Men talking about women

[Lonely Ronin]

I can put this thread to bead with something I learned as a child.

 

Life isn't fare, fing deal with it.

 

I bet 99% of the threads on LS are people complaining because this or that isn't fare, or they didn't/don't get what they think they should.

[verhrzn]

So you really don't think men are automatically disqualified by a significant portion of women for being short, out of shape, having a "weird face," bad hair, and so forth? I can assure you, for many men out there, these ARE actual problems. They might not be their only problems, but these are NOT imaginary issues.

 

Yes and no. Are there some bitchy, superficial women out there? Sure are! But in my experience, the guys who are complaining about women being superficial are also damn superficial themselves (only go after the really hot ladies.)

 

Furthermore, while some girls will reject some guys based on looks (which is just the nature of the beast), that does NOT mean guys have to be some narrowly-defined physical specimen in order to attract women. If they are decently hygienic and have a good personality (and ya know, approach women) they'll probably do just fine. This has been proven over and over again.... women have "ideals," but REALLY relax them when she finds a guy whose personality charms her.

 

Ya know Matt Smith, who plays the 11th Doctor? He's kind of a goofy looking guy. But he is known in geek circles as a sex symbol to women. This guy... is a sex symbol. Let that sink in.

 

The huge vast majority of women do not care about "alpha males," or guys with huge muscles, or any of the other things that a lot of guys seem to THINK we care about. (Penises I may grant you, but how the heck would a girl know what size a guy's penis is until AFTER she's slept with him??)

 

The "accepted" look for men is much, MUCH wider than the "accepted" look for women. You can't even glance at a newsstand without this being obvious.

[Lonely Ronin]

The "accepted" look for men is much, MUCH wider than the "accepted" look for women. You can't even glance at a newsstand without this being obvious.

 

The thing you seem to miss, is that men are consolidated on what they find attractive, and imo women are not.

[Jane2011]

Good thread. (Can't read it all, but skimmed and whatnot.)

 

Anyway, I've definitely talked about the penis size of every single guy I've had sex with, but not necessarily to every female friend I had at the time, nor necessarily at length or in detail.

 

About who's more objectified and who's more superficial toward the opposite sex: men or women. I think men are strangely both more critical of and accepting of women's bodies. It seems to me that men scrutinize women's bodies a lot more so than vice versa, but they will also be with just about any woman.

 

My ex, for instance, used to always comment on physical things about me and other women, and I would think, 'God, I don't even ever notice you noticing these things. I'm amazed that you do.'

 

I'm talking comments on the eyebrows, slight protrusions of the stomach, amount of back fat, if one eye is slightly more opened up than the other, the quality of cheekbones, thickness of top lip in relation to lower lip, etc.

 

I talk about men being cute or not, and, if I've had sex with him, I'll comment on his penis size to good friends, but I don't notice tiny little things about a guy's body.

 

That said, that same ex of mine who scrutinizes tiny things on a woman's body also has conveyed willingness to date women who's level of fatness I would not go for in a male counterpart.

[TheBigQuestion]

 

Furthermore, while some girls will reject some guys based on looks (which is just the nature of the beast), that does NOT mean guys have to be some narrowly-defined physical specimen in order to attract women. If they are decently hygienic and have a good personality (and ya know, approach women) they'll probably do just fine. This has been proven over and over again.... women have "ideals," but REALLY relax them when she finds a guy whose personality charms her.

 

Ya know Matt Smith, who plays the 11th Doctor? He's kind of a goofy looking guy. But he is known in geek circles as a sex symbol to women. This guy... is a sex symbol. Let that sink in.

 

The huge vast majority of women do not care about "alpha males," or guys with huge muscles, or any of the other things that a lot of guys seem to THINK we care about. (Penises I may grant you, but how the heck would a girl know what size a guy's penis is until AFTER she's slept with him??)

 

The "accepted" look for men is much, MUCH wider than the "accepted" look for women. You can't even glance at a newsstand without this being obvious.

 

On the other hand, if women look at least presentable and have a nice personality, they'll ALSO usually do just fine. They won't need DD-cups or a J-Lo booty to get dates. Men have their ideals, but they ALSO tend to relax them quite a bit when they find someone that pushes their buttons. What's your point?

 

As far as your Doctor Who example, I can see why certain subsets of women would consider him a sex symbol. He's no Adonis but he certainly doesn't look like an ugly guy to me. I'm not sure why you emphasize it as if he's some freak of nature. Men have weird crushes like this too. Plenty of guys I know are into Dee from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, despite the fact that she quite honestly looks like a bird. What's your point?

 

If you're going by newsstands, most men who appear on magazine covers tend to have a majority of physical traits in common with each other. All things being equal, most women will prefer a guy to at least be cut (they don't necessarily like bodybuilders).

 

My point is that you don't have a point, except that you're happy to demonstrate that when it comes to these topics, you have major blinders on.

[joystickd]

Yes and no. Are there some bitchy, superficial women out there? Sure are! But in my experience, the guys who are complaining about women being superficial are also damn superficial themselves (only go after the really hot ladies.)

 

Furthermore, while some girls will reject some guys based on looks (which is just the nature of the beast), that does NOT mean guys have to be some narrowly-defined physical specimen in order to attract women. If they are decently hygienic and have a good personality (and ya know, approach women) they'll probably do just fine. This has been proven over and over again.... women have "ideals," but REALLY relax them when she finds a guy whose personality charms her.

 

Ya know Matt Smith, who plays the 11th Doctor? He's kind of a goofy looking guy. But he is known in geek circles as a sex symbol to women. This guy... is a sex symbol. Let that sink in.

 

The huge vast majority of women do not care about "alpha males," or guys with huge muscles, or any of the other things that a lot of guys seem to THINK we care about. (Penises I may grant you, but how the heck would a girl know what size a guy's penis is until AFTER she's slept with him??)

 

The "accepted" look for men is much, MUCH wider than the "accepted" look for women. You can't even glance at a newsstand without this being obvious.

I totally agree with you on this. The thing is most people take the actions of a small group and assume its the consensus for all of that gender. I like women the size of Angelina Castro. http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/122/32d5ff9b582747788421654527515578/l.jpg

I could care less about the fake boobs but skinny women don't do it for me. I don't want to feel like I am dating a woman that should be on a feed the children commercial. The thing is men overall need to stop living in shame about what they desire. If you want a woman that looks like this http://toolsclippersprunershears.outdoor-garden.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/1c567_garden_tools__186924657_b081c751d2.jpg be proud of it and say it. Everyone wants different things but sometimes society has this conformity thing and it makes it hard to be deviate from the perceived norm

[Jane2011]

willingness to date women who's level of fatness I would not go for in a male counterpart.

 

Correction: *whose level of fatness....

[Quiet Storm]

I think men can objectify women, and simutaneously appreciate their other qualities. I don't think it's so black & white. He can love her boobs & butt, in addition to her non-physical attributes.

 

I think most men objectify women until they get to know them, and then they see the overall person, body+personality+character+temperament.

 

I accept this about men, and it doesn't bother me. It can be annoying, but I am not hurt or damaged by it. I remember one time I was carrying all these bags and pushing a baby stroller. The light was changing so I had to run accross the street. All these men were staring at my boobs bouncing up and down as I ran. It annoyed me, but it didn't hurt my feelings. Those men knew nothing about me or my personality. They just saw a pair of big boobs bouncing across the street, and admired them just like they would admire a hot car. If they put that image into their spank bank, so what? It doesn't change my life or cause me problems if some lonely, horny stranger is thinking about me. I'll be home doing my thing oblivious and busy, with no thought at all of what some random dude might think or say to his friends.

 

However, even though I'm only mildly annoyed, I do feel that women have the right to be bothered by this. I don't think it's right to tell people how they should feel.

 

However, some things in life we can't change, and I feel that this is one of them. I think when we discover things in life that we can't change, we can either accept them, or complain and keep wishing things were different. I save my worries and complaints for things I see as changeable. I know that men can control their response and refrain from looking, but IMO that urge to look (and objectify) will always be there, it's part of being a man. Just like thinking your baby is beautiful is part of being a woman.

 

Also, I think most men will run their mouths to their friends about ONS or FWBs, but not serious relationships. IMO, most men keep the details about their wife's body parts to themselves. Not because he doesn't ever objectify her, but because he doesn't like it when other men do. He doesn't want his friends to have those mind movies of his woman.

 

I also know that some women enjoy being objectified, and thrive on male attention. I've been in the store with my husband and girls have sashayed on by in skimpy clothes, and then they give that sly backwards glance to see if he was looking. So men get confused... because some girls are flattered by it and some are insulted.

[oaks]

Yes. Don't you know that being outside the usual range of the opposite sex's preferences dooms you to permanent celibacy?

 

Oh. Well this sucks. Can I start a thread about how all women have unreasonable standards? Please? It must be my turn by now!

[ThaWholigan]

I'm sorry, but I got distracted by the thought of boobs bouncing up and down :bunny:.....

 

I kid, I kid

 

I think men can objectify women, and simutaneously appreciate their other qualities. I don't think it's so black & white. He can love her boobs & butt, in addition to her non-physical attributes.

 

I think most men objectify women until they get to know them, and then they see the overall person, body+personality+character+temperament.

 

I know a couple of guys that don't, but they are quite demisexual in their nature. But yes, As much as I love the physical form of a woman, it's her non-physical attributes as well as the physical expression that adds to this for me.

 

I accept this about men, and it doesn't bother me. It can be annoying, but I am not hurt or damaged by it. I remember one time I was carrying all these bags and pushing a baby stroller. The light was changing so I had to run accross the street. All these men were staring at my boobs bouncing up and down as I ran. It annoyed me, but it didn't hurt my feelings. Those men knew nothing about me or my personality. They just saw a pair of big boobs bouncing across the street, and admired them just like they would admire a hot car. If they put that image into their spank bank, so what? It doesn't change my life or cause me problems if some lonely, horny stranger is thinking about me. I'll be home doing my thing oblivious and busy, with no thought at all of what some random dude might think or say to his friends.

My mum has stories similar to this too, as does a few girls I know. She doesn't seem especially bothered by it either, but likely because she doesn't think about it.

 

However, even though I'm only mildly annoyed, I do feel that women have the right to be bothered by this. I don't think it's right to tell people how they should feel.

I guess I was just baffled as to why they felt objectified, but I wasn't looking at it through their lens at the time of making the thread, but rather my own. If I was being ogled at by women, I wouldn't care - I'd probably like it! . I think I understand a little better now.

 

However, some things in life we can't change, and I feel that this is one of them. I think when we discover things in life that we can't change, we can either accept them, or complain and keep wishing things were different. I save my worries and complaints for things I see as changeable. I know that men can control their response and refrain from looking, but IMO that urge to look (and objectify) will always be there, it's part of being a man. Just like thinking your baby is beautiful is part of being a woman.

I agree. I sometimes try my absolute best not to look, but I have to ask myself why I feel guilty about it? I'm not an asexual, I like women. It just frustrates me sometimes, like I'm wrong for doing it, but I don't think I am.

 

Also, I think most men will run their mouths to their friends about ONS or FWBs, but not serious relationships. IMO, most men keep the details about their wife's body parts to themselves. Not because he doesn't ever objectify her, but because he doesn't like it when other men do. He doesn't want his friends to have those mind movies of his woman.

This is so true .

 

I also know that some women enjoy being objectified, and thrive on male attention. I've been in the store with my husband and girls have sashayed on by in skimpy clothes, and then they give that sly backwards glance to see if he was looking. So men get confused... because some girls are flattered by it and some are insulted.

Yes, I've had women actually try their hardest to get me to notice them on occasion, whereas I will also get the occasional dirty look if I happen to look to my left and see a massive cleavage staring back at me. I largely think it's because I'm single to be honest, otherwise I probably wouldn't notice as much as I do.

 

I understand a little better though - I think it will just be easier for me not to talk about it. And just be surreptitious about the way I look at women .

Edited September 20, 2012 by ThaWholigan

[Ross MwcFan]

Some women will think it's even wrong to look at a womans body and think sexual thoughts.

 

Just be you.

[january2011]

My guy and other guys can talk about women's bodies, in general, if they like. I just think it's very indiscrete and immature to talk about a current partner's body with anyone else other than the woman herself or her healthcare provider (if you are married).

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Wholigan, first, I don’t think men are “bad” for talking about women’s bodies. I do think there are things women do where they could learn to better communicate with men and learn to talk about men better so their daughters don't pick up their bad habits.

 

I think a lot of men don’t understand the ramifications of the way they decide to talk about women and their bodies and how these comments come off. I don't think it's fair to get all cheeky and use boyish charm to talk about how you just like women's bodies and expect that to be a good enough answer about the way dialogue and communication is handled surrounding the very sensitive topic of women's bodies.

 

You and other guys really need to understand something. We live in a world that is never short on talking about women’s bodies. We live in a world that is never short on setting up expectations about women’s bodies. When some actress gains weight, it’s all over the place to an extent that simply doesn’t happen with male actors. When young starlets turn “legal”, it’s fair game to talk about their bodies. When a woman ages and is "past her prime", society is much more quick to write off these women then they are men. Which is why you see 20 year old babes in movies with 50 year old Sean Conncery types.

 

Women’s bodies get discussed at length, ad nauseam. As a woman, you get to a point where you are simply sick of having to hear yet another guys opinion on your body or another woman’s body. It’s tiring and it’s selfish. Even when it's complimentary like "Wow, her boobs are beautiful". Who cares if you think her boobs are beautiful? Does that add value to your life? Does it add value to hers? Does it make you feel more liek a man to prejudge and rate women based on their body parts?

 

For the most part, when men decide to comment on women’s bodies, it’s not out of some kind of positive celebration of her beauty. It’s about what *he* likes about her physically. It’s about his selfish pleasure he gets from his visual pleasure in her. It’s not about really celebrating female beauty. So it really bothered me when you got all cheeky about how you like women's bodies with a smile. You seem to think that by saying this, it should be enough for you to talk about women's bodies anyway that makes you happy. Because you are attracted to them. But what about women? What do we get to decide in how we are talked about?

 

When you are a woman and live in a world that is never on shortage of talking about your body or other women’s bodies, it is exhausting. Alot of women are simply tired. They are tired of being put on the chopping block all the time and evaluated like juicy lobsters in a tank. They are tired of hearing how other women don't come up to snuff or do based on some average guy picking apart a woman's body like she wasn't a full person.

 

All my life I have had men and boys make comments about my body. Comments they felt they were entitled to make. Some comments where positive and some were negative. But either way, there seems to be an entitled attitude a lot of men hold that they get to talk anyway that pleases them about women’s bodies and they deserve to share that with you or with other people. A lot of guys seem to think that because the yare heterosexual men, that it's their right to talk about women anyway that makse them happy. Be damned about how their conversation really represents a woman or makes her feel.

 

You said that you like women’s bodies and you freely admit it with a smile. But do you think that kind of response really helps to understand what it’s like for women who are so use to hearing women’s bodies talked about and live in a world that is obsessed with women’s bodies? Do you think because you are confident and strong in your like for the female body that women aren’t allowed to eel bothered by the kind of conversations men hold around women’s bodies? How about cutting us a break sometimes?

 

Okay we get it. There isn’t a woman a live that doesn’t understand that heterosexual men like women’s bodies. But it’s like you guys are proud of the way you objectify women that you don’t even stop to think about the daily pressure women have regarding this and how your comments, even when you believe them to be positive ones, are still judgements about the way are bodies look.

 

You want to talk about women’s bodies anyway you want, you can. But don’t act like you do it beacuse you love women. Don't act like you are doing it because you want to celebrate women. You do it because you love your own visual pleasure more. And that’s why comments about women’s bodies often come off insincere and not about real appreciation for women but mearly appreciation for the pleasure you derive sexually from them as a toy to your personal visual pleasure.

 

I am not saying men shouldn't be attracted to women or certain physical features. But I am tired of men justifying the way they choose to talk about women under the idea that since men think women are beautiulf and sexy, it's okay to talk about them anyway they want.

 

I am sure many where here, nt just my self have heard things about their bodies since the time they were little girls. Sometimes you get sick of hearing men talk about what they like and don't like like little boys in candy shops picking out their Frankenstien like model of perfection.

 

We get it . Really. Men think women are beautiful. But this doesn't mean it's okay to talk about women as an accumlation of body parts. And it doesn't mean that because men find women beautiful that their objectification of them is justified.

[Lonely Ronin]

Dy,

 

I understand where you are coming from, but when you post about this topic, you remind me of how almost any conversation about a woman's physical appearance is a loose loose situation for a guy. I've picked up a date before and told her she looked beautiful or pretty etc, and gotten the "your not getting in my pants tonight" resonce, WTF? Iv'e also been on a date and gotten the pissed off "don't you think I'm pretty" question because "you didn't say anything". From a guys stand point, some times it seems like we are screwed either way.

[todreaminblue]

You could just save your glowing remarks about women's bodies for private conversations with friends, or for the woman you're with. When men talk about women's bodies in such a public way, even if their hearts are in the right place, there's a certain... objectifying going on. Literally, the women's bodies become objects. Something to be looked at, something to be consumed. It is not a happy thing to feel like you are an object. Like your worth is somehow tied up in the thing you reside in.

 

Yes, you talk about other things you like. But you need to realize context.... tat culture still places so, so, SO much emphasis on women's value being tied to women's looks. You may mean your comments in a light-hearted, appreciative way, but they are occurring in a culture that treats physical attractiveness as paramount in a woman.

 

Speaking personally, I also feel very saddened when guys on here go on and on about what they like physically, because I could never ever match it. While guys' tastes MAY be somewhat individual, certain body types are still prized over others. So when you hear men go on and on and ON about how gorgeous this specific body type is, it really gets into women's brains and implants notions of inferiority. The implication being that, if you are not this body type, you are not beautiful. (I have yet to see or hear any male going on and on about how short fat women with tiny boobs are so hot.)

 

My question is, why do you NEED to talk about women's physique? Why is it necessary to discuss it in such a way? It seems to go beyond "hm I like this" into.... well, drolly territory. Why does your need to discuss women's bodies override women's need to not hear their bodies being judged?

 

 

true its not nice to walk past a group of men and be objectified especially when it is in ear shot I can understand guys talking about women and women talking about guys what you like what you dont like in public it makes it uncomfortable.My friend came over yesterday and hasnt seem me in quite a while told me that i was looking good.....then she said that she could see the weight loss that was a nice comment to make because not of vanity on my part that she can see the effort behind my weight loss....it made my effort feel like i was getting somewhere because i dont see it before anyone says i have a disorder body dysmorphic i know i have gone down now about three sizes.....its harder to see things when you see yourself everyday, i feel it but i cant see it.......so i think private comments are more in sync with what women want to hear not a whole bunch of comments from people who dont care or really know the woman they are discussing its meant to be sincere and heart felt appreciation of the person that you have as a friend or lover....deb

[Janesays]

Listen, I am a woman and I LIKE my body. I'll freely walk around naked in front of my boyfriend, no make up, bed head, puffy eyes from lack of sleep. Whatever. I like my body, it serves me well and if he disagrees, oh well. He's free to look elsewhere, I wouldn't change a single part of me.

 

With that said, I take no particular pride in how I look. Why should l? I had nothing to do with it. It's DNA; nothing more.

 

But you know what I AM proud of? My education, my research, my business built from scratch. The fact that I'm loyal and kind and make people laugh. I'm generous and patient and only slightly absented minded. Those are things I WORK at, every day

 

Now. I'm willing to bed that most of the men on this board checked out of my post. They are too busy imagining what I look like naked shuffling around my apartment.

 

Do you understand now?

 

The big problem I have with MY gender is a long time ago, we fought for equality. We told our daughters that women are capable and smart and could do so much more than make babies for some man!

 

We said that....but did we really believe it? Let me ask you this...how many woman inventors do you know? How many stay at home Moms do you know? When asked in high school what they wanted to do with their lives, how many of them said, "nothing! I just want to look pretty, procreate, and blow my husband three times a week so he doesn't leave me for someone younger!"

 

So what happened to us?

 

I'll tell you what...you don't listen to us. You just stare. When I'm talking to a guy about something REAL I always have to wonder if he really agrees or just want to get me into bed. Do my male friends really like me? Or are they hoping to take advantage of me someday? Does anything I ever do with my life REALLY matter? Or should I just buy a short skirt and be done with it already?

 

And, most importantly, is this how I want my future daughter to feel? Like the only opportunity she has in life is to be chosen by a man.....but only if she LOOKS the part?

 

It's not that I don't like my body. It's just that I hate feeling like all the work I do to every part of me doesn't mean a darn thing.

 

Also, I've never talked about a man's penis, height, muscles, finances or any of that nonsense. I try to treat people like I want to be treated.

 

Sorry for the typos here....my phone is acting up.

 

We said that....bu did we really believe it? Let me ask you this: how many women inventors

[Anela]

Listen, I am a woman and I LIKE my body. I'll freely walk around naked in front of my boyfriend, no make up, bed head, puffy eyes from lack of sleep. Whatever. I like my body, it serves me well and if he disagrees, oh well. He's free to look elsewhere, I wouldn't change a single part of me.

 

With that said, I take no particular pride in how I look. Why should l? I had nothing to do with it. It's DNA; nothing more.

 

But you know what I AM proud of? My education, my research, my business built from scratch. The fact that I'm loyal and kind and make people laugh. I'm generous and patient and only slightly absented minded. Those are things I WORK at, every day

 

Now. I'm willing to bed that most of the men on this board checked out of my post. They are too busy imagining what I look like naked shuffling around my apartment.

 

Do you understand now?

 

The big problem I have with MY gender is a long time ago, we fought for equality. We told our daughters that women are capable and smart and could do so much more than make babies for some man!

 

We said that....but did we really believe it? Let me ask you this...how many woman inventors do you know? How many stay at home Moms do you know? When asked in high school what they wanted to do with their lives, how many of them said, "nothing! I just want to look pretty, procreate, and blow my husband three times a week so he doesn't leave me for someone younger!"

 

So what happened to us?

 

I'll tell you what...you don't listen to us. You just stare. When I'm talking to a guy about something REAL I always have to wonder if he really agrees or just want to get me into bed. Do my male friends really like me? Or are they hoping to take advantage of me someday? Does anything I ever do with my life REALLY matter? Or should I just buy a short skirt and be done with it already?

 

And, most importantly, is this how I want my future daughter to feel? Like the only opportunity she has in life is to be chosen by a man.....but only if she LOOKS the part?

 

It's not that I don't like my body. It's just that I hate feeling like all the work I do to every part of me doesn't mean a darn thing.

 

Also, I've never talked about a man's penis, height, muscles, finances or any of that nonsense. I try to treat people like I want to be treated.

 

Sorry for the typos here....my phone is acting up.

 

We said that....bu did we really believe it? Let me ask you this: how many women inventors

 

Hear, hear!!

[TheBigQuestion]

^ Funny how most outspoken feminists majored in some BS in college like "Women's Studies." You want to change the world, try out engineering for a change. In that sense, I certainly agree with you. You want to be as good at something as men are? Go out and prove it.

[Janesays]

^ Funny how most outspoken feminists majored in some BS in college like "Women's Studies." You want to change the world, try out engineering for a change. In that sense, I certainly agree with you. You want to be as good at something as men are? Go out and prove it.

 

I am a scientist and at the top of my field. What do YOU do?

[TheBigQuestion]

I am a scientist and at the top of my field. What do YOU do?

 

I wasn't accusing you of anything. I was agreeing with your overall assessment.

[jobaba]

^ Funny how most outspoken feminists majored in some BS in college like "Women's Studies." You want to change the world, try out engineering for a change. In that sense, I certainly agree with you. You want to be as good at something as men are? Go out and prove it.

 

Why the f@ck would an attractive woman be an engineer?

 

So she could bury her head in books for 50 to 60 hours a week for four years and not date and then graduate to find out she's only making $70K after 5 years and working in a field that is mostly men?

 

Why do that when she could party throughout her college years, go on fraternity/sorority bar crawls, BS her way to a 3.1 GPA with a degree in Sociology, get a job in HR, and kiss arse her way up the ladder to a HR manager or creative director position making $115,000 a year.

[Janesays]

at

I wasn't accusing you of anything. I was agreeing with your overall assessment.

 

I'm sorry, I thought you were accusing me of majoring in women's studies and demanding I 'prove' my intelligence to you. I apologize if I misunderstood, but I've been asked to'prove myself and my intelligence to men all my life. So I may be a little touchy about it.

 

The worst part? When I try to and men act as if it doesn't matter and instead want to know my cup size, whether or not my p#ssy is tight and if I'm into anything freaky in bed.

 

I wish men knew how disheartening that is.

[LittlePrince]

I am a scientist and at the top of my field. What do YOU do?

But you have time to regularly post on LS....

[Janesays]

But you have time to regularly post on LS....

 

Ha, regular? I've been a member for well over a year and have less than 700 posts!

 

you, on the other hand....

[TheBigQuestion]

Why the f@ck would an attractive woman be an engineer?

 

So she could bury her head in books for 50 to 60 hours a week for four years and not date and then graduate to find out she's only making $70K after 5 years and working in a field that is mostly men?

 

Why do that when she could party throughout her college years, go on fraternity/sorority bar crawls, BS her way to a 3.1 GPA with a degree in Sociology, get a job in HR, and kiss arse her way up the ladder to a HR manager or creative director position making $115,000 a year.

 

FWIW, some of the most disgraceful partiers I knew in college were engineering students.

 

I can see the point you're making, but I think you vastly overestimate the career track of someone working in HR. I'm about 3 years out of college now and most of the women I know who started on the path you described are still tending bars and waiting tables. The sole female engineer I know was unemployed for over a year after graduation, so maybe you have a good point. Who knows?