What was your breaking point?

[Denton2406]

Roller coaster Rider......so true!

[happy stillmore]

I think the never-ending guessing at what is real and what is dreaming tires you after awhile. You get exhausted and just break. You are sick of the games. Both women (OW and BS) do not deserve the lies. I was tired of waiting for afuture that wasn't going to happen. It was time to get real.

[Amelia81]

Hi Amelia,

 

my age is similar as you, and now been though similar path you been 3 years ago.

 

now i am in a hard time, it good that see you get though it, because you say, you don't feel any emotion towards now.

 

how long this healing process will take and when you find out you can start love another person again, i just want to believe myself that i can really fine one day and have the healthy relationship again.

 

I think whilst it was heartbreaking, in my mind I knew it meant he wasn't the man for me and that someone else was out there for me and the longer I dwelled on him the longer it would take me to meet that person. I believe NC is the strongest tool in getting over someone and I tried to start dating as soon as I could although didn't find anyone I felt strongly about for quite sometime. My self esteem was rock bottom and I gained nearly four stone in weight over the following two years post break up. Not because I was missing him, it was just the knock on effect of losing self esteem.

 

It will get better but you have to protect yourself and stay strong as no one else can do it for you xx

[Whisper Quiet]

xMM sent his BS a photograph he took of a feature of my home. A unique, one of a kind feature that would allow anyone to identify my home.

 

That ripped the blinders off. I saw him for what he truly was,or so I thought. (It would get worse.) My doubts could no longer be quieted. I quit doubting me.

 

He pulled out all the stops trying to convince me I was somehow wrong for no longer believing his lies. When that tactic failed he turned mean, hurtful, and just downright frightening. Ultimately threatening me.

 

All the ugliness came into sharp focus. I was irreversibly DONE with him. No words, no actions, so situation will ever change my mind about that.

 

I still struggle with this. Heart vs. head. But, ya know, his actions sure shied me who he really is.

[vanellope]

I think whilst it was heartbreaking, in my mind I knew it meant he wasn't the man for me and that someone else was out there for me and the longer I dwelled on him the longer it would take me to meet that person. I believe NC is the strongest tool in getting over someone and I tried to start dating as soon as I could although didn't find anyone I felt strongly about for quite sometime. My self esteem was rock bottom and I gained nearly four stone in weight over the following two years post break up. Not because I was missing him, it was just the knock on effect of losing self esteem.

 

It will get better but you have to protect yourself and stay strong as no one else can do it for you xx

 

thank you Amelia, I wish you good and meet the right one in life.

[Whisper Quiet]

Do you mean he showed her a pic of your home because he thought it woukd interest her (as in, she is interested in art deco sau, and he showed her an art deco window in your home)? Or was it more like he was trying to expose the affair or you?

 

A large portion of cheating MM are narcissists, thus the ability to so easily lie and manipulate for their selfish desires

 

It was not something she would be interested in. I live on water, with a boat docked at my home. He sent her a photo of my boat & dock. Boat was inherited, so it has sentimental meaning to me. My home is clearly identifiable in the pic.

 

He also sent her a nice little message with the pic about how he was going to spend the day on the boat. Of course, he did not mention the day would be with me or that the boat was mine.

 

Narcissist. Yes. Douche. Yes.

 

I am done, done, done with him.

[Whisper Quiet]

The photo incident did make me wonder if there was some kind of warped game being played with xMM an BS with me as the pawn. More likely though, his ego got in the way and he thought he had every thing and everyone wrapped up in neat little bundles he was controlling.

[Whisper Quiet]

Do u think in some sick way he was taunting his wife? Or just trying to hurt you by sending her a msg while with you?

 

It could also be he's just a narcissistic idiot, and simply thought "Oh I'kl show my wife this pretty boat Im on"...with not a bone of sensitiviy or sympathy in him, like he's missing a chip?

 

That really is odd! Was there similar type stuff he did before that too, in retrospect?

 

I don't think he was taunting his wife and he sent the photo to her on the sly from me.

 

His professional life gives him a sense of being powerful and in charge of people and situations. Very common for the job. The ego feed he gets from the job soothes his deep seated fears and insecurities. He needs validation constantly. From everyone, about everything, but he hides his need for validation. So, yes, he is missing a chip.

[Denton2406]

It's already ended, but just seen a pic of his wife on FB at 8 months pregnant which has just about finished me off. When I met him she was 2 months pregnant and I never knew, only found out 6 wks ago, I am in so much pain it's untrue, feel so depressed and like I will never be happy again.

[dustystar]

I posted here a while back in August 2013, saying that I was forever done with my MM. Guess I lied. Because we got back together for the umpteenth time (entirely my fault because of my weakness). This time, when I say I AM DONE, I'm not lying. He continually claimed that he hardly spoke to her at all. And that she never calls him anymore. Yesterday, I saw his phone bill from one and a half years ago until now. (We've been together almost two and a half years.) Outgoing and incoming calls to his wife, pretty much daily. Once in a while, the calls would last as long as 25 minutes. Most of the time, they were one to two minute calls, but they were still calls. Still in contact every single day of the year. Obviously, our phone conversations would far exceed their's, sometimes lasting 144 plus minutes, but I don't live with him. He knew that I would be upset if he ever took a call from her in front of me, but I feel ultimately betrayed. Call me crazy but this is what I needed to see, albeit how ridiculous it may seem. Duh, it's his WIFE that he's conversing with. Well, he lied to me about their contact. And I feel like I've been stabbed in the chest. If he lied to me about this, what else has he been lying to me about? He always made it sound like he didn't know what she was up to, and that she stayed out all the time without him knowing where she was. He made it sound like they hardly speak, as if they lived in silence in their household. BIG fat fibs. THIS is the proof I've been waiting for.

 

 

It's ironic. From the other threads and experiences I've read through, the BS finds a phone bill with the same number on it over and over and over again, and realizes that her husband is cheating on her. This time, the tables are turned. I, the OW, see the phone bill, and I feel betrayed.

 

 

To all OW out there, if you want to break up with your MM for the FINAL time, find your breaking point, something that will enrage you to the point that you will never feel comfortable being with him ever again. Look for it. Granted, it's only been a day since our ultimate break up. But my mindset is finally finally finally different from what it has been over the past two and a half years. I don't trust him anymore. I do love him, but how many times has he let me down? My love isn't enough to carry us through, no matter how many tears I've shed for him.

[ZMM]

Excuse me, this is unrelated. I wanted to post in another thread of yours, but it was too old. I think you are right on target with a lot of your posts regarding conflict avoidant behavior and how it causes people to remain in unhappy marriages. I think I may be guilty of that type of behavior.

 

One item that grabbed my attention when reading your old thread where you were talking about your XMM and that he never liked to discuss politics. It made me wonder, because I like to discuss/debate politics and I never get upset. In addition, I don't think I am conflict avoidant in other areas, such as business. I know that during the course of my M, my wife has flown off the handle at the drop of a hat and called me all sorts of things and attacked me with no grounds or basis in reality. I also, do stand up for myself and am totally independent. But, I do avoid arguments with her and do sometimes feel like I am walking on eggshells.

 

I know you are not a Psychologist, but since you DO play one on TV, I thought maybe you could render an opinion.

Edited December 21, 2013 by ZMM

[ElectricTangerine]

Dustystar, I can so relate to your story. Congratulations for finding the strength and courage to leave the liar!

 

For me, it was a sequence of events. I felt a shift in my feelings for him when he cancelled a plan we made together. I wanted to have a medical procedure done and asked him to come and stay with me for the weekend and take care of me just in case I didn't feel well (we live in separate countries, 4h apart). Two days before he lets me know his wife got sick and now he has to take care of their kid while she's in the hospital. So he can't come see me for more than half a day. I told him not to come at all. It just made me realize that there is a gigantic chunk of his life that I'm not a part of. I came second, his priority will always be his family and not me (though he did leave her and was living on his own at that point). After that, I started discovering his lies. How many times he was married, when he actually left the BS, how much he interacted with BS while still living with her and telling me he was separated... But the last straw was seeing his e-mail account and reading the messages between him and BS from about a year before we met and almost a year into our relationship. He claimed they didn't have much in common and he did a lot of things on his own, without her. Yet he mentioned her in almost every e-mail and they seemed to do a lot of activities together. Reading e-mails from the period when he claimed to be separated was even worse. He told me he slept in a separate bedroom, barely any interavtion between them, almost no commonmeals, nothing. Just whatwas necessary for their child, other than that they both did their own thing. Yet, in e-mails he called her cute pet names, told her how much he missed and adored her... WTF!!! 3 months after we met he was still making plans with her to come see him after he finishes work so they can go for a run in the woods together. ****ing disgusting. His explanation for all this was that he was weak, an idiot and only did it all to appease her. The puzzling thing is that 6 months after we met, he actually really left her and moved out. But I had no clue I was in an affair for 6 months and only found out 1.5 year into our relationship. He is weak, very passive and a liar who made terrible decisions.

[dustystar]

ElectricTangerine, I'm so glad that you are out of that relationship! I applaud you. How long have you been out? I hope that you are healing well and happy!

[happy stillmore]

HMM,

 

I appreciate your interest on this topic. I'm not a psychologist but I will try to explain as I understand it. To me, this idea of conflict avoidance explains a lot of my actions in my life. I will abbreviate conflict avoidance as CA. Those who are CA are afraid to hurt others or dig deep to discuss serious issues. Conflict with others cause the CA person to feel stress (emotional and/or physical). To avoid conflict, a person may pretend there are no problems. Everything is fine. CA people may shift the attention to something else in hopes of diverting away from a hot issue. The CA person may blank out during a conflict. He/she may detach themselves from the conversation if the situation becomes too stressful. I believe the CA person is not comfortable with topics that can hurt others. They will save others from negative feelings at the expense of their own feelings. The CA person has a hard time putting others in an awkward position knowingly.

 

I will give you an example of how bad of a CA person I am. When my H and I were dating, (I was 19, he was 24) he peeped on me while I was taking a shower at his mother's house. Most people would get angry and say WTF and break up with that person. We weren't in a sexual relationship yet. In fact, I was still a virgin and no man had ever seen me naked at that point. Me being CA, pretended it did not happen. You see, I was more embarrassed FOR him. I did not want to embarrass him so I acted like nothing happened. It is crazy and to this day, I understand why I don't fully trust my H. I resent myself a bit for not standing up for myself then. I am now 44 years old and I have become emotionally stronger. I am standing up for myself and not putting others ahead of me. I still often avoid conflict in situations where it doesn't directly impact me. I may just give in to an argument just because it is not worth it to argue at that moment. But, if the issue impacts me directly, I am standing up for myself. I do find I am not one who is comfortable with conflict as others are at work. Some thrive on conflict, I like peace.

 

You asked me for my opinion. To me, it sounds like you do avoid conflict with your wife. From what you wrote, I would say you may or may not possibly have a CA personality. Yes, you avoid conflict with your wife but you don't in other areas of your life. It is just easier to not argue so you avoid her triggers. It makes your life a lot easier by not discussing certain things. Let me ask you, do you feel comfortable talking about deep issues with your wife even if it can cause her pain? I believe the CA person is not able to deal with heavy emotions. I believe CA is related to a person's self-esteem. I don't have the courage to face issues directly rather than just choosing not to. Two different things. The big question is whether you have serious issues with your wife but are afraid to bring them up because she will be hurt. You are avoiding it at your expense. Your fear of hurting her overrides your desire to fix the problem.

 

I know it isn't always easy but do you still talk about serious things? My H do not. We both are CA. He has texted me about our problems. We just don't talk. Now, with xMM, I was able to talk about serious things. Although he would go along with what I said. He was CA to the extreme. He has issues with his wife and instead of facing them, looked outside of his marriage for happiness. Exactly what I wrongly did too!

 

I am learning to face things directly. I think my upbringing had something to do with my CA. I was raised to turn the other cheek, not necessarily stand up for yourself. Issues were not dealt with directly in my home. The same with my H. CA is detrimental to a relationship as CA prevents the real truth to come out and be dealt with. So the relationship will be a shallow one where both are saying the right things to prevent an argument.

 

I hope this helps you. It is my interpretation of conflict avoidance.

 

Sincerely,

Dr. Sigmund Freud

Edited December 22, 2013 by happy stillmore

[ZMM]

HMM,

 

I appreciate your interest on this topic. I'm not a psychologist but I will try to explain as I understand it. To me, this idea of conflict avoidance explains a lot of my actions in my life. I will abbreviate conflict avoidance as CA. Those who are CA are afraid to hurt others or dig deep to discuss serious issues. Conflict with others cause the CA person to feel stress (emotional and/or physical). To avoid conflict, a person may pretend there are no problems. Everything is fine. CA people may shift the attention to something else in hopes of diverting away from a hot issue. The CA person may blank out during a conflict. He/she may detach themselves from the conversation if the situation becomes too stressful. I believe the CA person is not comfortable with topics that can hurt others. They will save others from negative feelings at the expense of their own feelings. The CA person has a hard time putting others in an awkward position knowingly.

 

I will give you an example of how bad of a CA person I am. When my H and I were dating, (I was 19, he was 24) he peeped on me while I was taking a shower at his mother's house. Most people would get angry and say WTF and break up with that person. We weren't in a sexual relationship yet. In fact, I was still a virgin and no man had ever seen me naked at that point. Me being CA, pretended it did not happen. You see, I was more embarrassed FOR him. I did not want to embarrass him so I acted like nothing happened. It is crazy and to this day, I understand why I don't fully trust my H. I resent myself a bit for not standing up for myself then. I am now 44 years old and I have become emotionally stronger. I am standing up for myself and not putting others ahead of me. I still often avoid conflict in situations where it doesn't directly impact me. I may just give in to an argument just because it is not worth it to argue at that moment. But, if the issue impacts me directly, I am standing up for myself. I do find I am not one who is comfortable with conflict as others are at work. Some thrive on conflict, I like peace.

 

You asked me for my opinion. To me, it sounds like you do avoid conflict with your wife. From what you wrote, I would say you may or may not possibly have a CA personality. Yes, you avoid conflict with your wife but you don't in other areas of your life. It is just easier to not argue so you avoid her triggers. It makes your life a lot easier by not discussing certain things. Let me ask you, do you feel comfortable talking about deep issues with your wife even if it can cause her pain? I believe the CA person is not able to deal with heavy emotions. I believe CA is related to a person's self-esteem. I don't have the courage to face issues directly rather than just choosing not to. Two different things. The big question is whether you have serious issues with your wife but are afraid to bring them up because she will be hurt. You are avoiding it at your expense. Your fear of hurting her overrides your desire to fix the problem.

 

I know it isn't always easy but do you still talk about serious things? My H do not. We both are CA. He has texted me about our problems. We just don't talk. Now, with xMM, I was able to talk about serious things. Although he would go along with what I said. He was CA to the extreme. He has issues with his wife and instead of facing them, looked outside of his marriage for happiness. Exactly what I wrongly did too!

 

I am learning to face things directly. I think my upbringing had something to do with my CA. I was raised to turn the other cheek, not necessarily stand up for yourself. Issues were not dealt with directly in my home. The same with my H. CA is detrimental to a relationship as CA prevents the real truth to come out and be dealt with. So the relationship will be a shallow one where both are saying the right things to prevent an argument.

 

I hope this helps you. It is my interpretation of conflict avoidance.

 

Sincerely,

Dr. Sigmund Freud

 

Thanks Dr, for the explanation. After reading your post and thinking about my M and other Romantic relationships I have had over the course of my life, I do not think I am CA. I am not actually afraid to tangle with my W and do bring up issues, I just never make any headway and after a while I probably give up trying. There are certain issues I would avoid and not bring up as I know it would trigger a total eruption. Like you said, this is probably more of a choice I make.

 

I am afraid of hurting her and I am not sure if she could handle things without me and if she couldn't I am not sure I could live with that. But that may be a pretty common feeling. Perhaps, it is something I need to work on.

 

I also know that in other romantic relationships, there never was any avoidance of discussing deep issues.

 

So, now that I ruled that out, I will need to dig deeper into my psyche.

 

Thanks again, Happy!

[SweetClover]

My breaking point would be if he had agreed to have another child when she brought it up. That would be way to much for me to handle.

[whichwayisup]

It's already ended, but just seen a pic of his wife on FB at 8 months pregnant which has just about finished me off. When I met him she was 2 months pregnant and I never knew, only found out 6 wks ago, I am in so much pain it's untrue, feel so depressed and like I will never be happy again.

 

Oh you will be happy again. Don't let him steal that from you! Let go of the man you thought he was. That guy never existed. Kill that fantasy!!

[ElectricTangerine]

ElectricTangerine, I'm so glad that you are out of that relationship! I applaud you. How long have you been out? I hope that you are healing well and happy!

 

A little over 2 weeks now. I'm glad I ended things, it was the best decision I could make. It feels great and so freeing that I no longer have to think about his stupid wife and constantly long for him to make changes and divorce. I'm no longer the OW and I never want to go through the pain of being one again. That being said, I do miss him. I miss the intimacy, I miss how good we were together, the harmony, cuddling with him.... Apart from the lies, his passiveness and weaknes... He was perfect for me. I really thought he was the one. Oh well. And he actually finally filed for the divorce as soon as he felt he was losing me, but it was toolate. Him doing that gave me no joy.

 

Anyway, dustystar I hope you're coping well after finally ending it. Stay strong.

[flowingmane]

I have not ended the R, nor do I want to, but I reached my breaking point at Thanksgiving when it comes to sharing MM with the presumably STBX.

 

This was our first holiday season together as a couple, openly to all but STBX and family, having taken a lot of next steps after almost 3 years together. He had told me he was going to spend the holidays at home with his family (parents, siblings, family friends, etc)... then suddenly he was bringing the STBX along for appearances I guess, or because she (nor they) doesn't know she is a STBX, or maybe because he simply didn't have the guts to enforce the separation and take all the questions, I don't know.

 

I just snapped and was angry, crying, very hurt, asking uncomfortable questions. I hurt him deeply, never saw a look like that before on his face. Truly afraid I may have pushed him too far, but I said I wanted to be honest. Too honest, some of that should have remained buried in my psyche as they are imagined fears. Maybe some of you can understand how the "what ifs" creep in...

[ElectricTangerine]

I have not ended the R, nor do I want to, but I reached my breaking point at Thanksgiving when it comes to sharing MM with the presumably STBX.

 

This was our first holiday season together as a couple, openly to all but STBX and family, having taken a lot of next steps after almost 3 years together. He had told me he was going to spend the holidays at home with his family (parents, siblings, family friends, etc)... then suddenly he was bringing the STBX along for appearances I guess, or because she (nor they) doesn't know she is a STBX, or maybe because he simply didn't have the guts to enforce the separation and take all the questions, I don't know.

 

I just snapped and was angry, crying, very hurt, asking uncomfortable questions. I hurt him deeply, never saw a look like that before on his face. Truly afraid I may have pushed him too far, but I said I wanted to be honest. Too honest, some of that should have remained buried in my psyche as they are imagined fears. Maybe some of you can understand how the "what ifs" creep in...

 

What a jerk. 3 years with him and he still brings the wife along to spend the holidays with his family? And none of them know about you? I think you should ask yourself how "open as a couple" you two really are. You have a right to be very upset, hurt and angry about this. You NEED to ask the uncomfortable questions and YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO DO IT. And he's got some nerve blaming you for feeling hurt. He's making it seem like you're the crazy one who can't manage her emotions about him doing something perfectly acceptable. Well, that's pure BS. His behavior is wrong and despicable. Don't let him convince you otherwise flowingmane!

[flowingmane]

What a jerk. 3 years with him and he still brings the wife along to spend the holidays with his family? And none of them know about you? I think you should ask yourself how "open as a couple" you two really are. You have a right to be very upset, hurt and angry about this. You NEED to ask the uncomfortable questions and YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO DO IT. And he's got some nerve blaming you for feeling hurt. He's making it seem like you're the crazy one who can't manage her emotions about him doing something perfectly acceptable. Well, that's pure BS. His behavior is wrong and despicable. Don't let him convince you otherwise flowingmane!

 

He's very sad and disappointed in me, I think. He has cried at some of what I have said, which makes me feel even worse. I never ever want to hurt him for any reason, and he always felt safe with me. But this really cut me deeply... it blindsided me. I only wish he could visualize how these things might be perceived before he does them.

 

Now he has a couple weeks with family to dwell on what I said and only God knows what will be the outcome. I regret some of what I said, but it came flooding out from somewhere very deep, not as an angry shout, but as a quiet, painful little voice. Soul baring. No tears from me until near the end, just hollow voiced. And stroking his leg and back tenderly, feeling like the world's biggest heel. He is the love of my life, corny and cliched as that sounds. It was like twisting a knife in my own heart to see him so hurt.

[Nothisgirl]

He's very sad and disappointed in me, I think. He has cried at some of what I have said, which makes me feel even worse. I never ever want to hurt him for any reason, and he always felt safe with me. But this really cut me deeply... it blindsided me. I only wish he could visualize how these things might be perceived before he does them.

 

Now he has a couple weeks with family to dwell on what I said and only God knows what will be the outcome. I regret some of what I said, but it came flooding out from somewhere very deep, not as an angry shout, but as a quiet, painful little voice. Soul baring. No tears from me until near the end, just hollow voiced. And stroking his leg and back tenderly, feeling like the world's biggest heel. He is the love of my life, corny and cliched as that sounds. It was like twisting a knife in my own heart to see him so hurt.

 

Without knowing more about your relationship and you mm I would say that the majority of his "hurt" is to manipulate you into feeling like you've done something wrong to take the pressure off of him and his lying and poor choices. I'm sorry to say that but it really sounds like he knows how sensitive you are to his feelings and he is using that to make you look like the bad guy. In a good solid R you should be able to share your innermost thoughts and fears..not have to hide them

 

If your relationship was out in the open he would be with you over the holidays not his wife.

 

Please stop blaming yourself, from what I can see he is in the wrong not you.

[flowingmane]

In a good solid R you should be able to share your innermost thoughts and fears..not have to hide them

 

This sentence really resonated with me, Nothisgirl.

 

After so many years of the guilt and hope that comes with being the OW, even though we have been far more public than most throughout, I guess it comes naturally to continue suppressing thoughts or fears about the spouse. It felt so weird to say what I did - I felt like I was drunk. But veritas, no vino. All the morning after regrets, however.

 

He tried to pretend it had washed over, but I said something apologetic this morning upon waking up and he clearly wanted to run away rather than risk going there. This more than anything scares me - why won't he talk to me? Why pretend it never happened? Why internalize it all?

 

Thanks Nothisgirl. Sigh. Pandora's Box.

[Nothisgirl]

This sentence really resonated with me, Nothisgirl.

 

After so many years of the guilt and hope that comes with being the OW, even though we have been far more public than most throughout, I guess it comes naturally to continue suppressing thoughts or fears about the spouse. It felt so weird to say what I did - I felt like I was drunk. But veritas, no vino. All the morning after regrets, however.

 

He tried to pretend it had washed over, but I said something apologetic this morning upon waking up and he clearly wanted to run away rather than risk going there. This more than anything scares me - why won't he talk to me? Why pretend it never happened? Why internalize it all?

 

Thanks Nothisgirl. Sigh. Pandora's Box.

 

I get it...my mm would do the same thing...tell me repeatedly how important my feelings were to him and that he always wanted me to tell him how I felt but when I did express the deep stuff, you know the hard questions and feelings I could tell it freaked him out...because OMG!!! He might have to stop being a coward and make a decision ...ugh

 

Anyway, if I can be totally honest with you he reacted that way and doesnt want to talk about it because he doesn't want to have to deal with your feelings...I'm sorry to say this but he sounds like most MM and it's all about him ...they are so so good at pulling out all the stops, the charm, making you feel like the most prized woman in the world but when push comes to shove you and your feelings won't come first

 

I'm so sorry you're in pain

[flowingmane]

Well, not a word from him since he left home. I went to my pastor this afternoon and did not get the reassurance I was seeking. He said if Christmas Eve and Christmas Day pass with not a word, no sign of anything then it's likely over or a really critically bad sign. He did not say much that was kind (not even knowing this is an A) toward the situation, and pointed out that men tend to run from emotions vs work through them. His words, not mine. And this is a guy who does a lot of MC and IC as part of his job.

 

I have fallen into a state of being numb. Alternating with tears before I start doing something to try and get my mind off of it. Cycle starts again. At this rate I'm going to be on meds by New Year's.

 

Guess I'm glad I found LS. At least I have the company of others who are in or have been in similar situations. I don't feel as alone now.