How do you condemn one and sleep with the other?

[Mr. Lucky]

Mr. Lucky, do you maybe feel a bit superior to thos BS who choose not to forgive the OM/Ow in their situation? Do you feel everyone should work towards forgiveness, in every situation? Maybe it's a religious issue. I don't know if you are religious, but I do know some religions preach a lot about forgiveness. I'm not a religious person in the traditional sense. I actually feel it's more important to focus on righting a wrong, making up for a "sin" then forgiving a sin. From what I've seen on here, the marriages that survive an affair well, are the ones in which the WS did go through he!! with the BS after d-day and in a sense, made up for what they did (made up as best they could, anyways). Maybe if the OW/OM came to the BS and did the work to make the BS forgive them, the BS in these situations you talk of would forgive the OM/OW. Again, though, why would the OW/OM bother? Unless their was a strong, loving relationship between the BS and the OW/OM before the affair, why would the OW/OM waiste their energy trying to earn the BS forgiveness? The OW/OM doesn't have to earn the forgiveness to move on with their life and be happy and by the same token, the BS doesn't have to give their forgiveness in order to move on and be happy.

Well said. If I inadvertently conveyed any sense of superiority, please put it down to the difficulty of translating thoughts to words to text. It's more curiosity on my part in trying to understand why many BS's concerns were different than mine in understanding the timeframe post D-Day. Hope that makes sense...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Betrayed&Stayed]

Why do so many OW think that the BS only blames them? I agree that there are some that put more emphasis on the OW, but has it not been said on this forum over and over that the one who gets most of the blame is the WS? My xWS got MOST of the blame and yes, the OW did get some of the blame as well, but she did help him hurt me, so the way I see it, she is not innocent. BUT, like I said, the xWS get's most of the blame (if not all, by many).

 

Same here.

 

After D-day it was a difficult task to forgive my wife. It was a daily decision to forgive her or not. I wish it was a one-time decision, but it's not like that. Not for me anyways. Some days it was easier to forgive than others. I'll admit that some days I couldn't find it in myself to forgive her; so I would try again the next day.

 

 

How can I forgive her and not the OM?

For the days that I did forgive my WW there was no forgiveness left over for me to give to the OM.

 

I was able to forgive my wife because we are in an ongoing relationship that has a history, present, and future. I only met the OM on a few occasions. I do not have a relationship with him, so it is easier for me to have negative feelings towards him. Some of that could be transference; if so, so be it. Either way, I do not like him. I'm sure that he doesn't think that I'm going to buy him a beer if we bump into each other.

 

I was able to forgive my wife because we put in the work to resolve the hurt and anger. She showed me in word and deed that she was sorry and remorseful. The OM has not said or done anything to show me that he is sorry. As far as I know he could either be shameful or proud of his sexual conquest. Nothing has been resloved between me and him.

 

Now that I am in a position of strength, I'm working on forgiving the OM. I still think that he is a POS, but I'm trying to change that.

 

I hold the OM culpable for his actions, and in no way give him a pass. He knew that my wife was married. Of course I hold my wife to a much higher standard because she is the one that vowed to be faithful. For breaking her vows I hold her 100% accountable for her tanking our marriage.

 

I don't use terms such as "victim" or "predator". They both chose to have an affair. Both of them got something out of their affair. I wouldn't say that I "vilify" the OM, I just hope that some day karma pays him a visit.

[Spark1111]

Yep. My first (and only) marriage ended because my exH had an affair, fell in love with someone else.

 

I chose to leave the marriage (after some really sad attempts at reconciliation on both our parts) and move on. For me, staying and punishing him was silly - and wasn't going to make me any happier - if anything, it was just going to pick at the wound. The affair made our relationship unsustainable - the balance was thrown way off and it would have never worked for us.

 

I learned a LOT from my exHs affair - about life, love, and about myself.

 

 

That's a shame and I am sorry it did not work out for you.

 

If I felt I had to punish him I would not have stayed either. Angry, resentful, exasperated how he could not verbalize a feeling....yes.

 

Punishing? No. Who would want that?

 

The point is to return to joyous, otherwise, what is the point?

 

And that takes 2 to 5 years with everyone doing everything possible.

 

My marriage is wonderful today and I am glad I stayed. It takes love, courage and hard work on the part of two people to get here.

[underwater2010]

Isn't it obvious that one had a much greater vested interest and motivation post D-Day? To expect the same from both AP's (towards you) doesn't come close to making sense...

 

Mr. Lucky

I did not expect her to apologize....I really didn't care if she did or did not. But how can she or anyone expect me not to be angry and condemn her if she has no remorse for her own actions. By the way, the I am sure that she is spending more time apologizing to her BH since I took the time to inform him.

 

You asked how we could condemn one and sleep with the answer. I gave you the response....it is something as simple as apologizing and making amends for their behavior.

[underwater2010]

That's illegal.

 

 

 

Sleeping with someone who's married is not illegal in most places.

 

If you are talking morality here, people are not perfect and not under the control of one single morality police. I would love if all people promised me they wouldn't cut me off in traffic. It still happens, and I doubt all of them are rushing to stringent emergencies.

Again with the "it is not illegal".

 

Legal/Illegal or Moral/Immoral....it is still crappy human behavior and leads to hurting alot of people in the process. Hence the right to be angry at the person(s) that hurt you.

[veryhappy]

Many of your posts on this thread are, to me, very dismissive of the feelings of the people posting their personal take on things that happened - TO THEM.

 

Keywords...to you. As soon as there a BS who doesn't quite fit the mould, he needs to be pushed into it. Everybody has to squeeze tightly where they are supposed to be, thinking what they are supposed to think.

[veryhappy]

Again with the "it is not illegal".

 

Legal/Illegal or Moral/Immoral....it is still crappy human behavior and leads to hurting alot of people in the process. Hence the right to be angry at the person(s) that hurt you.

 

You are free to be angry all you want. I'm very angry at exMM even though probably my anger wouldn't even be approved by most BS because hey I was looking for it.

 

The issue was of responsibilty. The only ways I can see that can be established are morally or legally. People hear don't like the legal side, because it's not illegal. I also addressed the moral side, but moral ears are too sensitive. I am telling you that some of us simply can live with it, as much as you see that bahavior as crappy. I have problems with lots of behaviors the people I interact with exhibit and guess what?! Nothing I can do about stopping other people from doing what they want to do.

 

For things where there's no legal action, there's not much you can do. And yet, some BS get the AP fired, try to get it out of town and whatever they can do. They don't however get their own spouse fired, try to get it out of town. ...on the same level. It's not even 50-50. To me all the talk about the responsabiliy being at least 50% on the WS is just sweet talk to ease the moral minds who want to feel correct and right.

[AnotherRound]

That's a shame and I am sorry it did not work out for you.

 

If I felt I had to punish him I would not have stayed either. Angry, resentful, exasperated how he could not verbalize a feeling....yes.

 

Punishing? No. Who would want that?

 

The point is to return to joyous, otherwise, what is the point?

 

And that takes 2 to 5 years with everyone doing everything possible.

 

My marriage is wonderful today and I am glad I stayed. It takes love, courage and hard work on the part of two people to get here.

 

Honestly, that divorce was the best thing that ever happened to me. I didn't think so at the time, I was afraid to move on, alone - with a failed marriage under my belt. But wow, was it holding me back from the life I wanted and deserved! I seriously took flight after that divorce - advanced my education by several degrees, purchased my own home, moved away from everything I knew and started a life for ME. None of which would have happened had I held on to the dead marriage I was involved in.

 

He would have never participated truly in a marriage - not on a level that I need to feel connected. He likes very shallow relationships - I like deep and meaningful relationships. He will find his happiness I hope - but I have already found mine, so for me, it's a positive experience. Not to mention I got to lose contact with the worst mother in law on the planet, lol!

 

All joking aside, it really was the best thing for me, and I'm grateful it happened the way it did because I am EXACTLY where I'm supposed to be. I can feel that truth to the core of my being. I'm glad that your path was successful for you also. All is well that ends well - and everything ends well if you look at it the right way.

[underwater2010]

You are free to be angry all you want. I'm very angry at exMM even though probably my anger wouldn't even be approved by most BS because hey I was looking for it.

 

No one has ever said the APs cannot be angry with each other. I know I would be pissed if I was outted and/or left behind and treated like crap. I would also be angry at myself for going down the road that lead there. I find myself angry when I make big or small mistakes.

 

The issue was of responsibilty. The only ways I can see that can be established are morally or legally. People hear don't like the legal side, because it's not illegal. I also addressed the moral side, but moral ears are too sensitive. I am telling you that some of us simply can live with it, as much as you see that bahavior as crappy. I have problems with lots of behaviors the people I interact with exhibit and guess what?! Nothing I can do about stopping other people from doing what they want to do.

 

And no one here is trying to convert you from you feel is acceptable. No one is trying to stop you or others from that behavior either. We simply let you know how the actions effect other people. I personally find that most of the crappy behavior is just simply selfish behavior. As long as you get want you want, how cares how anyone else feels. Again legal/illegal moral/immoral does not matter, it is just simply selfish behavior.

 

For things where there's no legal action, there's not much you can do. And yet, some BS get the AP fired, try to get it out of town and whatever they can do. They don't however get their own spouse fired, try to get it out of town. ...on the same level. It's not even 50-50. To me all the talk about the responsabiliy being at least 50% on the WS is just sweet talk to ease the moral minds who want to feel correct and right.

 

Most BSs that go as far as to get the OW/OM fired also do the same to their WS. And I assure you that for all the crap the OW/OM has to put up with from their AP's BS, is nothing compared to what the WS has to deal with. I have a comletely moral mind and my FWH has gone through hell and almost back to set right the wrong he has done against me. Otherwise his butt would have been out on the street.

[nofool4u]

You are free to be angry all you want. I'm very angry at exMM even though probably my anger wouldn't even be approved by most BS because hey I was looking for it.

 

DING DING DING...What do we have for her Johnny??

 

 

To me all the talk about the responsabiliy being at least 50% on the WS is just sweet talk to ease the moral minds who want to feel correct and right.

 

Well why don't you tell us who owns what percentage

[Mr. Lucky]

Or you could have chosen to not reply regarding the way they feel - AT ALL. Especially in terms like "no sense" whether you put "to me" on the end or not.

 

Many of your posts on this thread are, to me, very dismissive of the feelings of the people posting their personal take on things that happened - TO THEM.

 

You take offense at my statement that your position doesn't make sense to me? And I should not reply "AT ALL" in my own thread?

 

I apologized because you were right. Your feelings are personally valid because...well, they're your feelings. You might want to extend to others - me included - the same consideration...

 

Mr. Lucky

[veryhappy]

Regardless, why on earth do you think it's ok to be angry at any BS? Did they do something to you? Did they harm you? Did they strike first?

 

Where did you get that? You misread what I wrote. I said I am angry at my former AP, you know, the husband of the BW in the case.

Edited March 12, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[veryhappy]

Well why don't you tell us who owns what percentage

 

I am not the one putting numbers on it. What I know is that from the outside there seems to be a lot of hypocrisy when a BS puts more responsability or half on the WS in words, but looking at the actions, the penalty is worse on the other part. It doesn't make sense. As far as what goes on into the home with the WS paying, if the mental torture was that bad they'd leave. I choose to look at undeniable things like job loss and moving away as more measurable than the pain of a reconciling spouse who goes through hell inbetween sessions of sex and pretending all is good.

 

I also know that in my own story, the xMOM is zero when it comes to me cheating on my H. I find myself fully to blame for cheating. In that context, he's simply the guy I cheated with and not relevant. It must be more of a woman's tendecy to vilify the other woman.

[underwater2010]

I am not the one putting numbers on it. What I know is that from the outside there seems to be a lot of hypocrisy when a BS puts more responsability or half on the WS in words, but looking at the actions, the penalty is worse on the other part. It doesn't make sense. As far as what goes on into the home with the WS paying, if the mental torture was that bad they'd leave. I choose to look at undeniable things like job loss and moving away as more measurable than the pain of a reconciling spouse who goes through hell inbetween sessions of sex and pretending all is good.

 

I also know that in my own story, the xMOM is zero when it comes to me cheating on my H. I find myself fully to blame for cheating. In that context, he's simply the guy I cheated with and not relevant. It must be more of a woman's tendecy to vilify the other woman.

Really....because I have known and heard of plenty of men that have spent time in jail for beating the crap out of WW's AP.

 

The worst I did to my FWH's MOW was expose her to her husband. Even when they shared joint friends and she worked in a field where I could have destroyed her.

 

As far as my FWH....the punishment he has dealt himself was far worse than I could have ever done. But then again, he feels REMORSEFUL for what he did.

[Spark1111]

this is what gets me too...

 

and the whole argument about "it's not illegal"...piffle!

 

there's lots of things I could do that are perfectly legal, yet i wouldn't do them because they are morally wrong...

 

I find that sooo ironic...

 

people shouldn't have a problem with the other man/woman because what they did wasn't "illegal" and it fits within their own moral framework...yet these same people get all bent out of shape when someone feels the other man/woman is 50% responsible for the affair...( apparently acting in away that going to have and end result of someone getting hurt is fine, but thinking in a way that the particular person doesn't like is worthy of reprimand and derision)

 

hmmm...I know he and I were equally responsible for our marriage. 50-50.

 

I gave the full 50 and the he checked out and gave less than 10.

 

He was 100 percent responsible for having an affair. that's on him.

 

The OW was responsible for her relationship with him. 50-50.

 

So, being an English major, I hold him 100 percent responsible for the affair, and she is responsible for an ADDITIONAL 50 percent of my pain.

[nofool4u]

I am not the one putting numbers on it.

 

Uh, ya, you are. If you say "To me all the talk about the responsabiliy being at least 50% on the WS is just sweet talk to ease the moral minds who want to feel correct and right.", then you obviously have an opinion of what the breakdown more accurately represents, in your mind, right?

 

 

What I know is that from the outside there seems to be a lot of hypocrisy when a BS puts more responsability or half on the WS in words, but looking at the actions, the penalty is worse on the other part.

 

Why shouldn't the BS put 100% of the responsibility on their choice to have an affair? Sorry, the BS owns none of the responsibility for that.

 

And if we are talking about the state of the marriage, why wouldn't that be 50/50? Again, if that seems ridiculous to you, then what would YOUR breakdown be and why?

 

 

I also know that in my own story, the xMOM is zero when it comes to me cheating on my H.

 

Ah. NOW I understand

 

 

I find myself fully to blame for cheating. In that context, he's simply the guy I cheated with and not relevant. It must be more of a woman's tendecy to vilify the other woman.

 

Ok, so you are talking about the OW/OM, your words make it sound as if dealing with the WS. Do I have that right?

 

If so, I agree. Although part of the anger towards OM/OW is justified, the brundt of it should be felt by the WS.

[seren]

I hated the A, but not my H or the OW. On D Day I was blindsided, never saw it coming, I never stopped loving my H, I didn't know the OW so my feelings about her were initially anger, as they were toward my H, then indifference toward her and while the simmering anger about the A continued, we still loved and so by his actions, I forgave H. As I had no feeling toward the OW, I had no real thoughts about her.

 

When she targetted me for some very cruel and calculated actions made to hurt me, then I felt angry and frankly while I understood her hurt, it had no place being directed towards me. There are many BS who have experienced backlash from the AP and are left feeling WTF. 5 and a half years later and a distance of over 600 miles and an ex directory phone number she still does the odd phone in, so much so I have had to contact the police to put an end to it. I don't hate her, I pity her.

 

I have never condemnded her for the A, and I have pulled H up about some of the things he has said about her, not that he doesn't accept that it was he who had the A, but for her part in hurting me. Not rational I know, but I understand (a little) his mindset. I hate A's, I hate the hurt, pain and destrucion they leave in their wake for at least one of those involved, but the people who have them? Indifference is the most I can conjour up, I have to love someone to hate them. I cannot assign attributes to her during the A that I don't to my H, that would be hypocrisy, but I do hate what she has done since, not so H, who has shown his remorse which enabled us to rebuild our relationship.