Abused 22 years, then he changed.

[trippi1432]

As much as I hate to bring religion into any discussions, I don't think anyone is saying to stay in a bad marriage because of God. God didn't make your husband this person he is, your husband did. If he is still being abusive, to his own children, how can anyone respect him nor how can he even be asked to be respected? Lets not mar the lines between religion and a loving, healthy marriage. I think that is for God to judge in the end.

 

My exH tried to play the church and God card on me once. He wanted us to travel 45 miles one way to go to his drinking buddy's church. The one around the corner wasn't good enough. Abusive people only have ONE thing on their minds....themselves and getting their needs met at anyone's expense. Sounds pretty evident to me, this is a man that is getting his future needs met by pulling the wool over his wife while continuing to be abusive to his own child. And yes, instigating feelings of being unloved to a child by mouthing I don't like you is abusive behavior.

 

What happened to Men honor your wives, wives obey your husband, children respect your parents, parents love your children. Marred between millions of Biblical interpretations for the sake of personal agendas religion by religion. No, I'm not going to cite or argue scripture, it's a lost cause. I believe in a higher power, I just don't believe in the Church anymore or what it stands for.

 

I agree you should get yourself right first, that is more important than either of these men as neither are going to make it right for you. That is something you have to do for yourself.

[Eve]

Im trapped. Thats it really.

 

No getting out.

 

I think you are stronger than you think, mainly because you had the strength to move away in the first instance.

 

In my opinion the only problem you currently have is that you are allowing your H to stay at your place. Personally I wouldn't let him stay but I am cold when it comes to these sorts of things - my children come first every time without second thought. He wouldn't have dared even ask me. Look, if the feelings are going to come back they will come back once he is gone.

 

Conversely, it may also turn out to be a HUGE relief to have him out .. and as such I think the most important thing is that you have space to find this out for yourself.

 

The statement about your H dying without you is beyond disturbing. I would have him out simply to see if that happens, lol. What would he die off?.. dehydration? .. hunger? What is that about? That has taken the prize of guilt trip off the year, so far.

 

I think your life will look completely different by September if you have him out now. You have given enough. Give yourself and your children space to simply be.

 

Gods got your back,

Take care,

Eve x

[2sunny]

OK....steadfast......so...breaking it down. Divorce is not justified.

 

I know my relationship with God does not depend on my marital condition.

 

So, I must stay with my husband. I must forgive him.

 

I must forget about this other man...who I moved away from, church and area. Trying to be faithful to God.

 

But I dont love my husband. My heart died to him November 2011. I felt the marriage dissolve...end. Truly. Then, WHAM...something amazing happened and I felt literally love struck by this other man. I did not seek it. I never flirt...dress in a way to attract attention.....it truly did just happen.

d

So as well as sacrificing 22 years.....and my daughters happiness. I must now sacrifice the rest of my life. My H has changed and I must thank God for that. Pray that somehow this marriage revives itself. And hope that God will help my D too.

 

I know the Bible too. I know what the bible says about Divorce. I know he didnt mention abuse. Or marriages dying but they do die. We are married till DEATH do us part. In my marriage the death happened 2 years ago and it was murdered by my H. Course he is sorry now. The other guy was the RESULT of my dead marriage. My soul was free suddenly...and found someone else to tie too. Do you see that?

 

God help me.

 

I'd suggest divorcing. To keep any child around an abusive parent is inviting in more harm.

 

I'd also suggest waiting until the D is final to consider dating - proper order is key.

[freestyle]

You've received excellent advice here so far, OP.

 

 

I would be extremely wary AND skeptical of any "overnight" personality changes. It smacks of manipulation....

 

Someone genuinely remorseful for putting you through hell---

wouldn't put pressure on you to welcome them back into your life.

They would be mindful of the damage they'd caused in the past, and would be sensitive to not causing any additional damage.

 

I can't tell you what to do of course---but I think you've paid your dues with that relationship, and you certainly don't owe your H anything at this point.

[Midwestmom12]

I'm so sick of the judgemental posts on this site. Thank goodness for the people here who are supportive but honestly people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

If everyone on here was holier than thou there wouldn't be a divorce forum. I know what the original poster is going through. Most of the posts attacking seem to come from men who have no clue how women are wired. No wonder they are divorced.

 

As a woman I know how conflicted we feel when we have been in an abusive relationship. To the original poster...take a step back from the other man. You deserve true love and happiness but you're not ready right now. You have been abused a long time and you're probably not rewriting history, more than likely you just grew tired of hoping your husband would change.

 

Affairs are wrong but maybe the love you feel for this man is giving you the strength you need to leave an abusive marriage. I posted here months back about my situation and I was attacked.

 

My husband like yours is very controlling and abusive. I stayed for years hoping things would change. I didn't fall for another man but I knew something was wrong when I found myself attracted to a male coworker. It wasn't his looks or career or money that drew me in. It was his kindness and consideration which was something I wasn't getting at home. I never cheated but I sure thought about it.

 

When I finally had enough he wanted to change and wanted counseling. I agreed to go because I wanted to save my marriage if possible. The therapist told me recently she suspected my husband has NPD and said I was codependent.

 

I do still love him but I can no longer deal with his controlling ways, irresponsibility and emotional abuse. Your husband won't change. He is saying and doing everything you want now to lure you back in. Leave and don't look back and don't ever feel guilty about developing feelings for a man who has been kind to you. When you have been abused a little kindness and gentleness is all it takes.

[TaraMaiden]

Im trapped. Thats it really.

 

No getting out.

 

This is BS.

There is ALWAYS a way out....

Always.

 

You're planning on taking it in two-three months' time.

 

So, take it.

[pteromom]

I would cross the other guy off as an option. At least for now.

 

Whether you stay or leave your marriage, you will have healing to do and will need time and space to recalibrate yourself to normal before you will be ready to move on to a new relationship.

 

If this other guy doesn't get that, he's got issues of his own. He should WANT to wait until you are ready.

 

The only way to know if your husband has truly changed or if he's being manipulative is to wade back in. Doesn't mean you have to open your heart to him. It just means to go on dates, keep talking, and see what happens. If he does anything abusive or controlling, you will be able to walk away knowing you did everything in your power.

 

BUT - if it is time to leave your marriage, you NEED to spend some time on your own. Do NOT move on to a new relationship.

[freestyle]

BUT - if it is time to leave your marriage, you NEED to spend some time on your own. Do NOT move on to a new relationship.

 

^^^^This.

 

Healing from an abusive relationship takes longer than ending a mutually respectful relationship that went south.

 

The sad, and unfair truth is---you're likely to be highly vulnerable to falling into a lopsided dynamic again. It will take time to repair the damage that abuse does to your self-esteem, and capacity for trust.

 

Be your own rescuer, first............

[Steadfast]

As much as I hate to bring religion into any discussions, I don't think anyone is saying to stay in a bad marriage because of God. God didn't make your husband this person he is, your husband did.

 

The devil didn't make him do it Tripp?

 

Sorry for the misplaced humor. You're right of course.

 

I'm so sick of the judgemental posts on this site. Thank goodness for the people here who are supportive but honestly people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

Good judgement is wasted on the weak. The poster doesn't need support, she needs good judgement and clarity. In my opinion. And encouragement.

 

Any man that strikes a woman (except to protect a child) isn't a man. He has stripped himself of his manhood. That's my take. My opinion. Someone mentioned good judgement points to protecting the innocent. I second that.

 

Leave him. But do it for the right reasons. You know what they are.

[trippi1432]

The devil didn't make him do it Tripp?

 

Sorry for the misplaced humor. You're right of course.

 

 

Not unless her husband is Satan himself I guess....again, why you don't bring religion into discussions of matters of the heart or of marriage unless you want people to throw the Bible around. At the end of the day, if you want a religious marriage, keep it between you, your husband and God...and God won't tell where you buried him...only he can judge. Yeah, that was sarcasm Steadfast...but it stopped my exH from hitting me after year 5.

 

 

Any man that strikes a woman (except to protect a child) isn't a man. He has stripped himself of his manhood. That's my take. My opinion. Someone mentioned good judgement points to protecting the innocent. I second that.

 

Agreed

 

Good judgement is wasted on the weak. The poster doesn't need support, she needs good judgement and clarity. In my opinion. And encouragement.

 

What is weak though? She does need support, not judgement. What people don't understand about co-dependent relationships and NPD is the fact that the co-dependent is like they are because they never had a support system to begin with. They saw the NPD'r as support, the wrong kind...and they go on to repeat it with the next wrong kind. Bashing them does not help....projecting wrong-doing and blaming them does not help them...they have heard that from the NPD'r in a selfish way, to keep them hooked. Sometimes it's the only thing they know.

 

To help them is to make them independent of themselves, to know happiness without anyone else to supply it. They come to know real relationships to be those of free will where they were not perplexed to give in, where they are free to be who they are and not judged.

[Act Two]

OK....steadfast......so...breaking it down. Divorce is not justified.

 

I know my relationship with God does not depend on my marital condition.

 

So, I must stay with my husband. I must forgive him.

 

I must forget about this other man...who I moved away from, church and area. Trying to be faithful to God.

 

But I dont love my husband. My heart died to him November 2011. I felt the marriage dissolve...end. Truly. Then, WHAM...something amazing happened and I felt literally love struck by this other man. I did not seek it. I never flirt...dress in a way to attract attention.....it truly did just happen.

d

So as well as sacrificing 22 years.....and my daughters happiness. I must now sacrifice the rest of my life. My H has changed and I must thank God for that. Pray that somehow this marriage revives itself. And hope that God will help my D too.

 

I know the Bible too. I know what the bible says about Divorce. I know he didnt mention abuse. Or marriages dying but they do die. We are married till DEATH do us part. In my marriage the death happened 2 years ago and it was murdered by my H. Course he is sorry now. The other guy was the RESULT of my dead marriage. My soul was free suddenly...and found someone else to tie too. Do you see that?

 

God help me.

 

This post makes me very sad, because I don't believe God wants you to stay in an abusive marriage. Abusing you is a breaking of vows just like adultery.

 

God is a God of grace and doesn't want you to just have to endure abuse.

 

He hates divorce, of course, because it is painful but it doesn't mean He doesn't allow for it and won't help you through it every step of the way.

 

I don't agree with the post that you are re-writing history. You were abused and of course over time your heart became hard towards him. Love can die when you abuse someone long enough and cannot trust or respect that person. How could you respect him?

 

God can change people, and even change your heart back, but I think you need to get good counseling to help you determine whether he has made genuine changes in his life, and whether or not the marriage is salvageable of if you even have it in you to work on it with him. You can't beat yourself up though if it's not and I would think he would have to work VERY hard to show that he has radically changed. Is he in therapy?

[Steadfast]

Abusing you is a breaking of vows just like adultery.

 

I agree, but marriage vows were written by men. It isn't a matter of faith, it's a matter of common sense.

 

He hates divorce, of course, because it is painful but it doesn't mean He doesn't allow for it and won't help you through it every step of the way.

 

If I'm reading scripture accurately, God hates the reasons for divorce. He may then, conversely, love the opportunity divorce gives the betrayed.

 

She does need support, not judgement

 

You have more experience than I do in this area Tripp, so I will confer to you regarding insight. That said, I don't believe it is in the OP's best interest to bring a third person into this, or any marriage. At best, it only complicates matters. That I can't 'support', using my understanding of the word. Does abuse allow anything besides the right to flee from it? Other than natural self-protection that is. Judgmental and good judgement can be seen differently, or the same. That choice is often blurred on this forum.

 

Honestly? I think the accusation has lost its punch.

[WhoreyBull]

Has God been married? Has God been in an abusive relationship? Whether or not God likes someone in relationships is based a lot on people doing everything he has to say...

 

A marriage will not revive itself, because a marriage is not an entity in and of itself. You and your husband are what makes it exist. If you husband is being abusive the only "marriage" between you is the one on paper. And if someone were telling me to stay miserable until my death and hope a man that has abused me decides to suddenly change I would tell that person they haven't walked in my shoes. If Gods plan for you is to have a life where you are waiting for someone to die just to have a chance at living, and your daughter gets to see her mother unhappy and broken down... then I think that's a pretty sad thing to wish upon a person.

 

Good judgment = Don't cheat; abusing the abuser is not justified

Judgmental = Divorce isn't an option.

[dreamingoftigers]

Im trapped. Thats it really.

 

No getting out.

 

I, too, have felt tied to my marriage due to faith.

 

However, even if you feel a divorce is not justified, there is a justification for separation. You would be making it permanent, however.

 

I have gone out with this route in mind before and found inner peace knowing that my husband would have to work himself out and that if HE got the divorce, instead of working himself out, that would be on HIM.

 

I had the option to file last year, I didn't take it. We stayed separated.

 

We are still, technically, separated as of two years now.

 

I file taxes separately and have full custody of my daughter on the books.

 

The lease and car are in my name only post-separation.

 

If I need to file, or find him in an adulterous situation (again) I have a much greater hand and ability to protect myself. Nor am I dependent on his income. He makes $900 a month off of his student grant. Pffft...

 

Depending on your state, there is nothing against seeking custody of your daughter (I believe she would be old enough to choose to live with you.)

 

Get your own place. If he doesn't like it, he can go get the divorce.

[jennaflorrie]

Some may say that my husband must love me an awful lot to have changed. He must love me an awful lot to be so sorry and admit that it his fault. He wishes he could change. He will make it up to me. He will even be my slave. (!)

 

But then to catch him mouthing "I dont like you" at my daughter, so I wouldnt see.....also I got the phone off my D one month previous to above event...and heard my H YELLING "Shut up...Shut up......LISTEN" at his D down the phone. He didht realise I had the phone and could hear his yellling.

 

He knows now that i am watching him. So I have a plan.....................

 

I am going to purchase some secret Cameraas......nanny cam things...and put them around. I will see what he is like when I am not around. Lets see if he has REALLY changed, or is it an act

[TaraMaiden]

Some may say that my husband must love me an awful lot to have changed. He must love me an awful lot to be so sorry and admit that it his fault. He wishes he could change. He will make it up to me. He will even be my slave. (!)

 

But then to catch him mouthing "I dont like you" at my daughter, so I wouldnt see.....also I got the phone off my D one month previous to above event...and heard my H YELLING "Shut up...Shut up......LISTEN" at his D down the phone. He didht realise I had the phone and could hear his yellling.

 

He knows now that i am watching him. So I have a plan.....................

 

I am going to purchase some secret Cameraas......nanny cam things...and put them around. I will see what he is like when I am not around. Lets see if he has REALLY changed, or is it an act

 

Don't bother. It's an additional, unnecessary and totally redundant expense which is merely to add to the confirmation of what your eyes, ears and heart have already witnessed. More than once.

 

Look, jenna, don't start getting all wussy, weak and wimpish on us.

 

This is the deal: God or no God, you do not love your H and the marriage ended long ago.

Your feelings completely died, over a year ago, and your daughter is suffering through this.

 

There is absolutely no legal moral or social compunction that states you have to put up with this for one second longer.

 

Quit. Enough is enough.

 

Just go with what you originally planned.

July is the cut-off date.

you file.

What he does then, is his own business.

He can go float a boat for all you care, his take on it is not your concern.

 

Your BIGGEST concern is you, your daughter and your son.

 

Forget FB Romeo - focus on you and your kids.

[Eve]

Some may say that my husband must love me an awful lot to have changed. He must love me an awful lot to be so sorry and admit that it his fault. He wishes he could change. He will make it up to me. He will even be my slave. (!)

 

But then to catch him mouthing "I dont like you" at my daughter, so I wouldnt see.....also I got the phone off my D one month previous to above event...and heard my H YELLING "Shut up...Shut up......LISTEN" at his D down the phone. He didht realise I had the phone and could hear his yellling.

 

He knows now that i am watching him. So I have a plan.....................

 

I am going to purchase some secret Cameraas......nanny cam things...and put them around. I will see what he is like when I am not around. Lets see if he has REALLY changed, or is it an act

 

You have caught him mouthing at your daughter. What more do you need?

 

Personal question here - are you sleeping with H still?

 

If you are sleeping with him and you do not love him, girl you are in trouble.

 

The way I see it is that you have been caught (within the final few steps towards freedom) into a position where you are being 'nice' by letting him stay at your place due to his commuting needs. If he is the one who suggested this, I would relate that this could be an extention of the past abuse; putting you in a position where you must be seen to be being a 'nice' and compliant wife - in order for him to not be abusive towards you. I bet if you stopped him staying he would go back fully to his abusive ways. Right now he is giving you and the kids the low fat version off the abuse you know all too well.

 

You need to break every negative connection before you will know how you really feel. That's how these things go... emotional abuse, which is hard to prove, combined with definate acts of abuse to weaken you into a position where you become obsessed with proving yourself.

 

Do something else. Break the cycle. You are 85% there already. Believe in yourself.

 

Gods got your back,

Take care,

Eve x

Edited April 5, 2013 by Eve

[TaraMaiden]

You have caught him mouthing at your daughter. What more do you need?

 

Personal question here - are you sleeping with H still?

 

If you are sleeping with him and you do not love him, girl you are in trouble.

 

The way I see it is that you have been caught (within the final few steps towards freedom) into a position where you are being 'nice' by letting him stay at your place due to his commuting needs. If he is the one who suggested this, I would relate that this could be an extention of the past abuse; putting you in a position where you must be seen to be being a 'nice' and compliant wife - in order for him to not be abusive towards you. I bet if you stopped him staying he would go back fully to his abusive ways. Right now he is giving you and the kids the low fat version off the abuse you know all too well.

 

You need to break every negative connection before you will know how you really feel. That's how these things go... emotional abuse, which is hard to prove, combined with definate acts of abuse to weaken you into a position where you become obsessed with proving yourself.

 

Eve x

 

No - apparently she hasn't slept with him for 2 years.

So what the point is in his commute, is beyond me, frankly....

[Eve]

No - apparently she hasn't slept with him for 2 years.

So what the point is in his commute, is beyond me, frankly....

 

Ok, thanks for clarifying. I was concerned that that was probably too personal a question but I don't understand why else he would be staying over?

 

In my mind, that has to stop. It is not necessary and basically is keeping the OP open to negative experiences.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[trippi1432]

You have more experience than I do in this area Tripp, so I will confer to you regarding insight. That said, I don't believe it is in the OP's best interest to bring a third person into this, or any marriage. At best, it only complicates matters. That I can't 'support', using my understanding of the word. Does abuse allow anything besides the right to flee from it? Other than natural self-protection that is. Judgmental and good judgement can be seen differently, or the same. That choice is often blurred on this forum.

 

Honestly? I think the accusation has lost its punch.

 

I don't condone bringing a 3rd party into a marriage either and abuse is no excuse to; however, it's more the delivery of the support. Where we here on LS like to beat the dickens out of cheaters, a person who has been emotionally, psychologically or physically abused has already taken a beating. They are already carrying their own guilt and judgement and that of their abuser, they have no support system.

 

I don't believe that anyone here is "supporting" Jenna going to this other man, currently, her heart is looking for a place to land and that needs to be what she gives back to herself and not looking for someone else to fix what is broken. When you are abused, you become severely broken....that is something she has to heal for her. Her husband's problems are his to own.

[Act Two]

Some may say that my husband must love me an awful lot to have changed. He must love me an awful lot to be so sorry and admit that it his fault. He wishes he could change. He will make it up to me. He will even be my slave. (!)

 

But then to catch him mouthing "I dont like you" at my daughter, so I wouldnt see.....also I got the phone off my D one month previous to above event...and heard my H YELLING "Shut up...Shut up......LISTEN" at his D down the phone. He didht realise I had the phone and could hear his yellling.

 

He knows now that i am watching him. So I have a plan.....................

 

I am going to purchase some secret Cameraas......nanny cam things...and put them around. I will see what he is like when I am not around. Lets see if he has REALLY changed, or is it an act

 

I can identify with this. My husband used to lie to me so much but I always felt like I didn't have enough of a reason to leave him, and he wasn't physically abusive as your husband has been. Where it used to break my heart when he would do it, over time I would hope he would do it and that I could catch him in it, and then it would finally feel like enough or I would have enough "proof" to feel justified to end it. If you feel like you need a nanny cam you are just looking for a smoking gun to prove what you already know in your heart.

 

I think that's what you are doing and it's faulty thinking. If you are already at that point, you no longer trust or respect that person and tremendous damage has been done. I think all of the abuse you have endured needs no justification if you are done. The fact that you wrote that he still "wishes he could change" indicates to me that it might be all lip-service.

 

Through counseling, I've come to see that even though my husband and I might have changed our ways (and I came to abuse him too through infidelity), it's possible to create enough damage that you can't pull out of, and that you just have to accept that. I'm still trying to accept that too.

[Steadfast]

Don't bother. It's an additional, unnecessary and totally redundant expense which is merely to add to the confirmation of what your eyes, ears and heart have already witnessed. More than once.

 

Good advice. I take that position regarding just about any surveillance. PAs, key loggers, VA-recorders, etc. If things have reached that point...

 

Not to complicate matters, but why wait? Today is a GOOD DAY to start the rest of your life. Then you can start working on the healing that Tara, Trippi and others have suggested. It's impossible in the current situation, IMO.

 

You are getting good advice jenna. That's what you came here for, isn't it?

[dreamingoftigers]

Im trapped. Thats it really.

 

No getting out.

 

Come now!

 

This is the exact type of thinking that kept you in this unhappy circumstance for 22 years!

 

And you already proved it wasn't true!

 

You got OUT. You went your own way. The fact that he might have manipulated the circumstance is not a factor in the fact that you did get out once.

 

You can get out again. Nothing is stopping you besides this particular mental block. I can only imagine what your family or origin taught you about fairness, dignity and how to kick the ass of an abuser user! (Metaphorically of course). And if we have a faith concern about my choice in language, please refer to "ass" as your husband's donkey.

 

Now earlier I posted an option (separation) so that you didn't have to feel the shame of the divorce or a violation of your faith. In fact, Jehovah's witnesses use separation as an option during these types of cases. (And if your church tells you to just blindly stay, remember that they must be crazy enough to make Jehovah's Witnesses look progressive).

 

Honestly, if you were to talk to 98.3% of thinking, rational pastors or spiritual leaders, they would not tell you to blindly stay in this untenable situation. I do not sincerely believe that God would want your daughter to suffer this ongoing emotional injury.

 

Furthermore, dear woman, Christ was not a man to say "things just can't be done, what's the point?" He was a man of choice and action. He stood for something.

 

He also said, He replied, "Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." (Matthew 17:20) If you need out and to protect your daughter, and if you have faith that Christ loves you etc. He WILL find a way to provide that for you.

 

"And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus." (Phil 4:19)

 

Furthermore, according to your situation:

 

Colossians 3:21 "Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged."

 

And honestly, does your husband sound like this:

 

Ephesians 6:4 "Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord."

 

Is he bringing up your daughter as a loving disciplinarian? Or is he just breaking her spirit with his anger and crapola?

 

And finally:

 

Matthew 18:10

"See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven."

 

So quit thunking yourself on the head with your faith! Protect that kid and put his stupid ass out to pasture!

[dreamingoftigers]

Good advice. I take that position regarding just about any surveillance. PAs, key loggers, VA-recorders, etc. If things have reached that point...

 

Not to complicate matters, but why wait? Today is a GOOD DAY to start the rest of your life. Then you can start working on the healing that Tara, Trippi and others have suggested. It's impossible in the current situation, IMO.

 

You are getting good advice jenna. That's what you came here for, isn't it?

 

I believe that using these devices would be a good idea to provide evidence for the treatment of your daughter, at the very least to 120% convince yourself of it.

 

You may need some type of proof to back allegations if the matter does go to court. I do realize that many states do not admit such evidence BUT having seen it with your own eyes, you could very well and solidly testify to it. Your daughter would most likely back it up.

[BetheButterfly]

God didn't make your husband this person he is, your husband did.

 

100% agreed!