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Don't love my wife in love with another woman


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You said that look down upon your wife and that you never loved her from the beginning, but you also want to remain her best friend after the divorce.

You said your kids live in a "little utopia" but that your wife has been verbally abusive the duration of your marriage and is verbally abusive to the kids as well.

 

And you also still manage to have great sex.

 

Maybe more to your story, you have a lot of emotions to sort out, but IMO if your true bottom level emotion for your wife is contempt-I would suggest divorce.

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How does one MARRY a person that they don't even like????

 

It happens all of the time. Especially, when people get married in their early 20's. I also knew my husband wasn't the one, but I thought I'd fall completely in love with him in time. I thought he would change. I thought I could change him. No, I'm definitely not rewriting my marriage either. I was young and dumb when I met my husband. I had no clue what I wanted in life.

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AlwaysGrowing
It happens all of the time. Especially, when people get married in their early 20's. I also knew my husband wasn't the one, but I thought I'd fall completely in love with him in time. I thought he would change. I thought I could change him. No, I'm definitely not rewriting my marriage either. I was young and dumb when I met my husband. I had no clue what I wanted in life.

 

 

Don't get me wrong..I got pregnant at 17, married 2 weeks after my 18th birthday to a man who was slightly less dysfunctional than my FOO. By the age of 20 I was divorced. At the time, I felt I made my bed and had to lie in it. It didn't take long for me to come to my senses. I can't imagine 4 kids coming after knowing there was such dysfunction..and 22 years.

 

I also had no interest in fixing him so that I could love him. I just wanted to be as far away as possible.

 

That time of my life..is like it happened to someone else...I am so far removed from that person/place/time. I know the facts...no strong emotions over it though...indifference...I have processed it all...and made the changes I needed to.

 

To me...it would seem the OP has ingrained some very unhealthy thought processes/coping mechanisms that are going to take a while to rewire. It doesn't happen overnight.... and for some...never at all. Look at all the messed up over 40 people there are.

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AlwaysGrowing, then is your advice for me to stay? Continue to work at it? Rewire myself? My wife has- she's changed herself for the better, and is succeeding in a big way. Running marathons now, more present, in charge of her life. 22 years of me trying hasn't produced any feelings in me, but maybe more time is required, as she is a different person in many respects. Sounds like you were courageous and made the right choices, however difficult.

 

Violet1, are you still married then?

 

Elanorrigby, I do look down on her, but she's always tried to be the person I want her to be- a terrible burden for anyone to be under. I care about her in many ways, I just don't love her in that one ideal way. I know it's confusing. It's as if it were an arranged marriage, where you try to make the most of what you have. Also, when she was verbally abusive to the kids, it was when they were very young. Now she is different. She's grown. They don't remember. We used to argue about it all the time, me telling her to treat them with tenderness, her not listening. But like I said, recently she has learned how, and her bonds with the kids have benefitted.

 

I absolutely don't have contempt for her. We don't have that type of relationship. We're both good to each other, just kind of sad, because she loves me, and knows that I care about her, but also don't feel "that way" about her.

 

Yes my emotions are very clouded. The OW is a big part of this I know. But I truly have never felt love for my wife in that way, looking back. She never really gave me a reason to in the past. I was the giver, she took. She has admitted to all this and apologized. She was flirty with other guys while I was there, disrespectful to my grandparents, parents. She got drunk once at a party and took off all her clothes while we were engaged. Spread her legs in front of a bunch of our friends. I drove her home that night crying while she was laughing. That one really f'd me up because it turned me on like crazy but also tore me up. That's just one of endless Sid and Nancy type stories we have. But now she's confronting things, becoming the person I always wanted her to be, which further confuses things for me. I put up with this for so long, just wanting out, and suddenly she gets her house in order after this OW thing erupted.

 

Snowflower, I don't know how I feel! I feel both like I should honor my vows and put my family before myself, but also wonder what the ramifications will be for my own mental health, and theirs, if I do. I kind of also feel like the ultimate point of life is to love and be loved, and I want to feel what that feels like. I suppose I've already felt it, once with OW and once when I was 12 years old, but I never had a relationship with either. I never loved any of my other girlfriends.

 

Btw someone said I've already cheated, even though we never had sex or kissed or touched or even had a conversation about us getting together. But it's true. I'm certainly guilty of emotional infidelity. Should I cheat? Fully? Would that be better than this? Keep the marriage, the kids, what they don't know won't hurt them? Everyone's happy? Except me for the guilt, but maybe it would be the price I'd pay to have this experience. I can't believe I'm even posing this question, but I'm here to just get it all out on the table and hear what you all think.

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peaksandvalleys
AlwaysGrowing, then is your advice for me to stay? Continue to work at it? Rewire myself? My wife has- she's changed herself for the better, and is succeeding in a big way. Running marathons now, more present, in charge of her life. 22 years of me trying hasn't produced any feelings in me, but maybe more time is required, as she is a different person in many respects. Sounds like you were courageous and made the right choices, however difficult.

 

Violet1, are you still married then?

 

Elanorrigby, I do look down on her, but she's always tried to be the person I want her to be- a terrible burden for anyone to be under. I care about her in many ways, I just don't love her in that one ideal way. I know it's confusing. It's as if it were an arranged marriage, where you try to make the most of what you have. Also, when she was verbally abusive to the kids, it was when they were very young. Now she is different. She's grown. We used to argue about it all the time, me telling her to treat them with tenderness, her not listening. But like I said, recently she has learned how, and her bonds with the kids have benefitted.

 

I absolutely don't have contempt for her. We don't have that type of relationship. We're both good to each other, just kind of sad, because she loves me, and knows that I care about her, but also don't feel "that way" about her.

 

Yes my emotions are very clouded. The OW is a big part of this I know. But I truly have never felt love for my wife in that way, looking back. She never really gave me a reason to in the past. I was the giver, she took. She has admitted to all this and apologized. She was flirty with other guys while I was there, disrespectful to my grandparents, parents. She got drunk once at a party and took off all her clothes while we were engaged. Spread her legs in front of a bunch of our friends. I drove her home that night crying while she was laughing. That one really f'd me up because it turned me on like crazy but also tore me up. That's just one of endless Sid and Nancy type stories we have. But now she's confronting things, becoming the person I always wanted her to be, which further confuses things for me. I put up with this for so long, just wanting out, and suddenly she gets her house in order after this OW thing erupted.

 

Snowflower, I don't know how I feel! I feel both like I should honor my vows and put my family before myself, but also wonder what the ramifications will be for my own mental health, and theirs, if I do. I kind of also feel like the ultimate point of life is to love and be loved, and I want to feel what that feels like. I suppose I've already felt it, once with OW and once when I was 12 years old, but I never had a relationship with either. I never loved any of my other girlfriends.

 

Btw someone said I've already cheated, even though we never had sex or kissed or touched or even had a conversation about us getting together. But it's true. I'm certainly guilty of emotional infidelity. Should I cheat? Fully? Would that be better than this? Keep the marriage, the kids, what they don't know won't hurt them? Everyone's happy? Except me for the guilt, but maybe it would be the price I'd pay to have this experience. I can't believe I'm even posing this question, but I'm here to just get it all out on the table and hear what you all think.

 

 

Leave already. Don't waste anymore of anyone's life. Guilt might be the least of your worries.

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I think I may have an opportunity to exit gracefully soon, as I may have to work out-of-state on a project, and the wife and kids couldn't move with me. We'd have a long-distance relationship that could make for a smooth transition. The kids would get used to me not living there, in a harmless way, and from there I could just sort of keep it that way.

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Yes, I'm still married to him. However, I'm finally trying to disentangle myself from the mess. He and I have been through separations, marriage counselling, etc. He has changed, but he only made the changes for me and not himself. I seriously tried to fix my marriage, but the fact is I just don't love him the way a wife should love her husband. I stayed with him because we have custody of one of his children and he's very dependant on me. I was afraid of what would happen if I left him. In fact, he tried to kill himself when I separated the last time. He said, " I want you to live with my death on your conscience. It's your fault for leaving me." His family blamed me. So, I jumped back into the marriage and started my affair a few months later.

 

Now, here I am in love with another man and married to another. Just recently, I decided I can't do this anymore. It's wrong to stay married to a man I don't love and keep his heart held hostage. He deserves love too. I'm planning my exit. I can't divorce at the moment because I want to wait till my stepchild is done with the school year. The step child's mother is literally unstable. I don't want to add to the child's stress especially during the school year. Considering the child says I'm more of a mother than the bio mom, it makes things more complicated.

 

As far as my MOM goes, we are madly in love with each other. We want a future together. However, we both know that a divorce is still right whether we end up together or not. Do not leave your marriage for another person. Leave your marriage because it can't be saved, if that's the case for you. The fact the is, it's not fair or right to stay married to someone you aren't in love with. I mean this in every case, it doesn't matter if there's an affair or not. I understand where you are coming from. The fear of the unknown is a b*tch, but fear paralyzes you. Don't you think it's time to stop being a coward and do the right thing? It's something I've started asking myself on a daily basis. Best wishes!

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I think I may have an opportunity to exit gracefully soon, as I may have to work out-of-state on a project, and the wife and kids couldn't move with me. We'd have a long-distance relationship that could make for a smooth transition. The kids would get used to me not living there, in a harmless way, and from there I could just sort of keep it that way.

 

That's not really graceful. That's using a back door to duck out to what's going on infront of you.

 

Never loved your wife in 22 years? I think you have butterflies right now for this co-worker and are confusing that with true love.

 

No one here is going to tell you what to do. You already KNOW what you want to do. You're just afraid to actually do it.

 

22 years is a long time. You think you've been helping your wife by staying with her when you say you don't love her. But you're making it worse for her.

 

Either get all in on your marriage, or get all out of it.

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brcc I think it would be wise to speak with an IC and get your head straight. I understand you want happiness, but holding something like this inside for 22 years!!! To hold your wife's life hostage like that. I feel sorry for her :(

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I think I may have an opportunity to exit gracefully soon, as I may have to work out-of-state on a project, and the wife and kids couldn't move with me. We'd have a long-distance relationship that could make for a smooth transition. The kids would get used to me not living there, in a harmless way, and from there I could just sort of keep it that way.

 

What you are describing here has nothing to do with grace. What you are describing is weasel behavior. It is the equivalent of telling your wife and kids you are going to the store for a gallon of milk and a package of cigarettes and just never coming back.

 

What do you think your strong courageous compassionate etc co-worker will think of a man who behaves in such a cowardly way? Think she will admire you for doing something like this?

 

I think you DO need to be upfront with your wife. Just let her know you want a divorce Nd THEN take the out of town work position.

 

If you want to attempt a relationship with CO-worker then do so after you divorce.

 

But truly, before you get involved with anybody you need some serious time with a therapist to figure out for yourself WHY you married and hAd children with someone you never loved who was apparently always verbally abusive to you and who had no impulse control who sent you home crying over her actions. WHY you never stood up for yourself. Why you have been always so passive about your own life.

 

Whatever relationship you are in, you will still be you. And honestly, not trying to be mean but, your passivity and passive aggressive behavior would drive any strong , emotionally healthy woman crazy in about 5 minutes.

 

Go ahead and divorce your wife. But spend some time figuring yourself out before you get involved with anyone else.

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You are delusional if you think you can get a divorce and that your kids are "just fine" with this scenario. You will not be "best friends" with your ex wife. Just by being divorced, there is no way you will be able to "be there for them in every way". It simply isn't possible because they will now be asked to live in 2 separate homes.

 

Will YOU be happier? Probably.

 

Will your kids pay the price? Most definitely.

 

Is it highly likely that your other romance will end in time? HIGHLY LIKELY no matter how much you think she is "the one"

 

It's up to you to weigh the costs vs benefits and make the choice but understand the reality of the situation.

 

The kids will have a hard time at first, yes. The pain of the divorce will fade eventually and they will transition. IMO, staying for the kids is not a wise decision in the long run.

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I think I may have an opportunity to exit gracefully soon, as I may have to work out-of-state on a project, and the wife and kids couldn't move with me. We'd have a long-distance relationship that could make for a smooth transition. The kids would get used to me not living there, in a harmless way, and from there I could just sort of keep it that way.

I think this is fine as long as your wife knows that's what your intentions are. You don't want her holding onto false hope.

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I think I may have an opportunity to exit gracefully soon, as I may have to work out-of-state on a project, and the wife and kids couldn't move with me. We'd have a long-distance relationship that could make for a smooth transition. The kids would get used to me not living there, in a harmless way, and from there I could just sort of keep it that way.

 

Do you really believe that this would be harmless? It's like a country song, Daddy went away and never came back. Honestly, either work on your marriage or end your marriage. You are doing your wife a dissatisfaction. Give her the opportunity to meet a man than loves her. She has spent 22 years of her life with a man who doesn't love her. Have you told her that? Have you said, I have never loved you?

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underwater2010
I think I may have an opportunity to exit gracefully soon, as I may have to work out-of-state on a project, and the wife and kids couldn't move with me. We'd have a long-distance relationship that could make for a smooth transition. The kids would get used to me not living there, in a harmless way, and from there I could just sort of keep it that way.

So let me get this straight....you are going to leave to work out of state and leave with I loves you guys see you soon. And then lower the boom. I have only one word for you....COWARD!!!

 

Look either stop talking with the other woman and focus on your marriage or talk with her about separation then divorce. But stop the crap.

 

Get yourself into IC asap and figure out what causes you to play the knight in shining amour. Because as much as you think you can jump from this marriage into another relationship without any issues....you are sorely mistaken.

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Voilet1, your situation is almost exactly the same as mine. I feel trapped. Like she's kept me a prisoner. I know this is my own problem, because if I had a spine I would've done this long ago. Actually I did leave her once for a month. I came back home to get some things and she seduced me and it started all over.

 

You're all right, I'm afraid... a total coward.

 

RightThere, there is no graceful exit, I just thought this other work thing would be a smoother transition. I think she fears this may be the end, but regardless she is supportive of my work decision whatever it is, because now in her new supportive role she has to.

 

I agree I need more therapy for this knight in shining armor crap. Was just concerned, if I made the decision to stay and try to make it work once and for all, if she knew I was going to see another therapist now she'd know it was about getting over my feelings for the OW, and right now we have this tenuous balance where she's holding out hope and I'm trying to figure it out. Again, cowardly, but I'm trying to spare her the grief of knowing her husband is in love with someone else, for the time being just in case we stay together. Again, why I'm here on this private forum. She found the last one I was on and I know she read it all. This one is strictly on a private browser w/no history so I can be totally open.

 

I feel so sorry for my wife too, ladyDesigner (my wife's a designer too). She doesn't deserve any of this. She's had a tough life in a lot of ways, and I'm turning out to be a big part of it. She deserves so much better than me. I wish she could see this. But she loves me desperately and what we've created, as do I. This is so f*$ing hard for my tiny brain to comprehend. I don't take it lightly.

 

Also, the only reason I'd leave is because it wasn't right for us, not to jump ship and go for someone else. Which is why it's taken so long to figure out... and now I've got two women I'm screwing up instead of just one. The OW has cloistered herself, rarely comes out to eat lunch... she hides. We were close last Halloween. This Halloween I saw alone, dressed in this frumpy costume, looking at me from across the lunch area, looking so beaten up. I parked my car next to hers and put some flowers in the window for her to see. Lame, I know... I just want to wrap my arms around her and say I'm so sorry for stringing her along, but we don't talk- just avoid one another now. Every time I see her my heart is in my throat.

 

Underwater2010, you're right. I'm a coward and I know there'll be MAJOR issues regardless of my decision. As I said, I have stopped talking to the other woman. Last I talked to her was 6 months ago when I called it off, and she did too, before it got serious. But it's clear, even though we don't talk, the feelings are still there. She has her safe ways of walking around campus, as do I- we try our best to avoid each other but we still pass every so often, trying not to have eye contact. It's brutal and excruciating, but also feels so good to love someone like this.

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AlwaysGrowing

I would not advocate for you to stay in a marriage that you so clearly are not happy in.

 

I also would not advocate being in a relationship with ANYONE.

 

If you want to divorce, then maybe the timing is right with the job. Just don't say..I am going away for work...while you are secretly with someone else. Start the divorce now.

 

If a 20 year old childhood abuse survivor could muster the strength to leave, learn new skills and change..so can a grown azz man.

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She's 46, I'm 42, but yes, I should be able to do this. If I decided to leave her I'd tell her straight up obviously, and yes, spend some healthy time alone, finding myself again. I'd have no choice. The OW isn't moving to where I'd likely be going. I'd be leaving LA and the studio I work for, she'd stay. Wife and I have already been extremely close to parting many times over the last year. She knows we're surviving on a thread right now. She was in a heavy mood last night because I told her about this possible move and I think she knows what it might mean. Part of me hopes being away from her and the kids might help save the marriage though too, as we've never really been apart, as she clings like glue - I'm sure an insecurity I've instilled in her. But I'd hoped that maybe if I was away from her for a while it'd help me see her in a new light, which is why I've asked her for a trial separation in the past, but she said no- it's either an ugly, angry divorce or I stay, that was her ultimatum.

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curiousGeorge2

brcc:

 

Whatever you do, focus on the practical part of it instead of the moral aspects. If you decide to leave the marriage but does not want to interrupt the kids' life, working out-of-the-state sounds like a feasible plan.

 

On the other hand, your wife is trying to change herself since she loves you. I am not advising you to stay, as it's up to you to decide, but it is an interesting fact but unfortunately it adds more confusion.

 

Is the co-worker the first woman you fall in love with? If so, this in itself is an important fact for you to think through. Personally I don't see any problem for you to date her when separated.

 

The last but not the least, you seems to suffer from co-dependence. Check it out.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by brcc View Post

Spread her legs in front of a bunch of our friends. I drove her home that night crying while she was laughing. That one really f'd me up because it turned me on like crazy but also tore me up.

 

Does/did your wife know you enjoy the humiliation?

 

I completely missed this. It turned you on like crazy AND it made you cry??

 

It seems to me that you really are confused about who you are and what you want in life. The things you look down on your wife for are also the things that have kept you with her and things that ultimately turn you on. You feel bad about yourself because you like it.

 

I really believe if you divorce her it will be because she has worked on herself and become more emotionally healthy.

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I have three kids, a happy household, at least everyone else is. We've been married 22 years. For 21 of them she was verbally abusive toward me as she had ptsd from a traumatic childhood/past. I never loved her to begin with but stuck by her because she needed help. Now I'm 42 and desperately in love with a woman at work and she is with me. I haven't cheated but want to. Want to end my marriage but don't want to hurt my kids/family. Please help.

 

Brcc many of the things you have written in this, and your later posts, reminds me of my H in his first M. He too married a damaged woman, hoping to save her. Like you, he was young (even younger than you) when he got together with her. Like you, he had a long M at the time he fell in love with someone else (me) - they'd been together 30 years. Like you, he felt torn between that love and duty toward his W and kids.

 

Of course, there are difference too, and I would not want to pretend that your situation mirrors his completely. Nor is his outcome necessarily the best for you. But there may be some things that resonate for you.

 

What helped him to resolve his conflict were two things, really - on the one hand, he worked hard to understand how he allowed himself to become such a passenger in his own life, how his "knight in shining armour" had led to the suppression of his own needs and how to allow himself to lead a more authentic life. He went to counselling, read widely and worked hard at changing his behaviour and responses. On the other hand, he spoke to close friends, family, and those he loved, and their support provided him with the perspective and social assurance to accept that he would not be a monster in anyone's eyes if he "failed" to honour his commitment to save his W from herself and the world. He saw that they loved him and wanted the best for him, and as a result of their caring he also came to care for himself more and not simply put himself last in line all the time.

 

He left. He's happier now than ever - we all are - and his only regret is that it took him so long to work through his conflict. I hope you are able to reach a state of resolution and peace, too, whichever way you choose to play it, in the end.

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Wow, some great posts here.

 

Awkward, yes, I've told her I don't love her. At first she didn't believe me but all the evidence through the years was there. Now she does, but is trying to do things to participate in our marriage so I will love her. We don't say the words "I love you" any more. The next time we say it I think we both want it to be real. As I've said, everything is out in the open between us, possible separation/divorce, the OW and my feelings for her (tho not the love part), etc... and she wants to keep trying regardless.

 

CuriousGeorge2, I think I'm actually the opposite- fiercely independent. She is the co-dependent one. I love solitude... it's something I've never really had in my adult life, and look forward to having that time it if we part. I grew up in the mountains on 4 acres of forest, and spent most of my time there alone, hiking, working on the land, etc... which was an ideal childhood for me. My parents were very loving and supportive. My wife had the opposite upbringing.

 

Also, yes, this OW is the first woman I've ever felt I loved. I loved a girl once in grade school. That was the last time I felt something like this, and even that was nothing close. This is like a madness as Shakespeare says... it affects everything. I think about her constantly, stare endlessly at pics of her, etc.

 

PhoenixRising, those are powerful insights! You're so right. I am very confused... duty vs love. My therapist said the same thing. Now that she is fixed, your job is done, is that how you feel? I said I think that might be a big part of this, though I never loved her from the beginning. I don't want to be this kind of person but maybe I have to realize I am.

 

Yes all that f'd up stuff really messed with my head. I cried after the party because she carelessly gave herself to everyone in front of me- we were engaged... it hurt, was embarrassing for me, made me feel like she was such a mess as a person, but yes turned me on in a big way too because I'm just a guy and she is a bombshell. It was a fancy party at a millionaire CEO's house, so it wasn't like a raging kegger, where something like that might happen more often? Basically, it was like watching your partner in a porno or something. Strangely, now that she's come down to earth, she's very conservative, but as I said, in those days she use to play with guys. She told me this, that she'd take them right to the brink, then walk away, just for the fun of it. One of them fell in love with her. She avoided him after we got married, afraid that he was going to do something bad to me. I had no idea any of this was going on until she confessed it a few months ago. He died recently, so I don't have to worry about that stalker.

 

Cocorico, thanks so much for that. So nice to hear the positive results of a very similar situation like this. It weighs so heavily on my mind, the idea of being a failure, wondering if my wife will truly hate me, if my kids will still love me or if my she will poison them against me, etc... It's such a big decision. But as you said, I've absolutely become a passenger in my life. I've done all those things he's done too- reading, therapy, talking to close friends and family, and I still feel like what I want to do is leave. Just feel so selfish affecting all these other people's lives because it's what I want. I think people really love us as a couple, and it'll surprise them, hurt a lot of people, most of all my wife and kids, the people I'm closest to. As I said, I care very much about my wife's well-being, even though I'm sure it really doesn't appear that way from what I'm saying.

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CuriousGeorge2, I think I'm actually the opposite- fiercely independent. She is the co-dependent one. I love solitude... it's something I've never really had in my adult life, and look forward to having that time it if we part. I grew up in the mountains on 4 acres of forest, and spent most of my time there alone, hiking, working on the land, etc... which was an ideal childhood for me. My parents were very loving and supportive. My wife had the opposite upbringing.

 

I would actually say you think you are, but you are not. You are dependent on her to validate your life. She is broken and you get to fix her. You probably enjoy alone time, but in order to make yourself feel whole, you are dependent on her.

 

I think once you are alone (without this other woman in the picture) you will find that the independent person you either were a long time ago or think that you are, is in fact your imagination. You'll struggle with not having someone else who is broken that you can focus all your efforts on. Instead you'll be forced to see yourself and the flaws within you.

 

My two cents anyways.

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You could be right. I don't know, as we've never been apart really. Right now it's like I'm always trying to find reasons to escape, be on my own, but maybe I'm fooling myself. If it is the case, and I spend this time working on my own flaws without anyone else, I suppose that's a really good thing. I hope this work thing happens. I'd welcome that clarity.

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Dear OP,

 

I'm sorry if I've missed the answer to this in posts before mine, but why did you marry your wife then if she wasn't the one for you?

 

How come you've been able to remain and raise your kids happily for 22 years

 

How come you still have great sex? if she has never been the one..

 

Last question..could it be...that you are trying to make yourself believe this because you have a bad case of GIGS/midlife criss kind of thing and you think it will be better with this other woman?

 

I mean, tbh, unless you're made of stone, no one will believe you if you say that you are not loving, and have never loved your wife of 22 years. Those statements are just contradicting themselves.

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curiousGeorge2

brcc:

 

You could have co-dependence but no one is sure. In my case I was totally surprised to read about co-dependence in another forum a few months ago. Then I found a test website and tested positive on every question I was asked.

 

ps. I still struggle with co-dependence as I still place the needs of others before my own.

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