No intimate conversations ...

[2sunny]

If she showed interest in the guy she was traveling with - why would she tell him she's with you?

 

 

 

MORE than that - why would you be interested in her when she is willing to pay attention to any other man with interest? And since she didn't tell him about her involvement with you - that shows she is willing to exclude her truth if it benefits her position.

 

Lies are lies - even if truth isn't revealed when practicing omission.

Edited March 22, 2014 by 2sunny

[Almond_Joy]

I once called her out on her response about people cheating. My view on the subject is to dump your partner, fix it with your partner, but never betray your partner. So, the feelings I conveyed about that subject were quite absolute and negative. She would respond, "people cheat when they're unhappy" (which anyone from this forum knows, is not always the case). The message to me though was that she condoned cheating should she ... "feel like it" (and it wasn't her fault as she was ... unhappy). Initially it was too early to call her on this statement, but I did later, and she changed her tune as she knew this was a deal breaker for me.

 

See, this is the paranoid me speculating myself into singledom which I've worked hard to not do.

 

However, ignoring some of these oddities is starting to get me pretty anxious and anxiety will take me out.

 

Well if paranoia were to take you ou in this situation, you wouldn't be the only one. This is a glaring red flag. Not only is she intentionally being emotionallly unavailable, she let slip that her moral values on monogamy are not in line with yours. Even if you hadn't been betrayed, this would be cause to do a double take at the person you're with.

 

You said it yourself before, this woman is not a good match for you in your present state. You recognize that you are still struggling with the effects of being cheated on and that you have trust issues. Not only is she not sensitive to that, but her emotional disconnect seems to lead her not to take the commitment of marriage as seriously as she should.

 

I'm tempted to recommend you calling off the marriage completely, but that is a knee-jerk flight reaction. In any case take marriage off the table for the short term. If you're going to stay with her there's some serious work to be done here to make sure you're both on the same page.

[Michelle ma Belle]

Okay, I've been here; dated a few like this and even ended up marrying one in the hopes that it would change. NOT!

 

Unlike you, I did drag my ex hubby to therapy to try and work out issues (and there were many of course) but the not opening up and sharing and letting me know what he thinks and feels was a major obstacle in our life and moving forward. It was ridiculously frustrating for me. I too had many, many moments where I'd look over at my ex and think, "I don't even KNOW you, do I?" And then the flood of regret and fear and desperation and resentment all began to take over.

 

Having said this, I want to leave you with something my therapist left with me when I was on the fence about what direction to take with regards to my marriage;

 

If THIS is as good as it will EVER get, is it good enough?

 

At first I thought this was too simple of a question but it has been the single most important and life-changing question I've EVER asked myself. And I've asked that question of many things in my life not just my relationships.

 

You have a choice to accept her just as she is and stop worrying about it OR do something about it until you're satisfied - something that might ultimately end your relationship in the end.

 

Good luck!

Edited March 22, 2014 by Michelle ma Belle

[Zimber]

You haven't given any solid reason to marry this gal.

Is there any reason to consider marrying her?

Why not just leave the situation "as is" until a time when you know YOU have good reason to change it?

It appears she has given you reasons why she is in control, guarded and secretive - none of which are healthy, open and honest.

IF you are OK living around an emotionally closed off gal - then just continue until it's no longer "enough" for you.

 

All good advice.

To answer your question, ask me again if I'm going through with it in a month. My painfully horrible answer right this second is that the walls of denial are starting to crash and I'm starting to deal with these concerns that plague me. It's hard to accept the potential for loss over something I've allowed myself to deny.

 

Regarding to "live with an emotionally closed off gal", I think I could live with it. The problem is, given some of what we've been through, and as AJ put it, I may very well be offering her security and that's why she's wants a marriage with me rather than love and determination to live a committed life. In short, she could and likely will eventually fall for another if he a) offered more, b) made her feel great about herself. This is not what I want. I don't want the sappy Hollywood crap, but I sure don't want hypergamy either.

 

On the other side of this vent-fest, there have been kindnesses and signs that things might be ... OK. I've made her out to be a bit of a monster, but she's not. She wants to take my last name, something I would never do as a woman. She has every friend known invited to the wedding (and a ton of work associates). I'm a full time father of a 16 year old 6'2" 200lb+ monster boy where her child is an adult, moved out and self sustaining. This is not a trivial offering from her. There is much skin on the table from these points of view. She also enjoys a close relationship with me as I do her (physically). By that I don't mean we both hyper sexual or something, but we tend to do everything together.

 

I'll cover more points as I answer other threads.

 

Z

[Zimber]

Does anyone in her family have relationships with healthy intimacy? She herself has never had it, and if she's never gotten to see that kind of dynamic.....a "seeing is believing" approach might help make some headway. I would think it's a challenge for her to be motivated to change something about herself when she can't see what's in it for her in the end. Maybe a therapist or another woman outside of her culture can help her paint that picture?

I've met some of her family, and it seems like it, but again, it's hard to tell. She doesn't share (or even recognize) the nuances that are exchanged between family members. She did say her father didn't like to talk. Didn't see the need in it. Her brother and sister seemed close, but so does she and I. Her mother shed a tear when she saw us together, but that doesn't really tell much.

 

Yeah....I could see how that's over and done with now, sorry to rehash it. I don't know about those cultures much, but what of them you said she's attracted to here doesn't resonate with anything like emotional intimacy.

Agreed, but that's not what I'm jealous of. It makes me nervous that she has absolutely no feelings to provide a deterant against doing what she wants. Out of sight, out of mind. I for instance could never cheat. I cannot consciously be a hypocrite. But then ... I don't have any screwy entitlement issues and I'm honest first and foremost (clearly, there is enough self beating up in my posts ).

 

Are you still debating whether this is a dealbreaker for you? As another poster mentioned, I think you should delay the marriage. Even if it turns out not to be a dealbreaker, I think it will take alot of work to accept this dynamic. At least give yourself some time to work on the bolded above without the pressure of marriage looming.

 

The delay will also likely show her that she can't keep this up and expect to get what she wants, which is basically what's been happening. Despite your concerns, loneliness, and frustration....at the end of the day she's still trotting right along to marriage which is a security she probably wants very much. That cultural pressure to marry will probably be enough to make her stay and really try to change this.

 

I have never been married, but my current relationship's on that track. I've had to give up a lot of my protectiveness to instill a solid foundation of trust in this relationship so that we can keep progressing and stay on that track. I've had to get some therapy sessions, and I've come here often to hash out my problems with helpful posters. It's been downright firghtening at times for me, and I don't think I would have found the courage in some situations to keep trying without a clear model of the endgoal and some encouragement from trusted friends. I really don't think she'll be able to see what a problem this is or what she can do to change it without some help from outside of the relationship.

 

If I delay this thing, I'm out of here!

I'm thinking I'm going to use this therapist to bring these things to a head. I'm not going to hold back. It's likely that he will say you two should not get married. He's likely correct.

 

Lets face it ... just like I wouldn't want a woman to enter a marriage that she knew would always be loveless from her point of view, I should not enter a marriage with so many issues. Remember my point of being a hypocrite? It applies here too. No woman is going to be happy knowing that she just married nutjob man! This stuff all has to come out in the pre-marital therapy.

 

If I'm honest with myself, right now, this is not looking good. I have another post that I want to make (after a meeting), but I want to get opinions on it. It's another screwy thing that helped to dredge all these frustrations back to the surface recently...

 

ps: this site and the people on this thread have been a godsend!

Thank you!

 

Z

[Minnie09]

I think I am kind of like that in the beginning of a R. I LOVE it when partners (BFs) open up to me -totally. But I hardly ever reciprocate. If I don't know someone very well, i.e. if the R is new, letting my guard down is too risky. That's how I see it. I do communicate a lot, I am bubbly enough, and I can have a meaningful conversation about almost everything, but I am guarded.

 

It doesn't bother me if my SO shares a lot early on. I like intimacy. I am interested in deep convos, but I am always on the watch. I don't want to be hurt. And IF the R should end, which is sometimes not in my control, I am still the one I used to be. No dirty laundry. I can walk away clean, so to speak.

 

I tend to change as the R progresses, though. When I see that my SO truly cares about me and has my back, no matter what, I typically do open up more and more.

[lucy_in_disguise]

I don't know....reading this thread, my feeling is that you are looking for reasons to sabotage this. Maybe YOU are the one whose feelings aren't all there?

 

You are making a lot of assumptions about what this means to her without a lot if evidence that its the case. She made n offhand comment about cheating when you first got together...so what? She had a point, people DO frequently cheat when unhappy... It doesn't mean she will. Has she not fou d a way to demonstrate her character to you in other ways?

 

I'm getting the sense that she's russian or Eastern European from your description. That is my cultural background as well even though I grew up here.i can see the stoicness being a product of that culture. Growing up I never heard my parents say I love you or express any affection physically. (They are happily married for 30+ years).

 

If you have questions about her motivations, you can lead discussions to figure out where she stands. I am not sure exactly what you want from her, or hope to glean, in desiring her to "open up".

 

In my experience some of the most "open" and verbally expressive people were the most full of ****.

[Zimber]

OK, the thing that "triggered" some of these things to resurface....

 

We where recently on vacation, one of these fancy, southern hemisphere, 5 star, adults only resorts where there is not much to do but eat, recharge and maybe some of the resort activities.

 

One thing that doesn't concern me, but I find extremely weird is that she will take the beginner Spanish lessons even though she speaks fluent Spanish. So the pattern is, the native teaches us how to say a few words/phrases and we repeat it. Of course she is always the most "apt" student in the class, for it's a joke to her. She beams in pride when told that she is a natural (remember, this woman is 46).

Yes, I understand this behavior, low self esteem. I get it, it's OK, I can and have helped her with it (I am a lovely mate for a person with low self esteem as I nudge, encourage, plant seeds of eventual insight until they feel great about themselves - disclaimer: this takes years, so ... my sample of benefactors are small).

 

This one bugs me a little ...

She also likes the Salsa dancing. Personally, I like the dance but am not wild about the North American Salsa culture (my views are not relevant I suppose). Point is, of course she's danced Salsa for years and is close to expert level. Same game as above. She goes in pretending to not know anything (me - I have learned, but never practiced, so ... I'm better than some, but certainly not the instructor). What happens (every time), is that the instructor quickly deems her as a "natural" and chooses her to A) chump the older husband while he stands by and watches like an idiot (and she is cute, shapely and looks 40), and B) she gets to look hot and again ... smart to the masses and ... especially me.

It triggers my paranoid reptilian brain. I don't feel like a fool, she looks the idiot wanting attention from a young tourist entertainer while her husband watches, but what does it reflect about her character?

 

WRT the dancing, I've bugged her to practice at home with me to which she agrees, but never gets around to it. Same as her native language (European, but not Slavic - sorry, don't want to peg a culture here :s ).

 

I would appreciate opinions on this little piece of the puzzle. I know what I think, but then I'm ... neurotic and have learned to not trust my ... neurotic reactions to things.

 

Thanks again,

 

Z

[Eivuwan]

My question is... is this an equal relationship in your eyes? It seems that you are offering more to her than she is to you. Do you have a tendency to want to save women with low self-esteem?

[Zimber]

My question is... is this an equal relationship in your eyes? It seems that you are offering more to her than she is to you. Do you have a tendency to want to save women with low self-esteem?

Oh gosh no.

My ex was a professor, the GF's after were 2 doctors and one business type.

In fact, this is my first woman holding a lessor career than my own.

 

A very good question though.

To elaborate, I dated a couple ethnic women in my time and I have to tell you the cultural differences were too significant for me to ... trouble them with.

 

However, to answer honestly, I don't believe this woman is bringing less to me than I to her other than finances. Let's face it, a pretty woman can always marry old and rich. I could go pursue a much younger/prettier potential partner but that's not what I'm after. My needs are simple. It's good that you ask, but please understand I'm a worried soon to be husband (or not) and I have a bride to be that cannot answer me if I ask "what is your opinion about what I just said - deer in the headlights".

 

Honestly, thank you for asking Eivuwan, you are one of my respected members!!!

 

Z

[Minnie09]

The story you told about the vacation, OP, is interesting. It tells me that she has low self esteem and is trying to look good to everyone. She engineers the situation so that everyone can admire her. She's not being genuine for lack of self worth. That's why she holds back and makes statements such as "I won't cry over a man any more". It's a control thing and she wants the upper hand.

Can it be a conscious thing in order to appear more mysterious, in order to ensure your never-ending admiration and interest?

[Zimber]

I don't know....reading this thread, my feeling is that you are looking for reasons to sabotage this. Maybe YOU are the one whose feelings aren't all there?

They are, but conditional. Nope, what's wrong with wanting your partner to say ILU? What's wrong with wanting your partner to care how their actions make you feel? What I offer is a little like what I hope for. However, I don't expect the same ... just a bit more respect maybe?

 

You are making a lot of assumptions about what this means to her without a lot if evidence that its the case. She made n offhand comment about cheating when you first got together...so what? She had a point, people DO frequently cheat when unhappy... It doesn't mean she will. Has she not fou d a way to demonstrate her character to you in other ways?

I suppose she has shown her interest in other ways. But what's that got to do with anything? She made those comments about "unhappy" until I got upset about it. My bad for not just dumping her at the time as a high risk. But I had/have my hopes ....

 

I'm getting the sense that she's russian or Eastern European from your description. That is my cultural background as well even though I grew up here.i can see the stoicness being a product of that culture. Growing up I never heard my parents say I love you or express any affection physically. (They are happily married for 30+ years).

Romanian, not exactly the same, but ... geographically, sure. Regarding the ILY, then why does she love to hear it? That's the thing? If she likes it, then why not return the gift? I'm not talking about oral here, I'm talking about a couple simple words. Why does she only text it when I pull back? That's F'ed up don't you think?

 

If you have questions about her motivations, you can lead discussions to figure out where she stands. I am not sure exactly what you want from her, or hope to glean, in desiring her to "open up".

There is no discussions with the emotionally unavailable. So ... that's not going to work.

 

In my experience some of the most "open" and verbally expressive people were the most full of ****.

Hence your own bias with my thread. Sigh ... I'm sorry you've been disappointed. Some of us "heart on sleeve types" actually mean what they say. Bedding a woman is easy, keeping her is the challenge now a days it seems

 

Z

[Zimber]

The story you told about the vacation, OP, is interesting. It tells me that she has low self esteem and is trying to look good to everyone. She engineers the situation so that everyone can admire her. She's not being genuine for lack of self worth. That's why she holds back and makes statements such as "I won't cry over a man any more". It's a control thing and she wants the upper hand.

Can it be a conscious thing in order to appear more mysterious, in order to ensure your never-ending admiration and interest?

Non-bold, yep, my thoughts exactly. However, it's sad in that I've helped her so much at work and frankly her social life. We're invited everywhere (dinners, galas ... ). The men of her woman friends like me, it's made her quite busy...

That said, for the person who might start to defend (please do btw, I would love to see things differently), she has influenced me tremendously too. I'm much calmer now than I used to be (truly).

 

Regarding mysterious ... I don't think so. Frankly, I have no idea though, nothing seems rational to me anymore.

 

Z

[2sunny]

I view you as an openly expressive male. And you've described her as a closed off and non opinionated gal.

 

It may be worth it to stay in the relationship with her - but to marry with such extreme differences that bother you now? No way!

 

If you enjoy your social interactions but find it's very empty on an emotional level - I can't see that working for you long term when it makes you feel empty handed as far as REALLY knowing her deep down.

 

Can you love and admire someone like that? Sure! Is it wise to think it is enough for 15 or 20 years with someone? Maybe... But only if you sign up for it knowing you're not going to change her - AND - knowing you agree that it WILL be enough to not hold it against her later.

 

Date. But don't marry.

 

 

And never expect her to change. It's her fear she's hiding behind. You can't MAKE her be unafraid - that is only hers to face and work through when she is ready and she may never be ready.

 

But I think your emotional/openness discontent is vast and wide. And thinking it's OK isn't enough to make it better.

 

 

It's who she is - if it's not good enough for you - allow her to be free to find a more suitable match for her closed nature.

 

Many men would love the emotionally void woman.

 

 

You may also be much happier with a gal that is better suited to what your needs are too.

[Eivuwan]

Oh gosh no.

 

However, to answer honestly, I don't believe this woman is bringing less to me than I to her other than finances. Let's face it, a pretty woman can always marry old and rich. I could go pursue a much younger/prettier potential partner but that's not what I'm after. My needs are simple. It's good that you ask, but please understand I'm a worried soon to be husband (or not) and I have a bride to be that cannot answer me if I ask "what is your opinion about what I just said - deer in the headlights".

 

Honestly, thank you for asking Eivuwan, you are one of my respected members!!!

 

Z

 

No problem. I just want to give you some perspective. When you gave me that example about how she couldn't even give you a simple opinion about something that's when I realize how extreme your situation is. My boyfriend is a very stoic man. He was brought up in underdeveloped country and had to take care of others since he was young. He says that he doesn't tell anybody anything about himself, etc. This includes his family and his friends. However, despite how guarded he is, he would still be able to tell me his opinion of something. Despite how guarded he is, he still lets it down enough to make sure it doesn't affect the relationship too much. Sometimes when I get frustrated with him due to his guardedness, he would make an effort to be open. He said that even though it seems to me that he doesn't communicate openly enough, he has been more open with me than he has been with anyone else. So it seems to me that when someone is emotionally invested enough in the relationship, they should be able to make some changes to their typical habits. I can understand if she can't talk about feelings with you, but to not even be able to tell you an opinion? That is just too extreme.

[2sunny]

For the record - I doubt this was NEW behavior after her prior relationship that included shouting at her.

 

More likely she's been this way since childhood and it started by a need to guard herself from something or someone growing up.

 

 

She's hiding something. She doesn't intend for you to ever find out what that is - as it has affected her in a profound way and protecting her secret at all costs is what makes her part and parcel of who she is.

 

Pulling out her secrets when she's not ready is never a good plan.

[Zimber]

Minnie, that is my take on it too and normally I wouldn't care. It's the second part of that post that annoys me. However, I concede that there are things I could do to alleviate that situation (become an expert dancer - private lessons booked for Tuesday and onwards...). If we survive this (because we're arguing a little at the same time - I let something out last night that she likely feels violated over), she will learn to feel more confident about herself.

 

2sunny, I truly would hate for this relationship to end. I'm soooo close to reaching life goals and this woman's interests are very similar to my own (I want to spend the next 20ish years living in different places and learn cultures while having low maintenance incomes).

Its my own insecurities (betrayal, fear of deception/abandonment) that are killing what we do share. If I was a shallow guy (or on heavy SSRI's), I'd be perfectly content. I likely could be now, but there are a couple views she has that I can't get over. She refuses to sign any paper prior to getting married (pre-nup). If she's so committed to this relationship, why would that even be an issue. At first I was OK with no pre-nup, now I'm thinking that I won't go forward without one. The therapist I sought out thinks I have danger signs in this relationship and I'm reacting to them in a predictable fashion. However, he's a very pragmatic fellow and just doesn't get / or respond to the intricacies of our problems. To him, it's about "can you live with it, and do you think she can commit?". Likely good advice for a balanced person :s

 

Regarding when this started ... who knows, but I agree, likely very early on. I'm thinking daddy was military monster. There is so little that escapes her lips about her history, but the couple things that has (thinking it was a funny story) really portrays that this fellow was quite heartless and frankly a little cruel. My issues trace back to monster father as well so I'm not unsympathetic by any means, it's the gas-lighting that has completely F'ed me in this relationship. Not cool, not courageous, serves no purpose other than self at the expense of another (an innocent).

 

Eivuwan, the opinions are there for if we need something or not from the store. Where to spend ... Where the opinions are completely lacking (unless pressed, then are usually evasion) are if the opinion will reflect some stance on ... moral values. It's any type of topic that would draw her into some sort of verbal commitment that she avoids or gives an answer that leaves doubt of her moral standing on that topic. This could just be a stubborn characteristic of hers and I could certainly learn to live with it. I just am having difficulties with it when she's ... evasive, sneaky a little. I know what I offer and it's a lot (a lot of baggage too I admit - but the baggage is easy to manage if I don't have to deal with gas lighting and stonewalling).

 

This thread has slapped me out of my bubble (with my own issues as well as with dealing with hers), but it's not been without cost. I'm edgy about things and she's picking it up (we're connected in a way where we say what the other is thinking all the time. It's uncanny actually, quite spooky!). We quarreled last night and I let it slip that I'm aware that the last "perfect" previous relationships was anything but (her friend blabbed to me). This fellow did nothing to fit into her life. She had to chase him around like a little dog. What bugs me is that she paints such a rosy picture about it. "Best relationship yet". Why wouldn't she just tell me the truth rather than hoping I will live up to a fictitious ghost? There are so many screwy dynamics to this relationship that my head is spinning (obviously). I don't need to be a person's be-all / end-all, I just want to be in an honest relationship where a person recognizes what they have and protects it (ps: yes, I would recognize it).

 

I'm not certain what today will bring me. Odds are she feels pretty violated after I revealed my knowledge of her past relationship. Funny, rather than answer the contradiction to her own story about it, she only cared about who told me this.

 

I'm upset with myself for that slip! It was not shared by her, therefore it should not have been mentioned. I was being made to feel it was all my fault and compared to her life experiences and that was not fair as they've not been shared (nor are even relevant).

 

We'll see how bad it is in a couple more hours when she wakes up. I'm thinking she will have one foot out of the door. Maybe that's for the best, but sure as heck is bothering me.

 

Z

Edited March 24, 2014 by Zimber

[Zimber]

Last little tidbit, maybe an insight.

 

We spoke a little this morning as we were both a little raw from last night.

She was a little frustrated and used the argument that she could say "I love you" daily but it wouldn't mean anything.

I of course asked if that meant that she falls in and out of love with me frequently? Her response after a little while ...

"No, that's not what it means. Sometimes I feel it so strongly I don't understand why that's not enough". Then she said something quite profound ... "It's like the words get stuck in my throat".

 

OK, now that got my attention. That smells of a resentment towards men that she loves. Whatever they want the most, they can't have? Who knows.

 

At this point I have no idea how to proceed accept through couples therapy. Maybe it will help us, or maybe it will help us face facts.

 

Z

[Zippity-Doo-Dah]

Oh, Zimber, Zimber, Zimber. You came here wanting help with a very real and complicated situation. You've had good advice. But you need to go back and re-read your original post. You have answered your own questions already. You don't need us to scream RED FLAG! WARNING! DANGER AHEAD! You already see it and just need some hand-holding to do a very difficult thing. You already know you can't marry her right now. How awkward is that? Invitations have been sent. Friends and family have made plans to attend. Money has been put down. Ugh. You are certainly going to hurt her feelings when you tell her you want to delay the wedding. But Dude! No pre-nup is a deal breaker. And even is she agreed to sign one at this point, isn't it a little too late? Her first reaction was 'no way!' and that speaks volumes. You have a sixteen year old son. He will always come first in your life. Always. You can't marry this woman and just trust that she'll be around and won't try to take your money when she leaves you next year. That's HIS inheritance. No way, man. RUN! Emotionally unavailable is not a temporary situation that will magically change after the ceremony, and you do not want to enjoy your golden years aching for an intimate relationship that you will never have. Sorry to be harsh. If you were in the same room I'd slap you silly, then hug you.

 

Zip

[Pineappls]

Well you dont know her that long.

 

People open up when they feel safe and depends on who they

are talking to.

And some topics that may be hard to talk about , sometimes people

talk about when they feel relax at a certain moment etc.

If there is no friendship build before getting intimate or getting in a relationship,

there is a chance that you think its all great to open up, while

there is no friendship built between you and her. Only romance etc.

 

If you talk about marriage you need to know something about those subjects you told us.

Maybe you need to give the relation time to grow ( if that is what it need).

before getting into big stuff like marriage.

ANd if its not someone open, you need to get open to her and ask questions.

 

But again, if someone dont know you well or dont feel safe or if there is no friendship build someone cant open up.

No everyone can be open easily.

Get to know the person you are dealing with.

Instead of going directly for what you think it should be and when and now.

 

Beside you cant force her. Maybe she dont feel free to express to you.

[Zimber]

you need to go back and re-read your original post. You have answered your own questions already. You don't need us to scream RED FLAG! WARNING! DANGER AHEAD!

Great name Zip, it was my second choice

 

The beauty about these forums (if you come with an open mind and trust the masses to see what you can/won't) is that they can help you tear down the walls of denial so you can start to deal.

Little did I know when I posted that first original post that it would be me that would be receiving the adjustment. I was (am still) frustrated and wanted to help her open up.

 

Haven't broke the news yet, it will come soon. Funny, last major breakup of mine, I wasn't the one who was able to emotionally prepare. Bah, who am I kidding, it won't help. I'm still going to be bummed about it big time.

 

Z

Z

[Zippity-Doo-Dah]

We're both Z's! Cool. I know you have hard stuff ahead, but hard now is so much better than impossible later. My story is long - but I married an emotionally unavailable person and have been incredibly lonely for the last twenty years. I thought it would change and it did - it got worse. I don't want to see anyone do that. You sound like a good man and I'd hate to see you walk into a marriage with doubts. If there had been a forum like this 20 years ago I'd have gotten smacked, too. Rightfully so. Hang in there. You'll get through.

[Zimber]

Well you dont know her that long.

 

People open up when they feel safe and depends on who they

are talking to.

And some topics that may be hard to talk about , sometimes people

talk about when they feel relax at a certain moment etc.

If there is no friendship build before getting intimate or getting in a relationship,

there is a chance that you think its all great to open up, while

there is no friendship built between you and her. Only romance etc.

 

If you talk about marriage you need to know something about those subjects you told us.

Maybe you need to give the relation time to grow ( if that is what it need).

before getting into big stuff like marriage.

ANd if its not someone open, you need to get open to her and ask questions.

 

But again, if someone dont know you well or dont feel safe or if there is no friendship build someone cant open up.

No everyone can be open easily.

Get to know the person you are dealing with.

Instead of going directly for what you think it should be and when and now.

 

Beside you cant force her. Maybe she dont feel free to express to you.

Thanks Pineappls, glad you took your picture down. My first thought is it might get you unwanted attention.

I'm pretty much done worrying about why she acts / feels the way she does. I'm never going to figure it out and as the majority of the posters on this thread have thought, it doesn't look very promising.

 

Matters not anymore. I'm kind of leaning towards the thought that I have no business marrying a woman that I have such concerns and conspiracies about regardless if I'm right or wrong. I'm quite certain she would want to know that kind of neurosis in advance If anything in life, I try hardest not to be a hypocrite and somewhere about mid-thread I realized I was about to / becoming one. Not cool.

 

Thanks,

 

Z