Is the slut-shaming as bad as the male virgin shaming?

February 5, 2014

I'll tell you a story. My grandmother who is now 75 years old and she is married for 46 years told me that when she was getting married her old aunts were wishing her "good last years of your life" and she was confused cause it's certainly not a good wish for when you are getting married. She could never understand them anyway. But now that she's old and she needs attention, company and someone to care for her she appreciates and understands what these old ladies meant back then. Now she doesn't care about looks, sex, fun, she only cares to have someone to talk to, to take care of her, to feel secure with him. What I want to say is, yes, life is not easy and life for married people with kids is way harder. BUT it's worth it to invest to people in your life even with struggling so you get something later on. Being single and having fun and casual sex may sound enticing as you said and I bet most married people would like it. But we grow older, the importance of these superficial things fades and we come to the point where we understand that being loved and loving is the most important and vital thing in life. Nothing comes easy in life and I pity those who prefer to quit everything that makes them struggle than chase their dreams with the fear of being hurt or tired in the process.

It's easy to quote wisdom when you don't truly understand the struggle.

February 5, 2014

It's easy to quote wisdom when you don't truly understand the struggle.

What I know for a fact is that everything can be fixed in our lives except for death. So unless you are talking about a life or death situation, no, I don't understand the struggle. Don't you think life is all about struggle after all? Easy is the way to live your life without struggling and just having fun, that's easy.

February 5, 2014

What I know for a fact is that everything can be fixed in our lives except for death. So unless you are talking about a life or death situation, no, I don't understand the struggle. Don't you think life is all about struggle after all? Easy is the way to live your life without struggling and just having fun, that's easy.

You don't get it. It's ok

February 5, 2014

I'll tell you a story. My grandmother who is now 75 years old and she is married for 46 years told me that when she was getting married her old aunts were wishing her "good last years of your life" and she was confused cause it's certainly not a good wish for when you are getting married. She could never understand them anyway. But now that she's old and she needs attention, company and someone to care for her she appreciates and understands what these old ladies meant back then. Now she doesn't care about looks, sex, fun, she only cares to have someone to talk to, to take care of her, to feel secure with him. What I want to say is, yes, life is not easy and life for married people with kids is way harder. BUT it's worth it to invest to people in your life even with struggling so you get something later on. Being single and having fun and casual sex may sound enticing as you said and I bet most married people would like it. But we grow older, the importance of these superficial things fades and we come to the point where we understand that being loved and loving is the most important and vital thing in life. Nothing comes easy in life and I pity those who prefer to quit everything that makes them struggle than chase their dreams with the fear of being hurt or tired in the process.

Cute story. But I don't get how it's relevant to this thread?

February 5, 2014

Cute story. But I don't get how it's relevant to this thread?

We were talking about players having a better life than married men with kids. Or so I remember.

February 5, 2014

In addition to that, the word slut has been thrown too much for nearly everything in an insulting way. I was even called that once on the bodybuilding.com site by someone who was a virgin-chaser, only for merely pointing out that there was nothing wrong with a woman that gets into a relationship and breaks up if it doesn't work out but is seeking for another relationship. That member was the typical player but obsessed with female virginity and already 25 years old, now that is creepy to me. He didn't even had the nerve to at least reply in a decent manner on the post. Instead, he tried to take points away from my reputation system (which didn't work out and I still have many points) and on my personal profile write a ''Stfu, you sloot''. Basically, a woman can't even get into a relationship because she now has to keep worrying if it's going to work out and if she'll end up getting married to him or not; or break up and still have to be called slut by certain men who aren't even virgins themselves. And you really think that's fair at all?

People like the guy who insulted you on the bodybuilding forum aren't about fairness. I mean, they might start bleating on about injustice when they feel treated unfairly themselves - but other people being treated unfairly isn't going to bother them. When somebody not only employs double standards but revels in their employment of double standards, reasoning with them is a total waste of time. You can only reason with somebody if you both start from the position that fairness for everybody involved is a goal.

Yet the irony is those very same male posters would not last for too long if they run into a devoted religious woman saving herself for marriage. I've seen a guy posting this about his gf and the male posters asking for nice, decent girls (even the ones into female virginity) were advising him to break up and smash sloots. So which one is it?? Seems they don't like anything.

I've seen the kind of environment. Generally there's a view that all women are sluts and that if she isn't being a slut for you she's being a slut for somebody else. When they're not posting there, they're probably posting on conspiracy theory sites about shapeshifting lizards running the world.

February 5, 2014

Most people (both men and women) would rather have someone they actually care about to share their life with, rather than going from one meaningless encounter to the next. Which is why they get married or couple up with someone. The lifestyle of pumping and dumping or being pumped and dumped is not appealing to most people. Maybe to a certain segment of young and immature men, but not to most men, and certainly not to women.

February 5, 2014

We were talking about players having a better life than married men with kids. Or so I remember.

from what I got, we were talking about lonely men watching players and envying their lives...

February 5, 2014

Most people (both men and women) would rather have someone they actually care about to share their life with, rather than going from one meaningless encounter to the next. Which is why they get married or couple up with someone. The lifestyle of pumping and dumping or being pumped and dumped is not appealing to most people. Maybe to a certain segment of young and immature men, but not to most men, and certainly not to women.

Some people aren't so lucky as to find this person in their early twenties and most of them choose not to be celibate for 5-10 years before this encounter happens.

It has nothing to do with pumping and dumping/being dumped. It's recognizing certain needs and taking the steps to meet them.

No harm done when both partners are on the same page.

February 5, 2014

Also, I am still talking with the sex researcher I contacted and asked her if she knew of a studythat supports the premise that a person having casual sex when single is more like to cheat on their partner.

Here is her answer:

Hi,

I think you are looking for a cause and effect that is much more complex than that.

Also, I don’t know of research that supports that.

Best,
-Jocelyn

Her Masters thesis was on highly sexual women and her PhD research is oriented towards casual sex. I think that if there were such studies, she would know.

February 5, 2014

It is true that if a guy is a virgin even in his teens it severely lowers has dating pool.

That's a very good point though I don't think it's a cause and effect type thing.

Women aren't turning down guys because they specifically know the guy is a virgin.

But being an older virgin 20+, is usually a sign of being turned down by women.

If a guy is a virgin at that age, it most likely means that he's never been in a relationship and doesn't have a clue how women work or how to attract them.

The older women get, the less likely they are to tolerate men who don't know what they are doing.

I'd say I was an unofficial virgin till 31 when I got my first girlfriend. I learned more about women in those six months that I was with her, than I have in my entire life before I started dating her.

Where I lucked out was her being 20 when we first got together, and that meant she expected a lot less out of a guy than somebody who is 25+ would have.

February 5, 2014

from what I got, we were talking about lonely men watching players and envying their lives...

Yes maybe that. But now I'm confused hehe. Anyway even a lonely man will have the chance to find a good person and have family etc, when a player will always be only that: the chaser of the eternal satisfaction in various women.

February 5, 2014

I agree with your posts here but as a guy I can't understand how women could be more tolerant.I mean I've seen it I just can't figure it out.Say a virgin female (or a low count one) that doesn't have a problem with the man's past(rather a lewd one) but to many guys including myself the girl's past does matter.

Could it be that the girl isn't a virgin or a low count herself thus being tolerant?Manipulative perhaps?That's the only reason that comes to my mind.

Women are genetically different than males. As a general rule the thinking process is different. That is why in the vast majority of polygamous relationships it is one male and multiple women even in western culture where women have a right and choose to be in those relationships. It is biological.

I think as a rule past behavior doesn't plague us as bad. No over inflated male ego to deal with there.

But in a relationship and actions done directly to us? I think it does level out a little more.

February 5, 2014

Most people (both men and women) would rather have someone they actually care about to share their life with, rather than going from one meaningless encounter to the next. Which is why they get married or couple up with someone. The lifestyle of pumping and dumping or being pumped and dumped is not appealing to most people. Maybe to a certain segment of young and immature men, but not to most men, and certainly not to women.

I do think this is true, even if someone goes through an unfortunate "phase." The people I know who did the casual sex thing will admit that it was empty and unfulfilling and they tend to regret it. My BFF who has been married 25 years deeply regretted her "phase" in late high school and college. She really struggled with whether or not she was good enough for her current husband, and they talked about it a lot. He eventually told her that in his mind, if, after her conversion, the only sinless Man to ever walk saw her as perfect in Him, who was he - a mere man - to see her as unworthy? Not everyone can make that distinction, and honestly, if they can;t then they DON'T need to marry someone with a less than spotless past because it will come through every day, and who wants to live in that?

February 5, 2014

Yes maybe that. But now I'm confused hehe. Anyway even a lonely man will have the chance to find a good person and have family etc, when a player will always be only that: the chaser of the eternal satisfaction in various women.

Actually both statements are partially wrong. Lonely men usually stay lonely until a woman takes that risk in being with him. Virginal men are usually like college students looking for entry level work in the field they have a degree in. Most jobs want someone with experience and are afraid to take in someone with no experience because they are either fearful once they have the experience they would leave or not wanting to use the resources to train someone inexperienced.

For some guys dating is an evolution and being a player is a part of that. Notice that I said some guys not all so don't go all dramatic

February 5, 2014

Yes maybe that. But now I'm confused hehe. Anyway even a lonely man will have the chance to find a good person and have family etc, when a player will always be only that: the chaser of the eternal satisfaction in various women.

Finding a good person and having a family doesn't mean that you will automatically have the quality of intimacy that you would have if you could attract women for no-strings sex. I imagine that the latter is much more intense and satisfying. That's one thing that has always confused me. If I'm good enough for a lifelong relationship, why wouldn't I be good enough for a ONS or FWB?

As a low-count male, I'm sensitive to posts like "I don't want to have to train him" or "experience is necessary for a guy to be good in bed", but all in all, "slut-shaming" is probably a little worse because of the hypocrisy of high-count guys "shaming" lower-count women for having casual sex. I don't get that. Of course, I also don't like what I see on LS about how low-count guys should automatically accept their high-count partners' pasts. No judging is necessary -- everybody has limits on what life experience disparity they want there to be between themselves and their partners.

February 5, 2014

Actually both statements are partially wrong. Lonely men usually stay lonely until a woman takes that risk in being with him. Virginal men are usually like college students looking for entry level work in the field they have a degree in. Most jobs want someone with experience and are afraid to take in someone with no experience because they are either fearful once they have the experience they would leave or not wanting to use the resources to train someone inexperienced.

For some guys dating is an evolution and being a player is a part of that. Notice that I said some guys not all so don't go all dramatic

Yup, that's pretty much what I said in my previous post.

And for some men, it can be a very long time till a woman is willing to take that risk.

A big part of it is luck. And luck breaks down even more to seeing opportunities and knowing what to do with them. Most guys who are inexperienced don't know what to do with the opportunities they are given, if he even recognizes the opportunity.

February 5, 2014

Women are genetically different than males. As a general rule the thinking process is different. That is why in the vast majority of polygamous relationships it is one male and multiple women even in western culture where women have a right and choose to be in those relationships. It is biological.

I think as a rule past behavior doesn't plague us as bad. No over inflated male ego to deal with there.

But in a relationship and actions done directly to us? I think it does level out a little more.

You do have a point with a male and multiple female partners.

But isn't what you're doing is simply a reward to those "players" out there?You're sending the message that guys can get into double digits with women and still at the end of their quest(if there's one for some) they can get the much less experienced or virgin female?

February 5, 2014

Yup, that's pretty much what I said in my previous post.

And for some men, it can be a very long time till a woman is willing to take that risk.

A big part of it is luck. And luck breaks down even more to seeing opportunities and knowing what to do with them. Most guys who are inexperienced don't know what to do with the opportunities they are given, if he even recognizes the opportunity.

Women don't get this. When you think about it women want experience but men don't want a woman with too much experience. It's just their preference just like some don't like people shorter than them or nice guys or anything they deem as unattractive. As for insults women should really examine the struggles of lovable losers and a slut doesn't compare to the humiliation these guys get all the time. I'd rather be a slutty woman than a inexperienced guy because at least the women get some validation of their existence

February 5, 2014

As a low-count male, I'm sensitive to posts like "I don't want to have to train him" or "experience is necessary for a guy to be good in bed", but all in all, "slut-shaming" is probably a little worse because of the hypocrisy of high-count guys "shaming" lower-count women for having casual sex. I don't get that. Of course, I also don't like what I see on LS about how low-count guys should automatically accept their high-count partners' pasts. No judging is necessary -- everybody has limits on what life experience disparity they want there to be between themselves and their partners.

It's a preference. We all want what we want in a partner. Let's be honest guys can be assh*les and who would want to run the risk of being out and having some jerk remind you of having had your woman or even talking about how they ran a train on your girlfriend. It doesn't happen a whole lot but I have seen it in person and to the guy it happened to it was a huge blow to his ego. It would be different if he knew about it and was accepting of it but 9 times out of 10 women will keep it secret but would be mad as hell if the situation was reversed

February 6, 2014

As a low-count male, I'm sensitive to posts like "I don't want to have to train him" or "experience is necessary for a guy to be good in bed", but all in all, "slut-shaming" is probably a little worse because of the hypocrisy of high-count guys "shaming" lower-count women for having casual sex. I don't get that. Of course, I also don't like what I see on LS about how low-count guys should automatically accept their high-count partners' pasts. No judging is necessary -- everybody has limits on what life experience disparity they want there to be between themselves and their partners.

I swear you guys are so hard to find. That's part of the reason I've been single for years and my number staying at 1.

February 6, 2014

I've seen the kind of environment. Generally there's a view that all women are sluts and that if she isn't being a slut for you she's being a slut for somebody else. When they're not posting there, they're probably posting on conspiracy theory sites about shapeshifting lizards running the world.

Yet, this thread on that site makes me feel so sad. That site can make any woman give up on finding decent men and continue going single for more years. That's why I'd rather have a career and own a business than deal with those types of dramas and BS.

GF won't have sex with me. She is a virgin. Been dating 2 months. Serious. Thoughts? - Bodybuilding.com Forums

When I was a virgin, it took me nearly 5 months to give it up and that's because I wanted it. LOL.... like a virgin girl is suppose to be ready in 2 months to go through the pain and OMG if my then ex bf would have referred to me as wifey material or tried giving me ultimatums as certain posters suggested, I would be so turned off and perhaps dumped him.

Edited February 6, 2014 by samsungxoxo

February 6, 2014

Some people aren't so lucky as to find this person in their early twenties and most of them choose not to be celibate for 5-10 years before this encounter happens.

It has nothing to do with pumping and dumping/being dumped. It's recognizing certain needs and taking the steps to meet them.
No harm done when both partners are on the same page.

I realize some people don't find a relationship partner early on. My comment was countering prior statements on the thread that implied that men in general, even married men, wish they had a player lifestyle, which is usually not the case. Most men do want a relationship, rather than meaningless sex with randoms they don't care about.

February 6, 2014

Also, I am still talking with the sex researcher I contacted and asked her if she knew of a studythat supports the premise that a person having casual sex when single is more like to cheat on their partner.

Here is her answer:

Her Masters thesis was on highly sexual women and her PhD research is oriented towards casual sex. I think that if there were such studies, she would know.

Your second-hand information from a third party that is unsubstantiated really has no validity. I posted two studies here, not to mention many other studies cited, which demonstrates that both promiscuity and infidelity are associated with the same personality traits. Unless you can actually post peer reviewed studies with an even greater sample population than what I posted to refute what those studies said, I'll believe the studies I've read. What your source says cannot be believed. It's just heresay, and has no validity.

February 6, 2014

Well, I think we're long after the time when men would take their sons to brothels to have them 'taught the way of loving a woman', so I don't mind the thought of a guy being a virgin at all. It's not as if education about sex or 'educational movies' are that hard to come by, especially in the internet.

But yeah, I would prefer people to stay out of the sexual history of someone as well. Had my first kiss on stage just 2 weeks ago so I guess I should have expected everyone to be all like "Yeah gurl, finalleh!" since I'm almost 18, but I know for sure that the 'first time' will happen behind closed doors. I'm rather the discreet type and this being totally out of character for me was somewhat weird enough the next day, but the thought of having people ask me about how my first time was like is just... not nice.

By the way Editbee, I've read your post about your meetup with your ex in September and I must say he must be really desperate. True, what a shame he didn't realize what you're really like instead of cheating on you. Being cheated on this greatly 2 years later by his fiance must have really gotten to him.

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Is the slut-shaming as bad as the male virgin shaming?

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