Stubborn husband might leave me

[Jennyfromtheblick]

I strongly disagree with you. There is a big difference between emotional immaturity and emotional abuse. I sincerely believe the latter is the issue in your curcumstances.

 

Of course you are free to believe what you want to believe. Sometimes posts are helpful sometimes they are not. I am very, very sorry if my point of view was disturbing to you or hurt your feelings in any way. I only was trying my best to help you. Yas

 

Gee yas your not very happy with me but thats ok no biggie! From this post i just thought you were saying you disagreed as in i had stated there being a difference! I was not understanding so i was just asking.

[Yasuandio]

When did i say there was a difference between the two?

 

I think i only wrote john was emotionally immature

 

My dear, you were not asking, you were questioning and challenging my statement, however subtle. You got your answer, and it is time to shut it, and be respectful. You are fortunate to have the support on LS that you have.

 

If you just want someone to hold your hand, and seem to agree with you, just say so. I think Tojaz might be very good at a day by day approach in that vein, he is extremely diplomatic. I do hope you re-visit you attitude today, as I think you have a lot to lose. I believe dead honestly is very useful in situations like this, and if I were you, I would welcome it, whether it stung or not. Personally, I'm going to hold back on my true opinions until I observe some healthy self-reflection.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Yasuandio

[Jennyfromtheblick]

I certainly as are you and every member here free to question any statement given. That is what makes places as this so great. I do however not have to take your advice. And respect goes both ways. Telling someone to shut it isnt exactly kind.

 

Though I do appreciate the advice you have given thus far respect is a two way street and I give it when its given back. I'm sorry if you feel I'm not respectful I have tried to show you in words everyday you and Mack and Tojaz and the others how grateful I am. There really is not great way on here besides saying thank you to show that. But I am extremely lucky to have support on here.

 

I think unless someone else posts with help or assistance I wont bother any of you any longer as it seems I just upset everyone. I too have enough problems in my life like everyone else on here I certainly don't want more by coming on here posting my sob story.

 

Yas if nothing else know this last week I really wanted to end my life and your kind words and love made me wake up and snap out of it. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for that. You really saved me that night! Sonetimes just a little love can save someone and you did that Monday. So blessed you cared about me that day.

 

Jen

[Yasuandio]

I care about you everyday, especially today. Good luck. Yas

[Mack05]

 

Yas if nothing else know this last week I really wanted to end my life and your kind words and love made me wake up and snap out of it. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for that. You really saved me that night! Sonetimes just a little love can save someone and you did that Monday. So blessed you cared about me that day.

 

Jen

 

Gez Jen, I was particularly sad reading this. Please please don't ever go down that route. My ex posts on LS and she always says "Suicide is permanent solution to a temporary problem". No person is ever worth ending a life for. No matter how sad and desperate you feel. Life is precious, you are precious..Please please don't ever go down this route..

[Yasuandio]

Gez Jen, I was particularly sad reading this. Please please don't ever go down that route. My ex posts on LS and she always says "Suicide is permanent solution to a temporary problem". No person is ever worth ending a life for. No matter how sad and desperate you feel. Life is precious, you are precious..Please please don't ever go down this route..

 

Yes, this is all the more reason you need to see a doctor. Please make an appointment. Yas

 

PS Also, I apologize for my rudeness.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Yasuandio

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Gez Jen, I was particularly sad reading this. Please please don't ever go down that route. My ex posts on LS and she always says "Suicide is permanent solution to a temporary problem". No person is ever worth ending a life for. No matter how sad and desperate you feel. Life is precious, you are precious..Please please don't ever go down this route..

 

No worries I'm ok now! That first night was my lowest point!im actually Embarrased about it. But thought Yas should know how much her words meant. Though we dont agree we both good people and i wanted to point out how much she helped me and how I appreciated it.

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Yes, this is all the more reason you need to see a doctor. Please make an appointment. Yas

 

PS Also, I apologize for my rudeness.

 

My apologies too for coming across disrespectful

[tojaz]

Wow folks, we have really sailed into some dark waters today haven't we.

 

I'm going to come right out and say that as much as respect everyone who has joined onto this thread, if your looking for some examples of emotional abuse, you need look no further then some of the posts that have passed through here today.

 

Emotional abuse has to be in the top 5 of misused definitions on this board and eventually it shows up on every thread, and each time I cringe a little because it always leads to a very dark place, and this time is no exception.

 

One of the dangerous things of posting on this board is letting our own past experiences and even those of other threads color our view of things. Its very common, and hard to regulate because this is one of the most emotional topics that anyone is ever going to discuss and the vast majority of us that choose to post on others thread have our own scars as well.

 

Let's all keep in mind that only one of us has been in a room with John and has experienced life with him first hand, and that's Jenny, the rest of us are only working off of what she has shared with us and thats not enough to diagnose anything.

 

To the most critical of eyes and by the vague definitions that are put out for abuse, theres not a man woman and child that isn't guilty as hell. Considering Johns actions out of context isn't fair because I think we all would agree that these are not normal circumstances. In the context of what has become an emotionally charged house, his actions are to be expected and to label him based on them alone does a great injustice not only to him and to Jenny, but to those that are truly in abusive relationships.

 

In reading Jenny's replies today, the one thing that seems to be missed is that she is not naive to the terms being used and has given some very good well thought replies. This is obviously something she has made herself fairly familiar with and since shes the one that is actually living through this, I'm going to trust her judgment until something iron clad surfaces to tell me otherwise.

 

As some of you may or may not know, abuse is an extreme hot button for me, having lost a dear friend to spousal abuse it is something I have made a point to become well versed in. The continued debate here is doing nothing to help jenny, and in many cases quite the opposite and it is exchanges like these that tend to chase people from their threads when they need them the most.

 

What can we do to help you Jenny, thats supposed to be why were here.

 

TOJAZ

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Thanks Tojaz! Im sorry you lost a dear friend! My aunt has been in a abusive relationship for years and my family has watched her take awful abuse but she stays and she is ALWAYS the one who bails him out when he is arrested. We oftened wondered not IF. But WHEN it will be the final time and we will be at her service.

 

Anyhow I am going forward from all this anyone that wants to come on can.

 

Tonight with John he came home as I sat jamming to music he kept making noises as if to hint he had a bad day. Like the annoyed deep breathe kind. I think he was hoping I'd ask about his day but I didn't. So finally he just started telling me. I just listened and smiled. Very light conversation. I didnt offer him much but my ears.

 

He told me all about work, how he is having stomach/bathroom issues. Infact he is in bathroom right now loudly throwing up. Not sureif this is for attention or not but I'm not running to rescue him hes a big boy!! Woohoo day 2 of behaving !!!

[AllieKat]

I really was hell bent on staying away from posting on LS but this thread I have been watching. I can soooooooooo relate Jenny. First you don't deserve the crap you got dealt today shame on people for dishing it out in such a way that I too think is abusive. I think its disgusting. Especially when your being told be strong take back the power. All the wild as they push you into the mud. It is like a parent telling a child hitting is wrong as they spank the child. You be strong hun and try your best. Don't let others drive you way. I did and posting on here with people and their opinions did more to hurt me then help. Even my therapist told me to sign off.

I hope you and John can work things out. It will be a fight, as I know well. But if you try you will never regret it even if it doesn't work out. You will find some wonderful people who will help you here. They will build you up not knock you down which is what you'll need most right now. If it makes you feel better my hubby and I have been struggling for 9mths. I havent given up yet so dont you. I too think you need counseling. Anytime suicide is thought of I think that is a signal you need some extra help. Its helped me. Feel free to Pm anytime. Best of luck to you hun!!!

[AllieKat]

Jenny:

Truth isn't abusive. If I was anywhere out of line, I am sure the Moderators will contact me, and as I have been a Moderator in many social forums over the years, I can assure you that my post was direct, but never abusive. I was trying to do you a solid, and not blow rainbows out of a unicorn's ass as you seem to want. My humble opinion is that you are in denial or you aren't being truthful about the events that preceded this silent treatment and request for divorce.

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were telling the entire truth, yet as Mack has said -something just doesn't add up...something is off. The severity of his reaction does not correlate with the "mistake" you made by e-mailing a friend's ex and flirting on-line. only you can know that for sure, and so I won't belabor the point. I have never heard of silent treatment lasting this long...ever. The funny thing is that though you have hundreds of replies, no one said, "Hey, my H or W gave me the five, four, or three month silent treatment," and yet, you still pursued your H with a deperation I haven't heard of since Sherman's burning of Atlanta. In other words, your desperation makes me believe you cheated physically or emotionally and he knows it, or you are being emotionally abused and are in denial. Therein this is where I drew my conclusions.

I do not need to call people names. I am a mature and articulate human being who is quite capable of making my point without turning to immature antics. It is obvious that you only want opinions and posts that fuel your frenzied approach to further your drama, and are completely against anyone saying anything that does not correspopnd with your agenda which is to "save" a marriage that is not in your hands to save. I was trying to do you a kindness so you could regain your dignity and self-respect by saving your own integrity, but you are too immature to realise my intent so I will just have to hope that you at least will listen to the other posters here who have been so very kind to you.

I am obviously not welcome here, and will not say anything further on the subject. I just wanted to make sure that you knew that your words of anger and attack on my character and my intent is indicative of why you find yourself in the situation you are in. (And that is the first unkind thing I have said, though it is absolute truth.)

AW

 

Your ignorant! Your post is abusive! Get a life and learn compassion and when you get a degree you can come back and

Diagnosis

[tojaz]

 

Tonight with John he came home as I sat jamming to music he kept making noises as if to hint he had a bad day. Like the annoyed deep breathe kind. I think he was hoping I'd ask about his day but I didn't. So finally he just started telling me. I just listened and smiled. Very light conversation. I didnt offer him much but my ears.

 

He told me all about work, how he is having stomach/bathroom issues. Infact he is in bathroom right now loudly throwing up. Not sureif this is for attention or not but I'm not running to rescue him hes a big boy!! Woohoo day 2 of behaving !!!

 

Your very welcome Jenny. Hopefully we can get back on track with no hurt feelings.

 

I'm glad your being strong Jenny, but in doing that, don't shy away from interacting with him. "Behaving" as you put it is more about the pressure and outbursts and it's going to say more if you can still communicate and keep that under wraps rather then to just disengage all together. Something to keep in mind if it feels right. I know it's hard, but its the fine line between chasing him and shutting him out.

 

TOJAZ

[Mack05]

I have no idea how any of my posts can be considered abusive. I have spent a lot of time trying to help Jenny and to be accused of 'abuse' is nothing short of offensive. I could say more on this, but I won't. I don't want to have a back and forth argument with other posters, as I agree it this doesn't help Jenny.

 

For various reasons, I feel its best I no longer post on this thread anymore. Jenny I wish you well for your future and sincerely hope it all works out for you. Take care

Edited March 6, 2013 by Mack05

[AllieKat]

I have no idea how any of my posts can be considered abusive. I have spent a lot of time trying to help Jenny and to be accused of 'abuse' is nothing short of offensive. I could say more on this, but I won't. I don't want to have a back and forth argument with other posters, as I agree it this doesn't help Jenny.

 

For various reasons, I feel its best I no longer post on this thread anymore. Jenny I wish you well for your future and sincerely hope it all works out for you. Take care

 

I didn't say your posts were and wasn't going to point it out but here goes! Warriors post was abusive imo. And Yas which Is typical of here because she did the same crap to me! She was great for a awhile and then treated me like complete crap because she has the opinion she is the expert and she was abusive to me too! She may have helped jenny that night which is so commenable but yas has no room to EVER discuss abuse because she verbal abused me daily on this site. Goes back to the whole telling a kid hitting is wrong by hitting them thing. I really didnt want to have to go there abd point it out but i dont care and im trying to help jenny. Which if thats what everyone was worried with they wouldnt be getting upset and jumping thread. Mack your leaving her thread? Just because the word abusive was put out there and yet i dont recall anyone personally naming you but yet your done helping jenny? Think about that..... You were helping this gal and how she might of felt yesterday when you and yas let loss? Yas as always hot to go but you stood by and supported it all you didnt stick up for jenny or try to move the post ahead. If you care so much why would you let her take that beating? That was cruel of Yas but she loves drama and seeing people get put in their place trust me i know.

 

Back to what matters Jenny if anyone is here to help jenny truly then you help her! Dont get caught up in drama i still cant believe this girl admitted to wanted to take pills the other night and end her life and yet people found it somehow appropriate to start this crap yesterday! Not very responsible at all!!! If your on ls for the right reasons and you decide to post and you have a situation where someone has said they want to take pills and end it thats REAL serious and that puts into light that someone is in a delicate situation thats not the time a week later to pick them apart and beat them up. If dealing with that situation isnt something you can handle then dont post to that person if you cant be supportive. She is fragile, no offense jenny, this could of ended badly all because someone thought this girl needed to be educated in abuse and told shes this and that.

 

Mack- i think you have helped jenny. Just wish you hadnt sided with yas and warrior yesterday that was pointless talk. I think it hurt the girl more anything. Trust on here is important when your spilling you heart. Im so sick of negative ppl coming on in a thread and warrior is new too. His purpose was shady indeed and for all his wisdom anyone that knows anything doesnt go diagnosis or assign abuse to someone.

 

Yas- i dont care who likes this your a bully!! Surprised your still allowed on LS

[Mack05]

I am made of far tougher skin then that Alliekat. I wouldn't leave a thread cause a poster insulted me. I've been insulted on these forums a lot believe me!

 

I didn't appreciate you indirectly accuse me of abuse. You didn't name, so therefore how am I to know that you are not referring to me? Anyway it's not relevant to what I about to say, so best leave it. For what its worth, I like you Alliekat. I think the forums are poorer without you.

 

I am leaving because I believe going on the description Jenny has given me, that I firmly believe her husband has been engaging in both passive aggressive behaviour (there are different forms of this kind of behaviour) and emotional abuse. My mind is not for changing on this issue.

 

I don't believe that there is malicious intent there on her husbands part, that is why she should fight for her marriage. IMO he is a good guy but flawed (like us all)..

 

While I fully acknowledge that Absewarriors message could have been phrased better, I do agree with many of the points he raised. Jenny has stated above if that is my opinion, she is not sure how much help her. I have to say I totally agree with her. Jenny needs a different kind of support than the support that I can currently give her. I didn't attack Jenny yesterday. Read my posts carefully. There is no attack in there. I made some points which I had hoped would help. They clearly did not. If I am not helping Jenny then it's leave her with posters who are helping her.

 

Tojaz is doing a great job and that's the message she needs to hear, because that is the voice that is working for her right now. She has made a decision to go in a certain direction. It doesn't matter if I don't agree, its Jenny's decision. It's Jenny's choice to make. Not to sound condescending, but either way I'm proud of her. Not only that, I like Jenny.

 

If I stay I will just be repeating myself or potentially getting into other debates with posters and I don't want to do that. It doesn't help Jenny. If Jenny needs me she can PM me and I will more then happily give her some instant messenger details. But right now Tojaz is giving her the kind if advice she needs and I can leave happily knowing that she is in the safest of hands..

 

I will go onto another thread where hopefully I can have the same effect on a poster as Tojaz has had on Jenny. Afterall isn't this why we do this? To make a small difference in someone's life?

Edited March 6, 2013 by Mack05

[trippi1432]

I firmly believe her husband has been engaging in both passive aggressive behaviour (there are different forms of this kind of behaviour) and emotional abuse. My mind is not for changing on this issue. While I fully acknowledge that Absewarriors message could have been phrased better, I do agree with many of the points he raised.

 

I was going to post yesterday, but the thread was moving so fast, I found it fruitless to attempt. I will agree that AW's posts could have been phrased better, but those posts did not need to be played upon to drag out the drama.

 

What Mack points out here is something that I wanted to address, we throw the word emotional abuse or abusive around a lot on these forums, currently what Jen and John are going through is typical when a marriage is in trouble. It's NOT gaslighting. In no way have I've seen for these many pages that John is intentionally making Jen believe one thing while the other is true. Yes, he is stonewalling...yes, he is exhibiting passive/aggressive behavior....both of them are due to the situation. Both are reacting to each other DUE TO THE SITUATION.

 

If someone would like a testimony to verbal and emotional abuse...I have 15 years of it to compare Jen's current situation to...so I consider myself a little bit of an expert on the subject. What we do have in this situation, which is very much like Allie's situation, is the husband's lack of being able to forgive. In that, yes, he is neglecting the marriage because he is on the fence. This is what happens in these situations, but the last thing either of them need is accusations of abuse to put a nail in the coffin.

 

Back to the business of helping the situation because it can still go either way, no sense over-dramatizing.

 

And Yas, I know you like Homer....but I still say education is needed on when application of the principles for them to work. You can know it inside and out and apply his advice or anyone's advice for that matter, at the wrong time or in the wrong situation and then wonder how it all fell apart.

[Mack05]

Good post Trippi. I still maintain that there are different levels and extremities to emotional abuse. I believe some abuse is done with cynical intent and that with others its not malicious (i.e. they are acting out because of hurt/fear/ignorance). I have always maintained I don't believe that John is Malicious.

 

It's certainly not a black and white topic. Giving your wife more or less the silent treatment for 4 months, pushing her away whilst trying to make a decision that seemingly you have no idea how to make.....I guess this kind of behaviour needs a new 'term'.

 

btw I'm sorry you had to go through what you did..

Edited March 6, 2013 by Mack05

[AllieKat]

I think the saddest thing here is until yesterday you Mack and Yas were actually really helping Jenny! I think I read you pleadged to support her and help her through this (along with Tojaz) the whole way.

 

So what your word is crap? (Excluding Toj) you guys guiding this girl till this point and because of warriors post you all changed your mind? That boggles me be consistent like you told her to be, support her and help her like you said you would.

[Mack05]

I think the saddest thing here is until yesterday you Mack and Yas were actually really helping Jenny! I think I read you pleadged to support her and help her through this (along with Tojaz) the whole way.

 

So what your word is crap? (Excluding Toj) you guys guiding this girl till this point and because of warriors post you all changed your mind? That boggles me be consistent like you told her to be, support her and help her like you said you would.

 

Allie Throughout my posts I raised numerous concerns over John's behaviour. Initially, I felt it best to save the marriage and then address his issues.

 

I have since had a change of opinion. I don't believe the marriage can be saved UNLESS he recognises that his behaviour (call it want you want) is extremely detrimental to a marriage. This playing the victim and pushing Jenny away for 5 months is beyond emotional immaturity.

 

My mind hasn't changed in that I still support Jenny and the belief that marriage can be saved. I think he will come to his senses at some stage (either in the house or if he moves out). My mind was changed (from Abse's post) in that I don't believe it can be a healthy union, unless he brings something new to the table. I think with all the emotional abuse stuff, the point above that I am trying to make has gotten lost.

 

Whether its emotional abuse or not..I think its, but f*** it I'm not an expert..This is not the point I wanted to get stuck on..

Edited March 6, 2013 by Mack05

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Ok thank you all for your support! I am moving past this because it's become negative BS. On to what matters saving my marriage.

 

I think being on my medication is helping me a lot with my anxiousness. I am doing well not starting any fighting and though today is only day 3, me prancing around happy and doing me seems to be making him more needy. He acts like he wants my attention more. My hope is to be civil and kind but not a doormat in hopes he can reconsider the marriage.

 

Then if he can reconsider staying married I do think he would go to see a counselor. If John is invested in marriage he will go. He isn't going to go now though because all he is invested in is his negative feelings and anger. He isnt thinking about anything else other than himself.

 

That may or may not change but this is my plan.

[tojaz]

Ok thank you all for your support! I am moving past this because it's become negative BS. On to what matters saving my marriage.

 

I think being on my medication is helping me a lot with my anxiousness. I am doing well not starting any fighting and though today is only day 3, me prancing around happy and doing me seems to be making him more needy. He acts like he wants my attention more. My hope is to be civil and kind but not a doormat in hopes he can reconsider the marriage.

 

Then if he can reconsider staying married I do think he would go to see a counselor. If John is invested in marriage he will go. He isn't going to go now though because all he is invested in is his negative feelings and anger. He isnt thinking about anything else other than himself.

 

That may or may not change but this is my plan.

 

I think your really starting to get a handle on things Jenny. So moving forward, what happens next?

 

TOJAZ

[Jennyfromtheblick]

I think your really starting to get a handle on things Jenny. So moving forward, what happens next?

 

TOJAZ

 

Thats a good question! I suppose I am going to act as if the divorce is coming. I mean honestly I have nothing else to go by. He has said that is what will be. Though I do hope he'll change that and if he does I will happily encourage that choice as long as we can both deal with these issues that led us here.

 

Not much of a plan I guess but I have really done everything else I could do except move out and in my gut aside from all the reasons it would be difficult I just don't feel that is right. I think I am going to act like the 33 yearold woman I am and be respectful and kind but put myself first.

 

I do love John so much but I really don't feel there is anything left to do except love myself. I do like The homer approach but not 100% so I am using done of that.

 

Today John again spoke to me first and asked if I was sick too. I was in bed sleeping when he came home because I pulled a muscle in my back at work and I was in a lot of pain. I simply replied no Im not sick. He then commented that he wondered how upset parents at school would be since they closed school for a storm that didnt hit us! Then he told me about his day.

 

I think this is good but not getting hopes up. I smile and have been acting happy and its actually making me happy!! Lol

 

I actually dream of counseling! I want to go so bad!

[Absewarrior]

Jenny:

What you are doing is absolutely brilliant.[/sIZE][/FONT]

 

You are absolutely right...my focus should have been on how to help you saveyour union, and to give you support. I apologize for not understanding what was needed, and can only blame what my wife calls my fundamental logical prone brain.

I apologize for not giving you compassion when that is what you needed, andI apologize for being pedantic and clinical when you needed caring andunderstand....not really great at both. I am an old dad and grandfather andthis really did make me afraid for you as a young woman, but you are right,your perception is much more accurate than my assumptions. My wife has taken meto task for being such a "man" and I understand that I was listeningwith logic in a situation where you needed care.

 

Many are correct as emotional abuse isn't something someone can determinefrom a thread. Yet, as a grandfather and father of three beautiful daughters, Iwrite much in fear for your safety and as my wife suggested, perhaps I wasletting my own fears of "what if this happened to my daughter" get inthe way. I am a protective father and perhaps that clouded my thought processof how it would feel if I just methodically gave you opinions. In the end, itis not helpful and Mack is right...this is why we come here, to help and behelped.

 

The truth is that I do care, or I would not have came back to check on thisthread. I can't imagine what it must feel like to have the burden of saving amarriage when the other person is so hurt they cannot participate right now.

 

I am not interested in being right or trying to argue with my detractors,but I am interested in making sure that you are okay. When you spoke of suicidemy heart dropped and I realized that I had failed you. No one should ever feelthat bad about any situation. I hope that I am not to blame.

 

]I certainly did not mean for this to become drama, or to take the focus fromyour terrible circumstances as I understand you are in much pain. I can onlysay that sometimes even an old man can understand that he was thoughtless.

AW

Edited March 7, 2013 by Absewarrior

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Warrior thats so kind of you and I have mad respect for to say that. Thank you! You are not to blame for my awful night of feeling like I wanted to take pills. That was depression talking!

 

Thank you again so much!