Wanting a large family

[TaraMaiden]

Hahah made me laugh I might just!

 

 

 

Yeah I realise you don't have to pay it all at once it wasn't the totally figure over a lifetime it was the salary people reckon you need to be on, my folks never brought in anything like that! And we never missed out.

 

I get like the food and nappies, and clothes, and football boots and race suits all add up in the end but it's not like you ever have like massive bill (although like I say I appreciate in the states you have to pay health care and college which I guess does push it up a bit)

 

The issue of salaries has already been touched on... and a lot of people resent having to fork out taxes to keep families in the black through benefits, when occasionally, the pregnancy is a ruse to sponge off the system, or also occasionally, two dumbasses don't use protection then - whoops! hey, where did the dad disappear to??

[Shepp]

and a lot of people resent having to fork out taxes to keep families in the black through benefits, when occasionally, the pregnancy is a ruse to sponge off the system, or also occasionally, two dumbasses don't use protection then - whoops! hey, where did the dad disappear to??

 

I totally agree, if you can't afford to look after your family yourself as in your gonba need benifits, and you know it, then you shouldn't have them! You need to sort yourself out first! I totally agree.

 

But you don't need to bring in anything like 6 fixtures a year to be well clear of benifits and to have all the money you need to bring kids up well.

[pink_sugar]

Back when me and my gf were at an antenatal class, some women was commenting on the fact we were having twins blah blah blah and then she asked like "at least your done after this", to which my gf was like "no we want to have more" and she went "what about overpopulation"?? I do my bit with recycling - I seperate the cardboard from the rubbish and I wash the jars and bottles and but them in the blue bin...how much difference that makes to global warming I dunno, but I do care so I do it, plenty of people don't. And I don't waste water cause I don't want my great great grand kids to run out of the stuff, though other people have like two baths a day.

But to not have the family that I want, that I always wanted, to not bring my kids up they way I wanted to, to not have 2 or 3 more kids for the sake of the other 7billion people on the planet - step to far, that I won't do, its a very important issue sure but you get one life - its length isn't guaranteed, I think to not do with it what you want because of something like that, while other people go on regardless....I dunno, it would forever be a regret in my mind.

 

 

I agree!

6 figures to have a child!! The working class would die out if that happened! We never had anywhere close to 6 figures when I grew up and I had the very best childhood, there's not one thing I'd change, it was awesome!

 

In some places you do need a 6 figure income just to own a home and hence, have kids. Where I live, it's between 1500-2000 a month just for a one bedroom apartment. If you have kids on 40k a year here, you will be in poverty.

[Shepp]

In some places you do need a 6 figure income just to own a home and hence, have kids. Where I live, it's between 1500-2000 a month just for a one bedroom apartment. If you have kids on 40k a year here, you will be in poverty.

 

Jesus, that's crazy money!! damn!

 

Guess where you live does make a big difference!!

[TaraMaiden]

No schytt Sherlock....

[Ruby Slippers]

The figure is accurate.

you just don't notice it, because you don't have to fork it all out at once.... silly!!

The figure is baloney. I just did a quick calculation to figure out an approximation of what my parents spent on all their kids, and it's way less than $300,000 each. Half that or less.

 

And here I am as an adult, student loans paid in full, running a thriving, growing small business that provides jobs, a LOT of tax revenue, and even charitable contributions to my community.

[TaraMaiden]

It's a general more-or-less figure, and while it may be baloney in your case, that's not to say that others have that expenditure, once everything is taken into consideration.

And I mean - absolutely everything. From clothes to bus fares, to food snacks at school to the High School prom, to the loan of cash for a night out to the movies.

 

Every red cent.

 

Oh, and, while I admire your community spirit, I'm not sure what your point is....?

What you put back into a community, is of little relevance when you consider the expenditure from your parents was personal.

 

Norman Lamont (British MP and once Chancellor of the exchequer here in the UK - ie, he held the country's purse-strings for those who are not aware) once said, in an interview that, if every stay-at-home mum was paid a living wage for remaining at home and bringing up her children, the country would go bankrupt overnight, because, he said 'you simply cannot buy those skills'.

[Ruby Slippers]

Oh, and, while I admire your community spirit, I'm not sure what your point is....?

What you put back into a community, is of little relevance when you consider the expenditure from your parents was personal.

That was my retort to the accusations that large families will be a drain by claiming welfare benefits. My parents were never on welfare, and neither have I been - to the contrary, I (the product of a large family) have paid ample tax revenue (more than most as a business owner and employer), and voluntarily contribute to charitable causes. I'm the opposite of a drain on other taxpayers.

[TaraMaiden]

Oh, ok.

Gotcha.

 

Thank you.

[preraph]

I would find the cost of diapers alone to be out of the realm of possibility, much less all the rest. People don't "manage somehow." They amass debt. I don't know any parent who hasn't amassed tons of debt to be able to afford their 1 or two children, much less a half dozen. I wouldn't care if the world was a lonely place myself. At least then I might go out to a restaurant without it seeming like a daycare in there. People become trapped in bad marriages once they have kids because they don't see how they can leave. They overuse their moms and other relatives as babysitters, when those people had other plans for this time of their lives and thought they were done raising kids. They make the taxes high for everyone, more for those without children than those with children, so the government (at least in the US) can give them freebies. I'm paying for everyone's kids' insurance but haven't had my own insurance in 30 years. I do with people would mature enough to sit down and make a financial plan before they have kids at the very least. Those who love them and can support them by themselves, God bless 'em.

[pink_sugar]

I would find the cost of diapers alone to be out of the realm of possibility, much less all the rest. People don't "manage somehow." They amass debt. I don't know any parent who hasn't amassed tons of debt to be able to afford their 1 or two children, much less a half dozen. I wouldn't care if the world was a lonely place myself. At least then I might go out to a restaurant without it seeming like a daycare in there. People become trapped in bad marriages once they have kids because they don't see how they can leave. They overuse their moms and other relatives as babysitters, when those people had other plans for this time of their lives and thought they were done raising kids. They make the taxes high for everyone, more for those without children than those with children, so the government (at least in the US) can give them freebies. I'm paying for everyone's kids' insurance but haven't had my own insurance in 30 years. I do with people would mature enough to sit down and make a financial plan before they have kids at the very least. Those who love them and can support them by themselves, God bless 'em.

 

Yep and 200,000 back 20 years ago to raise a child....I'm not surprised the figure is close to 300,000 now with inflation and all. Like TM said, if you include everything....think of glasses, braces, tutoring, day care, diapers, formula etc etc. None of that stuff is cheap. Braces alone cost between 3k-6k per kid.

[almond]

Who costs out having kids ?

 

Anyone with a sense of responsibility and half a brain.

[Eggplant]

I would find the cost of diapers alone to be out of the realm of possibility, much less all the rest. People don't "manage somehow." They amass debt.

Honest question -- if diapers are so expensive, what about the cloth washable kind?

[Eggplant]

Do you also need the house, washing machine, life, car, etc ... or do you choose to keep them ?

I don't know what "life" means here, but I know families without a house, washing machine, or car.

[Eggplant]

Like TM said, if you include everything....think of glasses, braces, tutoring, day care, diapers, formula etc etc. None of that stuff is cheap. Braces alone cost between 3k-6k per kid.

Poor kids go without some of these things (braces, glasses). Insurance covers braces for children (at least my dental plan does). Formula can be replaced with free breast milk. Day care costs a lot. Diapers -- what about cloth??? Tutoring goes in the luxury category.

[almond]

Poor kids go without some of these things (braces, glasses). Insurance covers braces for children (at least my dental plan does). Formula can be replaced with free breast milk. Day care costs a lot. Diapers -- what about cloth??? Tutoring goes in the luxury category.

 

"Poor kids go without some of those things?" What does that mean? You mention braces and reading glasses...I am confused as to why you mentioned this? Sure, some kids are underprivileged, but you mention it as though it's okay? Same with this statement of yours:

 

I don't know what "life" means here, but I know families without a house, washing machine, or car.

 

^ DO NOT have a child if you are in such a position. End of.

 

To address some of the other points in your post:

 

- Not all people have insurance of that level (to cover braces), and insurance does not cover it in all places.

- Breast milk is not always available, and I'm sorry, but if you cannot afford to pay to feed your baby formula (whether you can breast feed or not), then do not have one.

- Tutoring is a luxury? If you have a kid with a learning disability or similar, or a kid that struggles, I would cringe to call the extra assistance required for them a "luxury" and write it off so easily as you have done here.

Edited January 23, 2014 by almond

[pink_sugar]

Poor kids go without some of these things (braces, glasses). Insurance covers braces for children (at least my dental plan does). Formula can be replaced with free breast milk. Day care costs a lot. Diapers -- what about cloth??? Tutoring goes in the luxury category.

 

If one cannot afford these things, they shouldn't have kids. My dad had to shell out 5k for my braces, so I'm sure whatever dental plan we had didn't cover anything.

 

As for tutoring, it's not a luxury. If your kid is really struggling in a subject, especially math or writing, it could really cost them down the road if they don't get the help they need. I was several subjects behind in grade school, had I not gotten tutoring or went to summer school, I probably would only have GED.

 

Having kids is no different than having an emergency fund. In this case, you need to be prepared for the what if scenarios. Just because some poor kids manage, doesn't mean anyone should rush into having kids without a second thought.

[Leigh 87]

I have gone over this countless times.

 

Yes, I have two children.

No, if I had my time again, I would probably never have had them.

Yes, I love them both and do not wish they'd never been born

And yes, I am saying I would certainly have given it a lot more thought than I did.

 

Any person has the right to have their opinions changed and their world-views altered.

Mine have done that.

I can't "undo" my girls.

And neither would I want to.

But If I'd known then, what I know now, I would in all probability not be a parent.

 

Does that answer your query?

 

 

 

My father said the same thing about having me.

 

He loves me to death, but even having had just ME, just the one child, it totally wipes you out financially.

 

He fell ill at 38. My mother had to then support us both.

 

Supporting just one child on a single income provides insurmountable challenges.

 

My dad says that he wouldn't have had a child had he known the full implications.

 

 

 

And I am an only child; thats absolutely ENOUGH of a financial drain UNLESS you earn 6 figures.

[Shepp]

Well then maybe that's a choice people need to make. A large family is perfectly viable and affordable if you live out of the most expensive regions.

 

Maybe I couldn't afford a big family if I lived in London city centre but that isn't the lifestyle I choose, I choose to live out in the country by the beach, I like to wake up and look out my windows at fields and lakes, and for entertainment I love a good BBQ, take the boat out or to take out the MTB (all free) and those choices make the want of a large family realistic.

My sister and her husband live in the centre of London, they have great jobs, they bring in 6 figures each, they have one child - they don't want a big family because they want to keep living in the city, and keep there jobs, and have super fancy holidays and go to posh restaurants.

 

I think any size family is a realistic desire if you also want the lifestyle that goes with, if your lifestyle/income/number of kids don't add up then yeah somethings got to give. But if OP or anyone else wants a large family then its totally viable providing you work hard and make choices to support it - one of which living in the right place.

 

Braces alone cost between 3k-6k per kid.

That's so much money! Braces are free here on the NHS.

Of course if you had to pay for health care then you really would have to consider the cost of kids - it wouldn't be fair to have a kid if you couldn't pay for glasses, braces, dentists, and doctors.

 

 

The other thing is though - it might be however many thousands to have a kid but its not that same cost per kid - siblings are cheaper, there's loads of things you don't buy x2 or x3 like high chairs, cots, toys, books, even school uniform and you get discounts of holidays and tourist attractions - its not the same price as raising 1 kid.

Hence why twins are more expensive than have two kids a year apart!

[Shepp]

And I am an only child; thats absolutely ENOUGH of a financial drain UNLESS you earn 6 figures.

But then I could as easily say that I think 1 child misses out on something money can't buy - siblings! and all experiences that gives them and things that teaches them, having siblings makes you a completely different person to the one you would of been without.

 

 

 

To me family is the most important thing in the world and money means very little - I don't have any wish to collect money, as long as I have enough to live, and if I get more i'll spend it - on my family, and on experiences, and fun things. Money sitting in a bank account doesn't hold much value in my eyes.........its all about choices really

 

_______________________________________________________________________

 

Also, as a side - like I say my folks brought in no where near 6 figures between them and I would never in a million years of describes us as poor - because we just weren't! We didn't go without anything! We never didn't get anything because we couldn't afford it - we always went on holiday, sure sometimes we went camping not to a five star resort but I LOVED it, id still choose camping over a five star resort now! We never went without necessities, or sports clubs and sports equipment.

 

Plus we understood about money and saving, we all got jobs in out teens, and worked to buy things we wanted we never sponged off out folks.

 

We were working class, sure. But not poor! There's a big difference!

Edited January 23, 2014 by Shepp

[ASG]

 

The other thing is though - it might be however many thousands to have a kid but its not that same cost per kid - siblings are cheaper, there's loads of things you don't buy x2 or x3 like high chairs, cots, toys, books, even school uniform and you get discounts of holidays and tourist attractions - its not the same price as raising 1 kid.

Hence why twins are more expensive than have two kids a year apart!

 

And don't forget clothes! My brother and I would get about 2 brand new outfits a year, during the winter and summer sale. All other clothes were hand me downs from family friends! Kids only fit into clothes for, at most, 1 year! So it's silly to BUY BUY BUY! Just borrow!

[Shepp]

Kids only fit into clothes for, at most, 1 year! So it's silly to BUY BUY BUY! Just borrow!

 

True!

My brother used to keep his clothes in good nick so I always got some of his better stuff when he outgrew it - I unfortunately used to go through clothes so quickly with mud & blood & grass stains, haha, so it didn't quite work out for my mum

[Ruby Slippers]

I didn't get braces or many of the other ridiculous "necessities" people are mentioning. My teeth are imperfect but functional and fine. If anybody judges me or doesn't like me because my teeth aren't perfectly straight and synthetically whitened, they can piss off.

 

I find the idea that only people with money for unnecessary luxury and cosmetic items should have children absolutely ridiculous - and frankly, offensive.

 

I like that the world has plenty of people in it who came from humble means and understand what the difference is between necessities and luxuries. I find that these people are often more empathetic to the plight of others than those who got whatever they wanted, and more appreciative of what they have.

[Radu]

- Tutoring is a luxury? If you have a kid with a learning disability or similar, or a kid that struggles, I would cringe to call the extra assistance required for them a "luxury" and write it off so easily as you have done here.

 

I personally don't count ADD as a learning disability.

It's either over-diagnosed, easily treatable, etc ...

 

Most kids that are tutored do not have a serious medical condition [like i said, ADD doesn't count].

 

With the great resource that the internet is, tutoring is less and less of a problem.

 

If you don't believe me, then look at the asian kids.

Why do they do so good in school [in general] ?

[Shepp]

My teeth are imperfect but functional and fine. If anybody judges me or doesn't like me because my teeth aren't perfectly straight and synthetically whitened, they can piss off.

 

Plus im guessing if you asked most people with a brother or sister if they'd rather have them or not have them and have braces - they'd pick there brother/sister.

Blood runs deep.