Is the slut-shaming as bad as the male virgin shaming?

[Quiet Storm]

Everything we do has consequences. Those consequences may not be fair or right, but we have to deal with them nonetheless. Judgement from others is just a reality of life, imo. It would be great if everyone was fair, open minded, forgiving and unaffected by the past. I just think having those expectations will result in disappointment.

 

As a white woman that married a black guy, some people make judgements about me. Their judgements are wrong, hypocritical, stupid, etc. But I knew some people have opinions on interracial relationships. But pointing that out and trying to change them would just stress me out. It's much easier to just avoid them and surround yourself with people that accept you.

 

So if you have sex for fun outside of relationships, it would be smart to prepare yourself for judgement. There will be men that are turned off by that. Calling them hypocrites and saying they have no right to judge doesn't change this fact. People have their ideal mate in mind and can judge based on whatever they want. Most aren't concerned about appearing hypocritical or giving someone the benefit of the doubt. They would rather be labeled a hypocrite than take the risk. They will choose what they feel is a safer option. Political correctness or fairness isn't a factor.

 

We are all judged, fairly or not. It is naive to assume that you won't be. I really wonder if parents are preparing their kids for the real world. Our actions have consequences and kids should be prepared to handle judgement and adversity. As with any name calling or derogatory slur... It only offends you if you allow it to. Slut is just a word and is only powerful if you are offended by it.

[gDizzie]

Well, tough luck. Deal with it.

 

Oh and I also find casual sex disgusting actually, you have a problem with that as well?

Can't say that. Not when we're now dealing with extreme feminists willing to attack with anything.

 

No options in the dating pool for us anymore. If I had been born in the 1960's, I think I would have found her early and we would have probably been each other's first just like my grandparents are.

[Woggle]

Everything we do has consequences. Those consequences may not be fair or right, but we have to deal with them nonetheless. Judgement from others is just a reality of life, imo. It would be great if everyone was fair, open minded, forgiving and unaffected by the past. I just think having those expectations will result in disappointment.

 

As a white woman that married a black guy, some people make judgements about me. Their judgements are wrong, hypocritical, stupid, etc. But I knew some people have opinions on interracial relationships. But pointing that out and trying to change them would just stress me out. It's much easier to just avoid them and surround yourself with people that accept you.

 

So if you have sex for fun outside of relationships, it would be smart to prepare yourself for judgement. There will be men that are turned off by that. Calling them hypocrites and saying they have no right to judge doesn't change this fact. People have their ideal mate in mind and can judge based on whatever they want. Most aren't concerned about appearing hypocritical or giving someone the benefit of the doubt. They would rather be labeled a hypocrite than take the risk. They will choose what they feel is a safer option. Political correctness or fairness isn't a factor.

 

We are all judged, fairly or not. It is naive to assume that you won't be. I really wonder if parents are preparing their kids for the real world. Our actions have consequences and kids should be prepared to handle judgement and adversity. As with any name calling or derogatory slur... It only offends you if you allow it to. Slut is just a word and is only powerful if you are offended by it.

 

I agree. Most people are going to put self protection over being progressive. That is human nature.

[Andy_K]

If I had a choice of two 25 year old women, one has been with three guys and has only had sex in a relationship. Or one who's been with 12, I'd chose the woman with 3.

 

I'd pick the one with 12. Pick the good girl and one day you'll be on here complaining about a sexless marriage. Pick the bad girl with a bit of a history but a heart of gold, and you won't have that problem.

[KathyM]

I'd pick the one with 12. Pick the good girl and one day you'll be on here complaining about a sexless marriage. Pick the bad girl with a bit of a history but a heart of gold, and you won't have that problem.

There's no truth to that generalization. There is no correlation between promiscuity before marriage and frequency of sex with a spouse after marriage. I have never seen a study that showed any such correlation. Studies show there is, however, a correlation between promiscuity before marriage and infidelity after marriage.

[Els]

There will be men that are turned off by that. Calling them hypocrites and saying they have no right to judge doesn't change this fact. People have their ideal mate in mind and can judge based on whatever they want. Most aren't concerned about appearing hypocritical or giving someone the benefit of the doubt. They would rather be labeled a hypocrite than take the risk.

 

I agree with most of your post, but disagree with this part. You are basing it on the assumption that men who display hypocritical behaviour in their judgments of others are normal and fine - and some of us disagree with that.

 

It's perfectly fine to choose one's partner based on any criteria one pleases, and I have no issue with that. However, when one expects certain criteria, I'd think that most mature and responsible individuals would apply the same standards or value judgments to themselves, as they do to their partner.

 

Of course, if anyone wishes to be a hypocrite, that is also their prerogative, but it is our prerogative to call them for what they are (just as 'slut' is only an offensive term if you give it power, so is 'hypocrite', is it not?). And our prerogative to find such to be unattractive traits in a person.

[GoreSP]

There's no truth to that generalization. There is no correlation between promiscuity before marriage and frequency of sex with a spouse after marriage. I have never seen a study that showed any such correlation. Studies show there is, however, a correlation between promiscuity before marriage and infidelity after marriage.

 

Can you please post links to those studies?

[GoreSP]

There's no truth to that generalization. There is no correlation between promiscuity before marriage and frequency of sex with a spouse after marriage. I have never seen a study that showed any such correlation. Studies show there is, however, a correlation between promiscuity before marriage and infidelity after marriage.

 

I'd pick the one with 12. Pick the good girl and one day you'll be on here complaining about a sexless marriage. Pick the bad girl with a bit of a history but a heart of gold, and you won't have that problem.

 

 

There is absolutely no correlation between the number of partners and enjoyment of sex.

Seriously people...

[Els]

I wanted to edit to add:

Edit: For the record, I really have no stakes in this debate - I have very few previous partners, as does my long-term SO. This is not an issue to me in real life, nor will it ever be. It just irks me to see hypocritical behaviour being accepted as 'normal' and okay - because it is not, IME and IMO.

[GoreSP]

I agree. Most people are going to put self protection over being progressive. That is human nature.

 

Thankfully, there was always people taking a stand to make things change.

 

Nothing wrong with attitudes like Quiet Storm's but if everyone had the same attitude, I'm pretty sure women still couldn't vote and we would still have black slaves...

[GoreSP]

I wanted to edit to add:

Edit: For the record, I really have no stakes in this debate - I have very few previous partners, as does my long-term SO. This is not an issue to me in real life, nor will it ever be. It just irks me to see hypocritical behaviour being accepted as 'normal' and okay - because it is not, IME and IMO.

 

Meh. I don't think number of partners has importance here

 

I don't care if you were a virgin until marriage and have sex only for the purpose of reproduction. You still don't have business telling me what I should and shouldn't do with my vulva/vagina.

Not 'you' you but, you know lol

[Els]

Meh. I don't think number of partners has importance here

 

I don't care if you were a virgin until marriage and have sex only for the purpose of reproduction. You still don't have business telling me what I should and shouldn't do with my vulva/vagina.

Not 'you' you but, you know lol

 

I was referring to QS's post about choice of partners, not actual slut-shaming or telling strangers what to do with their lives. The latter is wrong regardless of one's 'number', yes.

[GoreSP]

I was referring to QS's post about choice of partners, not actual slut-shaming or telling strangers what to do with their lives. The latter is wrong regardless of one's 'number', yes.

 

Yeaaaah but somehow, deep down I get the feeling that if I was to turn down a man because he doesn't have enough sexual experience for my taste, I would get flamed...

lol

[ltjg45]

Unfortunately men who aren't into casual sex just don't have too many options in the dating pool.

 

I don't know if that is really true. My options in the US may be minimal since I just don't meet what women here generally wants. Being a virgin at my age only hurts my case.

 

That's fine. There is only so much self-improvement a person can do.

 

However, in foreign countries, I am getting interest from women there that makes me feel a bit skeptical that it is genuine. They are drop dead gorgeous when compared to the US woman I got turned down for.

 

So I don't know if I have options or not but I will explore every opportunity that is available to find the woman I truly want.

[gDizzie]

I don't know if that is really true. My options in the US may be minimal since I just don't meet what women here generally wants. Being a virgin at my age only hurts my case.

 

That's fine. There is only so much self-improvement a person can do.

The reason for this is mainly due to feminism. As soon as it was given out, some women took it to the extreme and overdid it with it. Back in my grandparents' time, a serious, family-oriented guy was in high demand and there were more people waiting for either a meaningful relationship or until marriage. Nowadays, it's all about being casual minded about everything and them copying player-like behaviors. Back then a kind and virtuous guy got a kind, virtuous girl. Now it doesn't work that way. In addition, there was no such thing as PUA line nor playing the ''how to be a stud'' game to get dates.

 

While, I have no problems getting a gf I've had to walked out of several dates when I was single because they were the types or twice just when I thought I've found her, I got rejected as well too. Now that is so frustrating. Just imagine, you don't get rejected but you won't end up with the girl you want or you actually think you've found her but get rejected.

 

So I don't know if I have options or not but I will explore every opportunity that is available to find the woman I truly want.

Yes, I'm starting to believe that's the only option. It's nice that you want to travel. Good. Don't settle for less. As for me, I don't think I care anymore. I'm nearly close to throwing the towel and just stay with what I can get.

 

If anyone doesn't believe me check this out what this girl wrote on another site about what she thinks a virgin guy should tell his date (and no, when I was a virgin, I was honest about it since the beginning):

 

23. Was aware, and he acted the part 100%. Yuck.

 

 

If you look half decent and don't act like a candy-ass, she won't assume you're a virgin. Even if you stumble, bust in a minute, and have no stroke, she'll just assume you've mostly had drunken hookups or don't really give a *** about getting her off.

 

Chicks do NOT assume that dudes are virgins unless it's written all over their every action. If you act like an awkward beta, super timid or weird, then she might figure it out.

 

 

That said, I don't want to know that he's a virgin beforehand. No. Just... no. Most women (beyond the teenage virgin years) want a guy to have some experience and know what he's doing. The idea of having to teach a guy what's up is not attractive. Then there's also concern about him getting clingy/weird or having unrealistic expectations because it's his first time and he's expecting a porno.

 

You don't have to lie.. just don't answer.

 

"Don't worry about it."

 

"Wouldn't you like to know."

 

"A man doesn't kiss and tell."

 

"Enough."

 

"C'mon now, gotta keep a little mystery."

 

"Take a guess." Then go with "not quite that high," "haha, oh, I see how it is," or "Hm. Yeah, we'll go with that."

 

 

Just evade giving a real answer. Not that complicated. Just don't say it like a dick... do it in a flirty/jocular way.

 

What is wrong with just telling the truth if you're a male virgin and none of those stupid lines nor lies. My grandfather didn't have to lie his way nor created suspense about it. Just great, so the advice nowadays is to be a fake and PUA.

[acrosstheuniverse]

Apologies if this has already been said, but the primary reason it seems unequal to me is because a man who is shamed for being a virgin (although I literally don't know anyone who has that attitude) can turn things around, once he has sex with a woman or two then that status is wiped away from him. A woman shamed for being a 'slut', however, can't actually do anything about that. She can't reduce the number of people she's slept with. And if she's single, chances are she's going to add to that number significantly before she finds the right person she's going to be with for a long time.

 

Slut-shaming is one of the more disgusting aspects of human behaviour, IMO. The only thing a high number says about someone is that they probably, on the whole, don't value the emotional aspect of sex quite as highly as someone with a very low number (there are exceptions) on every instance of sex. It even seems ridiculous to have a 'number' at all, like out of all the things in the world you could count, the number of times a different guy's dick has been in you is somehow relevant.

 

I'm 26, my number is in the mid teens, I have never cheated but I love sex and my sexuality and sometimes I just want to have some no-strings fun with somebody (always somebody I already know well, however, never been into the one night stand with a stranger thing). The right guy for me wouldn't give a toss about that, in my opinion. I would actually judge him for judging me based on something like that at the expense of every other part of my character. If people want to judge me that's fine, as the fact alone that they would be willing to judge me for my number of sex partners would essentially render their opinions valueless for me, I'd probably lose respect so what they thought wouldn't matter anyway. I've had a boyfriend who had one partner before me and a boyfriend who'd had 80 and I can honestly say that neither of those histories bothered me once all of the sexual health checks were done prior to leaving condoms and going onto the pill.

[gDizzie]

Because of those sudden changes, what ends up becoming to the truly serious guys are two possibilities:

 

a) He ends up becoming a manwhore and probably slut-shamer because when he was himself, it didn't work out

 

b) He is still conservative like me but has to settle for less in the end.

 

I once stumbled upon a girl like that Randommisc poster and dumped her the following day.

[janedoe67]

For men out there who may be - oh the horror - virgins in your 20's:

 

There ARE still women who value that instead of seeing it as a "shame." My eldest daughter is one of those. There ARE still people out there who want to save the one thing you can only give away once for the person with whom they plan to spend the rest of their lives. IF a woman rejects you just because you haven't had sex, that - IMO - says more about her than about you.

 

For the women out there who aren't lily white....I was. I was over 25 when I married, and I was a virgin. Guess what? I ended up cheating. My BFF had sort of a "wild" late teen and college years phase. She has been faithfully and happily married to her husband - both of whom are strong growing Christians - for 25 years. And for those who say "faithful as far as you know," really? Seriously? Someone who is supposed to be like Jesus is THAT jaded? Plus, she and I share pretty much everything. And she knows I cheated. If she was gonna keep secrets, it wouldn't be from me. A man who has character will choose them woman you ARE and not the woman you WERE. So again, a man who judges you by what you did before you even met him....again, that says more about him than it does about you.

[somedude81]

I'd pick the one with 12. Pick the good girl and one day you'll be on here complaining about a sexless marriage. Pick the bad girl with a bit of a history but a heart of gold, and you won't have that problem.

I seriously disagree with you

 

There is just no correlation to how many partners a woman has and how much she enjoys sex.

 

What would you pick, the girl who sleeps around but only has sex once a week?

 

Or the girl who's only been with one guy and they had sex every single day?

[TouchedByViolet]

I don't understand why women complain at all... it's just so easy.

 

1- most women can get sex whenever they want.

2- many men will put in time, spend money, and put up with all sorts of crazy women just for the chance of sex.

3- slut shaming is mostly done by women against other women.

4- Women make careers and MILLIONS through being a slut. Look at Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton, Pamela Anderson etc.

5- But most importantly, why do you care about what others think of you? If you are a slut who is happy with herself it doesn't even matter what others think. Easy life.

[KathyM]

For men out there who may be - oh the horror - virgins in your 20's:

 

There ARE still women who value that instead of seeing it as a "shame." My eldest daughter is one of those. There ARE still people out there who want to save the one thing you can only give away once for the person with whom they plan to spend the rest of their lives. IF a woman rejects you just because you haven't had sex, that - IMO - says more about her than about you.

 

For the women out there who aren't lily white....I was. I was over 25 when I married, and I was a virgin. Guess what? I ended up cheating. My BFF had sort of a "wild" late teen and college years phase. She has been faithfully and happily married to her husband - both of whom are strong growing Christians - for 25 years. And for those who say "faithful as far as you know," really? Seriously? Someone who is supposed to be like Jesus is THAT jaded? Plus, she and I share pretty much everything. And she knows I cheated. If she was gonna keep secrets, it wouldn't be from me. A man who has character will choose them woman you ARE and not the woman you WERE. So again, a man who judges you by what you did before you even met him....again, that says more about him than it does about you.

And what about if the woman were a drug dealer before he met her, but no longer is? Would he be wrong to decide that kind of past is not what he wants in a wife? What about if the woman had a history of cheating on a spouse? People seem to think the past should not matter at all when selecting a spouse, but the past reflects a person's values, character, choices, coping mechanisms, level of self control, level of functioning, etc. Maybe that person has changed or tried to change, maybe not. Many people are not willing to take the chance on someone who has shown serious poor judgment or poor behavior in the past. I had mentioned on another thread that my sister had married a man with a history of multiple divorces. He seemed to have learned from the mistakes he made in his prior marriages. He seemed to have a change of heart, and owned his part in the demise of his marriages. He kept up the role of good partner and good husband for the first five years of their marriage, but then reverted to the same poor choices and poor functioning that led to his prior marriages failing, and their marriage then failed. Should she have ignored the past, decided the past is the past, and gone through with the marriage anyway? He seemed to have a major change of heart and was currently behaving quite well. No, she was not wise to ignore the past, and she realizes that now. There is nothing wrong with taking a person's past into account when deciding whether the person would make a good life partner. My sister wishes that she had not brushed it aside. People have a right to choose what criteria are important to them in a life partner. This attitude that "you have no right to consider my past when choosing your life partner" is pretty ludicrous to me, as is the attitude that "you are wrong or an ass for deciding my poor choices in the past are not a good risk to take when choosing a life partner."

[joystickd]

I'd say it's equal but then at the same time it depends on the person you are dealing with. Remember pornstars do get married but then they are more honest about their past personal life than the average woman. The past matters when it comes to dealing with people. Do you think jobs forget about the felonies a person has because they are from 10 years ago? No and why should dating and relationships be any different. The person you are in the present is because of events in the past. Why be afraid of giving someone insight into what made you the person you are now? Love is acceptance and if a person cannot accept who you were and who you are now then they don't need to be in your life and they never truly loved or wanted you in their life. Being afraid to reveal your past says more about your character than it does other people. People will accept a lot of things but you have to be honest and give them a chance.

 

How would you feel about the revelation that the man you are with had sex with other men in the past? With a best friend of yours? Would you judge him for it? It's makes me wonder if any of you all truly know what love is. We all have preferences too and have to accept not everyone is going to want to be with us.

 

 

Subjects like this remind me of one truth. When it comes to men and women in regards to dating/relationships it's easier to lie than to be honest. It's easier to make the person you are now pretend to be the person you have always been. It's easy for the virgin to pretend to not be one until the actual moment. It's easy for the player to play the role to get what he wants. It's easy for the guy to lie about wanting a relationship to get sex. It's easy for the woman to lie wanting someone for them when she just wants money. Lying can be the path of least resistance. Honesty is the rocky road with bumps but leads to one of the greatest destinations. Every woman I have been with I have been honest about every aspect of my life. Is it so much to ask to get the same in return?

[KathyM]

Can you please post links to those studies?

 

 

Here is one:

 

 

Scientists Discover Gene Responsible for Cheating and Promiscuous Sex Habits - ABC News

 

 

There are other studies out there as well that link promiscuous behavior before marriage with a greater likelihood of infidelity after marriage.

[GoreSP]

Here is one:

 

 

Scientists Discover Gene Responsible for Cheating and Promiscuous Sex Habits - ABC News

 

 

There are other studies out there as well that link promiscuous behavior before marriage with a greater likelihood of infidelity after marriage.

 

 

The study identifies a gene responsible for reckless behavior (including but not limited to promiscuity and infidelity) but no where does it specifically say a person who is promiscuous is more likely to cheat. 25% of the people in the group that didn't have the gene reported promiscuity (which is important to consider in studies like this)

 

It was also conducted among young adults : average age of participants was 20/21 years old. Moreso, they interviewed only 181 people.

 

Straight from the actual study:

PLOS ONE: Associations between Dopamine D4 Receptor Gene Variation with Both Infidelity and Sexual Promiscuity

 

- As such, and as the first report of this association, it is important to recognize that alternative explanations remain possible and these findings should not be considered definitive at this point.

-Given general reasons to be cautious in behavioral genetic research and the inherently probabilistic relationship observed, we emphasize that it would be prudent to avoid premature and facile characterizations of the DRD4 VNTR polymorphism as “the promiscuity gene” or “the cheating gene.”

 

Journalists will say what will get people to read their articles.

 

I just sent an email to one of my university's sex researchers. Her main area of study is casual sex.

I'm looking forward to her response.

[ThaWholigan]

And what about if the woman were a drug dealer before he met her, but no longer is? Would he be wrong to decide that kind of past is not what he wants in a wife? What about if the woman had a history of cheating on a spouse? People seem to think the past should not matter at all when selecting a spouse, but the past reflects a person's values, character, choices, coping mechanisms, level of self control, level of functioning, etc. Maybe that person has changed or tried to change, maybe not. Many people are not willing to take the chance on someone who has shown serious poor judgment or poor behavior in the past. I had mentioned on another thread that my sister had married a man with a history of multiple divorces. He seemed to have learned from the mistakes he made in his prior marriages. He seemed to have a change of heart, and owned his part in the demise of his marriages. He kept up the role of good partner and good husband for the first five years of their marriage, but then reverted to the same poor choices and poor functioning that led to his prior marriages failing, and their marriage then failed. Should she have ignored the past, decided the past is the past, and gone through with the marriage anyway? He seemed to have a major change of heart and was currently behaving quite well. No, she was not wise to ignore the past, and she realizes that now. There is nothing wrong with taking a person's past into account when deciding whether the person would make a good life partner. My sister wishes that she had not brushed it aside. People have a right to choose what criteria are important to them in a life partner. This attitude that "you have no right to consider my past when choosing your life partner" is pretty ludicrous to me, as is the attitude that "you are wrong or an ass for deciding my poor choices in the past are not a good risk to take when choosing a life partner."

Don't really think that is the major issue here, only a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. Also, I doubt anyone will consider dating someone with a long history of infidelity - but promiscuity while single is more of a grey area.