am the OW and tired of getting blamed!!!!!!

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by Grinning Maniac

Hold on. Am I in Bizarro World? What kind of logic is that? If someone hasn't cheated on someone or helped someone else to cheat, any advice they give on infidelity is worthless? I would think it would give them a less biased opinion on the subject...

 

I've never gone skydiving without a parachute, but I'm sure that it wouldn't end up too well for me if I did it. You're welcome to try and prove me wrong though...

 

The opinion of someone who has never had an affair is just as valid as one of someone who has. We ALL have had experience being human. Everyone in here has someone in their lives who they love and trust(not just talking about romantic relationships). The idea of someone you trust betraying you isn't pleasant to anyone. Nobody deserves that, especially not over a reason as base as "I wanted some on the side". So generally...you will get the answer of "walk away" from people. Seems pretty simple to me. Some things are just common sense, and clear to *most* people as not being good to do. There are plenty of people in the world to be with. Why go through the hassle of pursuing someone who's attached?

 

Also, Spock, I get the feeling that if someone here said that they felt affairs weren't wrong at all, and that we should never think twice about following our sexual urges, regardless of who it hurt... you'd wouldn't even ask if they were "experienced".

 

*Hendrix riff plays in my head*

 

Well, that's my two cents. I just hear that line a lot, and it really seems like a weak attempt at justification to me.

 

You were BORN in bizzarro land...........my point is that until you've been there in the situation of the OW (which is mainly what I was and am referring to) having someone tell you on a message board to just "walk away" doesn't hold much value. ESPECIALLY when there are strong feelings involved-you'll find that a lot of the posters on this forum live in this situation-where they LOVE the man they're seeing but they're too afraid of losing what they do have to make him choose. After all, rejection is painful.

 

And your feeling of what I think must be caused by some kind of indegestion sliding down into your bowels, and not a clear representation of my opinion.

 

I'd also like to point out to you, el smarto, that once again when you haven't BEEN there you don't understand. "Why go through the hassle of pursuing someone who's attached" may seem clear and simple to YOU but to the woman that has fallen for that someone (it's easy for you people, yes you people who haven't BEEN the OP to make generalizations) these are MEN women fall in love with, and not just someone else's husband. I won't even USE the "he never told me" arguement because it's rare that men are that deceptive and most women who do find out, drop them. It's the others, who are well aware, but still manage to fall in love. And why shouldn't they give themselves a chance at happiness? They've got no loyalty to his wife. I just think there is a point in every one of these relationships where ultimatums need to be laid down.

 

And that's hard to do, when you're afraid of losing someone you aren't entirely sure was ever yours to begin with.

[Ladyjane14]

I don't think you can assume, Spock, that are person who is against adultery has never been there.

 

I've been on every side of the 'love triangle' that there is, back in the day of course. But I'm older now and I learned a few things from my experiences.

 

I think it's probably natural to want to stop other people from making the same mistakes that you did. It's born of compassion, and even the 'tough love' that you yourself often display on these boards is designed to help others. (and I have to say, sometimes I'm laughing so hard at your posts that I'm literally crying! Thank you. )

 

I don't usually comment in the OM/OW forum. I think that it should be respected like any other board as a place where people can discuss the issues without fear of condemnation. But you have to admit, this thread is a really BLATENT one! Hard to resist.

 

I know people will be hard-headed. No matter what you say to them they'll just have to go out and learn it for themselves. But OMG! The temptation to tell a few people to just please pull their heads out of their a$$es is ssooooooooo overwhelming sometimes!!!

 

Anyway, I'm not going to read in here anymore. That's the BEST way to avoid saying 'what comes natural'. But before I go, I'll leave you all with this:

 

Why is it that a person who would shrink from disrespecting another based on race, can justify and rationalize attacks on religion or creed? 'Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery' is a belief that is not exclusive to just the religiously zealous, but to moderate believers as well. And both the cheating spouse and the OP are adulterers, equally responsible for the transgression.

 

That's the last 2 cents I can afford to spend in here. I can't trust myself to say anymore.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

I don't think you can assume, Spock, that are person who is against adultery has never been there.

 

I've been on every side of the 'love triangle' that there is, back in the day of course. But I'm older now and I learned a few things from my experiences.

 

I think it's probably natural to want to stop other people from making the same mistakes that you did. It's born of compassion, and even the 'tough love' that you yourself often display on these boards is designed to help others. (and I have to say, sometimes I'm laughing so hard at your posts that I'm literally crying! Thank you. )

 

I don't usually comment in the OM/OW forum. I think that it should be respected like any other board as a place where people can discuss the issues without fear of condemnation. But you have to admit, this thread is a really BLATENT one! Hard to resist.

 

I know people will be hard-headed. No matter what you say to them they'll just have to go out and learn it for themselves. But OMG! The temptation to tell a few people to just please pull their heads out of their a$$es is ssooooooooo overwhelming sometimes!!!

 

Anyway, I'm not going to read in here anymore. That's the BEST way to avoid saying 'what comes natural'. But before I go, I'll leave you all with this:

 

Why is it that a person who would shrink from disrespecting another based on race, can justify and rationalize attacks on religion or creed? 'Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery' is a belief that is not exclusive to just the religiously zealous, but to moderate believers as well. And both the cheating spouse and the OP are adulterers, equally responsible for the transgression.

 

That's the last 2 cents I can afford to spend in here. I can't trust myself to say anymore.

 

 

Missing the point, entirely.

[StillHurtin]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I'll say it right now. I'm sure the last one I decided I'd like to boink wouldn't have to look outside his relationship for sex if he wasn't such a jerk to his SO. I'm sure she'd feel MUCH more sexual if he helped out around the house instead of treating her poorly-the significant extra poundage wouldn't affect her self esteem so much if she felt a little more respected.

 

And you know what? Like I said...until you've been there, this whole disgust at an apparent lack of control business will remain foreign to you all.

 

 

Spock, that is EXACTLY were my marriage failed. B/c he was treating me the way you mentioned in your post. I didn't want to have sex w/ him. WTF would I want to sleep w/ someone who would call me "fat ass, pig, cow."(I was 5'5 and 140 lbs) ???? So, in turn I was total b!tch to him, turned him down for sex all the time, told him to leave me the F#ck alone. Well, he got tired of it. Knew he wasn't making me happy (duh!) and filed for a D, we seperated, and the OW was right there to help him get through it. She told me over the phone that she had no intentions of going after him, but she wanted to help him. She said that he was having a hard time deciding whether he made the mistake of leaving me or not. She asked me several ? like "Do you still love him?" and other questions about my feelings for him. I told her more than what I probably should of in our marriage. I didn't have the facts that she was sleeping w/ him. The both denied it, of course. I didn't have the facts that they were sleeping 2gether for a few more weeks when HER H came to MY door and said he caught them, and other things. Anyhoo, dh would of never felt he had to go outside our marriage for what he was missing in it if HE would of been the one treating me right. Of course the OW was attracted to him (he is an attractive man and women always flirt w/ him) and she knew the marriage was falling apart so she took that opprotunity to be his friend, to be there for him. He turned to her for something he wasn't getting at home. HE is the one to blame of that. SHE is the one to blame for giving him what he was missing at home. They BOTH could of waited until our D was final, not a week after he filed! Ok, maybe the marriage was ending, but SHE knew that dh was having doubts b/c SHE was the one that told me he was depressed at work, he didn't know if he made the right choice in filing for a D and was having second thoughts.

After he broke it off w/ her and told her he wanted to work on his marriage I had the chance to talk to her (she called him, we were seperated). She told me I shouldn't be blaming her for the A, that he went after he first. I flat out told her that was BS b/c she was after him since day one! She didn't deny it. I knew she was after him first b/c I seen her flirt w/ dh all the time at work parties are at work. My best friend that also worked w/ them seen it. The whole damn plant seen it! Her name and "HOMEWRECKING WHORE" were written all over the bathroom stalls in the men's room at dh's work (no, I DID NOT do it!). So I blame both parties for their A. If we would of ended up getting a divorce ALL of this would of been different. He was going to go on w/ his life w/ her and I would of had to accepted it, BUT I wouldn't of liked it b/c I didn't like this woman b4 the A.

Even though he said awful things to me I love him enough to try to make it work, but counseling was a must if he wanted to get back w/ me. The part that pisses me off is that she tried to be my friend, tried to help out by talking dh out of filing for a D (so she said she was going to do) and then she turns around and sleeps w/ him!!! Talk about stabbing someone in the back! This OW is the type of person who doesn't care if a man is married. She told me that. She told me she didn't care if he was married. If she wanted him, she was going after him. NO lie! She told me that over the phone. THIS is the kind of OW that I put a lot of the blame on.

I was the OW many years ago. I was sleeping w/ a man that was in a serious relationship. I fell in love w/ him b4 he started dating her. I was stupid and wrong for sleeping w/ him while he was in a committed relationship but I was so stupid AND in love I didn't care. When he finally ended up getting married to her I let him go. I wasn't going to be sleeping w/ a married man.

[Mr Spock]

Your OW sounds a bit wierd actually. All that talking to you.....

 

Listen, your OW obviously felt a connection with your hubby. And he did too, otherwise he wouldn't have stuck his d*ck in her. Was it made easier by your sh*tty marriage? Yes.

 

I wouldn't call yourself stupid, or wrong. If he'd ended up committing to YOU your life would have been different.

 

 

Obviously if a man is REALLY into you he'll drop whatever he's doing and run to you. That's pretty much my point, you need to see if this guy is INTO you, to even bother seeing if you can have a relationship. And if he doesn't leave, he's not into you.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Missing the point, entirely.

 

Sorry, I thought I was being more clear.

 

 

You know, to comment on the original post, I think that the reason the the OM/OW is so despised, is that the betrayed spouse didn't DO anything directly to him/her.

 

Whatever responsiblity the betrayed spouse had in contributing to the problems in the marriage are not justifications for the OP to DESTROY another person's life. Someone he/she doesn't even really know. All they know is the bullsh*t that the cheating spouse told them.

 

See, I'm a nice person. I'm helpful in my day-to-day. I'm kind and I'm generous. And I rarely hold grudges. But the skank that my husband was fooling around with on the internet didn't know anything like that about me. She was talking to an unhappy man who was fixated on my faults. She was taking a shot at me without knowing who I really am. Why? It could only be because of her cheap-a$$ sense of entitlement. Afterall, she's "in love"!

 

I hate her for that. And yet, I don't hate my husband because some of his issues in the marriage were legitimate. He had a personal gripe with me. She didn't.

 

I think there's an assumption that everyone ought to be civilized when infidelity comes into play. And that it's the cheating spouse's fault entirely because they are the ones that took the vows.

 

All I know is that if the above-mentioned 'skank' had actually touched any part of my husband's body, I would have spent ALL of my time making certain that her life was made just as miserable as mine.

[Matilda]

I also haven't been in the OW forum in a long time. I don't feel it's my place to be here. But since this is a different sort of thread, meaning not a support thread, I thought I'd give my 2 cents.

 

I was single for a long time before I got married the first time. I made a lot of mistakes when I was dating, but one rule I had, was that I would never "date" a married man. There were a couple of married men during that time, that I believe were interested in me, but I actively backed away from being friendly with them for that reason. And I'm not saying I'm so wonderful because I did this, I've certainly made my fair share of mistakes, but at least that's one I didn't make.

 

I just don't think I could ever get over the guilt of knowing that there is a wife and children at home thinking that life is okay. That their husband/daddy is thinking of them first, and supporting and protecting them. I know that said husband will probably do whatever he's going to do with someone else, if it wasn't me, but it was important to me that it not be me that he cheated with. Or maybe, there wouldn't be anybody else, and that marriage would remain intact, and those children would still have a daddy at home. I guess it's just the bad karma or something, that bothers me.

 

Also, I just don't think it's healthy for the OW herself to get involved with a married man. And I think that's been pointed out many times, that OW should want more than someone who just wants to "escape" from their marriage.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

Sorry, I thought I was being more clear.

 

 

You know, to comment on the original post, I think that the reason the the OM/OW is so despised, is that the betrayed spouse didn't DO anything directly to him/her.

 

Whatever responsiblity the betrayed spouse had in contributing to the problems in the marriage are not justifications for the OP to DESTROY another person's life. Someone he/she doesn't even really know. All they know is the bullsh*t that the cheating spouse told them.

 

See, I'm a nice person. I'm helpful in my day-to-day. I'm kind and I'm generous. And I rarely hold grudges. But the skank that my husband was fooling around with on the internet didn't know anything like that about me. She was talking to an unhappy man who was fixated on my faults. She was taking a shot at me without knowing who I really am. Why? It could only be because of her cheap-a$$ sense of entitlement. Afterall, she's "in love"!

 

I hate her for that. And yet, I don't hate my husband because some of his issues in the marriage were legitimate. He had a personal gripe with me. She didn't.

 

I think there's an assumption that everyone ought to be civilized when infidelity comes into play. And that it's the cheating spouse's fault entirely because they are the ones that took the vows.

 

All I know is that if the above-mentioned 'skank' had actually touched any part of my husband's body, I would have spent ALL of my time making certain that her life was made just as miserable as mine.

 

That's not what I'm getting at either. If your husband was sleeping with this woman, having a relationship with her, all I am saying is that it is NOT wrong of her to ask that he give her that relationship in full. IE my thing about ultimatums. If she can take him, he wasn't yours anymore. If he won't go, he was never going to be hers and she should walk away and find someone who WILL be.

[EnigmaXOXO]

" I rather you hurt me with the truth than hurt me with a lie"

 

I like that quote, Dayandnight! It obviously holds some meaning to you since you thought enough to share it with the rest of us. Which leads me to wonder, why then, you would choose to associate yourself with someone who so completely misrepresents those basic ideals?

 

By your own admission:

 

I just think that if he dont respect the idea honesty and faithfulness and hes is willing to go all out and have and affair then why not…

 

…im sure that there will b lies involved…

 

In my humble opinion, I think it’s a waste of good brain cells debating with each other over the "blame game." Your energies might be better spent trying to figure out why on earth you would choose to get all mixed up with someone who has already proven to be dishonest and untrustworthy. If you don't like liars, then it seems only common sense to me that you wouldn't allow yourself to get hooked up with one. More importantly, that you don't allow yourself to become one by getting so immersed in your denial that you end up lying to yourself.

 

It's not even about whether or not you feel guilty at the prospect of hurting his wife and children. I think the saddest part in all of this is that you don't even realize how much emotional harm you have brought upon yourself. Indeed - you are one of the very fortunate few whose married partner has left their spouse (however temporarily) to be with you. But where's the happy ending? --- Your peace of mind?

 

Already, I gather from your posts that you are afraid that you might suffer the same fate as you married man's wife…the OTHER other woman. Why else would you be here on a forum looking for comfort and support rather than in the arms of your lover? Where is that dirty dog anyway while you're plinking away behind your keyboard at night?

 

And then there's this:

 

i know that he has it in him to cheat and if he ever were to cheat on me i would totally understand that there was a leak in our relationship ,

 

Already setting yourself up to take the "blame" again?...Preparing yourself for the inevitable?

 

If you don't like liars, pointing fingers and accepting "blame" for your actions or those of others, then you need to be more cautious and vigilant about protecting yourself. The "me first" attitude is okay, but only when done for the sake of self preservation. Harming yourself and others just because you see something that you want to take isn't okay. That kind of "selfish" behavior usually comes with a heavy price, and you'll notice that people seldom whine and complain until the time comes when they must pay it.

[I Survived]

Wow - someone pushed a hot button here. Well - here's my input.

My current marriage is the product of two people cheating on their spouses. He left his wife and two teenage children for me. My ex and I were divorced a year and a half after the affair was reveiled. I had two teenage children as well.

My current husband and I lived together for seven years and got married a little over two years ago. A year and a half into the marriage he cheated again (via phone and internet). We have resolved that matter and discovered that we were never a couple. We were so ashamed of the pain we caused our children, our spouses, our family and friends, and ourselves that we were just two people living at the same address trying to look like a couple.

 

I know why he cheated again and if you need to place blame - everyone plays a part in it. I did not make him a priority in my life, he didn't know what he needed and couldn't communicate it even if he did, she (the OW) has her own issues. We're human beings and we all drag stuff into our relationships without realizing how it affects us and the people we love.

 

I have mixed feelings - Would I have cheated on my first husband if I had known it would cause so much pain? - probably not. If my husband had known how much pain his recent cheating would cause us would he still have gone through with it? - I don't think so. But if we hadn't done those things, I doubt that we would have ever realized the loving relationship we now have. It's a double-edged sword. There is no easy answer.

[Dewymoon]

Ok I am going to post my two cents here . Being the victim ( I do mean Victim) of a husband who cheated for years. Actually the ow can sit back and say things like " well if you were doing (fill in the Blank) he would not have a reason to look elsewhere.I am here to tell you that most times it is the woman at home that is raising the kids, working, cleaning house, doing laundry, running the household and all the goodies that goes along with that monster of a chore, not to mention making sure her or his spouse is taken care of sexual and emontionally. They dont have the time to see the warning signs. This frees up time for the cheater to look elsewhere. There are alot of excuses on why they can not leave their marriage.... Hence kids, finanical, years in etc... But what that breaks down too is why when they are having thier cake and eating it too. Now on to the second half of the cheating party. You are to blame just as much and the cheater. If you are aware he or she is married. Some do it because they are afiard of real commited relationships, others because of the excitment of getting caught, even others because it makes them feel like they are better then the persons spouse. Bottom line is 2 wrongs NEVER NEVER make a right. And to the OW out there .... slip on the shoes for a moment and think about how you would feel if it was your husband that was out catting around. And remember its always nice to feel like you have won over on the spouse .... But revalute what you think you have won .... Lets say that the cheater gets a divorce and plans on having a life with you... Can you HONESTLY look him or her in the eye and TRUST FOR REAL ???? I dont think so. There will always be doubt , jelously, and mistrust. Because you will think if he or her did that with me while they were married what makes you think you are Special. I believe the Qoute Once a cheater always a cheater. ..... And why would any woman what to sell themselves short to be a 2nd choice is beyond me ..... Please dont think I am being mean ... Just think that the OW and OM needs self respect for themselves and there well be alot less cheating when there is noone to cheat with .... The EX Spouse that kicked his cheating butt to the curb

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

That's not what I'm getting at either. If your husband was sleeping with this woman, having a relationship with her, all I am saying is that it is NOT wrong of her to ask that he give her that relationship in full. IE my thing about ultimatums. If she can take him, he wasn't yours anymore. If he won't go, he was never going to be hers and she should walk away and find someone who WILL be.

 

I do understand what you're saying, Spock, in regards to ultimatums. I just don't think that a OM/OW has any right to make one. (Because they should never have involved themselves with a married person to begin with.)

 

There's just NO possible justification for it if the ramifications of the affair are considered beforehand.

 

It's not incumbant upon ANYONE to respond to a married person's advances. To paraphrase Matilda, just because the opportunity presents itself, a person is not compelled to act upon it.

 

I still have sympathy for the OM/OW. Maybe I'm naive, but I always want to believe the best about people, so I can't quite square it that a person could truly understand the harm that they are doing, and then still do it.

 

If you're an OM or an OW, your assaulting a person who never did ANY personal harm to you. All they did was to have someone/something that you coveted. You're assaulting them on every concievable level; from their actual physical health to their emotional sense of well-being, from their religious and moral values to the security of their family.

 

You're transforming another human being from the person that was to an altogether different personality.....for all time! At that point all you can hope is that your haven't created some hate-filled monster who will turn upon his/her creator. You!

 

That's what would have happened to me. I could try to deny it. I could say I would've somehow found a way to overcome it. But in my heart I know the the caring, good-hearted person that I am would have died, replaced by someone embittered and vindictive and bent on vengeance.

 

How could any person knowingly take responsibility for that? How could they truly understand the harm that they do, and then still do it? If you knew that you were 'Frankenstein-ing' some poor soul who'd done nothing to you, how could you do it?

 

Being "in-love" just doesn't stand up to that.

 

You talk a tough talk, Spock. But your heart is sweet, otherwise you wouldn't give rat's a$$ about other people and you wouldn't be here trying to help them. I can't believe you'd have been willing to be anyone's OW if you knew beforehand the damage you could do. I know I wouldn't have.

[ltomlinson81]

I think that the bottom line is that no matter what comes of an affair, it is wrong to have one. Everyone on this earth has a responsibility as a human being to act with decency and respect for others. Affairs are selfish and deceptive, period. There are far more responsible and dignified ways to find happiness and intimacy than cheating on a significant other or being the OM/OW.

[Owl]

Whatever responsiblity the betrayed spouse had in contributing to the problems in the marriage are not justifications for the OP to DESTROY another person's life. Someone he/she doesn't even really know. All they know is the bullsh*t that the cheating spouse told them.

 

 

Even worse Ladyjane...what if the OM/OW actually KNEW the spouse?? And claimed to be friends with them??? You and I had a similar situation...my wife nearly left me for another man she'd met on the internet...and ONLY on the internet. Sadly, at the peak of their emotional affair, in an attempt to get into the world that my wife had disappeared into, I began gaming together with her and him in an MMORPG that the wife and I had been playing for about a year. That's where she met him. He rapidly became a "friend", and during all of this acted like he liked me immensely.

 

My wife still claims that the friendship he had with me was real. Bulldoodoo! She told me that he admitted to her that he'd been attracted to her from the first...and he knew from day one that she was married!!! His entire relationship with the both of us was FALSE...based on LIES, and trust me, I have NO PITY for him at all. And, while apologizing to all of the OM/OWs here, I heartily wish he gets run over by a beer truck!!!

 

Yes, I have forgiven my wife. Not easy, but I have. She had a lot of issues that lead into what happened...and I had my input to the situation as well. BUT HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING THE ENTIRE TIME!!! He claimed to be my friend...and tried to take my wife!! This HAS changed my personality...for the worse, and likely for a long time to come, if not forever. I have scars that I dont think will EVER go away...thanks to what happened. Had he the least shred of decency, he could have come to me and let me know that my wife was so unhappy...but instead, he TOOK ADVANTAGE of it for his own gains.

 

And, I also will reiterate what I've said before...he made a CHOICE. Anyone who gets into relationship (good or bad), made the CHOICE to do so. And if you go into it knowing that the other person is married...that was your CHOICE. You did so, and trust me, you weren't the only one to suffer for it, regardless of where the MM/MW ended up!

 

Sorry if I offended anyone...please feel free to flame away on me.

[DAYANDNIGHT]

what i was trying to say was that i was tired of the wife saying that it was the ow fault that i broke up the family and their marriage when that bull so not true..in fact way before she found out that he was having an affair she was always telling him to leave and to file for divorce.....so they already had problems in their marriage...so when he does leave and tells her he has been having an affair she gets all crazed out i mean that is stupid...so she calls me every name in the book , why though i know she is mad and all but why does she think it was all me , oh she thinks cus im the other woman i seduced her man , that i tricked her man well that is not the case , my mm was the one persuing me and i eventually gave in but that still makes me the wrong one in her eyes...but why? i dont quit get it... i mean i have been cheated on before and i was mad at my husband not the other woman , he was the one that betrayed me and lied to me , he was the one making excusses to leave the house to go meet up with her , not her i didnt even know her so how can i hate someone i dont even know...my husband (@ the time) could of promised her God only knows what...so i cant sit here and say oh that slut was with my man cus I dont know what story she was feed.....all im saying is that maybe the husbands or wifes should think about is why am i pointing and calling her names when i dont know the whole story..cus there is always 3 parts of the story...1st what she said, 2nd what he said,3rd the truth.....yip i mean and if the affair was a long one.....aaww man he or she must of been feeding a very good story....i was the ow at one point and i have my man now and were together now and i have nothing to be ashamed about, i love him and i walk with my head high and i hope all us other woman can too...God bless...everyone...even the cruel ones...

[Merin]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I'll say it right now. I'm sure the last one I decided I'd like to boink wouldn't have to look outside his relationship for sex if he wasn't such a jerk to his SO. I'm sure she'd feel MUCH more sexual if he helped out around the house instead of treating her poorly-the significant extra poundage wouldn't affect her self esteem so much if she felt a little more respected.

 

And you know what? Like I said...until you've been there, this whole disgust at an apparent lack of control business will remain foreign to you all.

 

Actually Mr. Spock, I have been on BOTH sides of this topic.. so yeah I feel like I might have some idea(s) and points that are valid.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

I do understand what you're saying, Spock, in regards to ultimatums. I just don't think that a OM/OW has any right to make one. (Because they should never have involved themselves with a married person to begin with.)

 

 

You're speaking from the viewpoint who thinks the relationship of the adulterer isn't valid with the OW because the "cheating" should have never taken place.

 

Which is after the fact. I believe, oh yes I do, that the OW has every right to issue an ultimatum. After all, this is a relationship for HER, albiet an unconventional one. No one should be debating how fat his wife is and if she puts out. That's silly. The point is that there are MANY factors that result in a breakdown of a marriage. So your marriage is crap? Well, it takes two to tango.

 

We each are responsible for our own personal happiness. If a man is having an extra marital affair with a woman and claims to love her, then she has every right to ask that he make the comittment to her. And if he can't, she'll know the love is false and be able to move on. Scoff all you want at the term "the heart wants what it wants" but people are attracted to each other for a reason. Of course, the IDEAL situation would be for a failed marriage to dissolve and both partners to move on but life's hardly ideal.

 

 

 

You talk a tough talk, Spock. But your heart is sweet, otherwise you wouldn't give rat's a$$ about other people and you wouldn't be here trying to help them. I can't believe you'd have been willing to be anyone's OW if you knew beforehand the damage you could do. I know I wouldn't have.

 

I don't talk "anything" and I resent you trying to categorize me in any manner.

[immoralist]

The OW/OM has every right to put the her/his MM/MW's feet to the fire. Otherwise the MW/MM will indefinitely string along the OW/OM. The OW/OM, in fact, keeps the damaged marriage alive by providing a much needed outlet for the disaffected MW/MM.

 

Lovers, however, even the OW/OM, want to be more, much more than outlets: A good, easy fu#k for the MW/MM before she/he goes home and dutifully plays the sweet, satisfied spouse role.

 

Yeah, affairs are often ugly, messy, selfish and cruel. But then,so is love. Affairs will stop only when people stop being sexual.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14You talk a tough talk, Spock. But your heart is sweet, otherwise you wouldn't give rat's a$$ about other people and you wouldn't be here trying to help them. I can't believe you'd have been willing to be anyone's OW if you knew beforehand the damage you could do. I know I wouldn't have.

 

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I don't talk "anything" and I resent you trying to categorize me in any manner.

 

What can I say Spock? When you're right. You're right. I thought I had you pegged.

 

I hate being wrong about that. But I'm willing to admit that I was.

 

[Mr Spock]

I agree with Sinner's words. I'm just saying you're speaking like the wronged partner is always right HAS all the rights simply because it's their marriage. Real life doesn't work like that-the OP has just as much right to see if the relationship is real. Sinner's point about being strung along is a good one.

 

Mr Spock has the ultimate luxury - Mr Spock states exactly what's on Mr Spock's mind......that's about all the pegging one could do with Mr Spock.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I agree with Sinner's words. I'm just saying you're speaking like the wronged partner is always right HAS all the rights simply because it's their marriage. Real life doesn't work like that-the OP has just as much right to see if the relationship is real. Sinner's point about being strung along is a good one.[/Quote]

 

Again, you are absolutely correct. "Real life" sucks. I think it's the prevailing hope for each one of us that we can be a better person tomorrow than we were today. It's what keeps us sane and still in the game.

 

 

Mr Spock has the ultimate luxury - Mr Spock states exactly what's on Mr Spock's mind......that's about all the pegging one could do with Mr Spock.

 

S'all Good. Life wouldn't be interesting if everybody agreed on everything.

[Matilda]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Scoff all you want at the term "the heart wants what it wants" but people are attracted to each other for a reason. Of course, the IDEAL situation would be for a failed marriage to dissolve and both partners to move on but life's hardly ideal.

 

I'm not sure this is what you meant, but what I perceive you to be saying is the old: "You just can't help yourself when you're in love." "We're soul mates." "We were meant to be together."

 

I think that's a bunch of BS. (I know how to state exactly what's on my mind too. ) I agree with Owl, you choose to love someone. If you are attracted to someone, you make a choice to follow through with that attraction.

 

And no, life is not ideal, but what are we left with if we don't strive to be better people?

[bluechocolate]

Originally posted by Matilda

I'm not sure this is what you meant, but what I perceive you to be saying is the old: "You just can't help yourself when you're in love." "We're soul mates." "We were meant to be together."

 

I think that's a bunch of BS. (I know how to state exactly what's on my mind too. ) I agree with Owl, you choose to love someone. If you are attracted to someone, you make a choice to follow through with that attraction.

 

And no, life is not ideal, but what are we left with if we don't strive to be better people?

 

I tend to avoid OW threads now because "I just don't understand & I'm blocking communication."

 

What I don't understand is when someone asks "What do I do about my married man?" and "Why is my married partner behaving this way?". Well, the answers seems quite obvious to me --- "Wait until he's divorced & available or find someone else" and "BECAUSE THEY ARE MARRIED!".

 

What is the point in going on about it when the answers are right there in full view?

 

from Spock

I believe, oh yes I do, that the OW has every right to issue an ultimatum.

 

So do I. I guess some people just take a longer time to get to that point. I'm a no-nonsense kinda guy when it comes to stuff like this. If I don't like it & it's within my power to change it then change is gonna come fast. Life's too short for self-inflicted drama & misery.

[kim874]

Maybe you can't prevent who you are attracted to, but you can prevent getting into a relationship with anyone, whether they are married or not.

Considering sex or a relationship to have "just happened" sounds like the classic excuse of a teenager--whom one can excuse for not being an adult and not having more life experience. Everyone else is full of BS.

 

Should the spouse be more angry at the cheating partner? You bet--but people's emotions rarely follow a written path of rules. People don't want to believe that someone who claimed to love them would deliberately disregard their feelings for the person's own selfishness. But it's unrealistic for any OM or OW to feel they shouldn't take some of the heat for their own selfish behavior.

 

Married or single, gay or straight, I've honestly never heard anyone say that they enjoyed being cheated on.

[blind_otter]

The anger of the spouse who is cheated on is always justified, I think...I mean if it's all crazy and they kill you or do property damage that's one thing, but she called you names, big deal - if you don't feel like that it shouldn't matter and you can shrug it off.

 

I think a lot of people have been on multiple sides of love triangles, been cheated on, cheated on someone. I know way too many people who have, including myself. Infidelity happens when the people involved do not respect the sanctity of a relationship, period. Not because so and so didn't do this or that. In the end, if you have any decency or respect (and I know full well when I cheated, I didn't and I wasn't and it was stupid and shameful) - you wait until your previous relationship is over before engaging in anything with anyone else.

 

Having two relationships simultaneously is selfish and stupid and there's really NO reason to do it. It's also a matter of respecting yourself. If you respect yourself you feel that you deserve to be #1 in any relationship you're involved in. Infidelity involves not only dishonesty with your spouse, but also with yourself.

 

It's great that your relationship worked out and you are deliriously happy. In my case I tired to establisha relaitonship with the person I cheated on my husband with, but it never worked. I felt too guilty, and my OM in all honesty, lacked morals and a basic level of repsect for relationships as a whole. My situation was different because my OM approached ME, I was in the process of dividing assets and separating with an emotionally distant husband and I just wanted a diversion from feeling lonely. I used my OM because, quite simply, I was afraid to be alone....and honestly, people who springboard from relationship to relationship with no downtime in between often suffer this problem, they don't necessarily want or need the relationship but they are terrified of being alone, so they use another person, ANY other person, to fill the gaping emptiness they feel inside themselves.

 

It's unhealthy, it's never a wise choice.

 

I have learned one thing in my short 25 years. Love isn't a reason to have a relationship with someone. You can love someone, yet it can be impossible to be with that person....there are a f*ck ton of other important factors in building a successful relationship, and staying in an unhealthy interaction "because I love him" is a cop out.