Wanting a large family

[ASG]

I didn't get braces or many of the other ridiculous "necessities" people are mentioning. My teeth are imperfect but functional and fine. If anybody judges me or doesn't like me because my teeth aren't perfectly straight and synthetically whitened, they can piss off.

 

I find the idea that only people with money for unnecessary luxury and cosmetic items should have children absolutely ridiculous - and frankly, offensive.

 

I like that the world has plenty of people in it who came from humble means and understand what the difference is between necessities and luxuries. I find that these people are often more empathetic to the plight of others than those who got whatever they wanted, and more appreciative of what they have.

 

I agree. My parents couldn't even afford a house when they had me and my brother. And we shared a room until we were pre teens.

We didn't have a computer, didn't get new clothes and took packed lunches to school.

 

Our family tutored us. It worked for the most part. My brother was never a good student, but it wasn't due to any disability. He just wasn't that interested. And that became really apparent when he got into high school and started doing what he liked and started getting As.

 

We *never* had babysitters. Seriously, no one that wasn't family ever looked after us(unless we went for sleepovers at friend's houses). My parents would either take us with them, if it was a house party, or not go, if it wasn't and our grandparents/aunt couldn't look after us.

[Radu]

I agree. My parents couldn't even afford a house when they had me and my brother. And we shared a room until we were pre teens.

We didn't have a computer, didn't get new clothes and took packed lunches to school.

 

Our family tutored us. It worked for the most part. My brother was never a good student, but it wasn't due to any disability. He just wasn't that interested. And that became really apparent when he got into high school and started doing what he liked and started getting As.

 

We *never* had babysitters. Seriously, no one that wasn't family ever looked after us(unless we went for sleepovers at friend's houses). My parents would either take us with them, if it was a house party, or not go, if it wasn't and our grandparents/aunt couldn't look after us.

 

You were describing pretty much my childhood.

3 room apartment [includes living room], i slept in the same room as my sister untill HS, packed lunches and staying at home alone untill 6 PM when my parents got home.

Both worked [dad was an engineer in a chemical plant and mom was a researcher in chemistry], and we had to deal with food before they got home [eating that was].

During summer vacations, i would try to cook; burned my first pan at 8, threw it out the window and recovered it before they came home.

 

My mom tutored us a bit, my sister really took to it and studied hard.

Me, not so much, though i did develop some interests in HS that i never went further into [i was a total dumbass, they would have played nicely on].

 

My grandma babysat until i was 5, then we went to live with her until i was 7.

After that, no babysitters.

[pink_sugar]

I didn't get braces or many of the other ridiculous "necessities" people are mentioning. My teeth are imperfect but functional and fine. If anybody judges me or doesn't like me because my teeth aren't perfectly straight and synthetically whitened, they can piss off.

 

I find the idea that only people with money for unnecessary luxury and cosmetic items should have children absolutely ridiculous - and frankly, offensive.

 

I like that the world has plenty of people in it who came from humble means and understand what the difference is between necessities and luxuries. I find that these people are often more empathetic to the plight of others than those who got whatever they wanted, and more appreciative of what they have.

 

For most people, it's more than just about your teeth being straight. For a lot of people, crooked teeth can lead to further issues down the road, especially if you have an underbite, overbite or your teeth don't align correctly. I know people who are middle aged with constant discomfort in their jaw that really wish they had gotten braces when they were younger. The joints in your jaw can wear out prematurely if you do not get an overbite or under bite corrected. So yes, wearing braces can be a medical necessity if you have issues with your teeth that are not just aesthetic.

[almond]

I personally don't count ADD as a learning disability.

It's either over-diagnosed, easily treatable, etc ...

 

Most kids that are tutored do not have a serious medical condition [like i said, ADD doesn't count].

 

With the great resource that the internet is, tutoring is less and less of a problem.

 

If you don't believe me, then look at the asian kids.

Why do they do so good in school [in general] ?

 

What you personally classify ADHD as is irrelevant. Also, I made no mention of it. Over-diagnosed? Yes. Easily treatable? Ha. If only.

 

Sure most children do not have a serious medical condition. But some do, and tutoring and extra assistance is hardly a luxury in these unfortunate circumstances. And stating that ADHD simply doesn't count as a condition just reeks of ignorance to be honest. We won't get into that here and derail the thread, but feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss further.

 

Regardless, many children do not learn well in a typical, one size fits all classroom model. Some have learning disabilities, whether you (with no professional knowledge) personally consider them an issue or not.

 

As I stated, if my child happened to have a learning disability or struggle at school, I would hate to call tutoring a luxury. I aim to provide whatever my child needs to have the best chance in life. If they want to pursue a particular career path, I would like to be able to help them do so in any way possible. If they require tutoring, I intend to have the means to pay for it.

 

Others may think differently, and that's fine. I aim to provide for my children in a certain way, and others have a different perspective on it all.

[almond]

For most people, it's more than just about your teeth being straight. For a lot of people, crooked teeth can lead to further issues down the road, especially if you have an underbite, overbite or your teeth don't align correctly. I know people who are middle aged with constant discomfort in their jaw that really wish they had gotten braces when they were younger. The joints in your jaw can wear out prematurely if you do not get an overbite or under bite corrected. So yes, wearing braces can be a medical necessity if you have issues with your teeth that are not just aesthetic.

 

Exactly. There are many instances where braces are truly necessary for oral health. Some teeth may simply be just a bit crooked, but in other instances, braces are required.

 

If your kid has totally bucked teeth that will cause serious issues down the line (not to mention the self-esteem issues that may arise), it would be horrible to not be able to pay for the necessary works.

[Eggplant]

"Poor kids go without some of those things?" What does that mean? You mention braces and reading glasses...I am confused as to why you mentioned this? Sure, some kids are underprivileged, but you mention it as though it's okay? Same with this statement of yours:

 

 

 

^ DO NOT have a child if you are in such a position. End of.

 

To address some of the other points in your post:

 

- Not all people have insurance of that level (to cover braces), and insurance does not cover it in all places.

- Breast milk is not always available, and I'm sorry, but if you cannot afford to pay to feed your baby formula (whether you can breast feed or not), then do not have one.

- Tutoring is a luxury? If you have a kid with a learning disability or similar, or a kid that struggles, I would cringe to call the extra assistance required for them a "luxury" and write it off so easily as you have done here.

First of all, a washing machine is a first-world luxury. The vast majority of the world washes clothing by hand. Having your own home is also a luxury. Apartments work just fine. Cars are also not life necessities. It's called public transportation. Americans are overly obsessed with teeth. It's nice to have straight teeth, it improves your quality of life, but dental health is mostly a luxury. Glasses, ok, those are pretty important. You need to see well enough to learn how to read. If your kid needs extra attention and help in school, you can help that child yourself.

 

Out of curiosity, what do you say to the vast majority of the world? Should they sterilize themselves so they don't have children, so that only first-world people get to have children?

[Leigh 87]

I didn't get braces or many of the other ridiculous "necessities" people are mentioning. My teeth are imperfect but functional and fine. If anybody judges me or doesn't like me because my teeth aren't perfectly straight and synthetically whitened, they can piss off.

 

I find the idea that only people with money for unnecessary luxury and cosmetic items should have children absolutely ridiculous - and frankly, offensive.

 

I like that the world has plenty of people in it who came from humble means and understand what the difference is between necessities and luxuries. I find that these people are often more empathetic to the plight of others than those who got whatever they wanted, and more appreciative of what they have.

 

 

 

I don't think braces are a ridiculous necessity.

 

I won't be having children unless I can afford them a palatable smile.

 

Sorry, but a mouth full of crooked teeth is a major turn off and if I had not had braces I would not have a dating life. Awfully crooked teeth is a legitimate worry and it is not trivial or petty; it is a real issue for kids with awfully crooked teeth.

[almond]

First of all, a washing machine is a first-world luxury. The vast majority of the world washes clothing by hand. Having your own home is also a luxury. Apartments work just fine. Cars are also not life necessities. It's called public transportation.

 

An apartment is a home. My response was in relation to your statement that you know families without a home, washing machine OR car ie. lacking all three. It didn't sound like you were referring to a family living in an apartment with money for public transport.

 

Americans are overly obsessed with teeth. It's nice to have straight teeth, it improves your quality of life, but dental health is mostly a luxury.

 

Dental health is not a luxury. It's health.

 

Glasses, ok, those are pretty important.

 

Indeed.

 

If your kid needs extra attention and help in school, you can help that child yourself.

 

Not always possible, especially if you're in a position where you have to work long hours or your child requires specialised assistance.

 

Out of curiosity, what do you say to the vast majority of the world? Should they sterilize themselves so they don't have children, so that only first-world people get to have children?

 

We're hardly talking about tribes in Borneo here. Life in developed countries as opposed to the developing is completely different. Here, we have all the opportunities to be able to provide all necessary healthcare and education for our children. A child without education over there is not as disadvantaged (in comparison to peers and quality of life) as a child here. The impact of most of the things we are discussing is completely different due to the vast social, economic and cultural differences. You cannot compare the two.

[Shepp]

It's all much of a muchness really - be it tutoring or braces or washing machines.

 

If you can afford everything you need to have a big family then knock yourself out, it's got nothing to do with anyone else!

Okay in some places to do that might need you to bring in 6 figures but in an awful lot of places it certainly wouldn't.

 

Wanting a large family in general, there's nothing wrong with that. And you'll find girls out there that want one too!

[Radu]

You don't get my post, it's ok, so i'll try to rephrase it.

Unless there is no other option than to go on medication, you generally don't desperately need a tutor.

Most of it could be solved with better discipline in the classroom or at home.

 

What you personally classify ADHD as is irrelevant. Also, I made no mention of it. Over-diagnosed? Yes. Easily treatable? Ha. If only.

 

Sure most children do not have a serious medical condition. But some do, and tutoring and extra assistance is hardly a luxury in these unfortunate circumstances. And stating that ADHD simply doesn't count as a condition just reeks of ignorance to be honest. We won't get into that here and derail the thread, but feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss further.

 

Regardless, many children do not learn well in a typical, one size fits all classroom model. Some have learning disabilities, whether you (with no professional knowledge) personally consider them an issue or not.

I may not have professional knowledge, but i did live my life until this age, and I looked around.

Most of the kids i grew up with ended up ok, most of them did good in life; i did not live in an upper class area, just your average working-class apartment complex with no ppl from the upper echelons of the leadership caste.

I ended up in my school because i lived in the area that was assigned to the school in question.

 

As I stated, if my child happened to have a learning disability or struggle at school, I would hate to call tutoring a luxury. I aim to provide whatever my child needs to have the best chance in life. If they want to pursue a particular career path, I would like to be able to help them do so in any way possible. If they require tutoring, I intend to have the means to pay for it.

 

Others may think differently, and that's fine. I aim to provide for my children in a certain way, and others have a different perspective on it all.

I sense a lot of emotion in your post, i don't know why that background is there but it is.

Try reading my OP again, it was directed at the average case, not the average case of a child with a learning disability, but the average child.

Notice the difference ?

 

Someone mentioned luxuries above, let's see what my generation grew with or without :

- we had a washing machine, and it was a luxury at the time, it costed 2-3 wages, and it was an old russian model [that would shock you when you touched it]

- we had no dishwasher until 20, and even today i don't like using one ... i'm just not used with it [i'm 30 now]

- no fabric softener [i love it though]

- no TV until i was 10; not anyone's choice, but TV was regimented, 2hs of TV per day in the evening to the entire nation [mostly parades], with 10min of russian cartoons on Sunday morning

- our first brand new car came when i was 15; before that we had SH cars, many quite old, because you had to wait 3-4yrs to buy one, and one would cost about the same as a home

- our first computer was in 1994, a Z80 copy

 

We did not have what ppl might call a hard life, and my parents were considered well off [being intellectuals and all that], that was pretty much the normal lifestyle of everyone involved.

 

PS: The one thing i wish we had, was better dental care.

I can see how damaging that can be long term now.

 

PPS: Interesting avatar.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Radu

[pink_sugar]

Cars are also not life necessities. It's called public transportation.

 

I actually do agree with this. My dad just earlier today said I absolutely NEED to have a car...no ands ifs or butts! He says I absolutely have to have a car although I'd fare just fine with public transit. I realize it isn't feasible in some areas, but where I live public transportation is readily accessible. I am unemployed right now btw and my first priority is getting a job.

 

Americans are overly obsessed with teeth. It's nice to have straight teeth, it improves your quality of life, but dental health is mostly a luxury. Glasses, ok, those are pretty important. You need to see well enough to learn how to read. If your kid needs extra attention and help in school, you can help that child yourself.

 

I think dental health seems to be underrated. A good example is that state medical benefits only cover medical and vision. I mean, crap, if they cover vision, dental should also be covered. I've had two root canals so far and need a third one. I'm in pain, because I do not have dental insurance at the moment and have to chew on one side of my mouth because my tooth is cracked and hurts when I chew. A lot of dental issues can lead to further health problems down the road if left untreated.

[almond]

You don't get my post, it's ok, so i'll try to rephrase it.

Unless there is no other option than to go on medication, you generally don't desperately need a tutor.

Most of it could be solved with better discipline in the classroom or at home.

 

I see. I re-read your post, and I'm still getting the same thing. My post mentioned children with learning disabilities and such, and the need for special care/tutoring in these circumstances. I'm sure any parent would want to be able to provide this should the need arise. Not sure why the ADHD thing was mentioned? You state that unless there is no other option and a child must be medicated, that a tutor is not desperately needed. Well, this isn't always the case, but you're acknowledging that tutors are sometimes desperately needed? If so, then we're on the same page

 

I may not have professional knowledge, but i did live my life until this age, and I looked around. Most of the kids i grew up with ended up ok, most of them did good in life; i did not live in an upper class area, just your average working-class apartment complex with no ppl from the upper echelons of the leadership caste.

I ended up in my school because i lived in the area that was assigned to the school in question.

 

You lacking professional knowledge was only mentioned in relation to your assertion that ADHD basically isn't real - I wasn't referring to anything else. And I'm sure plenty of kids you know did just fine - most do, thankfully

 

I sense a lot of emotion in your post, i don't know why that background is there but it is.

Try reading my OP again, it was directed at the average case, not the average case of a child with a learning disability, but the average child.

Notice the difference ?

 

I did read it again. You quoted a post of mine and responded, and in my post I was referring specifically to the chance that a child may have a learning disability or similar, and highlighting the need for special care and tutoring in these specific instances. So naturally, I assumed that your response had something to do with the post that you quoted. Of course I understand that the average child doesn't have severe difficulties. But some do, and the point I'm trying to get across is that you never know, and if you're in a poor financial position, a child with special needs could spell disaster.

 

I'm not sure what gave off the emotional vibe - this topic isn't of any particular interest to me...I guess it's just one of those ones that everyone has an opinion on, and they will all differ for various reasons.

 

PPS: Interesting avatar.

 

Ha, thanks

[Blade96]

But then I could as easily say that I think 1 child misses out on something money can't buy - siblings! and all experiences that gives them and things that teaches them, having siblings makes you a completely different person to the one you would of been without."

 

- People generally look at siblings as rainbows and unicorns. My father has no siblings because they pretty much sided with the one who tried to take their mother;'s house and land after she died, my dad fought his brother in court and won, they all sided with the brother and now my dad has no family.

 

My bio - brother and I are 5 years apart. We never really got along or really were friends, and then in Dec 2010 I who was never a baby person moved away from his 11 month old daughter because she wastoo close for my comfort. He flipped a lid, disowned me, and I have never seen him, his wife, who is just nuts as he is, or the daughter since. I am an only child and so is my dad.

 

As for wanting a large family - What I have said about siblings and the doses of reality that everyone else has said. And I have the risk of sounding condescending, because it is it really is (almost like a parent telling a childfree hey, I was like you once!) but my dad once said the same thing when he was young. A lot of kids. Then he had me and my bio - brother and realized two was enough

Edited January 25, 2014 by Blade96

[FitChick]

The grass is always greener. I come from a large family and always wished I was an only child.