Outing PUA tactics!

[ThaWholigan]

I remember reading a couple of PUA sites soon after that Sodini thing to see what they were saying about it. I saw a lot of "if only he'd come here/taken advice from some of us/we could have sorted the guy out..." It brought to me how delusional some of them are. When the PUA stuff was popular several years back there seemed to be this belief amongst its followers that they were tapping into some secret well of knowledge about human behaviour.

 

You'd think "come on - just read some basic psychology. Attachment theory, object relations theory - all of this PUA stuff is just a watered down version of theories that any person who's done a basic course in human behaviour is going to be familiar with." Yet if you were to direct any one of them to the source theories, unless you were an established PUA guru you would probably be met with sneers and mockery.

 

This is why I'm a Carlos Xuma fan. Some people think he's just a guy who copies others, but he compiled a lot of info and actually sourced the original people involved in the theories behind PUA, both good and bad.

 

You are right though.

[GorillaTheater]

So, basic social skills?

 

You'd think they'd be basic, but how many people do you know who lack them?

[Star Gazer]

I'd also like to point out that the vast majority (but clearly not all!) of men who defend PUA techniques have little-to-no relationship experience.

[GorillaTheater]

I agree; problem is, the guys that seek out help with women on the interwebz rely on the BS form, not the "be a genuine, engaging guy" with common sense and social skills-form (which, IMO, can't really be taught - it's innate).

 

If Wholigan says that some aspects of PUA has helped him, I'll take him at his word. I hope we can agree that he's a pretty cool guy and not an evil manipulator.

[ThaWholigan]

So, basic social skills?

 

Basic social skills - that girls tend to know better than boys. Or so the theories generally state.

 

Girls tend to have tighter social game than guys do, at least in my experience, due to the differences in how they are raised. Some of us can really be terrible when it comes to girls.

 

I agree; problem is, the guys that seek out help with women on the interwebz rely on the BS form, not the "be a genuine, engaging guy" with common sense and social skills-form (which, IMO, can't really be taught - it's innate).

 

If it's innate, then how's a "struggling guy" meant to learn how to be one?

[Star Gazer]

If it's innate, then how's a "struggling guy" meant to learn how to be one?

 

I don't think any human being can learn to be genuine. They either are, or they aren't.

[fortyninethousand322]

I agree; problem is, the guys that seek out help with women on the interwebz rely on the BS form, not the "be a genuine, engaging guy" with common sense and social skills-form (which, IMO, can't really be taught - it's innate).

 

If it's innate, then those guys really have no other choice than to seek out other forms of help.

 

I mean, unless they're supposed to live a lifetime of celibacy...

[Star Gazer]

If Wholigan says that some aspects of PUA has helped him, I'll take him at his word. I hope we can agree that he's a pretty cool guy and not an evil manipulator.

 

:shrug:

 

I think getting laid for the first time boosted his confidence, and he's been able to be himself ever since. I don't see insincere gamesmanship coming from him, anywhere.

[Treasa]

You'd think they'd be basic, but how many people do you know who lack them?

 

Ha, good point.

[fortyninethousand322]

If it's innate, then how's a "struggling guy" meant to learn how to be one?

 

That's the secret. They're not. They're supposed to be celibate forever.

 

And they say social Darwinism doesn't exist...

[Star Gazer]

If it's innate, then those guys really have no other choice than to seek out other forms of help.

 

I mean, unless they're supposed to live a lifetime of celibacy...

 

This goes back to what I said before: You're going to use a woman for your benefit. That's gross.

[Treasa]

ThaWholigan, I think, had it all along, though. It was just latent until something brought it out of him.

[ThaWholigan]

This goes back to what I said before: You're going to use a woman for your benefit. That's gross.

So the only option is celibacy?

 

Or do you learn to become a more genuine and better person?

 

[Lansing]

Anyone remember Barry Kirkey.... Oh man... I miss his show... ha

 

Re: PUA, I won't "defend" it but there are definitely some things that can be learned on there. Most of the newer PUA stuff was moving away from tactics when I was still reading it and towards being a "natural". Like, doing things that real people who have success in women do.

 

One thing that is a good emphasis is to not have "oneitis". Not really a technique but something to learn and act on. Have options.

 

 

The "Techniques" that have been most important in my development have been things like "don't become dependent on the outcome" , "bring value to the girl", "leave her better off", etc, etc. Not so much games/techniques.

 

If you read some of those forums you see the guys really struggle how to figure out what girls are doing. The guys who are real "players" are probably not the guys reading the PUA stuff in my opinion. They are probably the naturals who are also very physically attractive and can get the girls wrapped around their fingers.

[sillyanswer]

Right. What sh*t tests do men do?

 

Us men would never stoop so low as to set a sh.t test.

 

From a PUA point of view (and I'm far from an expert having largely ignored it) it's the women who do sh,t tests and the men who have to 'pass' them by avoiding whatever elephant trap she sets.

[tbf]

If Wholigan says that some aspects of PUA has helped him, I'll take him at his word. I hope we can agree that he's a pretty cool guy and not an evil manipulator.

TW is the type of guy who's pretty good at analyzing behaviours and has an innate sense of social balance. He's got boundaries for his behaviours and doesn't strictly stick to PUA, sourcing from different sources, including non-PUA.

 

Smart guys figure out that PUA models are too simplistic and while they might work to get some ONSs, what they also figure out is that it's less the technique and more the chemistry between boy meets girl that gets them laid.

[GorillaTheater]

:shrug:

 

I think getting laid for the first time boosted his confidence, and he's been able to be himself ever since. I don't see insincere gamesmanship coming from him, anywhere.

 

Neither do I. Nor do I believe that learning some basic social skills equates to being un-genuine.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Keep in mind that just because a guy is using PUA, doesn't mean that he doesn't like you or just wants to game you. Some guys (mistakenly) think it will greatly increase their chances..

 

Back when I had a crush on my boss, I read The Art of Seduction and tried some tactics. I thought it would increase my chances

[Treasa]

The "Techniques" that have been most important in my development have been things like "don't become dependent on the outcome" , "bring value to the girl", "leave her better off", etc, etc. Not so much games/techniques.

 

 

I actually find myself saying this more to females than I do to males. I think these are good things for both genders to know.

[white]

So, basic social skills?

 

Uh, no not really. It's very easy to live life in the company of men alone. Particularly throughout the entirity of your formative years. I know guys, yes more than one, who are an absolute blast amongst blokes, the kind of guys you want at any gathering, who are hopeless with women. Hopeless, sometimes not even for clear reasons, like they must be exuding bad pheromones you can't see but the women can pick up. They have great social skills. Just not with women, who are after all not just only half the population, but actively segregate themselves (the entire basis of why we must as men and women "meet").

[Treasa]

Uh, no not really. It's very easy to live life in the company of men alone. Particularly throughout the entirity of your formative years. I know guys, yes more than one, who are an absolute blast amongst blokes, the kind of guys you want at any gathering, who are hopeless with women. Hopeless, sometimes not even for clear reasons, like they must be exuding bad pheromones you can't see but the women can pick up. They have great social skills. Just not with women, who are after all not just only half the population, but actively segregate themselves (the entire basis of why we must as men and women "meet").

 

Maybe they're picking the wrong women. Sounds like the kind of guy I'd want to be around, but then, I have been told I am not typical. I am, really, just not when compared to some other women.

[Star Gazer]

TW is the type of guy who's pretty good at analyzing behaviours and has an innate sense of social balance. He's got boundaries for his behaviours and doesn't strictly stick to PUA, sourcing from different sources, including non-PUA.

 

Smart guys figure out that PUA models are too simplistic and while they might work to get some ONSs, what they also figure out is that it's less the technique and more the chemistry between boy meets girl that gets them laid.

 

Precisely.

[Treasa]

Keep in mind that just because a guy is using PUA, doesn't mean that he doesn't like you or just wants to game you. Some guys (mistakenly) think it will greatly increase their chances..

 

Back when I had a crush on my boss, I read The Art of Seduction and tried some tactics. I thought it would increase my chances

 

How did that work out?

[sillyanswer]

I'd also like to point out that the vast majority (but clearly not all!) of men who defend PUA techniques have little-to-no relationship experience.

 

Yes, and in it's purest form PUA is all about getting the number, getting the first date, and in some cases getting sex. It isn't about turning it into a relationship.

[ThaWholigan]

Uh, no not really. It's very easy to live life in the company of men alone. Particularly throughout the entirity of your formative years. I know guys, yes more than one, who are an absolute blast amongst blokes, the kind of guys you want at any gathering, who are hopeless with women. Hopeless, sometimes not even for clear reasons, like they must be exuding bad pheromones you can't see but the women can pick up. They have great social skills. Just not with women, who are after all not just only half the population, but actively segregate themselves (the entire basis of why we must as men and women "meet").

 

I think this is where I believe that people have a different dynamic socially and it's about meeting people who respond in kind to yours - particularly where women come into play, as a man. Knowing what women to meet and where.

 

I found that acclimatising myself to female company definitely helped me in being able to communicate easily with women. It's still difficult for me at times, but then again, it's difficult with guys sometimes too.