Author Mr. Lucky Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 If you had no other children, then I would say pay for the wedding. Since you do have other children (and I presume girls?), then this will mean that you will be buying a house (or maybe a car) and paying for a wedding if you do it for your first daughter. James, no other girls, I have 3 boys and her. The 3 oldest (her included) all successfully "launched" and we were careful to give each roughly the same financial support. That this would upset that balance is one of the points that I've made with my wife. And one that I'll reinforce when we talk this weekend... The primary issue is that your wife lacks respect for you. You need to figure out the underlying reason for that. This lack of respect is proven by the rude comments your wife made putting you down for your "genetic inability." She didn't just chalk this up to a reasonable difference of opinion about finances. She attacked and dissed you personally, fundamentally. In fact it sounds like the above is your wife's way of calling you stupid. Abe, you're Loveshack's version of Joe McCarthy, seeing a ball-busting, disrespecting, undercutting spouse under (or in ?) every bed. I just see someone that I love with a different opinion than me. I don't feel threatened by her expression of that opinion, even if it includes a small dig at my unrelentingly male point of view. YMMV... Mr. Lucky 5 Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Abe, you're Loveshack's version of Joe McCarthy, seeing a ball-busting, disrespecting, undercutting spouse under (or in ?) every bed. I just see someone that I love with a different opinion than me. I don't feel threatened by her expression of that opinion, even if it includes a small dig at my unrelentingly male point of view. YMMV... Mr. Lucky Couldn't have said it better myself. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Mr. L, I asked the question about her retirement or yours because this situation reminds of something that happened early in my marriage. Turned out that a certain spend was really important to my W, until she was the one who was going to have to work to fund it. Suddenly she realized it wasn't so important. James, no other girls, I have 3 boys and her. The 3 oldest (her included) all successfully "launched" and we were careful to give each roughly the same financial support. That this would upset that balance is one of the points that I've made with my wife. And one that I'll reinforce when we talk this weekend... Abe, you're Loveshack's version of Joe McCarthy, seeing a ball-busting, disrespecting, undercutting spouse under (or in ?) every bed. I just see someone that I love with a different opinion than me. I don't feel threatened by her expression of that opinion, even if it includes a small dig at my unrelentingly male point of view. YMMV... Mr. Lucky 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Hoping to get some feedback on an issue causing much friction between my wife and I. The backstory: As the father of a beautiful young girl (she's now 28), I knew there would likely someday be a wedding in her future and that, as the parents of the bride, we'd be responsible for footing the bill. So when she was young, I set up a monthly investment plan towards that eventuality. By sticking with the program, we had accumulated about $20K towards the cost when she turned 20. We were always upfront with things financial with our children and had told our daughter what we were doing and involved her in monitoring the progress. She has many wonderful qualities but is very stubborn, headstrong and picky - I can see how she'd be a challenge for any prospective beau and, for years, that turned out to be the case. In one of our infrequent discussions about the money, she asked "what happens if I never get married?" I told her the money would be hers for down payment on a house, etc. So 3 years ago, after her latest LTR had ended and, graduated from college and a couple of years into her career, she did indeed decide she wanted to use the money to buy a house. My daughter is financially very conservative and responsible so her decision didn't surprise me. My wife was also enthusiastically on board with the decision even though I sat both of them down and explained that, since we were emptying the kitty, this meant no wedding fund. They agreed, she bought the house which she has owned since then. They've had a lot of fun fixing it up and, no surprise, my daughter had managed the house and her finances well. So that brings us to the present and guess what? - my daughter has met Mr. Right. He's a fine young man and my little girl, having matured somewhat, has actually learned the value of compromise in a relationship. They seem very well matched and we're happy to have him in the family. Even before the recent engagement was announced, my daughter has said all the right things regarding the wedding. She told us she knows she already accessed the funds for the house and they're planning a small civil ceremony with a few friends and family members and then off to a short honeymoon they're paying for. She says she's perfectly happy with this and I have no reason not to believe her. My problem is not with my daughter but with my wife who has now decided that we're denying her every girl's dream of matching dresses, flower arrangements and her dance with Dad in front of 200 guests. Also unspoken but implied, my wife is being deprived of her "Mother of the Bride" experience with her only daughter (we also have two boys and I have a son from a previous marriage) in this "once in a lifetime occasion". She also hints that this is what my daughter really wants but is obviously reluctant to tell me. Having put 2 kids though college and one through grad school with one teenager still to go, we'd have to take a sizeable chunk out of retirement savings to do so, something I'm firmly opposed to. My wife's response is that it's her money and and her decision too and so here we are. Am I being unreasonable ??? I'm looking for some unfiltered LS feedback, both male and female, to help me decide if my decision to stand my ground is correct. I'm also hoping for some help in how to deal with my wife who is very upset over what she sees as a unilateral decision on my part. Thanks in advance... Mr. Lucky First of all, congratulations on your daughter's marriage!!! You speak of compromise. Is there a way you can compromise with your wife? I understand both sides' point of view. Compromise seems to be the best solution. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
loveunlimited Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 James, you might want to refer OP to some of your threads before rendering opinions on "marital respect." Just sayin'. If only you were able to take that sort of pugnacious attitude towards who you really should be directing it to! You wouldn't need to post on Love Shack for answers to your marital issues. You're single, right? Figures. Please don't worry about responding. On 'Ignore'. (I'm a quick learner). Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mr. Lucky Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 Mr. L, I asked the question about her retirement or yours because this situation reminds of something that happened early in my marriage. Turned out that a certain spend was really important to my W, until she was the one who was going to have to work to fund it. Suddenly she realized it wasn't so important. Mem, my wife and I have each looked at our careers differently in ways that have nothing to do with the issues at hand. She just retired from a job that she didn't like and that stressed her out and will probably do volunteer/mentoring stuff from here on out. I love my job (which happens to pay well) and will probably have to eventually be carried kicking and screaming out the door. If only you were able to take that sort of pugnacious attitude towards who you really should be directing it to! You wouldn't need to post on Love Shack for answers to your marital issues. I'm going to pass right over the irony of someone with 450+ LS posts (at least under your current ID ) denigrating the need of others to post here and simply say that I'm thankful for all the responses, yours included. I'll follow up here after this weekend... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mr. Lucky Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 I wanted to post a quick update as we just had the "talk" last night. Turns out that my daughter was sincere in her desire for a small ceremony, something my wife accepted gracefully. We're in the early stages of planning a party to be held at our house after the honeymoon with the slight complication that, rather than any reception overtones, my daughter wants it to be a benefit for a cause she's involved in. Thanks again for all the feedback... Mr. Lucky 8 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 That's cool. And your daughter's idea of supporting something she and her H2B, is commendable. nice gal you got there.... Well done, congratulations to the parents, the bride and groom - and well done you for sorting this out sensibly! Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Absolutely loving this outcome!!! Well done that girl! (And family) Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Absolutely loving this outcome!!! Well done that girl! (And family) Totally agree! Link to post Share on other sites
ana0pera Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 super glad that everything was solved easily! Link to post Share on other sites
Eclypse Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Excellent that its sorted out. I can see the appeal behind the big, expensive wedding but there's no point in crippling yourself financially for one night of memories. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mr. Lucky Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 So the plan is to cheap out on the celebration yet expect the guests to donate to whatever your daughter's cause is? Interesting... I guess that would be one interpretation. The get together won't be a reception and the invites will plainly state the purpose so guests can attend or not and donate or not as they please. Did I mention my daughter was single minded ? She has pushed us in the last couple of years away from big Christmas gift exchanges to a more measured celebration where we each draw one name for giving. The balance of the "Christmas Club" funds have gone to adopting families and kids that would otherwise go without, a system that has brought a different perspective to the holidays. I'm proud of that girl ... Mr. Lucky 6 Link to post Share on other sites
CC12 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I mean, that's very nice that your family gives to charity, however, when it comes to wedding arrangements, etiquette applies, or at least it used to apply at some point in the past. The purpose of a wedding, and the reception afterwards is a communal celebration of the taking of solemn vows of matrimony by the bride and groom. I agree with this, but are you purposely missing the part about it not being a wedding reception at all? The OP said, and you even quoted it: The get together won't be a reception It sounds like the bride said, "I don't want a reception or a big wedding, but if you guys want to have a party when we get back from our honeymoon, let's not make it a reception, but a charity event." There is nothing tacky, rude, or classless about it as long as it's kept completely separate from any connection to the wedding, and that's what it sounds like they plan to do. Your apparent misunderstanding aside, you said some very unkind and uncalled-for things about his daughter. In trying to point out the etiquette breaches of someone else, you committed many of your own. It was embarrassing to read. OP, glad your family worked something out. I hope your event and your daughter's wedding are successful. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Sauron Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Very typical of a typical wife. Here is the plan do you agree, yes I agree, then start whining to spend more money to hell with the plan. I would tell my wife to go get a job and raise the money herself. Unfortunately your daughter has a 50% chance of needing a divorce lawyer. Maybe you should tell your wife to go back to work and raise the money, half for the wedding and half for the legal fund. Disclaimer, my daughters always get whatever they want from me. I am a noodle with them and loaded so I have spoiled them over the years. Good luck to you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Janesays Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 It's rude to tell her guests how to spend their money, regardless of whether or not she feels it's going to a 'good cause.' In fact, even expecting money or gifts is rude. I think it's nice that your daughter is so community minded. I am myself. I also prefer to donate to charities in my own name for the tax write off. But I would never be so brazen to ask someone to donate to a cause on my behalf. Especially considering not everyone may feel the cause is worthy as your daughter does. That's just really really bad manners. Just have a small little celebration with cake and champagne at your place. The mention of gifts or donations should not be mentioned AT ALL. That will be proper and totally charming. As a gift for your daughter, maybe YOU can donate to her cause of choice. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I'm sure it's optional - they're not forced or obliged to do ti. I wouldn't feel insulted... if i was on track to buy them a coffee percolator and coffee cups, and she said -' would you do me the favour of giving the money to registered charitable cause*...?' why should I mind? if it makes her happy, and it's what she would prefer, and it's going to do good....I really don't see the harm in it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Tacky, rude and insulting? Hardly! Too bad we can't DISLIKE a post on here! It is expected that if you get invited to a wedding and you accept, then you bring a gift. In this case, the bride is requesting that the gift be donated, because she wishes to help others. A meal will still be served at the reception, and if a gift is brought, then I doubt that it will be turned away. My guess is that it may still be donated. Personally, I would find it rather enjoyable to buy a gift, knowing that it will be helping someone who needs it. Sometimes I go to weddings and buy gifts for a couple who I know has more money and things than I do. When they already own a home and have furniture in it, then I question how my four slice toaster will be of any value to them! I wish we had more tacky, rude, and insulting people in this world! It might just be a better world! 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Janesays Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 What Miss Manners says about soliciting gifts during your wedding for charity: Miss Manners' Guide to a Surprisingly Dignified Wedding - Jacobina Martin, Judith Martin - Google Books Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Miss manners is about 30 years out of date. You're kidding, right?? Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Miss manners is about 30 years out of date. You're kidding, right?? ^5 So right... times are a changing... Although the book did get good reviews.. Here is the first one, and one I agree with Witty and refreshing. Although I won't be following all of her advice, sometimes practicality outweighs tradition and etiquette in my opinion, especially if the spirit of the etiquette is followed. I'm sure Miss Manners would disagree. Edited October 8, 2012 by Art_Critic Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mr. Lucky Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Just have a small little celebration with cake and champagne at your place. The mention of gifts or donations should not be mentioned AT ALL. That will be proper and totally charming. As a gift for your daughter, maybe YOU can donate to her cause of choice. Um, there won't be cake and/or champagne served. It's not a reception. According to my daughter, the bride and groom won't be registering anywhere. They're not mentioning or soliciting gifts. At her insistence, there won't be any mention of the wedding and, timing wise due to some things we have going on, the benefit will be 90 days or more after the ceremony. What she said to us was simply this - "I'm not interested in a conventional wedding reception. Would you and Mom consider taking whatever resources in terms of time, space and money you would be comfortable providing and allocate them to this cause instead? It would mean more to me and my HTB" We said yes... Unfortunately your daughter has a 50% chance of needing a divorce lawyer. Maybe you should tell your wife to go back to work and raise the money, half for the wedding and half for the legal fund. In this case it sounds like the bride as is quite typical of many modern women is just treating the wedding as something she has finally gotten around to checking off her to-do list, it has no particular emotional or social significance to her, it is not going to be a day to be cherished or remembered for its own sake, it's just a useful vehicle to cadge money for the more important item on her agenda. Hate less, live longer... Mr. Lucky 3 Link to post Share on other sites
hotgurl Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I am confused. So you are not having a wedding period. You are just throwing a charity dinner. Is that correct? Are you and your wife paying for the dinner or is your daughter? Are just just going to go to a court house to be married? Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 LOL two of the rudest posters on here criticizing Ms. Manners....it figures.... At least my post on LS didn't insult the OP's daughter like yours did .. me rude ? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mr. Lucky Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 I am confused. So you are not having a wedding period. You are just throwing a charity dinner. Is that correct? Are you and your wife paying for the dinner or is your daughter? Are just just going to go to a court house to be married? I don't blame you - as they say on TV, it's been an evolving situation. Also, this is still a year away. They want a civil ceremony with a few friends and family. If there's something afterwards, it will be small and brief as they're planning on leaving later that night for the honeymoon. And yes, looks like we will be hosting a benefit some time after they return. Many details still to be worked out... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
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