 by beach Link to post Share on other sites
Author VanillaLife Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 I was going to write a post about how it's going to pan out, but I don't know. Of course I still do not trust her. If she just takes the secret further underground I will still find it. And then we will be done. I want to give the option of a genuine chance for us to fix the marriage. If she does not embrace that, she is gone, and she knows it too. I understand there is a lot of resentment on here and I get where that is coming from. Maybe in a year or two I will be in the exact same place. But right now I want to see what, if anything, can be done 3 Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 If you don't have a plan - then expect to be tossed around in the current of betrayal. Get a plan - a boundary - and don't waiver from it. And don't for one second believe she wasn't swapping spit with him. She's got ya...time to find your balls - she may have them stashed in her purse. Link to post Share on other sites
Iguanna Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 So this morning she dropped the guard and I got a look on the iPhone and see them talking about being horny, making good boyfriend/girlfriend and that they have to meet today. I found out that they have not yet had sex Something goes really wrong here.... Link to post Share on other sites
aliveagain Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I was going to write a post about how it's going to pan out, but I don't know. Of course I still do not trust her. If she just takes the secret further underground I will still find it. And then we will be done. I want to give the option of a genuine chance for us to fix the marriage. If she does not embrace that, she is gone, and she knows it too. I understand there is a lot of resentment on here and I get where that is coming from. Maybe in a year or two I will be in the exact same place. But right now I want to see what, if anything, can be done Hopefully you can make things work. You both need to be equally committed to the marriage for it to work. Do not try and fix this without professional counselling because 4 years is a long time without intimacy in a marriage. Have her write out a no contact letter to the O/M that you and approve and send it to him. Notify his wife, his story may be true but it may also be bullsh*t(don't tell your wife when you do, see if it gets back to her). Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 She's played you to her advantage. Do you really think a woman who's not having sex with you won't have it with another man? Especially given the bold statement of being hot by and must meet today? Come on man, she's having sex with him! You know it! And did she offer to NEVER, EVER speak to him or see him EVER again in order to repair the damage she's caused in your marriage? Did she offer to be completely transparent? Offer you phone access and email access and offer to allow you to know her where abouts 24/7? Did she? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Too much drama here, not nearly enough reality. Sadly, all of this smoke and mirrors, gathering evidence, etc will mean little to nothing to the courts. Unless you had a specifically worded prenuptial agreement. Otherwise, the court will focus on division of property (all depending upon where you live and state laws) the wage assessment for support, and who the custodial parent is. Frankly, you are far, far better off to reach an agreement with your wife our of court, unless you like giving your money to attorneys. I promise you will be shocked by how little emphasis the court will place on the infidelity. You will have mountains of recorded evidence, she will say you withdrew affection. They'll see it equal. I am assuming you live in the USA. I do realize you wish to have justice done. You will find little in this process. You will have no control over what she does with the support money you pay her. There is no justice in the divorce process and the court will frown upon you if you push the issue. If there is an issue, you will be directed into meditation through a court-appointed councilor. The best justice is living a good life for yourself afterward. Your plans to blow her (and him) up will not be viewed favorably. Sorry, it's true. The system is designed to send everyone on their way equally. Not justice. Steadfast - It might be smoke and mirrors where you live, which is not North Carolina. And who is not to say that there is no living a good life afterward once all the legalities are done. It's mandatory that you have to still be married to cheating spouses in NC for a year (thank you Bible Belt)...so why not use that time to not only heal...but work on the other court case at hand. Alienation of Affection lawsuits may not happen in your state, but they do happen in this one. Alienation of affections - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 If you live in a sexless marriage - is it you that can't have sex with your wife? You do realize there are many ways of pleasure for each sex without penetration, right? And it seems your wife knows the difference too, with her OM... Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Oh and it turns out the OM is also in a sexless marriage. Much longer than we have been. I really don't care from my perspective but it just makes me wonder how common this might be... Don't you dare feel sorry for him. This is common language amoung MM who cheat. He was bonking your wife and his wife at the same time. But whatever you want to believe it's up to you. Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Don't you dare feel sorry for him. This is common language amoung MM who cheat. He was bonking your wife and his wife at the same time. But whatever you want to believe it's up to you. I hope you aren't feeling sorry for him. If I had a nickel for every man who fed me lines about "My wife doesn't understand me", "My wife is fat", "My wife won't have sex with me", "My wife and I don't have a good marriage", "She's abusive", "She won't work", "She takes advantage of me"....heard them all. I can tell you since my 20's, I laugh at those stupid lines. Sweetie, guess you shouldn't have married her huh? If you don't like the cards dealt..leave. It's that simple, if you need to have a soft place to fall to leave, you weren't much of a man to begin with. That's my take on male cheaters. Men who cheat.....were never much of a man to their wives to begin with. Link to post Share on other sites
Author VanillaLife Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Wow, quite a week folks. It is actually less than seven days now since I found out. We had the confrontation Saturday night. He has now dumped her with a clearly written no contact email. Apparently he's going to work on his marriage. Doesn't make me feel any better, and still pondering our situation. Again I appreciate all the feedback although the tone definitely gets more venomous when I waived from being all out attack on the divorce front to possible healing. But I do understand many of you have been through some painful times, and am under no illusions the same is not in store here. Anyway right now I think we will both be in some form of grievance and wondering if we just agree to mutually call it a day. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Does that mean his wife found out too? What is your wife's plan to repair the damage she has caused you? Link to post Share on other sites
Iguanna Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 It's so common that OPs stop giving details after the confrontation with their wife. He used to be so analytical and answering all questions, giving details etc and now suddenly he's laconic. Starts to get tiring. Link to post Share on other sites
notbroken Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 She cheated. Plain and simple. You may never be 100% sure it was physical but the lies and questions are hard to get over (that proved impossible for me). They rarely admit it was physical unless confronted with direct evidence by the way. She lied about other things, think it is likely she lied about that too? If I had it to do over again, I personally would ask for a timeline with 100% disclosure of anything and everything that had to do with their affair. I would tell her that if you find out she lied about any of it then you are done. Plain and simple. Done. It must be fully disclosed right then and there so you can choose to get over it or not. And that you expect honesty and want love in your marriage. If she can't give that then you don't wish to be married. I personally would disclose the affair to the OM's spouse too. If that ends up driving them together then so be it. They deserve one another. If you want to stay married, you should both seek counselling asap to identify the underlying causes of this. They likely won't go away on their own and this will be just the practice session for the real split. If I knew then what I know now.......... Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Wow, quite a week folks. It is actually less than seven days now since I found out. We had the confrontation Saturday night. He has now dumped her with a clearly written no contact email. I'm not sure where your head is now, or whether your wife is probing for the possibilities of reconciliation, but if so hold off on making any commitments re recon. Your wife may be just opting for Plan B, you, and it's perfectly reasonable for you to take whatever time you need to sort through your feelings on the subject. One "feeling" that ought to have root by now is that you value yourself too much to be anyone's Plan B or back-up plan, and if that's what she has in mind, you'll pass. Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 It's so common that OPs stop giving details after the confrontation with their wife. He used to be so analytical and answering all questions, giving details etc and now suddenly he's laconic. Starts to get tiring. It's been a hell of a week; cut the guy some slack. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I can pretty much guarantee that when push comes to shove your wifes affair partner is not going to leave his wife and kids to be with your wife. She is in for a big shocker and disappointment. Read around this board and you will see that the MM rarely leaves his wife and kids for the OW. He has now dumped her with a clearly written no contact email. Apparently he's going to work on his marriage. Doesn't make me feel any better, and still pondering our situation. Told ya! The MM never had any intention of being with your wife long term. Now she is going through the grieving process of losing her Lover. If she wants to reconcile with you what is she planning to do to make this up to you? Link to post Share on other sites
MsOptimist Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I agree with cutting the OP slack - it's only been a week and those of us that have been in similar situations know what a rollercoaster of emotions there are throughout all of this. As others have said, get into a counselor ASAP, both of you and/or separately. Issues within the marriage before her affair have to be addressed along with the affair itself or it'll likely happen all over again at some point. It also sounds like you weren't 100% happy prior to her affair anyways. Don't believe your wife or the OM right away. For what it's worth, I doubt she was honest about not sleeping with him. Even if that's the truth it seems clear that the intent was there. She needs to prove her loyalty and regain her trust with you. If it were me I'd demand some kind of transparency agreement with her, but to me it becomes a fine line between transparency and lingering doubt being perpetuated by "checking up on" their spouse. You have absolutely every right to want to salvage the marriage before tossing in the towel. I likely would have done the same thing in the beginning if my exH had been receptive to the idea. Let the dust settle from the past week and see where emotions stand and go from there. See if she's serious about being done with the OM and if she's willing to put in the work to salvage the marriage. I would also consult an attorney again to let them know of these new developments and if they have any advice at this point. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Chi townD Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 People aren't being venomous towards you or your decision. I think what people are being venomous towards your acceptance that she told you she hasn't slept with this guy. Dude, she's met up with this guy one too many times NOT to have slept with him. Tell her that if you want the relationship to work, then she'll need to take a polygraph. Because she's proven to you that you have no reason to trust her. A lot of times, the threat of a polygraph will make them usually come clean. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author VanillaLife Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 People aren't being venomous towards you or your decision. I think what people are being venomous towards your acceptance that she told you she hasn't slept with this guy. Dude, she's met up with this guy one too many times NOT to have slept with him. Tell her that if you want the relationship to work, then she'll need to take a polygraph. Because she's proven to you that you have no reason to trust her. A lot of times, the threat of a polygraph will make them usually come clean. Actually my mistake. She did not SAY there had not been sex. I had seen some of their messages and from those interpreted that there had no been sex. And a lot has happened since then, and it turns out that assumption by me was wrong. However she did not lie about that and in fact once I found out to the contrary (which I did by the way when the OM's wife reached out to me and asked to talk) and confronted her about it she was like "well yeah I thought you knew that?". So yes I was a bit stupid on that front. And I confronted her and we had a big blow up but ultimately I think that may have helped it all. In summary at this point it seems the storm has past. I genuinely thought the OM had a set of balls and was going to put up some sort of fight for my wife and that is why I lawyered up early in prep for a battle. However as soon as he was confronted he capitulated to his wife and is now back under her control. It's actually quite hilarious. I saw a battle ahead and armed myself with the best possible weapons I could find, made sure I understood the technology, the battlefield and where the mines are laid out. But when the fight started, turns out all the enemy brought along was a white flag. There is no doubt my wife has been hugely upset by what happened and I think more upset that she lost this new man than she was upset for betraying the marriage. But then I do think the has seen the strength which I have shown and the utter weakness the OM has shown has changed her view quickly, and I now feel she views him more with pity than love, is remorseful for what she did, and is ready to move on. Her only contact with him since our confrontation on the weekend has been a classic No Contact message from him which looked like something his wife wrote after copying it from a website on a google search. The OM's wife has the OM in a cage. There is still every chance we will end up in divorce. Our marriage has been in desperate shape for the past four years and if we just go back to the old ways then this will have all been in vain. Frankly if that happens I am well aware she will just go back to him or someone else. Heck this time I might be happy to stray myself. But my hope is it is a sufficient wake up call to have us both make a real effort at fixing what we have. For that opportunity I am actually grateful. We can start by having some high quality family, respect and reflection time on our vacation, which is suddenly looking less painful This has been one helluva week! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I don't see how the storm has passed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 There is no doubt my wife has been hugely upset by what happened and I think more upset that she lost this new man than she was upset for betraying the marriage. But then I do think the has seen the strength which I have shown and the utter weakness the OM has shown has changed her view quickly, and I now feel she views him more with pity than love, is remorseful for what she did, and is ready to move on. Your wife is probably devastated by what the OM has done to her and is grieving in silence. I doubt very much his wife is the one who has him under lock and key. He probably has hisself under lock and key in order to hold on to his family and stuff. Nothing sobers up the MM like D-day and this is usually the day that the OW (your wife) finds out just how little she meant to him. Most MOW like your wife try to stay with their husbands after they find out they are not going to run off with the MM. They usually stay for security and a lifestyle. If you read the OW section you will view their stories. Link to post Share on other sites
cozycottagelg Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Maybe I've been reading threads here for too long, but this whole thing has stressed me out. Of course they were sleeping together. I really hate to even write that, but nobody meets up at a park and ride to talk...not if there is nothing going on, you can talk in public if you aren't hiding anything. Link to post Share on other sites
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