Dating Someone Out of Your League?

[denise_xo]

Ugh, for the last freaking time... there are people out there who don't have more good traits than bad. Sometimes, people are just kinda bad. Why is that so difficult for anyone to comprehend?? It is NOT low self-esteem to just call a spade a spade. It is NOT low self-esteem to say, well, I really don't have that many good qualities. Sometimes, it's just honest.

 

I've read that book, and yeah, not a fan, because it doesn't address that whole question of "Hmm, what if I DON'T have that many good qualities?"

 

Well, you have consistently failed to convinced anyone of what you are trying to communicate in this post. So, you can either take that as a sign that absolutely all of us are too stupid and too 'unrealistic' and too 'dishonest' to understand what you mean, or you can take it as an opportunity to reconsider either your point of view, or the ways in which you communicate it. But you've been beating this dead horse for so long now that we all know it by heart, without anyone (at least from what I have read) actually buying into the idea. If I were in your position, I would try to figure out some implications of that, rather than keep beating that dead horse over and over and over in the same manner.

[Lonely Ronin]

And yeah, I've gotten "advice." But it's been the same unrealistic advice that ignores my experiences, all rainbows and fluffy esteem. "Oh V you ARE attractive... even though you absolutely never get hit on, guys have dumped you for being ugly, and there is no real world evidence at all that you are. But I say you are, because everyone is!" Is advice really helpful if it doesn't address the reality of a situation?

 

Yeeeeeah, that doesn't work, because I spent most of my life not being miserable, and still got no attention. However, I did spend my entire life being ugly, so...

 

V, I'm going to be overly blunt, because that seems to be the only thing you understand/ respect.

 

Imo (this is key), you are neither physically ugly nor drop dead gorgeous. You are some place in the middle. Where exactly, I don't know, I'd have to be around you in person to get a better feel for your presence .

 

With that being said, the personality you display on LS is very ugly. It's the type of personality that sucks the life out of the room. You seem to be negative about absolutely everything. Debbie Downer is what comes to mind. It seems like everything with you is a battle, a contest. If others aren't comparing you to someone else then you are doing it to yourself. You could be the most physically attractive woman on the planet, and even super shallow guys would dumb you eventually, because your personality is corrosive.

 

Dating is the same for everyone, you set limits of what you will do, what you will accept, you watch for red flags, and you roll the dice. it is a game in the sense that no outcome is guaranteed. The best you can do is play the hand you are dealt to your strengths.

[LittleTiger]

Ugh, for the last freaking time... there are people out there who don't have more good traits than bad. Sometimes, people are just kinda bad. Why is that so difficult for anyone to comprehend?? It is NOT low self-esteem to just call a spade a spade. It is NOT low self-esteem to say, well, I really don't have that many good qualities. Sometimes, it's just honest.

 

I've read that book, and yeah, not a fan, because it doesn't address that whole question of "Hmm, what if I DON'T have that many good qualities?"

 

Oh ok, I get it! (lightbulb moment )

 

So sorry V, I wasn't paying attention before.

 

What you are saying is that you are probably one of the ugliest and least desirable people on this planet and that you don't deserve to be happy or to be loved and everyone is basically just too good for you?

 

Yep, your self-esteem is just fine!!!

 

Carry on as you are, you don't need any help because you are doing great all by yourself!

[denise_xo]

 

With that being said, the personality you display on LS is very ugly. It's the type of personality that sucks the life out of the room. You seem to be negative about absolutely everything. Debbie Downer is what comes to mind. It seems like everything with you is a battle, a contest. If others aren't comparing you to someone else then you are doing it to yourself. You could be the most physically attractive woman on the planet, and even super shallow guys would dumb you eventually, because your personality is corrosive.

 

I'd like to quality this, though, by saying that the personality you are displaying here when you are not focussed on trying to convince everyone about how terrible you are is very interesting. I've enjoyed a lot of your other posts where you are just freely discussing some issue or another that's of interest to you, because you have a very sharp mind. But I agree with LR that the negativity you display is extremely draining and off putting.

[oaks]

Hi V!

 

Are you enjoying dating this guy?

[ThaWholigan]

Yeah, much better for me to continue dating guys out of my league, getting dumped over and over for hotter girls and not being able to figure out why. That will turn out MUCH better.

 

It is better to be honest about our flaws and short-comings, especially if they are the cause of our dating problems. If I am not honest, how am I going to break the pattern of dating desperate guys over and over again? Every time I try to be optimistic, I get dumped. Optimism and thinking a guy likes me (when he's just desperate or bored) has obviously NOT worked for me.

 

Boo-hoo. You're not the only girl on the planet it happens to. I doubt you will be the last. You're probably one of very few who deal with it in such a soul-destroying manner however. I'm sure many women who have been in your shoes have been able to overcome whatever is causing this to happen. History has been known to repeat itself, sometimes to show somebody something, or at the very least providing an obstacle that serves the purpose of changing that reality.

 

Women who remain somewhat optimistic will eventually reap the benefits, even if it takes a long time. Like those "nice guys" who man up in their 30s and end up happily married. Those who continue to marinade in the negativity of the bad things in their lives will continue to have bad things happen to them, their reality will never change, and the pattern will continue. Continue the way you are going and I assure you, the pattern will continue. It's probably better to take the risk of being optimistic and hoping for the best at the very least.

 

But, it's your life V. So, you are free to hold onto your delusions if you want.

 

I don't get it... people come to this board saying "I have problems with dating/attracting people" and posters ALWAYS tell them to look for their blind spots, work on their flaws, be honest about their short comings. Why in the world do I get the OPPOSITE advice?

 

You don't want advice though Verhrzn, you want us to molly-coddle you and validate your self-pity. Your biggest flaw is your inability to see the good in yourself. Ironically, it seems to be something you want to hold onto, and nothing we say can change that.

[verhrzn]

Hi V!

 

Are you enjoying dating this guy?

 

When I'm not being reminded that I am less intelligent or attractive, yes. For example, we went to the state fair this weekend, and I was enjoying myself until I realized he was getting checked out by a lot of younger girls in skimpy clothing. Or when we got into a discussion about why I hate evolutionary psychology as an academic field and he told me I hadn't done enough "academic research" to justify having such an opinion. Or when I catch a glance of his porn collection (which is amateur, because he is upstanding and doesn't like to see exploited stars) and realize the women, though "normal" are all WAY hotter (and look very different) than me. Those times.... not so fun.

 

 

Boo-hoo. You're not the only girl on the planet it happens to. I doubt you will be the last. You're probably one of very few who deal with it in such a soul-destroying manner however. I'm sure many women who have been in your shoes have been able to overcome whatever is causing this to happen. History has been known to repeat itself, sometimes to show somebody something, or at the very least providing an obstacle that serves the purpose of changing that reality.

 

Women who remain somewhat optimistic will eventually reap the benefits, even if it takes a long time. Like those "nice guys" who man up in their 30s and end up happily married. Those who continue to marinade in the negativity of the bad things in their lives will continue to have bad things happen to them, their reality will never change, and the pattern will continue. Continue the way you are going and I assure you, the pattern will continue. It's probably better to take the risk of being optimistic and hoping for the best at the very least.

 

Then why don't I ever see you giving similar evidence to the guys on this board? For the guys, it's all improve this, try this, do that. Approach girls, go to the gym, wear better clothes. The advice seems to be to DOWNplay their optimism... like don't shoot too outside your league, don't go for the hot cheerleader you know you're never gonna get, etc. Why should I be optimistic and sit here on my laurels, but men get to DO things? Why are they encouraged to be realistic, and I'm encouraged to be delusional??

 

And the definition of delusional here is: "believing something without tangible proof." Since I have hard facts about how unattractive men see me, it would be delusional to convince myself I am somehow attractive, would it not?

Edited September 6, 2012 by verhrzn

[Lonely Ronin]

Since I have hard facts about how unattractive men see me, it would be delusional to convince myself I am somehow attractive, would it not?

 

Some men, not all!

[verhrzn]

Some men, not all!

 

Never been hit on, never been approached, never been pursued. I can't even get guys to message me online. I guess a man somewhere in the middle of Africa might kind of think I'm cute, but that does no good for me here in the Midwest. By all practical measures, there is not a single man within a reasonable distance of my location who finds me attractive. Can we just acknowledge this fact??

[denise_xo]

By all practical measures, there is not a single man within a reasonable distance of my location who finds me attractive.

 

Right. You are in a relationship which is not long distance, and no one in your location finds you attractive.

 

[oaks]

When I'm not being reminded that I am less intelligent or attractive, yes.

 

Ok. Glad to hear there are some good times! I'm happy for you.

 

I snipped the other bits (but I did read it). The bad times all sound like things that happen when you're with him, or are things about him, which doesn't sound so good.

 

Funny you should mention the other girls looking at him (which probably isn't his fault, of course) as I had exactly this experience last night with the woman I dated. Hot, young guys kept looking at her! I don't think I've noticed that before with other people I've dated. But anyway, enough about me.

 

In your first post you talk about how he'll have to move, but that you'll struggle to get a new job that's as good as your current job if you move with him. (All other things aside, you could make moving 'conditional' on finding a satisfactory job... or at least do some job searches for the target area before committing to move... but I'm sure you've already thought of that.)

 

You're also a homebody, and he's an adventurer, as per your first post.

 

It sounds like you and he are not compatible for a long-term relationship. Sorry to have to tell you this.

 

So, even setting aside the "leagues" thing (I'm not dismissing it! just looking at the other things) my advice, specific to your situation, would be to not move with him when he goes (perhaps unless you can get a firm job offer of a good job before you move) but to keep dating him at the moment so that you can enjoy some more of the good times. But, also, tell him this. Tell him that you don't think that you and he are compatible in the long-term because he wants some different things and because of the way he makes you feel in the bad times, and that when he moves you probably won't and that you should part company when that happens. Take the risk that he might say "well, let's end it right now".

 

If there's some generic advice here it's this: enjoy it while it lasts, and accept that it won't.

[Lonely Ronin]

Never been hit on, never been approached, never been pursued.

This happens to lots of people.

 

I can't even get guys to message me online.

 

As others have said, online is a meat market.

 

By all practical measures, there is not a single man within a reasonable distance of my location who finds me attractive. Can we just acknowledge this fact??

 

so, you've interacted with every single guy within x miles of you and they all shot you down?

[verhrzn]

Right. You are in a relationship which is not long distance, and no one in your location finds you attractive.

 

 

Well, actually it IS long distance, of about 3 hours. And remember, guys dated me before but never found me attractive. Dating does not = they find me attractive.

 

This happens to lots of people.

 

Aaaand getting hit on happens to a lot of people. I seem to be the only woman who never gets hit on.

 

As others have said, online is a meat market.

 

But they also claim that women gets tons of messages, just be being a woman. But I haven't.

 

so, you've interacted with every single guy within x miles of you and they all shot you down?

 

If you flip a coin 100 times, and 98 times it comes up heads, you assume a probability factor. You don't need to flip it 1000 times to assume that 98% of the time it will be heads. Probability is probability. If the many, many men I have interacted with in my life haven't found me attractive (in 3 different geographic locations), why would that change?

Edited September 6, 2012 by verhrzn

[xxoo]

Well, actually it IS long distance, of about 3 hours. And remember, guys dated me before but never found me attractive. Dating does not = they find me attractive.

 

When you first posted about this renewed relationship, you described him as the one guy in the world you truly believe is into your looks (I just looked up the post on your "make up" thread, but don't know how to link it).

 

What happened between then and now?

[verhrzn]

When you first posted about this renewed relationship, you described him as the one guy in the world you truly believe is into your looks (I just looked up the post on your "make up" thread, but don't know how to link it).

 

What happened between then and now?

 

I realized he could do better. Thus this thread.

[ThaWholigan]

Then why don't I ever see you giving similar evidence to the guys on this board? For the guys, it's all improve this, try this, do that. Approach girls, go to the gym, wear better clothes. The advice seems to be to DOWNplay their optimism... like don't shoot too outside your league, don't go for the hot cheerleader you know you're never gonna get, etc. Why should I be optimistic and sit here on my laurels, but men get to DO things? Why are they encouraged to be realistic, and I'm encouraged to be delusional??

 

I have never downplayed anybody's optimism. I always tell people to be positive, I always tell the guys on here to be so. I may give them advice, but I never tell them "not to shoot outside their league" or anything like that. You are free to go through my posts and find an example, but I've never said those things.

 

I don't tell you to rest on your laurels, I tell you to be positive simply because you say that you already do a lot of things or tried to make yourself more datable and say that it comes to no avail, much in the way that Somedude says he's tried stuff and it's "impossible". To be honest, he could argue he has more to complain about than you, and that's saying something.

 

And the definition of delusional here is: "believing something without tangible proof." Since I have hard facts about how unattractive men see me, it would be delusional to convince myself I am somehow attractive, would it not?

 

You don't even have to convince yourself you are somehow attractive, you just have to stop being so f*cking miserable and look on the bright side for once.

[verhrzn]

You don't even have to convince yourself you are somehow attractive, you just have to stop being so f*cking miserable and look on the bright side for once.

 

Really, what's the bright side of being ugly and nobody finding you attractive?

[TheBigQuestion]

Really, what's the bright side of being ugly and nobody finding you attractive?

 

There IS more to life than attracting a mate, for one.

[xxoo]

I realized he could do better. Thus this thread.

 

If he is crazy about you, how could he do better?

 

If he loves you, how could he do better?

 

Why do you think he could love someone better just because she is prettier or smarter? It is hard to find someone you fall in love with. It doesn't happen just because someone is pretty, or smart. You fall in love with the essence of a person--their soul, so to speak. Their insides. The rest is shallow attraction, and can not compare to love.

[verhrzn]

If he is crazy about you, how could he do better?

 

If he loves you, how could he do better?

 

Why do you think he could love someone better just because she is prettier or smarter? It is hard to find someone you fall in love with. It doesn't happen just because someone is pretty, or smart. You fall in love with the essence of a person--their soul, so to speak. Their insides. The rest is shallow attraction, and can not compare to love.

 

Not sure if you've glanced around, but that "shallow attraction" seems to be what the majority of relationships and marriages are based on. And you're right, finding someone to fall in love with is difficult... so why in the world would he do it with me, when there are so many women out there who are exactly like me*, only smarter and prettier?

 

*Seriously, I meet them at nerd cons. They are better at being me than me. All the same hobbies and interests, just better at them, and with better careers and bodies. It's a little Body-Snatchers.

[Lonely Ronin]

I realized he could do better. Thus this thread.

 

for the love of god seek help, so you learn how to deal with your insecurities. Everyone has felt this way at one time or another, and most have learn to deal with their insecurities, and more importantly learned what to look for in someone they are interested in. By that I mean they have learned how to weed out the bad eggs in the other gender.

 

From what you have said, he has done nothing to show that he thinks you are out of your league. It's all in your head, and stuff you need to deal with.

[Lonely Ronin]

*Seriously, I meet them at nerd cons. They are better at being me than me. All the same hobbies and interests, just better at them, and with better careers and bodies. It's a little Body-Snatchers.

 

That doesn't mean they make him feel a certain way. E harmony even has commercials about this.

eHarmony Ad - Craig World Cup - YouTube

[xxoo]

Not sure if you've glanced around, but that "shallow attraction" seems to be what the majority of relationships and marriages are based on.

 

Marriages? 100% false. Post that on the marriage forum, and see what the men there say. Even the unhappily married men would disagree (most are unhappy because the wife they love has rejected them in some way).

 

And you're right, finding someone to fall in love with is difficult... so why in the world would he do it with me, when there are so many women out there who are exactly like me*, only smarter and prettier?

 

There is no one exactly like you, V. You are you. Your voice, your mannerisms, your personal scent, your laugh, your habits, your endearing traits, your annoying traits, your neuroses....these are all uniquely you. You can not be replaced by a prettier model, because you are more than a pretty face. We all are.

[verhrzn]

That doesn't mean they make him feel a certain way. E harmony even has commercials about this.

eHarmony Ad - Craig World Cup - YouTube

 

If they are better Me's than I am, why wouldn't they make him feel a certain way?? Sorry to dash all these romantic dreams, but science has demonstrated that love really isn't all that big of a mystery. There are reasons we are attracted to some people and not others, and it has nothing to do with their "soul."

 

 

There is no one exactly like you, V. You are you. Your voice, your mannerisms, your personal scent, your laugh, your habits, your endearing traits, your annoying traits, your neuroses....these are all uniquely you. You can not be replaced by a prettier model, because you are more than a pretty face. We all are.

 

My flaws and neuroses are about the only things that ARE unique about me. There are lots of girls with my "better" qualities, in bigger quantities, and with better qualities of their own. The only way I am unique is in my negatives.

[xxoo]

If we are talking science, have you read this article?

 

The MRI of Love

 

It shows how much and where his brain lights up when thinking about his average wife, in comparison to when he thinks about Angelina Jolie. Fascinating!