Is the slut-shaming as bad as the male virgin shaming?

February 4, 2014

And what about if the woman were a drug dealer before he met her, but no longer is? Would he be wrong to decide that kind of past is not what he wants in a wife? What about if the woman had a history of cheating on a spouse? People seem to think the past should not matter at all when selecting a spouse, but the past reflects a person's values, character, choices, coping mechanisms, level of self control, level of functioning, etc. Maybe that person has changed or tried to change, maybe not. Many people are not willing to take the chance on someone who has shown serious poor judgment or poor behavior in the past. I had mentioned on another thread that my sister had married a man with a history of multiple divorces. He seemed to have learned from the mistakes he made in his prior marriages. He seemed to have a change of heart, and owned his part in the demise of his marriages. He kept up the role of good partner and good husband for the first five years of their marriage, but then reverted to the same poor choices and poor functioning that led to his prior marriages failing, and their marriage then failed. Should she have ignored the past, decided the past is the past, and gone through with the marriage anyway? He seemed to have a major change of heart and was currently behaving quite well. No, she was not wise to ignore the past, and she realizes that now. There is nothing wrong with taking a person's past into account when deciding whether the person would make a good life partner. My sister wishes that she had not brushed it aside. People have a right to choose what criteria are important to them in a life partner. This attitude that "you have no right to consider my past when choosing your life partner" is pretty ludicrous to me, as is the attitude that "you are wrong or an ass for deciding my poor choices in the past are not a good risk to take when choosing a life partner."

I my computer was working I'd pull this sanctamonious thread apart. Overused and over analyzed. It is this thinkin that keeps peole from changing because what's the point? You will be forever judged by your past actions.

I am friends with this guy, grew up with him actually. He is over 30 now, honest and kind. He is married with two wonderful children. If he has ever cheated I have never heard about it. He doesn't do drugs or party or anything. But when he was 18 he sold drugs. For about 8 months. He also did drugs and partied. For a lot longer than 8 months. He was the only child of a single mom who was bat sht crazy. In his younger years he had a new dad every year. He'd get attatched and they'd move on.

He got busted but as a minor he avoided adult court though the prosecution pushed for it. He did his community service and took a good look at his life. And he smartened up. He met his wife three years later and the rest is history. Yeah she knew about his past but she saw that he was changed. He'd been through a hell some of us will never know. And he got lost for a while. If she had over analyzed and said "hey he had bad coping skills as a 16 year old I don't think he is marriage material" then it would have been her loss.

I guess what I am trying to say, if someone holds another person's ancient history against them and judges them by that not their current attotude and behaviours then they are the ones screwed up. I'd hate to go through life so haughty and arrogent. But more power to those that want to throw stones.

February 4, 2014

And what about if the woman were a drug dealer before he met her, but no longer is? Would he be wrong to decide that kind of past is not what he wants in a wife? What about if the woman had a history of cheating on a spouse? People seem to think the past should not matter at all when selecting a spouse, but the past reflects a person's values, character, choices, coping mechanisms, level of self control, level of functioning, etc. Maybe that person has changed or tried to change, maybe not. Many people are not willing to take the chance on someone who has shown serious poor judgment or poor behavior in the past. I had mentioned on another thread that my sister had married a man with a history of multiple divorces. He seemed to have learned from the mistakes he made in his prior marriages. He seemed to have a change of heart, and owned his part in the demise of his marriages. He kept up the role of good partner and good husband for the first five years of their marriage, but then reverted to the same poor choices and poor functioning that led to his prior marriages failing, and their marriage then failed. Should she have ignored the past, decided the past is the past, and gone through with the marriage anyway? He seemed to have a major change of heart and was currently behaving quite well. No, she was not wise to ignore the past, and she realizes that now. There is nothing wrong with taking a person's past into account when deciding whether the person would make a good life partner. My sister wishes that she had not brushed it aside. People have a right to choose what criteria are important to them in a life partner. This attitude that "you have no right to consider my past when choosing your life partner" is pretty ludicrous to me, as is the attitude that "you are wrong or an ass for deciding my poor choices in the past are not a good risk to take when choosing a life partner."

You have one thing right. The best predictor of future behavior IS often past behavior. I knew as soon as I pressed submit that someone would post this, and I knew it would be you.

I get it. Your version of Christianity means that I am forever stained.

And for the record, yes they do. I wouldn't want to be with a former drug dealer. And I didn't want to marry a man who had been with a bunch of women. However, I am also capable of seeing that people change and I believe that I will be forgiven "IN THE SAME WAY" as I forgive.

February 4, 2014

The study identifies a gene responsible for reckless behavior (including but not limited to promiscuity and infidelity) but no where does it specifically say a person who is promiscuous is more likely to cheat. 25% of the people in the group that didn't have the gene reported promiscuity (which is important to consider in studies like this)

It was also conducted among young adults : average age of participants was 20/21 years old. Moreso, they interviewed only 181 people.

Straight from the actual study:
PLOS ONE: Associations between Dopamine D4 Receptor Gene Variation with Both Infidelity and Sexual Promiscuity

- As such, and as the first report of this association, it is important to recognize that alternative explanations remain possible and these findings should not be considered definitive at this point.

-Given general reasons to be cautious in behavioral genetic research and the inherently probabilistic relationship observed, we emphasize that it would be prudent to avoid premature and facile characterizations of the DRD4 VNTR polymorphism as “the promiscuity gene” or “the cheating gene.”

Journalists will say what will get people to read their articles.

I just sent an email to one of my university's sex researchers. Her main area of study is casual sex.
I'm looking forward to her response.

A judgmental legalist's wet dream - proof that those of us who have sinned were defective from the womb.

February 4, 2014

I guess what I am trying to say, if someone holds another person's ancient history against them and judges them by that not their current attotude and behaviours then they are the ones screwed up. I'd hate to go through life so haughty and arrogent. But more power to those that want to throw stones.

What if I still don't want to date former drug dealers nor reformed casanovas? I've never done drugs nor slept around and so ask for the same in return in a man. Is this too much to ask?

I have nothing against people that made wrong choices in the past and turned their life around or practice casual sex but it's just my preference that I don't want to date those men. I want a man with a more cleaner and reserved past, just like mine.

February 4, 2014

What if I still don't want to date former drug dealers nor reformed casanovas? I've never done drugs nor slept around and so ask for the same in return in a man. Is this too much to ask?

I have nothing against people that made wrong choices in the past and turned their life around or practice casual sex but it's just my preference that I don't want to date those men. I want a man with a more cleaner and reserved past, just like mine.

That makes sense to me. People who seem to be bent on making sure no one ELSE gives a less than perfect the time of day and/or are incapable of being wrong about anything are the ones who grate all over me.

February 4, 2014

I agree with most of your post, but disagree with this part. You are basing it on the assumption that men who display hypocritical behaviour in their judgments of others are normal and fine - and some of us disagree with that.

It's perfectly fine to choose one's partner based on any criteria one pleases, and I have no issue with that. However, when one expects certain criteria, I'd think that most mature and responsible individuals would apply the same standards or value judgments to themselves, as they do to their partner.

Of course, if anyone wishes to be a hypocrite, that is also their prerogative, but it is our prerogative to call them for what they are (just as 'slut' is only an offensive term if you give it power, so is 'hypocrite', is it not?). And our prerogative to find such to be unattractive traits in a person.

I don't assume that men who display hypocritical behavior are normal or fine, I just assume that most of these guys don't care if others perceive them as hypocrites.

I do agree that hypocritical behavior is unattractive. I just feel that their desire for a "low numbered" woman is much stronger than their desire to NOT be a hypocrite. In other words, they would much rather be labeled a hypocrite or sexist, than to risk a relationship with a high numbered woman.

I'm not saying this is right or that I agree with it, it is just reality as I see it.

It's very similar to racism. For example, take an average white guy who believes in equal rights, has black friends & neighbors, is always respectful of black people, etc. He doesn't see himself as a racist guy. However, his daughter brings home a black boyfriend, and he has issues with this and forbids the relationship. In this instance, the situation is so personal that he doesn't care if he is perceived as racist. His desire to end his daughters relationship is much stronger than any fear of being labeled a racist.

February 4, 2014

What if I still don't want to date former drug dealers nor reformed casanovas? I've never done drugs nor slept around and so ask for the same in return in a man. Is this too much to ask?

I have nothing against people that made wrong choices in the past and turned their life around or practice casual sex but it's just my preference that I don't want to date those men. I want a man with a more cleaner and reserved past, just like mine.

No you can hold people's past over their heads all you want. That is your freedom. But it can mean you may lose the chance of a wonderful relationship with a man who would cherish you like a precious gem.

My husband had pretty darn perfect past. Nothing over the top. And he cheated. Past behaviour is not always an insight into future behaviour. People are just not that cut and dry.

But past behavioir and how the person currently views their past behavior can be.

February 4, 2014

I don't assume that men who display hypocritical behavior are normal or fine, I just assume that most of these guys don't care if others perceive them as hypocrites.

I do agree that hypocritical behavior is unattractive. I just feel that their desire for a "low numbered" woman is much stronger than their desire to NOT be a hypocrite. In other words, they would much rather be labeled a hypocrite or sexist, than to risk a relationship with a high numbered woman.

I'm not saying this is right or that I agree with it, it is just reality as I see it.

It's very similar to racism. For example, take an average white guy who believes in equal rights, has black friends & neighbors, is always respectful of black people, etc. He doesn't see himself as a racist guy. However, his daughter brings home a black boyfriend, and he has issues with this and forbids the relationship. In this instance, the situation is so personal that he doesn't care if he is perceived as racist. His desire to end his daughters relationship is much stronger than any fear of being labeled a racist.

I wouldn't even put it like that. Women that scream hypocrisy are missing the reason totally. People don't really want to date people like them. Do you think the player would really want to be in a relationship with a female version of himself? Do you think the promiscuous woman really wants a male version of them? Would a broke woman want to date a broke unmotivated man? They often want better people to date. They have on some level the insight to understand what dating them entails and refuse to have to deal with a partner that potentially could put them through the same struggles they put partners though. That doesn't make them hypocrites. That's just their preference of who they want in a partner. We all have preferences. It's just like some of the LS women on here that scream they don't want players but hate "slut-shaming". If these women are going to scream hypocrisy about men then they need to look at themselves because they ultimately are doing the same thing.

February 4, 2014

I wouldn't even put it like that. Women that scream hypocrisy are missing the reason totally. People don't really want to date people like them.

I do want my male counterpart in terms of low sexual history and not a party animal.

February 4, 2014

If being perceived as judgmental keeps a man from getting with a woman who might cheat on him most of them think it is well worth it. It is all about self protection. Are guys allowed to take any precautions to keep themselves from being hurt?

February 4, 2014

I do want my male counterpart in terms of low sexual history and not a party animal.

I meant players or promiscuous people. Nice people ultimately are the only ones that would date themselves. That is what I was talking about. Read further after that to get what I am saying

February 4, 2014

Thankfully, there was always people taking a stand to make things change.

Nothing wrong with attitudes like Quiet Storm's but if everyone had the same attitude, I'm pretty sure women still couldn't vote and we would still have black slaves...

I get what you are saying and in my younger years I was very much the same. I'm just jaded by my life experience.

I met my husband in 1991. He's black, I'm white, we have three kids. In the beginning, I did think I could change people. I didn't want to be judged. I didn't want my kids to be judged. It bothered me. I wanted to be an example & show people with stereotypes that a family like mine can be well educated, successful, self sufficient, etc.

Over time, though, I changed my perspective to "Why should my kids have to prove anything to anyone?" Instead of showing the world that my mixed kids aren't on welfare, my mixed kids have a dad in the home, my kids are honor roll students- I realized that it would benefit my kids if I prepared them for the harsh realities of this world. How to deal with adversity, how to take the high road, how to recognize & avoid certain types of people. People ARE going to judge you- it's how you handle that judgement that matters. You can't take it personally. Someone else's judgement has no impact at ALL on your value.

It's great if my family's example inspires change. However, if changing the world means that I have to constantly prove myself to those that don't value me, then I'm just not up for that anymore.

Applying that same mindset to this scenario, I would say that if you are a high numbered woman, why the need to prove to a judgemental man that you can be just as faithful & have similar values? He is already judging & devaluing you- why put yourself through trying to show that you are good enough? He doesn't deserve your brainspace. My suggestion is to not take it personally & find a guy who doesn't have a problem with it.

February 4, 2014

If being perceived as judgmental keeps a man from getting with a woman who might cheat on him most of them think it is well worth it. It is all about self protection. Are guys allowed to take any precautions to keep themselves from being hurt?

I think the issue is that women get seen as not being relationship material. In a way it's the same as the issue with nice guy/bad boys. Guys ultimately are seen as not being sexual partners. Women may see this as two different scenarios but their is one commonality that people are excluded as desirable to the opposite sex.

February 4, 2014

I get what you are saying and in my younger years I was very much the same. I'm just jaded by my life experience.

I met my husband in 1991. He's black, I'm white, we have three kids. In the beginning, I did think I could change people. I didn't want to be judged. I didn't want my kids to be judged. It bothered me. I wanted to be an example & show people with stereotypes that a family like mine can be well educated, successful, self sufficient, etc.

Over time, though, I changed my perspective to "Why should my kids have to prove anything to anyone?" Instead of showing the world that my mixed kids aren't on welfare, my mixed kids have a dad in the home, my kids are honor roll students- I realized that it would benefit my kids if I prepared them for the harsh realities of this world. How to deal with adversity, how to take the high road, how to recognize & avoid certain types of people. People ARE going to judge you- it's how you handle that judgement that matters. You can't take it personally. Someone else's judgement has no impact at ALL on your value.

It's great if my family's example inspires change. However, if changing the world means that I have to constantly prove myself to those that don't value me, then I'm just not up for that anymore.

Applying that same mindset to this scenario, I would say that if you are a high numbered woman, why the need to prove to a judgemental man that you can be just as faithful & have similar values? He is already judging & devaluing you- why put yourself through trying to show that you are good enough? He doesn't deserve your brainspace. My suggestion is to not take it personally & find a guy who doesn't have a problem with it.

AMEN!!!

If someone is so judgemental and critical they won't be with someone over their sexual past it isn't the person with the past's loss!

Whether the person is a male virgin or a reformed "slut"

February 4, 2014

If being perceived as judgmental keeps a man from getting with a woman who might cheat on him most of them think it is well worth it. It is all about self protection. Are guys allowed to take any precautions to keep themselves from being hurt?

You should know that there is no formula that keeps a man from getting with a guy that cheats. There is no magical key to this. You could cut out a whole bunch of things and still get cheated on. Reducingchances is just someone tryin to make themselves feel better.

February 4, 2014

If being perceived as judgmental keeps a man from getting with a woman who might cheat on him most of them think it is well worth it. It is all about self protection. Are guys allowed to take any precautions to keep themselves from being hurt?

By all means.

Except no one's has been able to provide definitive proof that promiscuous women are more likely to cheat than non-promiscuous women.

February 4, 2014

By all means.
Except no one's has been able to provide definitive proof that promiscuous women are more likely to cheat than non-promiscuous women.

Just like no proof that Players are more likely to cheat than non players.

February 4, 2014

I get what you are saying and in my younger years I was very much the same. I'm just jaded by my life experience.

I met my husband in 1991. He's black, I'm white, we have three kids. In the beginning, I did think I could change people. I didn't want to be judged. I didn't want my kids to be judged. It bothered me. I wanted to be an example & show people with stereotypes that a family like mine can be well educated, successful, self sufficient, etc.

Over time, though, I changed my perspective to "Why should my kids have to prove anything to anyone?" Instead of showing the world that my mixed kids aren't on welfare, my mixed kids have a dad in the home, my kids are honor roll students- I realized that it would benefit my kids if I prepared them for the harsh realities of this world. How to deal with adversity, how to take the high road, how to recognize & avoid certain types of people. People ARE going to judge you- it's how you handle that judgement that matters. You can't take it personally. Someone else's judgement has no impact at ALL on your value.

It's great if my family's example inspires change. However, if changing the world means that I have to constantly prove myself to those that don't value me, then I'm just not up for that anymore.

Applying that same mindset to this scenario, I would say that if you are a high numbered woman, why the need to prove to a judgemental man that you can be just as faithful & have similar values? He is already judging & devaluing you- why put yourself through trying to show that you are good enough? He doesn't deserve your brainspace. My suggestion is to not take it personally & find a guy who doesn't have a problem with it.

I completely agree.

But see, as far as slut shaming goes: I'm defending an idea - not my idea. No one here knows how many partners I had.

For all you know I've been married to my High School sweetheart for 15 years or I could have accumulated over 100 partners.

I am not defending my right to f*ck. I am defending every woman's right to f*ck.

But I get your point - and I respect it.

February 4, 2014

Just like no proof that Players are more likely to cheat than non players.

If by player you mean 'a single man who has casual sex' then I agree with you.

However, I though a player was a man who lies, cheats and deceits women in repetition?

February 4, 2014

I don't think that we should care about what people we don't know or care about think. There are people that will call a woman who sleeps with many men a slut and there are people who will call a man who is a virgin after X age names. Do we even care? Why would we live our lives according to what a percentage of people think? What I've come to understand is that people will always find something bad to say for every situation possible. Are you a virgin? You are ugly and nobody wants you. Do you sleep with a lot of people? You are insecure and a nympho. Do you always try to have a serious relationship? You are insecure (yes this goes to many situations ) and you can't be happy by yourself. If I gave much thought to what people think to live my life I think I would be in a monastery by now.

February 4, 2014

Just like no proof that Players are more likely to cheat than non players.

If your current boyfriend is flirting and showing attention to other girls and generally has bad boundaries that is not PAST behaviour and therefore a warning sign. But if your current boyfriend used to do that and is disgusted by his own behaviour and that behaviour in other men... That is completely different.

February 4, 2014

Same goes for women

February 4, 2014

alrighty peeps.

That sex researcher I contacted about this issue responded to my email here is a copy/paste of her email. Feel free to follow the link to her blog about the study mentioned earlier.

Thanks for your email. I have actually blogged about the study you mentioned below: I cheat and sleep around because it?s in my genes

I’m not sure why the shamers would think that this would work differently in men versus women. I don’t know of a lot of good research that has identified genetic support of people being more/less likely to cheat. We have some behavioural measures about willingness to engage in casual sex (sociosexual orientation) but again, they are behavioural/attitudinal measures (e.g., sex without love is okay).

Also, a majority of people who engage in extra-dyadic sex (cheating) report that it’s opportunistic and they took advantage of a situation that presented itself. Is that evidence of cheating? Maybe, if you want to argue that men and women alike possess the ability to engage in short-term or long-term mating and the situation dictates which strategy they use.

So, I’m not sure I’ve helped you!

Let me know if I’ve at least understood your question.

February 4, 2014

alrighty peeps.

That sex researcher I contacted about this issue responded to my email here is a copy/paste of her email. Feel free to follow the link to her blog about the study mentioned earlier.

Your one person's blog of questionable origin really does not have any validity over an actual study done.

Here is a worldwide study done that covered multiple countries, using over ten thousand participants in the study, which showed that certain personality factors are correlated with short-term sex, including promiscuity and infidelity. Specifically, the strongest personality factor in promiscuity and infidelity is an impulsive personality type. There are other personality factors that are also correlated with both promiscuity and infidelity, such as neuroticism in women. The study also cites many other studies which back up it's claims.

http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/ep06246282.pdf

February 4, 2014

Your one person's blog of questionable origin really does not have any validity over an actual study done.

Here is a worldwide study done that covered multiple countries, using over ten thousand participants in the study, which showed that certain personality factors are correlated with short-term sex, including promiscuity and infidelity. Specifically, the strongest personality factor in promiscuity and infidelity is an impulsive personality type. There are other personality factors that are also correlated with both promiscuity and infidelity, such as neuroticism in women. The study also cites many other studies which back up it's claims.

http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/ep06246282.pdf

Oh you mean her PhD in psychology and the fact she is a sex researcher focusing on casual sex doesn't make her a good reference concerning casual sex research?

My bad...

The study you posted links promiscuity and infidelity with certain personality traits.

It doesn't even come close to proving people who are sexually promiscuous are more likely to cheat than non promiscuous people.

Sign In

Is the slut-shaming as bad as the male virgin shaming?

Recommended Posts

Fluttershy

janedoe67

janedoe67

samsungxoxo

janedoe67

Quiet Storm

Fluttershy

joystickd

samsungxoxo

Woggle

joystickd

Quiet Storm

joystickd

Fluttershy

Fluttershy

GoreSP

joystickd

GoreSP

GoreSP

Iguanna

Fluttershy

joystickd

GoreSP

KathyM

GoreSP

What's New

My Activity Streams

More...