am the OW and tired of getting blamed!!!!!!

[Mr Spock]

I didn't say anything about soul mates...or meant to be together....simply that two consenting adults who develop strong feelings and physical intimacy between each other happens for a reason. The fact of the matter is if one relationship is obviously down the tubes to ALLOW that attraction to happen if the reciprocating OP feels it as well they're going to have a VERY hard time denying that. And like I said, it's hard to imagine unless you've been there. And this is connecting with a person on all levels.

 

You call it "selfishness" I call it "protecting a person's interests" you cannot expect someone who is having an affair with your partner to look out for yours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I don't understand is when someone asks "What do I do about my married man?" and "Why is my married partner behaving this way?". Well, the answers seems quite obvious to me --- "Wait until he's divorced & available or find someone else" and "BECAUSE THEY ARE MARRIED!"

 

My goodness... I do believe you've just solved everyone's problem!!!! (I meant the sarcasm kindly)The actual thing that doesn't work here is that the OP is afraid of losing what little contact they have. It takes a lot of courage to issue ultimatums. Sometimes it takes YEARS. In between the beginning and the ultimatum stage you get those questions to which you've supplied the instant presto ready bake answers for. Until they get to that point, it's agonizing and plotting and worrying and loving etc etc and it's NOT EASY to cut yourself off from the addictive addictive cycle of the affair. "what should I do about my MM" means usually "I want to eventually get the courage to end this if he won't be with me" with a couple of exceptions.

 

Anyways, I've got to get some shut eye. More later.

[izzybelle]

kim

well.... here's, perhaps, a different perspective from someone who was an OW but also on the other side....

 

Married or single, gay or straight, I've honestly never heard anyone say that they enjoyed being cheated on.

 

although i can't say that i "enjoyed" it, and also never had definite proof, i can honestly say that i could have cared less if my ex was cheating or not! surprisingly, i'm sure there are others out there with similar feelings. for me, and i'm pretty sure i'm not alone, if a relationship is failing sometimes it's easier to justify saying "see ya" if you know they're involved with someone else. if my exH cheated (and i really do very strongly think he was and he's marrying the woman in the spr.) i played a large part in "pushing" him into it. probably, in part, to relieve some of my guilt for wanting out of the marriage. i've heard others say that it was easier to justify walking away if they knew there was someone else. and while i suspect there may be few that would actually admit it, and perhaps realize too late that they were doing it subconsciously, i think it may be more common than people think!

 

so even though my situation is different and in many ways, i can pretty comfortably say that if he did cheat, the majority of the responsibility falls on my shoulders. do i blame her? not in the least. i don't like her because of what their realtionship has done to my ex's relationship with his kids but i harbor absolutely no resentment towards her for what happened. in fact there have been some times when i've wanted to thank her! he's now her problem, not mine (or at least not as much anymore).

[startingover1028]

i can honestly say that i could have cared less if my ex was cheating or not! surprisingly, i'm sure there are others out there with similar feelings. for me, and i'm pretty sure i'm not alone, if a relationship is failing sometimes it's easier to justify saying "see ya" if you know they're involved with someone else.

 

I feel exactly the same! I am the one who cheated, yet, it would be so much easier for me to feel justified in dissolving my marriage if he were to do the same. Selfish? Probably. I look at it this way... if he is involved with someone else, I would feel much less guilty about leaving. As it is, I know he loves me, (he knows nothing about the affair.) To leave him now, would devastate him and even though I no longer love him, I care enough not to rip his heart out!

[izzybelle]

I feel exactly the same! I am the one who cheated, yet, it would be so much easier for me to feel justified in dissolving my marriage if he were to do the same. Selfish? Probably. I look at it this way... if he is involved with someone else, I would feel much less guilty about leaving. As it is, I know he loves me, (he knows nothing about the affair.) To leave him now, would devastate him and even though I no longer love him, I care enough not to rip his heart out!

 

i really do think it's pretty common. in fact, i was pretty sure that's what my MMs wife was doing since her behaviors toward him pretty much mirrored my behavior toward my exH before we divorced. and i think he may have thought that too, since he was incredibly surprised at her reaction when she found out about me. since she had been talking about leaving him for years, he was floored when she got pis*sed off that he was seeing someone else. i think he thought she wouldn't have cared. so i accept my part of the blame in that situation, but based on the circumstances i think that in my case with my MM the blame gets distributed the whole way around.

[Barby]

Wow this has gotten long,

 

I hardly think ANYONE feels badly for the Other Woman/Man OR the Married Man/Woman. In all infidelity situations, both are to blame, and both are deceptive, disrespectful and wrong to do what they did.

I totally agree.

 

Regardless of how I feel personally about "affairs" when you start lying, sneaking around so someone won't find out what you're doing, doing something that makes you feel even just a slight bit guilty, then you have to except full responsibility and blame for the choices you make.

 

We are responsible for our OWN actions. THe MM is responsible for infidelity. If you're a single OW/OM whatever, you're not responsible for infidelity. What you ARE responsible for is being an enabler. Enabling a person to escape the responsibility of dealing with or ending a relationship.

 

And we all make the mistake of thinking we're the exception instead of the rule. So, I'll say it again, until he leaves her for you it's not a real relationship. And he won't leave her for you if you're still sleeping with him (normally, remember we're talking the rule not the exception here) so what does an OW do? She lays it on the line. Her, or me. If he chooses her, he was never yours and you move ON.

 

The blame of "cheating" and wrecking a "home" is laid on the feet of an unfaithful spouse. The blame of enabling is laid on the feet of the OW/OM.

 

Excellently put!! I agree that the OM/OW are being enablers, allowing the cheating partner to continue their double life and therefor contributing to the deception and ultimately the pain in the end.

[bluechocolate]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

My goodness... I do believe you've just solved everyone's problem!!!! (I meant the sarcasm kindly)The actual thing that doesn't work here is that the OP is afraid of losing what little contact they have. It takes a lot of courage to issue ultimatums. Sometimes it takes YEARS. In between the beginning and the ultimatum stage you get those questions to which you've supplied the instant presto ready bake answers for. Until they get to that point, it's agonizing and plotting and worrying and loving etc etc and it's NOT EASY to cut yourself off from the addictive addictive cycle of the affair. "what should I do about my MM" means usually "I want to eventually get the courage to end this if he won't be with me" with a couple of exceptions.

 

Anyways, I've got to get some shut eye. More later.

 

It's the YEARS business I really have a hard time grasping. If you're aware of their status right from the start then it's gotta be eyes wide open all the way. I think immoralist refers to it as the "...fog.." once you start down this path your ability to reason begins to escape you & keeps retreating the longer you're on it.

[Ladyjane14]

While it’s true that the OP is an enabler, I don’t think that they are blameless.

 

Let’s say you are a businessperson who wants to make a contract for goods or services that you feel are really attractive. But the contract has already been awarded to another entity and their rights to the goods/services are exclusive. Now, you and the original ‘wholesaler’ might be in agreement that you would be the best person at this particular time to merchandise the product, but that does not mitigate the original contract. If the ‘wholesaler’ makes contract with you, it will not be valid. He/she needs to dissolve the original contract first.

 

My point being that you can’t be a receiver for that which has already been given to another and expect to be validated in the correctness of your position.

 

A judge would laugh you out of court if you went in whining about how much you really “loved” those goods or services and that’s why you were willing to be on the receiving end of illegal product distribution.

 

There’s just really not as much gray area in the decision to begin an affair with someone who is married. Not if you’re putting your ‘gray matter’ to good use anyway!

 

I realize that people who are intent on their position on this subject will continue to carry on about “being in love”, “being soulmates”, “having one life to live” and so forth.

 

But I’m not going to change my position either. I think it’s just wrong to presume that an OP has ANY place in someone else’s marriage. Period. My opinion.

 

Having said that, I do have to acknowledge the fact that the world is a screwed up place. And so I have to support the idea that once an affair has begun it needs to be resolved. I think the OM/OW board is a great place for those who find themselves already in that position to find resolution, including the use of ultimatums addressed to the MP.

 

This particular thread however deals in why the OP is blamed for the dissolution of the marriage. I can’t see how any discussion would be enlightening without including all opinions. And IMHO he/she is as culpable as the MP, if not more so, for the reasons I stated in earlier posts.

[DoggyDog]

This forum is a real trip...Been the MW,OW and everything in between and I can tell you I have it "MADE".....My MM is a LDR who I've been with for 15 yrs. offering me emotional, financial, sexual, and anything else I want...At the same time, I have another side of me that I'd love to share....I am "deceitful" to my MM when it comes to my extra curricular activities which includes seeing my other men for entertainment....Marriage is out of the question and always has been. I love the excitement, traveling to see my MM, and great sex all the way around....GUILT is not in my vocabulary......I could care less what my MM tell his W...in fact, this past January she found out about me and called me.....Questions, questions and you know what..... "I gave her all the answers"...."about my being with him over 15 yrs, blah blah blah... then I called my MM and told him his W and I talked. What did he do...........One thing he didn't do was stop calling or making plans for "US".

So what can I say......I'm spoiled and love every bit of it....I have cake and eat it too but then there is always the "Main Course"....and I have that in between.

 

My birthday is coming next week and my MM will be here....Go figure....He loves me and let's me know it......He never talks about the W and I don't ask...We enjoy each other and probably will be with each always...Just the way I want it. Also my MM was with me whenever I needed him, death of my Mom, Surgery, you name it, I can always count of my MM.....til my death.....

 

Sorry if this offends those W's, or H's.....but you see this OW is happy JUST AS THINGS ARE...............

 

 

No

[Owl]

So riddle me this...if the OP was actually "friends" with both members of the marriage, and then proceeded to begin an affair with one spouse, does anyone here feel that they "owe" anything to the other member of the marriage that they claimed to be friends with? I am sure I've made my views pretty clear...but I'm curious what the rest of the board feels about that.

 

In my case, my wife had an emotional affair with a mutual friend. I'm of the opinion that the spineless bastage at least should have tried to let me know as a friend just how unhappy she was telling him that she felt. Instead, he decided to keep that to himself...and use that as a basis to have this relationship with my wife. Do I blame him...you betcha!!! Was my wife at fault...absolutely, as she should have done something to get the message across to me on how bad she was feeling (without going outside of our marriage vows, thank you very much!). Am I partially to blame? Yes, I think so to some degree. I tried very hard to make my wife happy, and to do things to show her I love her. Some of that actually provided her the means to make this affair happen...and I should have found a way to break her out of the depression she was in at the time.

 

At any rate...I'd like to hear some thoughts on what others feel the OP should have done in our circumstance.

[StillHurtin]

Originally posted by Owl

So riddle me this...if the OP was actually "friends" with both members of the marriage, and then proceeded to begin an affair with one spouse, does anyone here feel that they "owe" anything to the other member of the marriage that they claimed to be friends with? I am sure I've made my views pretty clear...but I'm curious what the rest of the board feels about that.

 

In my case, my wife had an emotional affair with a mutual friend. I'm of the opinion that the spineless bastage at least should have tried to let me know as a friend just how unhappy she was telling him that she felt. Instead, he decided to keep that to himself...and use that as a basis to have this relationship with my wife. Do I blame him...you betcha!!! Was my wife at fault...absolutely, as she should have done something to get the message across to me on how bad she was feeling (without going outside of our marriage vows, thank you very much!). Am I partially to blame? Yes, I think so to some degree. I tried very hard to make my wife happy, and to do things to show her I love her. Some of that actually provided her the means to make this affair happen...and I should have found a way to break her out of the depression she was in at the time.

 

At any rate...I'd like to hear some thoughts on what others feel the OP should have done in our circumstance.

 

 

Owl, I don't know if you have read any of my post about my dh having an affair w/ a co-worker/friend. He worked w/ the OW for about three years. She also tried to be my friends, but I didn't want anything to do w/ her b/c she would always flirt w/ dh and he told me everything she would say or do when he would get home from work. When I went to go see dh at work she would always come over to talk to me. One day she came up behind me when I walked passed her and put her arm around my neck and gave me a hug and said "HEY!!!" I was a SAHM and she would asked me several times to babysit her child if her provider couldn't.

She gave dh a lot of attention. Our marriage wasn't all that great for reasons I blame him for. He didn't treat me that way I should of been treated. About 2 years of working w/ her he became her supervisor so they spent a lot of time 2gether around the plant. Friends that worked there or who had spouses that worked there would tell me they were seen in the plant in areas they didn't need to be in alone.

About 2 months after he became her supervisor he filed for a divorce. He said he was tired of all the fighting and knew I wasn't happy so he was going to let me go to find someone who would treat me the way I should be treated. After I kicked him out a few weeks later I heard that he was having an A w/ the OW. I called her and asked her what was going on between them. She denied anything. She told me that dh and her had been talking about our marriage and that he was having second thoughts, blah, blah, blah. She asked me if I wanted her to talk to him to see if he would change his mind about the divorce. She acted like she wanted to be my friend, try to talk to dh out of the D. All along she was waiting for the perfect opprotunity to sleep w/ him. We talked several times on the phone, sometimes she would call me even, and each time denied the A. Yes, I blame both dh and the skanky OW but what pi$$ed me off the most about her is that she tried being my friend, tried acting like she was going to talk to him and make him change his mind, and then she slept w/ my dh! Dh did break it off two months after dating her. Guess he found out the grass wasn't greener on the other side. Guess he realized he gave up a damn good woman for some skanky whore and he realized he made the BIGGEST mistake of his life.

So I know how it feels to have a "friend" sleep w/ your spouse. I could of easily been friends w/ this OW (B4 the affair) if she wouldn't of been after my dh. The first time I met her I thought she was pretty nice, had a fun personality, and then I found out she was after my dh. That is when I started disliking her.

[EnigmaXOXO]

No riddle that can't be solved with a shovel and bag of quick-lye, Owl.

 

After all, if everyone else feels entitled to follow through on their impulses and "feelings" - then why shouldn't you? Why does everyone expect the victims of these circumstances to behave any more civil then the perpetrators? - All's fair in love and war, right?

 

A good lawyer and a plea of temporary insanity should get you off the hook. Just be sure not to leave the bloody glove behind the house like OJ; or toss your buddy's severed nut sack out the car window like Bobbit.

 

I'm playing the devil's advocate, of course. But the point I’m trying to make is that I think it's absolutely laughable when people come here boo-hooing about being called a name or being blamed by their married partner's spouse. They ought to drop to their knees and thank whatever powers that be that they not only escaped with the booby prize…but with their very lives!

 

Unfortunately, some affair partner's weren't that lucky...

[SadAndLonely]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

BS yourself, the post wasn't directed at you. In fact, I didn't even read your little gem until I'd finished typing and then posted it.

..

If you'd bother to actually read my post you'd understand we're essentially saying the same thing.

 

I tend to get annoyed when someone tells someone else that their opinion doesn't matter. I'm a big fan of the "I don't agree with what you say, but will defend, to the death, your right to say it." I don't think someone HAS to be in the same position to understand. For example, I don't smoke pot. But I can say that I think it's wrong. I have CHOSEN not to smoke pot. Just like I have CHOSEN not to ever get involved with a married man, even if I truly loved him. At one point there WAS a man whom I loved who I found out was involved. I walked away because I knew it was the right thing to do. For a long time I regretted the fact that he was involved, and thought he was my soulmate, but still didn't pursue him because he was involved. For the record, he DID know how I felt about him. Years later I realized he wasn't my soulmate at all.

 

Regarding your second comment above, I DID read your post, and I DID realize that we're both essentially saying some of the same things. However, along with the freedom to post about something I seemingly have no business saying anything about is the freedom to choose what to respond to. I tend not to post agreements with people, because usually they said it well enough themselves.

 

SadAndLonely also has no problem posting or saying what's on SadAndLonely's mind, and never has. In fact, SadAndLonely has intimidated quite a few people and alienated SadAndLonely because of this.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by SadAndLonely

I tend to get annoyed when someone tells someone else that their opinion doesn't matter. I'm a big fan of the "I don't agree with what you say, but will defend, to the death, your right to say it." I don't think someone HAS to be in the same position to understand. For example, I don't smoke pot. But I can say that I think it's wrong. I have CHOSEN not to smoke pot. Just like I have CHOSEN not to ever get involved with a married man, even if I truly loved him. At one point there WAS a man whom I loved who I found out was involved. I walked away because I knew it was the right thing to do. For a long time I regretted the fact that he was involved, and thought he was my soulmate, but still didn't pursue him because he was involved. For the record, he DID know how I felt about him. Years later I realized he wasn't my soulmate at all.

 

Regarding your second comment above, I DID read your post, and I DID realize that we're both essentially saying some of the same things. However, along with the freedom to post about something I seemingly have no business saying anything about is the freedom to choose what to respond to. I tend not to post agreements with people, because usually they said it well enough themselves.

 

SadAndLonely also has no problem posting or saying what's on SadAndLonely's mind, and never has. In fact, SadAndLonely has intimidated quite a few people and alienated SadAndLonely because of this.

 

I'll say it again-you can all post "don't get involved with a MM" or "stay away from him he's married" or "You need to walk away" but until you've been in that situation your opinion is worthless TO THE OP. It means nothing. Just more moral garbage to be stuffed down one's throat (this is not directed at you)

 

After all, why would the advice of someone who's never loved and agonized over something they couldn't have completely mean anything to someone that is? It's not quite as simple or easy as one might think.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by EnigmaXOXO

No riddle that can't be solved with a shovel and bag of quick-lye, Owl.

 

After all, if everyone else feels entitled to follow through on their impulses and "feelings" - then why shouldn't you? Why does everyone expect the victims of these circumstances to behave any more civil then the perpetrators? - All's fair in love and war, right?

 

A good lawyer and a plea of temporary insanity should get you off the hook. Just be sure not to leave the bloody glove behind the house like OJ; or toss your buddy's severed nut sack out the car window like Bobbit.

 

I'm playing the devil's advocate, of course. But the point I’m trying to make is that I think it's absolutely laughable when people come here boo-hooing about being called a name or being blamed by their married partner's spouse. They ought to drop to their knees and thank whatever powers that be that they not only escaped with the booby prize…but with their very lives!

 

Unfortunately, some affair partner's weren't that lucky...

 

That's a bad comparison. I find it odd and slightly amusing that you compare the end of a marriage to the end of a life, as if one was in any way shape or form as justifiable as the other. An eye for an eye? Not quite.

 

And if all's fair in love and war, then certainly the OW has just as much right to fight for her "man"?

[EnigmaXOXO]

That's a bad comparison. I find it odd and slightly amusing that you compare the end of a marriage to the end of a life…

 

Huh?

 

That's not exactly the point I was trying to make with my post. But now that you mention it - I would compare the end of a marriage to a "death" of sorts. The sense of loss and the grieving process is the same. The only difference is that the corpse is still hanging around, particularly if there are children and mutual friends involved and you must live with that constant reminder every day.

 

The point I was trying to make is that the emotions involved in these twisted triangles are equally inflamed all the way around. One sure fire way to piss off your fellow human is by trespassing upon or trying to take from them something they love - something they've centered they're very lives around. There's a fine line between love and hate, and these situations have a tendency to send people off the deep end.

 

While affair partners often become angry, jealous, spiteful and even vindictive towards their lover and his/her spouse when the affair relationship ends, so can that betrayed husband or wife when they discover that extramarital intruder. I'd hate to imagine living in a world where we ALL felt obliged to act on our feelings, urges and impulses without taking into account consequence or personal responsibility.

 

And if all's fair in love and war, then certainly the OW has just as much right to fight for her "man"?

 

I don't believe any of us have property "rights" over another human being, so the idea of fighting over someone is foreign to me. It would be difficult for me to determine just who that "man" in question actually belonged to. I'd be more inclined to say he was acting as a 'free agent' exercising his inalienable "right" to do whatever he pleased in the pursuit of his own happiness…just like the rest of us.

 

The problem only comes when one person's sense of entitlement or personal quest for happiness infringes upon, or comes at the expense of someone else's. Not many people are going to turn the other cheek and not feel compelled to protect or defend those personal boundaries which they feel another person has so recklessly invaded.

 

I just think when it comes to these situations, it's naïve and somewhat self-serving to expect that everyone involved; or even society in general; should be "polite" and accommodating.

 

Don't you?

[Grinning Maniac]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I'll say it again-you can all post "don't get involved with a MM" or "stay away from him he's married" or "You need to walk away" but until you've been in that situation your opinion is worthless TO THE OP. It means nothing. Just more moral garbage to be stuffed down one's throat (this is not directed at you)

 

After all, why would the advice of someone who's never loved and agonized over something they couldn't have completely mean anything to someone that is? It's not quite as simple or easy as one might think.

 

So people in that type of situation tend to be illogical and ignorant. So what? If someone really wants to be involved with a MM/MW, would a post by an OP telling them to walk away really be so much more convincing than a non-OP saying it, that they would actually back off? I remember a few situations here where someone ignored EVERYONE who tried to convince them otherwise. I can't say for sure without doing a lot of forum-combing, but odds are there had to be a former or current OP among them. People do what they want for the most part. Does being an OP really factor that much into it? I'm pretty sure I get the point that you're trying to make, but I still think we all get ignored equally here.

 

Just because walking away from someone you're attracted to isn't easy, doesn't mean that person shouldn't still walk away. It's a cliche, but sometimes the harder choice is the right one.

 

Enigma made a good point, even though I think he was only joking. If following urges and acting on your emotions, regardless of consequence is perfectly acceptable for the person cheating, why is it not the same for the person being cheated on? It doesn't make much sense that the person cheated on is expected to be the kind and rational one after being lied to and hurt like that. If I were married and found out my wife was sleeping with someone else, it wouldn't be "ok" to take a blowtorch to her face, make the OM a cripple with a bullet to the spine, or burn the guy's house down. But why not? It would be acting on emotion, and restraining yourself in that situation isn't an "easy" thing to do either. Read any thread by a BS and you'll almost always see an admission of wanting revenge. Never mind what the law says, what's the actual difference in responsibility?

 

Just food for thought I guess.

[hotgurl]

I agree with most everyone here.

 

It is very selfish and uncaring to enter a relationship with a mp as is it selfish and unkind for a mp to cheat. It comes down to decency and treating others with respect.

 

Come on golden rule does no one follow it anymore.

 

everyone has urges but most people exericse self control and don't follow through on the urges that are hurtful to fellow humans. I agree where would we be with everyone doing whatever struck their fancy, It's laready bad enough with just about 20% off th epopulation doing whatever they want.

 

I feel for a mm. I knew he had feelings for me. But I wa lked away qnd never once acted on them eventhough I knew they would gladly be reciporacated.

And honestly if he tried something I would have lost a lot of respect for him and probably lost my attraction to him as well.