My gf kissed another guy :((

[Fraser]

How does a thread change your mind on something so important? Think about this particular issue, and be honest with yourself.

Sorry that was a typo, I meant I didn't - I didn't think I was particually more forgiving than most people but apparently a lot of people wold have dumped her no questions asked.

 

Yeah, you should expect some sort of manipulation in most relationships you're in.

Manipulation..

[Fraser]

OP-starter you sound really smart and have played it perfectly in the OP.

Thank you

 

There's no "right answer". I would tell her I'll take a week to myself. Then take 2 or 3, or whatever it takes for the feelings to go away and for you to think logically.

This is true, in the start I was mad, I'm not mad anymore I just want to make sure i make the right decision for me and for us now.

 

At that point I would weigh all positives and negatives.

Honestly if a girl is perfect in every other way I would forgive it, but if she's not, then you should cut your losses and be thankful she did it sooner rather than later.

Yeah I mean I can't deny I love being with her and she makes me happy and I miss her. I mean I'm not living in some fairytale she takes hoursss to get ready, she re-organises all my stuff, she constantly asks questions the entire wary through any gripping suspense film! But her good points far out weigh all of that and to be honest - she always looks drop dead, the way she organises stuff makes more sense and I have a soft spot for her 'who's that?', 'why did he give that to her', 'is that a bomb?'

I love her and if it hadn't been for this I was more likely to go after a career in space flight than I was dump her, the kiss is the only thing that's got me all shook up.

 

EDIT: I read her explanation and honestly it doesn't sound as bad as it could have been.

I guess not ....I mean if deffo could of been worse

 

What I'd do at this point is just ask her how she would make sure you guys NEVER have problesm like this and how she's gonna regain your trust

Yeah I like that, I'll definitely put that too her

- thanks!

[Fraser]

I think it might have survived if she wasn't some one with no boundaries who basically gives a non answer as to why she cheated. She did cheat though so yeah you're going to waste your youth on this girl you can never feel great about again. The way you kind of feel like crap now is how you will feel if you keep dating her.

Can I ask you a question? Everyone keeps banding around the world boundaries - what even does that entail?

 

Also it doesn't make you a jealous guy to not want your gf going to meet with random dudes alone. When her friend canceled she should have too. Also some possessiveness over your women is required.

I guess, I guess I just trusted her so totally, maybe too much

 

...and also I'm no hypocrite, I know girls who I'll go for a drink with..

[Simon Phoenix]

Can I ask you a question? Everyone keeps banding around the world boundaries - what even does that entail?

 

Also it doesn't make you a jealous guy to not want your gf going to meet with random dudes alone. When her friend canceled she should have too. Also some possessiveness over your women is required.

I guess, I guess I just trusted her so totally, maybe too much

 

...and also I'm no hypocrite, I know girls who I'll go for a drink with..

 

Well, in a perfect world yes, she should do what she wants without you worrying about what could happen and you should do what you want without her worrying about what would happen. But that is done now -- she blew that.

 

In general, it's not great to be spending a lot of one-on-one time with a person of the opposite sex when you are in a relationship. (Obviously I'm just referring to hetero relationships here). I mean, every girl friend I've had I rarely hung out with one-on-one when either a) I was involved or b) they were involved. We'd hang out in groups, but rarely one-on-one.

 

I remember one friend I would hang out with one-on-one. She was the younger sister of another female friend of mine and had a long-distance boyfriend. Well, within a couple hangouts she was drunk and wanting to sleep with me despite being involved. I refused because she had a boyfriend and it wasn't right. Eventually she broke up with him and we started to hook up, but I always felt bad about my role in that whole thing, even though she never technically cheated on him with me.

 

But yeah, opposite-sex friendships should take a step back when one or both people are involved in romantic relationships. You don't have to ditch them, but just keep it a little more detached than it would be otherwise. That means very few one-on-ones (at least until your partner has met and is comfortable with the friend) and very little flirty behavior. The women who I'm platonic friends with I don't flirt with and they don't flirt with me. We hug each other upon greeting and leaving, but there isn't much touching besides that. I treat them like I treat a guy friend, no cuddling, no caressing, no touching of shoulders, no holding them by their hips, none of that. Your girlfriend went past a platonic touch with the guy, he kissed her, she kissed back. None of that would have happened if she had proper boundaries on how to interact with platonic guy friends.

 

Now I'm not saying the way I operate is the best way. Just giving examples of boundaries.

[Simon Phoenix]

You need to learn to respect yourself. Life is very short, and you shouldn't waste your time doing things that lead you to be unhappy, and uncomfortable.

 

You're going to have to learn that what you want matters. When people cross a certain boundary (cheating, insulting you, etc.), you need to take it more seriously. Forget about the girls, this is about you.

 

Many people here are worried that your girlfriend has been taking advantage of your kindness, and I suspect she has.

 

When she bats her eyelashes, acts innocent, panders to you too much, etc. Some of it is real, but many young women use things like that to manipulate men.

 

Just how much do you give her?

 

Yep, that's one of my big concerns in this situation. There's a difference between being a nice guy and a pushover. People will test the limits of that.

[Fraser]

You need to learn to respect yourself.

I feel like I do, I'm not arrogant but I don't lack confidence.

 

Life is very short, and you shouldn't waste your time doing things that lead you to be unhappy, and uncomfortable.

Totally agree, 100%

 

You're going to have to learn that what you want matters. When people cross a certain boundary (cheating, insulting you, etc.), you need to take it more seriously. Forget about the girls, this is about you.

maybe I do - im a very easy going guy, im not the kind of guy to hold a grudge cause like you say lifes too short. With Megan thou theres never been anything to 'take more seriously', we've been happy - shes a similar disposition to me I guess, although shes probably more so. Id always help people if I can, but not at detriment to myself and the people I love, but Meg goes above and beyond - she's a people pleaser.

 

Many people here are worried that your girlfriend has been taking advantage of your kindness, and I suspect she has.

 

When she bats her eyelashes, acts innocent, panders to you too much, etc. Some of it is real, but many young women use things like that to manipulate men.

 

Just how much do you give her?

 

Just how much do I give her as in? ...time? money? her own way? or all of it?

I do do nice things for her, I do try and look after her and treat her good - only cause I love her and she totally deserves it, she does everything for everyone, including me! (another reason why this whole thing knocked me for six as much as it did)

I don't really know what you mean by 'take advantage of me'?

[Fraser]

Well, in a perfect world yes, she should do what she wants without you worrying about what could happen and you should do what you want without her worrying about what would happen. But that is done now -- she blew that.

yeah and this is where a big part of my issue lies - I liked the fact our relationship was like that - completely trust in each other, drama free. I don't want to be worrying about if who shes with - I don't want to take responsibility for keeping tabs on her and who shes with .... I just feel like she'll either be faithful to me or she wont and if it takes me monitoring her activities to keep her faithful then I don't want that! I want to be with someone who's faithful to me because they want to be faithful to me. I feel like that's her responsibility and if she cant handle it then we're dust. I dunno, I just, that's my reaction.

 

In general, it's not great to be spending a lot of one-on-one time with a person of the opposite sex when you are in a relationship. (Obviously I'm just referring to hetero relationships here). I mean, every girl friend I've had I rarely hung out with one-on-one when either a) I was involved or b) they were involved. We'd hang out in groups, but rarely one-on-one.

 

I remember one friend I would hang out with one-on-one. She was the younger sister of another female friend of mine and had a long-distance boyfriend. Well, within a couple hangouts she was drunk and wanting to sleep with me despite being involved. I refused because she had a boyfriend and it wasn't right. Eventually she broke up with him and we started to hook up, but I always felt bad about my role in that whole thing, even though she never technically cheated on him with me.

 

But yeah, opposite-sex friendships should take a step back when one or both people are involved in romantic relationships. You don't have to ditch them, but just keep it a little more detached than it would be otherwise. That means very few one-on-ones (at least until your partner has met and is comfortable with the friend) and very little flirty behavior. The women who I'm platonic friends with I don't flirt with and they don't flirt with me. We hug each other upon greeting and leaving, but there isn't much touching besides that. I treat them like I treat a guy friend, no cuddling, no caressing, no touching of shoulders, no holding them by their hips, none of that. Your girlfriend went past a platonic touch with the guy, he kissed her, she kissed back. None of that would have happened if she had proper boundaries on how to interact with platonic guy friends.

 

Now I'm not saying the way I operate is the best way. Just giving examples of boundaries.

 

Thanks that makes a lot of sense!

I have some girl friends and I do spend time with some one on one - especially girls in my swim team, cause I might have to go to meets with them or we might have a training session together - but like you pointed out I treat them very much like guy mates I guess. I guess like you say id only hug them in like greeting, celebration or if there upset, theres no more physical contact than that.

[Fraser]

Yep, that's one of my big concerns in this situation. There's a difference between being a nice guy and a pushover. People will test the limits of that.

 

See I don't think im a pushover - im laid back, easy going, I don't kick up a fuss if it can be avoided but I don't think im a pushover.

[MrRightNow]

Your girlfriend cheated. Perhaps not all the way, but no doubt she's been thinking about other guys. She disrespected you, humiliated you, etc. That is how you should you think. Your own feelings, integrity, pride, etc., should be high on what you value in life.

 

Your owe nothing to your ex-girlfriend. If you truly want her back, that is fine. Just know that you owe her nothing.

 

Very well said. The cheating also took place while she was completely sober and right after the OP had taken her on a nice trip to Paris. What kind of girl does that to a guy she supposedly wants to marry? Your deserve better, Fraser

[Iama]

It's not about confidence. It's about being invested in your own well-being. Taking offense to manipulation, lies, and insults. It's about taking a stand for yourself.

 

If every single person here told you "oh it was just a kiss forgive her", you would probably do just that. That is NOT the type of mindset you should have.

 

Your girlfriend cheated. Perhaps not all the way, but no doubt she's been thinking about other guys. She disrespected you, humiliated you, etc. That is how you should you think. Your own feelings, integrity, pride, etc., should be high on what you value in life.

 

Your owe nothing to your ex-girlfriend. If you truly want her back, that is fine. Just know that you owe her nothing.

 

Don't listen to this.

 

The last thing you want is take a decision irrationally, just beacause your pride got hurt.

 

The real question here is would you be happier in the future with your girl or not. If you think this has caused trust-damage that is not repairable, or if you think she might cause problems like this again and therefore in both cases make you unhappy, then you shouldn't be with her.

 

However if you rationally think that she will make you happy, then why not?. Only you know your girl so only you can decide. But try to detach yourself from the emotions, the good ones (you loving her) and the bad ones (you despising her for what she did)

 

Said all this, again, I think the best approach is handing her the problem and letting her solve it. For your peace of mind if anything. Why should you worry on what to do for a problem you did not create? Let her worry.

[HiddenUser]

I know exactly how you feel, man. I celebrated my one year anniversary with my ex and then a few days later found out she'd done the exact same thing. It's making me feel physically ill just to read your story. This is where emotional scars come from.

 

I would tell you not to get back with her. She totally disrespected you. This lapse in judgment **** doesn't exist. She knew you were her boyfriend. She remembered your trip to Paris. She didn't care enough about you not to kiss someone else. She shoved you aside to be passionate with another man. This type of **** pisses me off because it RUINS people. Whatever you do, OP, do not let this change you. You did nothing wrong. If you let this change you, you're going to live a life that you don't want to live. TELL HER how you feel and then TELL HER OFF!

[therhythm]

Wow guys.... it was just a kiss and she felt bad and confessed right away... are you really measuring the crime against the consequences in the right way?

What about Fraser... will he be happier without his girlfriend to satisfy some guys projected hurt and bitterness into his case?

 

What she did was wrong... if you can't accept it by all means just go and break the relationship but if you feel you can work around it and you understand how stupid was what she did and how fast she felt bad and came to you with the truth... then maybe you still can be happy with her...

 

Anyhow if you decide to take her back she should not go 1 to 1 with any guy till she learns boundaries... she has her boundaries totally wrongly set up.

[Fraser]

I just got home and she'd apparently been and delivered this box to my brother.

When I opened there was this little silver tin full of stuff - like a album of pictures of us as well as crazy things that I genuinely cant believe she kept all this time like her ticket to the first swim meet she came to watch me in, the card of the café where we met, the movie stubs from when we bought tickets to the wrong movie, train tickets, stupid little thins id given her, this little rock I gave her like a year ago when we were on the beach cause it was vaguely (but not really) heart shaped. Just everything. Last year I had to be abroad on her birthday and id hid her present in her house and then id hid clues around her house and she's kept every single clue in this tin.

 

And she'd written me a card saying

I know i've f--ked up, i'd give the world to turn back time Fraser but I cant and that kills me. I would do anything, anything to make it up to you, you mean the world to me. Do what makes you happy darling, if you cant trust me anymore or you want nothing to do with me then your within your rights but please just trust one more thing I say - never ever ever doubt how amazing you are and how much I love you Fraser

 

I don't really feel like I can ignore that I feel I owe her a text at least, not really sure how to respond to that though

...its all so complicated

[therhythm]

Fraser, you just got dumped.

 

Sorry buddy.

 

What??? dumped??? She is telling him that is his choice... how manipulative can someone become?

 

Fraser please... stop posting here and analyse your relationship by your own... people here are not invested in your relationship... they are bitter for their own bad experiences that they project to you.

 

It is you the one who needs to decide if what she did is something unforgivable or not... only you. Think about you and how would you feel the best.

 

Don't allow other peoples ego and bitterness play with your life... they are playing God with your life!

[therhythm]

I just got home and she'd apparently been and delivered this box to my brother.

When I opened there was this little silver tin full of stuff - like a album of pictures of us as well as crazy things that I genuinely cant believe she kept all this time like her ticket to the first swim meet she came to watch me in, the card of the café where we met, the movie stubs from when we bought tickets to the wrong movie, train tickets, stupid little thins id given her, this little rock I gave her like a year ago when we were on the beach cause it was vaguely (but not really) heart shaped. Just everything. Last year I had to be abroad on her birthday and id hid her present in her house and then id hid clues around her house and she's kept every single clue in this tin.

 

And she'd written me a card saying

I know i've f--ked up, i'd give the world to turn back time Fraser but I cant and that kills me. I would do anything, anything to make it up to you, you mean the world to me. Do what makes you happy darling, if you cant trust me anymore or you want nothing to do with me then your within your rights but please just trust one more thing I say - never ever ever doubt how amazing you are and how much I love you Fraser

 

I don't really feel like I can ignore that I feel I owe her a text at least, not really sure how to respond to that though

...its all so complicated

 

@rythm:

Yes of course she dumped him. She 1) cheated on him, publicly; 2) texted him that she's not trustworthy; 3) returned all the keepsakes along with what amounts to a "Dear John" letter, where she's saying "It's not you, it's me." (A dumper's cliche.) She's taking all the blame on the surface but she's clearly dumped him.

 

He dumped her and she immediately wanted to get back with him because he was strong. Then he showed himself indecisive and weak which made up the gf's mind for sure.

 

 

Please read the bolded... you are so biased that just read what you want to read... why don't you for one second stop thinking about your ego or your own feelings and try to meet Fraser in the exact point he is at this moment... For him she is important and she made a mistake and she recognize it right away... everyone deserves a second opportunity... specially for something as stupid as this. If he will be unhappy with her...then I agree, dump her but not for ego... that is a very stupid move to do.

[therhythm]

As if anyone here is deluded enough to think he won't make the choice he set out to make. We already know, just worried about his future with this girl, or anyone else he gets into a serious relationship with.

 

It's very important for someone to take time to grow into themselves before committing. I mad the mistake of getting married too young, and that marriage ended with a cold, depressing, note.

 

Fraser look to the bolded... that is what I am trying to tell you... people project their own mistakes and their own bad experiences into you... their story has of course nothing to do with yours but they think that since something didn't work for them it will not work for anyone else...

[therhythm]

You quoted from OP's ex's "Dear John" letter, as if anything she writes should have credibility.

 

Except you ignored her statement that she is untrustworthy.

 

I respect a woman enough to take her at her word.

 

She's untrustworthy and she keeps on demonstrating it by her actions.

 

Keep your eye on the ball.

 

Can you explain me how she keeps demonstrating by her actions that she is untrustworthy... she is ashamed of what she did and therefore she said that she is untrustworthy? She is doing everything for him, she has told him the truth and let the decision in his hands which is the most honorable that a person can do in her circumstances... man... your fanaticism is incredible...

 

It has to be good to be so perfect and never making mistakes!

[therhythm]

Or more likely she was just playing a game.

 

Collecting trinkets and souvenirs was more important to her than the integrity of the relationship itself. Her conduct of kissing another guy in public (if that's all it was) shows the trinkets were meaningless totems. Symbols of a romantic fantasy perhaps. In the end they are so meaningless to her (because the relationship is so meaningless) that they are just an annoying reminder of someone she doesn't want to think about any longer.

 

OP This^^^^ is what we call speculation...just making up his own stories without any base on it...

[MrRightNow]

The return of all the treasures and keepsakes means she's "nexted" him both actually and symbolically.

 

I don't know, dude. I think it's a desperate attempt to show Fraser how much he meant to her. She's hoping that stuff will remind him of all the good times they had and special moments they shared. I would be pretty moved by that letter, even if I was still pissed off at her.

[therhythm]

1. She kissed another guy in public. At least kissed.

 

Yes... that is clear, if that wouldn't have happen we would not be here. She made a poor choice and she regret it right away and confessed to OP (thus giving OP the chance to make his own decisions)

 

2. She told him she was untrustworthy.

 

Of course she says that... she kissed another guy, she cheated and she feels horrible about it... just that she recognize that is a positive rather than a negative! If OP was to take her back she needs to learn boundaries... big time!

 

3. Contrary to your false claim, she's not "doing everything" for him. She didn't let him make the decision of whether the relationship should continue or not, and if so, on what terms. She wouldn't even give him a little more time to decide. If the keepsakes meant something in the first place then returning them means she's done.

 

No, she is giving him the freedom to choose what he wants... is clear in her note... it is up to him... the perks is just an emotional symbol... she wanted him to know that she had those things from him. She wants to be forgiven.

Sorry if you can't understand that. You can lead a horse to water and all....

 

I am not the blind here... your hatred and ego do not allow you to see anything but one option... you can't even accept that there are people who chose for reconciling... that is your problem... and therefore your advise will be always biased... you only contemplate one option

[Fraser]

Or more likely she was just playing a game.

 

Collecting trinkets and souvenirs was more important to her than the integrity of the relationship itself. Her conduct of kissing another guy in public (if that's all it was) shows the trinkets were meaningless totems. Symbols of a romantic fantasy perhaps. In the end they are so meaningless to her (because the relationship is so meaningless) that they are just an annoying reminder of someone she doesn't want to think about any longer.

 

Woahhh buddy steady..

A) She's definitely not dumping me, she's texting me how much she loves me and wants to try again every 10 seconds.

B)And she didn't say she was untrustworthy, only that she'd understand if I found her so. And I respect that - I respect that a lot more than if she wrote me some letter about how I shouldn't not trust her despite the fact she broke my trust.

 

I get that your trying to help me but, don't look for things that aren't there, y'know? Like her actions have hurt me and our relationship and that is an issues - but the letter was nice, not an issue in itself!

[Fraser]

I don't know, dude. I think it's a desperate attempt to show Fraser how much he meant to her. She's hoping that stuff will remind him of all the good times they had and special moments they shared. I would be pretty moved by that letter, even if I was still pissed off at her.

 

I don't confess to know much, and I'm pretty confused and I'm definitely no expert in the workings of girls minds but I'm pretty sure that was at least the aim of her gesture...she's not breaking up with me trust me on that one!

[therhythm]

Thank you for posting this, hits the nail on the head of the attitude of a cheating woman like OP's ex.

 

OP always has the freedom to choose as he wants. It's only the cheater who believes the betrayed person needs the cheater's permission to exercise the betrayed's freedom of choice.

 

"I set you free if I want to, if I don't, you're not free." That's the way a cheater thinks and that's exactly why OP's ex had no problem cheating on him in a very public way.

 

If she would have not disclosed what she did he would have no option to choose what he wants... you seem to miss that point

[Fraser]

NO a sincere attempt by her would be asking Fraser face to face what he needs for her to do to maintain the relationship, telling him she is willing to do anything, and giving him whatever time he needs.

We've been there though, I just told her I needed thinking time!

 

She doesn't want any reminders of Fraser at her place where either she or anyone else she is with can see them. Most likely she is already seeing someone new (might or might not be the guy she admitted to kissing, he may just have been a decoy) and the new guy demanded she get rid of all the keepsakes of the ex.

It is more than likely she is currently involved with Fraser's best friend or someone else close to him. The guy she admitted to kissing was probably the decoy.

It's funny actually cause I read this and I just know she's not, like I know it, totally, not a doubt in my mind and that kinda makes me think that actually even with all of this I do still trust her, inspite of everything I can still trust her.

[MrRightNow]

People SAVE their old love letters, Valentine's cards, and stuff like that, maybe in an old box in the closet, but they SAVE them, IF they cherish that person and that relationship.

 

I don't think there could possibly BE any stronger evidence that this is over with than her return of the keepsakes. Esp. if she is an obsessive person.

 

 

 

Nah, she obviously didn't mail that stuff merely to get rid of it. It was a poignant gesture that was meant to evoke an emotional response from Fraser. He had already told her to leave him alone for the time being, so this was the most effective way of reaching out to him. What this girl did was stupid, immoral and disloyal, but there's no reason to believe she's as callous as you're making her out to be.