Ending on good terms and going NC

[Lois_Griffin]

I want him to say I'm staying because if he says that, what little feelings are left will die for me.

He was always staying. He can 'write' anything he wants in an email and 'say' anything he wants on the phone or when he's with you, but his actions have shown you loud and clear that he was always staying.

 

I'm so glad you've chosen not to waste another day enhancing someone ELSE'S life while getting precious little for your efforts.

[GirlStillStrong]

Thank you for posting your updates, thoughts, feelings, reports of what you are doing (dating), etc. I really need to read more of this sort of thing, to strengthen my resolve to go NC completely. My feelings for MM started fading quite a long time ago and I have tried so many times to break away from him. But he keeps coming around, weasling his way into my life under one pretense or another, buying me things I need, stuff like that. He shows up at my house acting like nothing has ever changed, like I've never said any of the things I've said to try to end it. He just ignores what I say I want (to move on with my life, etc) and lives in this fantasy world as though it is still week 5 of the affair. I'm not even attracted to him anymore. It's like being weighted down at the bottom of the ocean, or being trapped in a wooden box nailed shut, and there is no escape for me. Why do I allow men to control my life like this? I just want to be free.

[thecharade]

Once I tried to initiate NC, I didn't stop wanting it until it happened. You would not be doing it if it was not deep down what you want and need. Even if you slip a bit with a short message, you will put NC back in place because you know you need it.

 

I went through lots of anger. Until I let myself be angry, let myself see him as the person who could knowingly and selfishly hurt two women, I could not stay away from him. Once I saw how selfish he was, I no longer wanted him. I moved on, and from there I worked on my M, finally choosing to divorce. My MM is still lonely and struggling to figure his life out, and I am ok with not caring about that at all. The anger has gone away, and I find me thinking only about me.

 

This chapter in your life is closed. You may slip up a bit, but you will never come back again. You have clearly grown too much and the situation no longer fits. That's when these things finally end. He may move on to a new OW to fill his emptiness, but you will only pity her, not feel jealousy. I am three years done. No looking back. (We say Happy Birthday and Merry Christmas, though. Still . . . no desire to go back.)

 

Good luck!

[OWAmy]

I'm not a frequent poster. Im an OW but I add to this post as it's got everything in about my situation. It's kind of like a diary of how I progress, stay in limbo, regress etc. Behind the scenes I do lots of work on myself because this situation is not healthy.

 

So we had a recent period of no contact, so that my MM can concentrate on what's going on at home. Then he came back. There is obviously a lot of confusion for him as he contemplates what happens in his marriage - stay or leave. He has been very to the point in letting me know that I'm not involved in this equation. If he stays its because its the best thing for his marriage and family and if he leaves it's ditto. He's told me the bare bones of what has been discussed and I accept that his marriage is a separate entity. He is now in individual counselling whilst he makes that decision. He says if he leaves he would like to start a relationship with me. Meanwhile I repeat again and again that I will NOT be an affair partner again.

 

I have continuously for the last 8 months reiterated that I don't want to be in an affair any more and that we can't be friends either. I really opened up to him in the last few months about what I wanted in life and told him that I had always wanted to be with him, but never had the courage to tell him so. He has said that the difficult conversations began at home because of his fear of losing me from his life.

 

So here I am. Waiting until such time as a decision has been made. This is one of the few times that I have really felt like an OW. I won't resume physical contact or whisper sweet words in the interim.

 

I believe that what he says is happening is the truth. He says that he remained inactive because it was a comfortable situation he was in - marriage and the affair and he didn't need to change.

 

x

[RoseVille]

He has said that the difficult conversations began at home because of his fear of losing me from his life.

 

So here I am. Waiting until such time as a decision has been made.

 

Mine said the same thing about "tough conversations." And so I took a moment to pause. Let it be. Let it breathe. Open up and share my feelings, to make sure I put it all out on the table so that he knew everything he was working with.

 

And then his true colors came out, and I decided that the status quo, or deciding to wait for him to get his sh*t together, wasn't going to work for me.

 

I don't want to be his second choice. I just don't. I want the guy who'd move heaven and earth to be with me.

 

In my single, normal-relationship life, I'd NEVER wait for some guy if he told me he wants to try with some other chick, in the hopes it wouldn't work and we could be together. I understand affairs are a different breed, but I know that the end result would be the same - that I'd be the backup plan. Eff that noise.

[Hope Shimmers]

I think waiting is a mistake, just based on my experiences.

 

I also have had a hard time "ending on good terms" in my situations. The residual anger is there, and I doubt it will go away. What really sucks is when someone says they want to be with you, says all kinds of nice words, says "please wait for me" and then when you do, it all turns out to be a lie because men are too cowardly to actually make a decision and stick with it. I'm reminded of the other thread on here right now about telling men they need to grow a pair. Women are infinitely stronger than men.

[OWAmy]

Hi Rose,

 

Yes I understand what you are saying, but my MM never gave me any indication that things were not right at home. We never talked about it. We didn't talk about a lot of things until very recently.

 

Sometimes you have to see things through to their conclusion to truly move on from them. I wasn't ready before, but I have a young child and I have to improve my life for both our sakes.

 

I would never hate MM if he chooses to stay in his marriage and improve upon what he already has. I have felt defeated for years in the love stakes through my own poor choices. I hold myself accountable for those.

[RoseVille]

Hi Rose,

 

Yes I understand what you are saying, but my MM never gave me any indication that things were not right at home. We never talked about it. We didn't talk about a lot of things until very recently.

 

Sometimes you have to see things through to their conclusion to truly move on from them. I wasn't ready before, but I have a young child and I have to improve my life for both our sakes.

 

I would never hate MM if he chooses to stay in his marriage and improve upon what he already has. I have felt defeated for years in the love stakes through my own poor choices. I hold myself accountable for those.

 

How long though? How long will it take to "see things through"? He could continue having tough conversations at home and remain on the fence for the rest of his life... especially if he has any inking whatsoever that you're waiting.

[OWAmy]

I think waiting is a mistake, just based on my experiences.

 

I also have had a hard time "ending on good terms" in my situations. The residual anger is there, and I doubt it will go away. What really sucks is when someone says they want to be with you, says all kinds of nice words, says "please wait for me" and then when you do, it all turns out to be a lie because men are too cowardly to actually make a decision and stick with it. I'm reminded of the other thread on here right now about telling men they need to grow a pair. Women are infinitely stronger than men.

 

But he's not asking me to wait. I choose to wait, to see it out to its conclusion.

 

I don't think he's lying about conversations, going to a therapist etc...I think it's happening.

 

I don't think he will leave - where he was the catalyst for my relationship ending, I think my vanishing and terminating the affair was the catalyst for him doing something about his marriage....

[OWAmy]

How long though? How long will it take to "see things through"? He could continue having tough conversations at home and remain on the fence for the rest of his life... especially if he has any inking whatsoever that you're waiting.

 

He won't do that - trust me I'll be posting back her in the not too distant future.

 

I know you are looking out for me Rose - that you see similarities in your own circumstances and I get that it is frustrating when people post things like what I have posted and you think naive, don't believe it. I post here so people can see in one thread, one person's experience as an OW - the confusion, the contradictions

[RoseVille]

He won't do that - trust me I'll be posting back her in the not too distant future.

 

I know you are looking out for me Rose - that you see similarities in your own circumstances and I get that it is frustrating when people post things like what I have posted and you think naive, don't believe it. I post here so people can see in one thread, one person's experience as an OW - the confusion, the contradictions

 

I do hope you have an update very soon.

[OWAmy]

Thanks honey x

[minimariah]

dear Amy.

 

 

i actually think you should wait.

2 things will probably happen - he will either leave his M & start a new story with you... OR he will drag it all on & you'll finally get your much needed conclusion and leave. so... stick around and see what happens. DO NOT be an AP again & continue to live your life as best as you possibly can. i think you should give yourself and him this one last chance as some kind of closure of this A. it will either end or it will transform into something new.

 

may i ask -- did he address his M issues with you...? as in, did he tell you WHY did the A happen in the 1st place, what was missing from his relationship with the W?

[OWAmy]

dear Amy.

 

 

i actually think you should wait.

2 things will probably happen - he will either leave his M & start a new story with you... OR he will drag it all on & you'll finally get your much needed conclusion and leave. so... stick around and see what happens. DO NOT be an AP again & continue to live your life as best as you possibly can. i think you should give yourself and him this one last chance as some kind of closure of this A. it will either end or it will transform into something new.

 

may i ask -- did he address his M issues with you...? as in, did he tell you WHY did the A happen in the 1st place, what was missing from his relationship with the W?

 

Thanks - I have to see it out. I actually think that if he decides he's staying that he would tell me straight away.

 

I also think that he's going to have to ask for some zero contact time from me again. For the best I reckon - need to focus on the marriage of course and how can he do that if I am still around....

 

Oh god yes no way will I be an affair partner again. No, No, No. Some will say but you're still in an emotional affair. It doesn't feel like that to me.

 

He says there is lack of intimacy on both sides - not just talking about the physical side, also about being able to talk openly with one another.

[minimariah]

Oh god yes no way will I be an affair partner again. No, No, No. Some will say but you're still in an emotional affair. It doesn't feel like that to me.

 

you know, the fact that you stopped a PA is a big deal.

so congratulate yourself on that.

 

you live your life and let him to his thing. wait... but don't wait. LOL. as in, wait but don't stop your life while waiting... you know? maybe you could give yourself a timeline, a deadline. just your personal deadline. say a month. to see what exactly happened or changed and how you're feeling and what to do next.

 

of course, be careful. show him that while you WILL support him and want to be with him, you will also move on.

 

He says there is lack of intimacy on both sides - not just talking about the physical side, also about being able to talk openly with one another.

 

is his marriage a sexless one...? he doesn't sleep with his W at all?

(i'm being genuinely curious, not trying to intrude).

 

good luck and i too hope your positive update will come soon.

[OWAmy]

I am doing lots at the moment - working hard, in therapy, spending more time with my child. The last thing I want is to make life extra hard by letting other things fall by the wayside whilst I wait.

 

 

As far as I'm aware it's a sexless marriage and he said that at the outset when I was with my now ex-partner. Now I can believe in 'sexless' because I was in a 10yr relationship that also became sexless - and me not wanting to have sex with him and refusing him eventually caused our separation despite the fact that apart from that it was quite a good relationship.

[Babs22]

Amy,

Thank you for posting this thread and continuing to come back to update it. I have been in an A with a MM for 2.5 years, but I am also married (20 years). I feel that I may have to walk away from my A some day because I don't see my MM leaving his M, but right now, I cannot leave my M either. I almost ended my M a year and a half ago, but my son began having difficulty with mental illness. That was not the time to end my M and my son is still having difficulty, although we have finally made some progress with medications helping. I do believe that eventually my M will end. My H is very unhappy and I'm not happy either, but we stay for our son. At times I think it would be easier if I ended the A, but I haven't been able to do that. I am 95% sure that if I end it, my MM will stay in his marriage. My MM doesn't talk about his W much either. Every now and then he alludes to their difficulties, but I know for a fact it is not always bad. Their marriage was nearly sexless when we started. He would tell me that she "doesn't like me that way anymore" and seemed pretty sad. He would blame it on menopause. I suppose that is what my MM needed that was missing in his M. Other than that, and a few bumps in the road, I think he is okay in his M. They don't have any kids, but he has never alluded to leaving his W. Actually, he makes statements to the opposite, so it is pretty apparent, that even though my M has continued to crumble (the A actually sped that process up), his M will continue.

 

So, why do I stay? Currently, I am too weak to leave. I am getting closer to that point though, especially when I ask myself, what is the end game here? I can't see myself staying in an A forever, but I also cannot see myself with someone else. I simply don't get a strong feeling about people very often that they are the type of person I want to spend time with. I am rather picky I guess and not very trusting. Anyway, I will need to end my A at some point, but I do think I will end up living the last 20-30 years of my life being single. I am trying to wrap my head around if I am ok with that or not. I wish you luck with your MM, at least he is now seriously looking at his M. I can understand waiting a little while to see what his decision is. I admit, that would give you some definite closure one way or another. Keep coming back to post.

[bambiwboone]

It would be lovely to be able to be on good terms and move on. Have you ever heard the quote, "[COLOR=#6a6a6a]If two[/COLOR] past [COLOR=#6a6a6a]lovers can remain friends[/COLOR], its either they are still in love, or never were." That is where I fall with that. I find myself going crazy when we play friends. I do much better after our fall outs. I start to heal as we are blocked away from each other. Contact provides hope and hope is a double edged sword.

[OWAmy]

It would be lovely to be able to be on good terms and move on. Have you ever heard the quote, "[COLOR=#6a6a6a]If two[/COLOR] past [COLOR=#6a6a6a]lovers can remain friends[/COLOR], its either they are still in love, or never were." That is where I fall with that. I find myself going crazy when we play friends. I do much better after our fall outs. I start to heal as we are blocked away from each other. Contact provides hope and hope is a double edged sword.

 

Well, I am still friends with one of my exes (a relationship, not an affair) and there was a time when we were very much in love. It is several years since we broke up and we just moved on from the relationship into friendship.

 

If my MM returns and says that he is staying with his wife then I would not have any further contact with him. It would be absolutely 'done'. The end. The scariest part is the finality of it all. Makes me adamant that I'm never going to find myself on this path again. Why have people in your life that you are going to have to say goodbye to. So tragic!

 

When he returned after NC I can't say that I had hope of being together. I didn't really know why we were back in contact as I knew I wouldn't resume the affair and I think he finally got the message. It was just comforting I guess to be in contact again and not having any of the affair speak. I think now he sees me as a real person rather than some fantasy figure but ours has been a long journey that has lasted many years now and whilst his life has not changed a great deal - mine has and the affair aside, in a lot of good ways

 

I struggle to remember what no contact for the four months was like, but I do know that life continued and I smiled, laughed and there were happy times. The key is to keep moving with your own life and do things even if you don't feel like doing them. I have grown as a person whilst in the affair - me and him we are 'stuck' at the moment but my life does not revolve around him so I change the things I can and know that soon I will be 'unstuck' one way or another.

[OWAmy]

I'm not sure I want to wait. I don't think I can. I think I am too keen to get on with my life. In the last few months after many years of being single I had started to think about the possibility of meeting someone and having a proper relationship. I had not been ready up until then. Now I feel this has been taken from me.

 

I won't lie ... there is a thought lurking - usually when I do not hear from him that he has no intention of leaving and all this talk is to keep me hanging around.

 

I am in a serious quandary - if I have the balls to leave again and initiate no contact, that months down the line he will try and re-enter my life (I have a business so can't change my number). If I hold out for a 'staying' or 'leaving' I know if he 'stays' that will be sufficient to get me moving on.

 

I am scared ... feel like I am waiting on a communication that says 'I'm staying and this is why...' something that will sicken me to to the pit of my stomach.

 

There is also another voice that says...you don't really want him any way and that's the worst one.

 

Ugggh

[OWAmy]

Therapy has been going well since I last posted. More honest communications with the MM - being totally upfront with him is a good thing for me - if you take the affair out of the equation I have always struggled saying what I want out of a relationship. Regardless as to what happens between me and him I feel this new found honesty has boosted my confidence in asking for what I want and not been afraid to ask - something that I can take forward into any future relationship.

 

One thing I have always concentrated on is the bigger picture 'what got me into this affair in the first place'. I knew I needed to figure that out the most. When I originally started out questioning 18 months ago I thought I knew the answer - attraction to unavailable men, BUT this almost created false memories because I since discovered that up until 10yrs ago my relationships had been relatively healthy. Guess who turned out to be the emotionally unavailable one in the past? Me!

 

Approximately 10yrs ago I had an abortion. I wanted to keep the baby but the father didn't want to so we booked into the clinic and I went ahead with it in a daze. I put up zero fight and I had no voice, but knowing all the while that this was the worst outcome for me. I remember later that day counting out half the money for the procedure on the bed and catching sight of myself in the mirror and staring at my reflection thinking what have I done. He witnessed this and I recall him saying 'you are not in this alone'. But I was. That image haunted me for years. I called it 'the moment of truth in the mirror of shame'. We broke up several months after that when I discovered he had been cheating on me. I found love letters and photographs of him holding his MOW's child's tiny child's hand and it broke me. I left that day small and defeated and have never seen or heard from him since. To cope I withdrew and detached and compartmentalised the abortion and him to such an extent that it was like it never existed. I always knew that I would never get over it until I had a child. My ex partner came back into my life but that was doomed because he couldn't have children and he wasn't prepared to explore other options. I didn't know what to do, so I got lost and had ideas of meeting someone and getting pregnant with them. I meet the MM and think mmm. However my fantasies are soon scuppered when he mentions that he's had a vasectomy 8-( Oh I did laugh to myself and that was the end of those silly fantasies. So my relationship breaks down with ease and no fallout, but somehow it doesn't quite pan out as the exit affair it could easily have been. Now this is where it gets unusual - the affair now serves to create 'space' for me to think about my own life. I just figure that at some point it's going to end and I won't be too emotional about it, most likely I will meet a new beau, but I guess I must like this 'space' because I continue in it for several years. As it hits me that I'd have to meet a new man, allow maybe a couple of years before having a baby I start realising I don't have the patience so after a year of tests and getting my business in a good place I have a baby via artificial means Then I am pregnant for a year and very unwell so MM does not figure a great deal.

 

A baby is born 8-) And then it hits me all that uncomfortable stuff from 8 years ago starts resurfacing as though I could only hold it at bay for so long before it eventually caught up with me. Now I see the affair as just how detached I had become in order to cope with the abortion and the unhealthy relationship. It was like emotions that disappeared started to come back and I had to stitch myself back together again. It was like - OMG why am I in an affair? Why am I still with MM?, how the hell has this gone on for close to 3yrs and we've never openly discussed what we are doing!!!!! About this time I discover Loveshack and start reading the OW stories.

 

I now know I need out and there is no stopping this thought process. It takes 6 months to extract myself. The NC is difficult but I remember became bearable and easier after 30 days. Four months in he breaks no contact and we are back in contact. The only difference now is I'm adamant I do not want the affair to continue. I'm done with that.

 

I agree to meet five months later, on the condition that 'affair speak' is strictly off limits, so we talk about our families, work, plans etc... I meet him and it's like I'm out the other side and view things differently. I don't buy into 'affair fog' - my whole life was a fog!! I still feel a great deal of affection for him. I get upset, crying that I want more for myself and my son that if I hadn't ended it we would still be here in another 5yrs time (yes - its close to that now!). I am crying 'you need to let me go!!!'

 

This is when our relationship shifts. We actually start talking like we have not done before about our dreams, what we want out of life, important qualities in a relationship. He tells me he doesn't want to lose me from his life so finally addressing his marriage, starts individual therapy.

 

Now I am really keen to move on with my life: with or without him. Because I tell you something now that I am not so detached from life, this waiting is REALLY hard. I have little patience - the thought of sticking with him for another 4 months (that's the timeline he's given) whilst he decides to stay or leave IS now driving me around the twist. I know that we need time apart from communications i.e. he deals with all this without me in the equation, but I keep bringing this up and he now seems to be ignoring it.

 

Any way the crux of it is, I do love him and want to pursue a relationship with him if he decides to leave his marriage. Not sure how long after a relationship could healthily start as he needs to be well and truly over the affair aspect and done his therapy work like I have. If he stays I will accept that is best for him and move on.

 

Phew. I feel lighter for getting that off my chest.

[RoseVille]

I'm not sure I want to wait. I don't think I can. I think I am too keen to get on with my life.

 

How long are you going to wait? 4 more weeks since this post? 4 months? 4 years?

[OWAmy]

Rose, I don't think I can wait. It's not like I've been waiting close to 5yrs. This is what I'm trying to get across I was very lost with things, didn't even consider having a relationship until the last few months as I was so detached. So only spent 3 months entertaining the idea and I'm stressed already!!

 

He's given himself 6 months in therapy, so the end of November. But I want to not be around at all for the duration. I won't let up on the 'no contact' its in my head the best thing to do and not going to go away.

 

x

[RoseVille]

Your update just now says that you've been having more honest conversations with MM. How is that consistent with NC?

 

Have you told him you're waiting? With an expiry date? I hope not.

[OWAmy]

I have been having more honest conversations with him. But whilst he deliberates over staying or leaving I want us to be in 'no contact' i.e up to a maximum of end of November. I don't want to hear about his feelings being pulled in different directions. He needs to make his decision independent of me.