Why Men Cheat [article]

[nescafe1982]

And anyone who has take a Soc 101 course in college knows you have to have a sample size of at least 1000 in order to get a scientifically sound result (e.g. where outliers won't screw with the results in a statistically significant way).

 

That's the magic number... 1000. Not 100.

 

This author must have "attended" a degree mill online.

[Zeroes]

I really can't stand people who try to justify cheating through using pseudo-science, warped statistics or blaming societal values. It's all rubbish.

 

If you live in a Western country then there is NO legal or even a social requirement to enter a monogamous relationship/marriage before you can have sex with them. You can stay single and "play the field" to your heart's content. Plenty of people do. No one really cares. In fact even if you're in a relationship or marriage some couples consent to having an open relationship, and that's fine.

 

The real issue is the deceit and cowardice. Obviously there is a problem in the relationship if you want to cheat, but cheaters are too gutless to bring it up with/leave their partner, whether it is because they're losing attraction, unhappy or fancy someone else. There is also a large degree of recklessness and selfishness, if a married man is out seeing other women/visiting prostitutes then he risks picking up a STD and passing it on to his wife without her knowledge and in some cases putting the health of any more kids they have at risk. Cheaters are utter scum IMO.

[Morgoth]

My issue is not with people sleeping around. My issue is with people who are involved in an affair when one or both of the partners is married. [The wh****g around refers to ANYONE (man or woman) who is a party in an affair]. The DECEIT is the issue - not the SEX. Do you seriously not understand that???? I suppose that there are people who are okay with their partners lying to them and deceiving them about their fidelity - I am just not one of those people. I deal with people honestly, and I ask for the same in return.

 

And the sociologist?? That's laughable. You can pull a dozen lists of occupations most likely to cheat (statistically) and psychologist/psychiatrist/sociologist will be on every list. I will hold my opinion on what I think about the people I personally know who are in those professions.

 

Obviously, I cannot provide "data" to support my moral position. IMO, a person either has character and a moral code, or he/she does not. It's really that simple.

 

The interesting thing is that when you look at larger samples its the same out come, the author said so and there are plenty of studies. The real numbers of men and women that "cheat" are about 45% for each gender. You can laugh all you want. Since you are "moral" I suppose, there are life circumstances that preclude blowing everything uo in your life to get what you need. You have one life, and if you choose to deny yourself, that is your business. I suppose you have a graduate level education??

Edited January 17, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Morgoth]

I really can't stand people who try to justify cheating through using pseudo-science, warped statistics or blaming societal values. It's all rubbish.

 

If you live in a Western country then there is NO legal or even a social requirement to enter a monogamous relationship/marriage before you can have sex with them. You can stay single and "play the field" to your heart's content. Plenty of people do. No one really cares. In fact even if you're in a relationship or marriage some couples consent to having an open relationship, and that's fine.

 

The real issue is the deceit and cowardice. Obviously there is a problem in the relationship if you want to cheat, but cheaters are too gutless to bring it up with/leave their partner, whether it is because they're losing attraction, unhappy or fancy someone else. There is also a large degree of recklessness and selfishness, if a married man is out seeing other women/visiting prostitutes then he risks picking up a STD and passing it on to his wife without her knowledge and in some cases putting the health of any more kids they have at risk. Cheaters are utter scum IMO.

 

I would say that each circumstance is different. Should a partner give half their assets to another partner who decided to stop having sex after however many years of marriage? Is that partner a gutless coward if he seeks a love and sex that he can't get at home? If a wife decides to gain 50 or 60 lbs and becomes disgustingly fat and unattractive, should the husband pay her to leave? Plus, in Western countries, family law is stacked against men, so we have to pay dearly, lose our families, etc to have a sex life. How high is the high horse you sit on? Some like to paint everyone with a broad brush on this site.

[Morgoth]

And anyone who has take a Soc 101 course in college knows you have to have a sample size of at least 1000 in order to get a scientifically sound result (e.g. where outliers won't screw with the results in a statistically significant way).

 

That's the magic number... 1000. Not 100.

 

This author must have "attended" a degree mill online.

 

How about posting your academic credentials? If you actuially read the article the interveiwer asked him about the sample size and he said it holds up even in larger samples.

[Robert Z]

Honestly, anymore I think the problem is the value we assign sex in our culture. It's seen as this sacred thing, and I don't necessarily think it needs to be.

 

 

 

Bingo! I think a lot of it comes back to Victorian morality and religious brainwashing, as well as too many romance novels and romantic movies. Our lives are guided by ancient traditions that predate the notion of washing our hands after using the toilet - and not traditions that are universal. I believe marriage is based largely on ancient Jewish Law.

 

 

I still remember a movie that I saw when I was young. The story was about a young woman's struggle with sexual pressure and her desire to preserve her virginity. The stigma attached to sex had her terrified of the actual deed. At the end of the movie she finally had sex, at which time she was asking, "Is that all there is to it? I went through all of this emotional trauma over this?". That is about all that I remember but I often think of that movie when I see discussions about sex.

[Zenstudent]

I would say that each circumstance is different. Should a partner give half their assets to another partner who decided to stop having sex after however many years of marriage? Is that partner a gutless coward if he seeks a love and sex that he can't get at home? If a wife decides to gain 50 or 60 lbs and becomes disgustingly fat and unattractive, should the husband pay her to leave? Plus, in Western countries, family law is stacked against men, so we have to pay dearly, lose our families, etc to have a sex life. How high is the high horse you sit on? Some like to paint everyone with a broad brush on this site.

Oranges to apples.

 

You can SEE the partner gaining weight. You can FEEL the sex being withheld etc. Infidelity is a secret and hidden betrayal, you can't deal with something you don't know about.

[Zenstudent]

The same reasons men do.

 

 

There's a lot of truth in the article, and it's annoying to see people just write it all off as "The only reason men cheat is that they're *******s". What it comes down to most of the time is "It was easier than the alternative". Why do we live in a world where that is the case? The system of monogamy we have in most cultures is a flawed one, and does not work for many people. But, like any system, god help you if you want to work outside it.

 

 

Honestly, anymore I think the problem is the value we assign sex in our culture. It's seen as this sacred thing, and I don't necessarily think it needs to be.

So, sex is better when it's more secret than sacred?

[Robert Z]

So, sex is better when it's more secret than sacred?

 

 

It only has to be secret because its "sacred".

[RedRobin]

Um, did anyone else note that this "researcher's" sample was comprised entirely of undergraduate college boys?

 

Yeah. That might say more than anything else about his "findings" on monogamy.

 

How many 18-22 year old frat boys do you find waxing poetic about wanting to sex up one woman for the rest of their lives?

 

 

Exactly. How many 18-22 year old men or women are capable of having difficult conversations about anything?

 

 

Of course it is easier for them to cheat. Especially if it means continuing to get things they want without consequence (or at least short term). Hell, that's practically the DEFINITION of being an 18-22 year old.

 

 

Selfish, short term thinking. lol. In my work with men and women this age, I'm often obliged to remind them that cheating on their papers and exams might end up with a life changing decision for them. They forget sometimes and go ahead anyway. I'm not about to let them cheat on their papers just because it is 'natural' for them to seek uncensored privilege at another's expense. I'm pretty proud of the fact that I seek to create situations that do not tempt them to do that either.

 

 

That this behavior is being projected as being scientifically relevant to all men is laughable.

[Ryan_Talon]

Your study includes just 120 undergraduate men, straight and gay; isn't that too small a sample to really know what's going on for men?

 

I think its that age not the sample size that makes me question this study.

Ask 120 college students how many would go travel the world tomorrow if they could and the percentage would be high, ask 120 45 year old men, settled in the career, with 3 children under 10, the same question and the percentage would be lower.

 

What people want changes through life, I think most women come to want monogamy younger than men. Its more unusual for a young lad to be firmly fixed on monogamy, but an awful lot of men, even if they strayed as kids come back to wanting a monogamous marriage and kids and everything that goes with.

 

How many men who have the 'family' and then have an affair regret it afterwards?

 

That doesn't make sense to Anderson, who wonders why we stigmatize someone who has a fling more than couples who divorce -- throwing away a marriage rich in history and love, upsetting their kids' lives -- over something like sex

Have you ever been cheated on?

When I was 22 my ex cheated on me, our relationship had been rocky for a while, we were on the verge of breaking up probably but her cheating - it devastated me!

I remember that hurt. I remember the way that changed my whole attitude to dating. And its that that would always stop me from cheating, I would never hurt someone the way she hurt me.

And If someone can shut there eyes to their an affair for the sake of there marriage history and kids then they posses something I sure don't

 

The fact of the matter is I do count! And I'm 100% monogamous. Its not about if she'd find out or how hot the girl is or the state of our relationship - its about the fact that I, have no desire to be with more than one girl.

Which is honourable but I would also point out that judging on previous threads I remember of yours, your "staying power" would appear to be above average to begin with

[Shepp]

That doesn't make sense to Anderson, who wonders why we stigmatize someone who has a fling more than couples who divorce -- throwing away a marriage rich in history and love, upsetting their kids' lives -- over something like sex.

And If someone can shut there eyes to their an affair for the sake of there marriage history and kids then they posses something I sure don't

But if your partner valued your rich marriage history and kids happiness they wouldn't gamble with it by cheating!

I couldn't stay holding everything up for someone who gambled so recklessly with it.

 

Which is honourable but I would also point out that judging on previous threads I remember of yours, your "staying power" would appear to be above average to begin with

I don't really know if that's a compliment or not? But it doesn't matter - loyalty is and will always be in my book a good thing.

 

It only has to be secret because its "sacred".

I was saying before about Beavers.

Beavers stay - they don't chop and change and flip and flop, they say, they are either wired or programmed, I don't know which "to stay" or to be monogamous because its the only way they can survive - if they were constantly chasing after new mates they would never be able to build a good dam and raise young beavers and the species would die out.

In species where both parents raise the young monogamity is survival. Humans don't need to be monogamous anymore - we don't have to have kids and we can raise them by ourselves, so people are free to make the choice not to settle down.

But that's where monogamity originates from - not from romance novels.

 

I suppose you have a graduate level education??

Graduate level education does nothing to teach right from wrong.

(although does lead article after article of elaborate "scientific" excuses for behaviour)

[Shepp]

Exactly. How many 18-22 year old men or women are capable of having difficult conversations about anything?

 

Of course it is easier for them to cheat. Especially if it means continuing to get things they want without consequence (or at least short term). Hell, that's practically the DEFINITION of being an 18-22 year old.

 

Ouch!!

 

 

No I do agree in principle that the "scientist" picked his sample to get the result he wanted, of course.

 

That said as a guy in that age group, I can tell you that not 78% of my friends in that age group have cheated so I still find the whole thing to be laughable.

[xxoo]

The author is a sociologist, perhaps a phD, a trained researcher and scholar and most likely extremely good with statistics and data sets.

 

Funny, she didn't list any of those credentials on her "about Michelle Langley" page. Probably because she's not trained at all.

[Shepp]

You have one life, and if you choose to deny yourself, that is your business.

 

Live it how you want, date around as much as you want - its your life. But don't marry and have kids unless you've specified an open relationship before hand. Then its not just your "one life" but your directly negatively impact and restricting other humans "one life"

 

 

Or is there's not as important as yours??

 

Is that partner a gutless coward if he seeks a love and sex that he can't get at home?

Dunno if he's a gutless coward or not but his actions are gutless

[yellowmaverick]

[personal details redacted]

 

You, like Morgoth, seem to be missing the real issue. I am not against someone having sex with as many partners as they choose - as long as they are honest about it up front. If my H had a "need" to screw a nasty side piece with herpes, he should not have gotten married and taken a vow of fidelity. The harm is in the deceit and lying.

Edited January 18, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[TaraMaiden]

I have said this, time and time again, in posts regarding Monogamy:

I really couldn't give a rat's behind if my H had the need to screw a different woman every day.

My objection would be the lies, deceit, subterfuge and betrayal of my Trust in him, to honour his promise to me.

[Morgoth]

Exactly. How many 18-22 year old men or women are capable of having difficult conversations about anything?

 

 

Of course it is easier for them to cheat. Especially if it means continuing to get things they want without consequence (or at least short term). Hell, that's practically the DEFINITION of being an 18-22 year old.

 

 

Selfish, short term thinking. lol. In my work with men and women this age, I'm often obliged to remind them that cheating on their papers and exams might end up with a life changing decision for them. They forget sometimes and go ahead anyway. I'm not about to let them cheat on their papers just because it is 'natural' for them to seek uncensored privilege at another's expense. I'm pretty proud of the fact that I seek to create situations that do not tempt them to do that either.

 

 

That this behavior is being projected as being scientifically relevant to all men is laughable.

 

I guess, Spitzer, the CIA director, Clinton, Scwartznaggar, and all the other high profile men, with everything to lose don't count. I love how people want to make the truth fit in their narrow view of the issue. At the end of the day, I would imagine that people are inclined to lie about their infidelities even on a blind, large survey. Especially women. No disrespect to you personally and thanks for sharing your opinion.

[JamesM]

Oranges to apples.

 

You can SEE the partner gaining weight. You can FEEL the sex being withheld etc. Infidelity is a secret and hidden betrayal, you can't deal with something you don't know about.

 

Yes, you can see all of these things happening before your eyes, but that doesn't change the fact...they are not the person you married.

 

And as you already know, divorcing because your partner gained weight or because sex is being withheld is much less acceptable than divorcing someone who cheated. Society supports the "victim" who has been betrayed by infidelity, but it would not support the person who has been betrayed by sexual withdrawal...which is also a form of infidelity.

 

The point is simply....the marriage vow can be broken in so many more ways that simply by infidelity. I am not saying that adultery is equal to all of the other forms of betrayal by far. It is the worst as far as pain and emotional pain.

 

Of course, there are many types of infidelity and just because it is happening and is unknown does not mean it is hurting the marriage.

[Morgoth]

I have said this, time and time again, in posts regarding Monogamy:

I really couldn't give a rat's behind if my H had the need to screw a different woman every day.

My objection would be the lies, deceit, subterfuge and betrayal of my Trust in him, to honour his promise to me.

 

Well I believe this issue was addressed. I do get off a bit on "pulling it off", however, telling my wife is committing financial family suicide.

[RedRobin]

Ouch!!

 

 

No I do agree in principle that the "scientist" picked his sample to get the result he wanted, of course.

 

That said as a guy in that age group, I can tell you that not 78% of my friends in that age group have cheated so I still find the whole thing to be laughable.

 

Ok, Shepp, don't take it personally.

 

I was in that age group once myself... I laugh at how self-centered and clueless I was then. Well, I don't always laugh. I hurt some people then too with my thoughtlessness. I had my one and only ONS during that period... Turns out that I really hurt him. Boy, did my friends let me have it! It's a lesson that has stuck with me ever since.

 

Yes, being selfish with short term thinking IS pretty much the hallmark of most youth. Of course, not all. But that is why we have adults around to help them out and guide them.

 

Doesn't sound like the originator of the article is much into responsible guidance. More like 'do whatever you feel like".

 

All the people I've ever met in open relationships had rules too. There are always rules. People who don't like rules don't seem like a good investment... at any age.

 

That's another thing... people in that age group are in a very dynamic period where they are just learning about what rules work for them or not...

 

There's just as high a likelihood that a portion of those 78% will see the damage they cause and not do it again... for them, it was a learning process and something to sort out. It would be very interesting if the person who wrote the article gets back in touch with these same men in 10 year intervals... and see how their perceptions and attitudes change.

Edited January 17, 2014 by RedRobin

[Shepp]

I love how people want to make the truth fit in their narrow view of the issue.

Ironic in light of the original article.

 

Ok, Shepp, don't take it personally.

No I was just kidding

I've known exactly what I wanted since I was 15, I couldn't be more happy with my relationship and there's no way I would ever cheat, not in a million years. But to want to be settled with 2.5month old twins at 20 is far from typical of my age group, I would never dispute that!

 

Doesn't sound like the originator of the article is much into responsible guidance. More like 'do whatever you feel like"

Totally.

Which is fine if your upfront about it. But he admits himself she gets off on the underhand nature of it.

Like I say I couldn't look the man in the mirror in the eyes but guess that's it - people tick differently.

 

It would be very interesting if the person who wrote the article gets back in touch with these same men in 10 year intervals... and see how their perceptions and attitudes change.

I agree. Or even mixed up his sample group and asked some fathers. How you can hold your kids in your arms and then go forth and throw away your family for a bit on the side....I don't know - I cant fathom it.

[JamesM]

That said as a guy in that age group, I can tell you that not 78% of my friends in that age group have cheated so I still find the whole thing to be laughable.

 

Dude, you should know by now that I respect you and your opinion and how you resolve to never cheat and all. I truly do. And it is very good that you choose friends who agree with you and keep you on the straight and narrow.

 

BUT... (you knew that was coming )

 

As a guy who could almost be your father, listen to me....

 

Seriously though, your group may not be a normal group just as my group then and now is not a diverse and normal group. I can say that almost 100% of the friends I grew up with are now married, never divorced, have children, and even a couple have grandchildren. Outwardly it appears that they have never cheated.

 

It also appears that they all have perfect marriages.

 

Point...I don't really know what their lives are like completely, but I do know that they are not a good sample to use for any survey. And just because my friends fit all of the above does not mean the majority of men my age would fit those percentages.

 

Hence, such an article may be laughable to my friends and I, but that does not mean it is not true in society as a whole.

 

Live it how you want, date around as much as you want - its your life. But don't marry and have kids unless you've specified an open relationship before hand. Then its not just your "one life" but your directly negatively impact and restricting other humans "one life"

 

 

Now I would have to agree with Red Robin....when I was your age, I would have agreed with you more. And while I applaud you still for your convictions and I hope they never change, my convictions and beliefs which in many ways parallel yours, are changed by time and experiences.

 

Marriage is a funny thing. It brings out both the best and worst in us. Things we never thought we would do, we do. Things we thought we would always do, we don't. It is rare that anyone begins a marriage thinking they will cheat. In fact, 99% of all newly weds would agree with you...yet many of them will cheat or divorce in a few years or in a decade or two.

 

We change and not always for the best. We grown and not always as we wish. The person we marry has a big influence on our growth or lack of growth...both good and bad.

 

So while I think infidelity is still wrong, I can be much more understanding of those who choose out of either desperation, frustration or foolishness to find sex elsewhere or who end up in the emotional arms of another person. It is not simple to leave a marriage due to problems by any means, but it is not always an easy choice or lack thereof to choose an affair. In fact, to that person it may not even have seemed like they chose but simply "fell into it."

 

The person we marry isn't always the same person we know twenty years later. And when there are children and responsibilities, divorce isn't an option and frustrations lead to stupid decisions. After those decisions are made and the fall out occurs (or even before it occurs), these individuals may regret the decisions. The strong learn from their bad choices. The "weak" keep making them.

 

That doesn't mean I think those stupid decisions are right or defensible. It simply means that I cannot sit in judgment above them and call them gutless or evil or simply label them as having a bad character.

 

I know now that I myself am no better despite not having made the same "evil" choices. I know that one day life may be different enough that it may be me. Knowing that, I take actions now to keep it from happening...and thus far am thankful that no person has presented herself as attractive enough in times when I am weak, to make me choose her over my wife.

 

Strong convictions are great. Strong morals are great. Strong empathy and understanding is also great...and IMO necessary.

Edited January 17, 2014 by JamesM

[Shepp]

Dude, you should know by now that I respect you and your opinion and how you resolve to never cheat and all. I truly do. And it is very good that you choose friends who agree with you and keep you on the straight and narrow.

- not that i'm saying I have no mates who've ever cheated - that's not the case, I have a few but it is the minority not 78%.

 

As a guy who could almost be your father, listen to me....

I'm listening...

 

Seriously though, your group may not be a normal group just as my group then and now is not a diverse and normal group.

I agree, I would never claim they are. Especially my most closest friends I grew up with, we're from a tiny tiny village everyone knows everyone - its a little old fashioned that way and i'd never claim that that reflects the masses.

Plus I think people do tend to model the behaviour of those there closest to, if your friends all cheat then yeah your less likely to see it as a massive deal and more likely to do it yourself. For me, the example in my life has always been the value of solid stable relationships and of family. My brother particularly he was with his wife since they were 13, she moved in with us when she was 16 I think, when he parents emigrated - as a young kid that was my example of relationships, not messing about and jumping from girl to girl but I would never claim that that was true for most lads my age

 

Marriage is a funny thing. It brings out both the best and worst in us. Things we never thought we would do, we do. Things we thought we would always do, we don't.

I don't deny that In any situation where your backs against the ropes that's where you strengths and weaknesses show.

 

It is rare that anyone begins a marriage thinking they will cheat. In fact, 99% of all newly weds would agree with you...yet many of them will cheat or divorce in a few years or in a decade or two.

I still believe too many think they won't cheat because of how 'in love they are' at that precise moment.

Although I wouldn't want to hurt my gf or my sons, and that's a big part of it but also I wouldn't cheat in a relationship for me. For the same reason i'd put a penalty kick wide when I knew that I hadn't deserved to have it awarded - I knew the b------ing i'd get from my coach, I knew the boo's i'd get from the crowd - but I had to do it for me, because I couldn't do it - I know you probably think that i'm self-righteous, im not, but...I believe in my own words and I'm proud of the decisions I've made in life, I feel good about them - I wouldn't throw that away for a goal we didn't deserve or for a bit on the side.

 

 

It is not simple to leave a marriage due to problems by any means, but it is not always an easy choice or lack thereof to choose an affair. In fact, to that person it may not even have seemed like they chose but simply "fell into it."

And I do appreciate that. But I don't feel like I have know idea or that being idealistic.

 

Its not like me and my girlfriend were loves young dream, we weren't! She had this I want you but I don't want to get into a relationship thing going on - she was taking home a different guy every Saturday night.

I, as a 16 and 17 year old guy, was being tipped to go places in the world of football - there's a lot of girls out there willing to throw themselves at a (decent enough looking - if I say so myself ) guy who might just make it into football.

It's not like we've always been perfect since we met and I never had cause to look anywhere else.

 

The person we marry isn't always the same person we know twenty years later. And when there are children and responsibilities, divorce isn't an option and frustrations lead to stupid decisions. After those decisions are made and the fall out occurs (or even before it occurs), these individuals may regret the decisions. The strong learn from their bad choices. The "weak" keep making them.

Right, but an affair is a gamble with divorce. Its likely to cause a divorce with the main difference being that you cheated before the divorce

 

That doesn't mean I think those stupid decisions are right or defensible. It simply means that I cannot sit in judgment above them and call them gutless or evil or simply label them as having a bad character.

No - and I don't label them as such, I wouldn't say that the person is gutless just the action.

 

Strong empathy and understanding is also great...and IMO necessary.

Right I agree, and maybe i'm found wanting there - because I don't claim to be perfect i'm far from it - And I do find it hard to understand.

[Shepp]

Even those who have made stupid decisions have something to teach us. Looking at those who have fallen and saying that "I would never do that" is not wise. They too would have said the same when standing at the point where you are.

I agree! It you can learn from the mistakes of others you don't have to make them yourself. I agree that others can teach you more on subjects like that than a degree ever could.

 

Comparing beavers to marriage and infidelity...somewhere that seems funny.

 

Mate - beavers have it sorted!! The whole deal!! We could all do with learning a little from beavers!!

Edited January 17, 2014 by Shepp