Dating Someone Out of Your League?

[verhrzn]

Because I know how graduate school works.

 

Universities are money making institutions just like anybody else. With a degree like History or Anthro (or counseling for that matter) that doesn't guarantee a decent paying job or even a job, they will always have available spots for those willing to pay full tuition.

 

And no I don't know anything about History or Anthro, but I know there are TONS of grad programs for both. There's gotta be hundreds for History.

 

And on the chance that Anthro is really that competitive to get into, apply to something else ... Sociology or History. I guarantee a History Grad somewhere will accept you with a 2.4 gpa and no GRE score (perhaps on a probationary basis). I bet my life on it with full confidence.

 

.... Yeah, I guess I could pay $50,000 a year to get into an online grad program degree with no guarantee of a good job. You're right, there ARE tons of those programs out there.

 

But getting into a reputable school that actually CARES about their students, and works to maintain a good academic reputation... no, those programs are actually pretty rare. A department that boosts a job placement of only a small percentage of their graduates, will not attract high academic performers. Which means no academic awards, no stellar alumni, no big-time grants... aka, all the OTHER things department make their money on.

 

Universities may be big-time money makers, but individually departments are not.... at least, again, not at reputable, academic schools. And since the department is the one that decides on letting me in, that's who matters.

 

But if you wanna stake your life on it, go ahead. Go find me an anthropology grad program at a reputable school, that would accept me with a low GPA and no GRE.

 

PS: History is actually worse in terms of requirements than Anthropology, and it would be pointless to get a grad degree in Sociology since I don't want to have a job that deals with Sociology. They are not just inter-changeable at the grad level.

[jobaba]

.... Yeah, I guess I could pay $50,000 a year to get into an online grad program degree with no guarantee of a good job. You're right, there ARE tons of those programs out there.

 

But getting into a reputable school that actually CARES about their students, and works to maintain a good academic reputation... no, those programs are actually pretty rare. A department that boosts a job placement of only a small percentage of their graduates, will not attract high academic performers. Which means no academic awards, no stellar alumni, no big-time grants... aka, all the OTHER things department make their money on.

 

Universities may be big-time money makers, but individually departments are not.... at least, again, not at reputable, academic schools. And since the department is the one that decides on letting me in, that's who matters.

 

But if you wanna stake your life on it, go ahead. Go find me an anthropology grad program at a reputable school, that would accept me with a low GPA and no GRE.

 

Yea, you're right.

 

Forget it.

 

Getting into a decent masters program in Anthropology (that well known six figure goldmine) with a B+ average is impossible.

 

Give up and spend the rest of your life working at McDonalds.

 

Good luck flipping burgers.

[LittleTiger]

So essentially, your answer is "he'll dump you anyway, just enjoy it" OR preemptively dump him. Makes sense. With any luck, he'll dump me before I make any big life changes for him, like moving or quitting my job.

 

I give up!

[verhrzn]

I give up!

 

Well, isn't that what you said??

[denise_xo]

When I first met my H, he felt he was 'out of my league' (although he used different words) in different ways. The way we solved that was by having a lot of conversations and allowing him to talk it out.

 

Just thought I'd expand a bit on this to give you some more ideas:

 

My H and I discussed this over a longer period, probably a couple of months altogether - not every day, though, but regularly over a period of time. During this time, my H was perfectly honest about how he felt about this, the ways in which he perceived his shortcomings, how he imagined that I perceived them, and their implications for our relationship. In turn, I was open about how I perceived the relationship, and what was important for me and what wasn't. We also spent time exploring the underlying assumptions behind our view points (for example, he is from a society where the man is primarily seen as a provider, so we talked about how this affected his outlook on our relationship, and how it was also possible to imagine more diverse roles for both of us, and how we could both take on 'non typical' roles as long as we both were happy with the way we organised our relationship).

 

When we first started these conversations, he was pretty convinced that there was a 'league' problem (although he used different words). So to him, this problem was 'real'. We wouldn't have solved it, I don't think, if we didn't take the time to talk this through both over time, and in depth, and in a way where he was completely honest about his insecurities. Needless to say, that was sometimes difficult for him, and sometimes I felt we were going around in circles and that I was giving the same answer several times in a row without him taking it on, but all of that was necessary for it to be put in the past. In other words, it took a bit of real 'relationship work', but it was definitely a needed and worthwhile investment at the time.

 

So, that's the kind of thing I mean when I ask 'have you discussed it with him'. Not a brief conversation where you are still left with doubts and he brushes it aside as a 'we'll deal with it when or if it happens' - but an in depth discussion where the two of you work through the issues in collaboration.

 

Have you/ would you try something like that?

[LittleTiger]

Well, isn't that what you said??

 

NO!

 

What I said was, get your self esteem out of the toilet or you are going to push away every man who shows an interest in you!

[verhrzn]

NO!

 

What I said was, get your self esteem out of the toilet or you are going to push away every man who shows an interest in you!

 

Except why do you think it's in the toilet?? Again, why do people automatically assume I have bad self-esteem if I refer to myself as inferior? There ARE better people in the world. Do I have low self-esteem if I say I'm stupid next to Stephen Hawkins? No, because he is obviously way more intelligent than me.

 

Is it ever possible, in your estimate, to be realistic about negative qualities and not have low self-esteem? What if there really is not a lot of redeemable things about you? Then what? I do not see why being honest and accepting that, hey, maybe you really DON'T have a lot going for you, is automatically the same as having low self-esteem.

[LittleTiger]

Except why do you think it's in the toilet?? Again, why do people automatically assume I have bad self-esteem if I refer to myself as inferior? There ARE better people in the world. Do I have low self-esteem if I say I'm stupid next to Stephen Hawkins? No, because he is obviously way more intelligent than me.

 

Is it ever possible, in your estimate, to be realistic about negative qualities and not have low self-esteem? What if there really is not a lot of redeemable things about you? Then what? I do not see why being honest and accepting that, hey, maybe you really DON'T have a lot going for you, is automatically the same as having low self-esteem.

 

Here is a definition of self-esteem for you:

 

"Self-esteem is the amount of respect or self-worth that a person has for himself or herself. People are often described as having either high self-esteem, meaning they think very well of themselves and their abilities, or low self-esteem, meaning they are filled with doubts and criticisms about themselves and their abilities".

 

Every word you type tells us that you have low self-esteem!

 

If you had joined LS and posted everywhere that you had x, y and z, negative traits BUT you had a, b and c, positive traits, your self-esteem could be considered 'ok'. Not necessarily high but certainly similar to most people. It would suggest that you do place a reasonable value on yourself and, at the same time, you can see there is room for improvement or even some areas where you may be lacking.

 

I could be wrong here, but I personally don't recall you ever having mentioned a single thing about yourself in a positive light. Not on this thread, nor on any of the others you have started (that I have read). When helpful LSers give a positive slant to your negativity, you shoot them down and tell them they are wrong - that you really are inferior to others, that you really are 'ugly' or 'stupid', that there really aren't a lot of redeemable things about you and that you don't have a lot going for you.

 

So to answer your question, yes, it is possible to have a realistic view of our own negative qualities and not have low-esteem BUT ONLY if you also have a realistic view of your own positive qualities at the same time!

 

If you insist on saying that you don't have any positive qualities then yes, I am sorry, but your self-esteem is in the toilet! I know it's harsh but it's true. You will never have a healthy, happy relationship until you learn to like yourself - that goes for every single person on this planet.

[Lonely Ronin]

If you insist on saying that you don't have any positive qualities then yes, I am sorry, but your self-esteem is in the toilet! I know it's harsh but it's true. You will never have a healthy, happy relationship until you learn to like yourself - that goes for every single person on this planet.

 

^^ This is the truth...

[verhrzn]

So to answer your question, yes, it is possible to have a realistic view of our own negative qualities and not have low-esteem BUT ONLY if you also have a realistic view of your own positive qualities at the same time!

 

If you insist on saying that you don't have any positive qualities then yes, I am sorry, but your self-esteem is in the toilet! I know it's harsh but it's true. You will never have a healthy, happy relationship until you learn to like yourself - that goes for every single person on this planet.

 

Again, do you not believe there are reprehensible people in the world? People who really are just junky human beings, without positive qualities? Or people who have so few or so minimal good qualities their bad qualities easily overshadow them? Or do you think we are all amazing, gorgeous, super humans?

 

If there are individuals who are amazingly remarkable, with hardly anything bad about them, then by logic, there are individuals who are amazingly UNremarkable, with very little to recommend them.

 

And I also call BS on the whole "you need to love yourself first." There are lots and lots and lots of people who do not like themselves and yet have ended up in relationships.

[TigerCub]

Again, do you not believe there are reprehensible people in the world? People who really are just junky human beings, without positive qualities? Or people who have so few or so minimal good qualities their bad qualities easily overshadow them? Or do you think we are all amazing, gorgeous, super humans?

 

If there are individuals who are amazingly remarkable, with hardly anything bad about them, then by logic, there are individuals who are amazingly UNremarkable, with very little to recommend them.

 

Wow, its so much easier to adopt a self defeating attitude than to actually work on self improvement isn't it?

 

You were born unremarkable and ugly and acquired a useless degree so why even try at all to make any improvements? There's absolutely NOTHING you can do - you were just dealt a **** hand.

 

And I also call BS on the whole "you need to love yourself first." There are lots and lots and lots of people who do not like themselves and yet have ended up in relationships.

So?

Does that mean the relationships are healthy? Does that guarantee that those relationships would last?

 

Being in a relationship doesn't mean its healthy or that the people are in love or even happy.

[LittleTiger]

Again, do you not believe there are reprehensible people in the world? People who really are just junky human beings, without positive qualities? Or people who have so few or so minimal good qualities their bad qualities easily overshadow them? Or do you think we are all amazing, gorgeous, super humans?

 

If there are individuals who are amazingly remarkable, with hardly anything bad about them, then by logic, there are individuals who are amazingly UNremarkable, with very little to recommend them.

 

And I also call BS on the whole "you need to love yourself first." There are lots and lots and lots of people who do not like themselves and yet have ended up in relationships.

 

I repeat - I give up!!!

[Ruby Slippers]

verhrzn, I share some of your fears, and I've been muddling through them all in my new relationship.

 

My boyfriend makes way more money than I do, is very good-looking whereas I think I'm basically cute (and sexy), comes from a good family whereas I come from a dysfunctional one that I'd feel embarrassed for him to meet at this point, is 5 years younger than me but much further along in his career because he hasn't flitted around like I have, and gets attention from women constantly. This guy could date anybody, and I've wondered why in the hell he's dating me. Sometimes I tell myself it's because he's inexperienced and I'm just a "practice girl". But this doesn't feel like practice. It feels like the real deal.

 

I've come very close to dumping him several times because I worry he doesn't like me as much as I like him, and fear it can never last.

 

But it just keeps getting better. My friends say I look different, happier, lighter, and I can feel it every single day.

 

We had dinner at a nice place for his birthday last night, and the waiter took our picture - it's the first picture of us ever. And though I was worried he was going to look gorgeous and I'd look cute at best, it turns out we both look great in the picture. I can see some of my little flaws - and he said the same for him - but the overall impression is two glowing, happy people who really complement each other. When he saw the picture, he said, "I look OK - but you look really good."

 

For some reason, he just sees something in me that he likes. Who am I to argue with that?

 

Please focus on enjoying this, and quieting your insecurities. Don't mess up a wonderful thing for yourself. This guy sees something in you - just let that grow and shine out. Just try it, and see how it goes. You can always bail later if you must. There is a trap door. But for now, just enjoy and really be with this great guy

[verhrzn]

 

Please focus on enjoying this, and quieting your insecurities. Don't mess up a wonderful thing for yourself. This guy sees something in you - just let that grow and shine out. Just try it, and see how it goes. You can always bail later if you must. There is a trap door. But for now, just enjoy and really be with this great guy

 

It's great that you're enjoying your new guy, but the thing is, you don't have my history. For most people, they see "hey he's dating you" as proof he likes you. But recall.... I keep getting dumped by guys I dated, because it turns out they DIDN'T like me. They were dating me for other reasons.... desperation and boredom mostly.

 

The greater the discrepancy between me and the boyfriend, the more likely this is true. This may not be true for other people.... just for me, because that seems to be my pattern.

 

I want to avoid my usual scenario as much as possible. Just "enjoying it" is asking for trouble, because that is ALWAYS when I get dumped for something better.

[january2011]

Just to clarify, verhrzn, you're saying that every time you allowed yourself to enjoy being in a relationship, every guy ended up dumping you and they all told you that they only dated you because they were desperate and bored? Is that right?

[verhrzn]

Just to clarify, verhrzn, you're saying that every time you allowed yourself to enjoy being in a relationship, every guy ended up dumping you and they all told you that they only dated you because they were desperate and bored? Is that right?

 

Pretty much. To be really nitty-gritty, they told me they'd never really been that attracted to me, but decided to try me out because I pursued them. Or because there weren't other options. Or because they felt insecure and didn't think they could get better.

 

The current guy, despite his many advantages, is VERY insecure. Women are constantly flirting with him, yet he still insists I'm better looking than him.... even though men never even give me a passing glance. His view of himself is very low, which is why I suspect he's just dating me out of desperation.

 

It's the curse of dating nerdy "nice" guys... They date me because they're just so happy SOMEone is paying attention to them, which grows their confidence, which then attracts better quality girls. They realize they can do much better than me, and dump me.

[denise_xo]

Pretty much. To be really nitty-gritty, they told me they'd never really been that attracted to me, but decided to try me out because I pursued them. Or because there weren't other options. Or because they felt insecure and didn't think they could get better.

 

The current guy, despite his many advantages, is VERY insecure. Women are constantly flirting with him, yet he still insists I'm better looking than him.... even though men never even give me a passing glance. His view of himself is very low, which is why I suspect he's just dating me out of desperation.

 

It's the curse of dating nerdy "nice" guys... They date me because they're just so happy SOMEone is paying attention to them, which grows their confidence, which then attracts better quality girls. They realize they can do much better than me, and dump me.

 

So, are you planning to properly talk to him about it?

[verhrzn]

So, are you planning to properly talk to him about it?

 

Already have, and he does the "we'll get through it, we'll cross the bridge, I think you're out of MY league" etc.

[denise_xo]

Already have, and he does the "we'll get through it, we'll cross the bridge, I think you're out of MY league" etc.

 

Are you satisfied with that answer?

Edited September 5, 2012 by denise_xo

[verhrzn]

Are you satisfied with that answer?

 

No, but I think that's because I'm not satisfied dating someone out of my league. Which is why I asked the original question.

[Ruby Slippers]

But recall.... I keep getting dumped by guys I dated, because it turns out they DIDN'T like me. They were dating me for other reasons.... desperation and boredom mostly.

Did any of those guys sincerely express that they liked you during the relationship, as this guy is doing?

[Lonely Ronin]

IMHO, it's more important that the other person thinks you are in or above their league, than how you think you stand up to them. It's just like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

I know a couple, and they both think the other is just out of their league. They might be the happiest couple I know actually.

[denise_xo]

No, but I think that's because I'm not satisfied dating someone out of my league. Which is why I asked the original question.

 

Well, as I said upthread, I think your original question can be addressed by having a proper conversation about it, as outlined above. But if you insist on you being the sole definer of the relationship and how the two of you are situated in relation to each other, then that strategy probably won't work.

[verhrzn]

Did any of those guys sincerely express that they liked you during the relationship, as this guy is doing?

 

Yes-ish. I kinda had to drag it out of them, but they claimed they did. And each of the relationships lasted over 6 months.

[january2011]

It sounds like you are dating a male version of yourself, verhrzn. Neither of you believe that you are good enough for the other. You've already assumed that he doesn't think much of you and won't stick around if he finds someone "better." Does that mean that you don't really think that much of him and won't stick around if you find someone better?

 

Seems like you've put a ticking timebomb on this relationship. Why did you enter it if you were just going to assume that he'd dump you anyway because he's "out of your league"? Why take that risk of yet another rejection and hit to your self-worth?

 

Despite what you perceive to be his insecurity, he has also tried to reassure you. Why punish him for crimes that other guys in your past committed?