StartingAgain Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 The actual tradition is from the 15th century, when the Archduke of Austria gave Mary of Burgundy the diamond ring. It's the commercialization that's recent. You are talking about an early recorded incident and about a noble. The tradition of diamond engagement rings is American and dates from the late 19 century. It didn't become very popular until the 20th century. Before modern diamond mining practices, diamonds where out of the reach of most people. lydiamarie, if you ever do a good close-up look at a good internally flawless diamond that has been cut perfectly, you'll appreciate them. But carat-for-carat, diamonds are not the most expensive stones, nor are they the most precious. Rubies are. I am wearing a beautiful 2 carat cornflower blue sapphire as I type, so I like them two. Actually, back in the 1930s and 1940's the ruby was a very popular stone for the engagement ring for obvious reasons. My mother's wedding rings had rubies, not diamonds. I like emeralds, too, but most of the best ones have been mined out and they are sooo fragile. Link to post Share on other sites
lydiamarie Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 i prefer green sapphires to any shade of blue. i love green. it's such a lovely color-it's a shame that emeralds are too soft a stone to beworn daily (like an engagement ring). that's why green sapphires are such a great alternative. plus they're cheaper. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Originally posted by StartingAgain "You are talking about an early recorded incident and about a noble. " Yeah. That's where the tradition of the diamond engagement ring comes from. The reason they dropped in price for the non-noble people is because of Rhode's discovery in Africa in the late 1800's, and the reason they soon went up in price is because of the bloodthirsty monopoly his syndicate has had on the industry ever since. Link to post Share on other sites
Author marribell Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 Thanks everyone for posting here. It helps we to govern my thoughts and to understand that in fact I don’t want the ring. It is just the instinctive preference of being like others. All the wedding procedure is some tradition that we all tend to repeat without asking much what we really want to do on that special day. Yes he is very caring and giving person. I feel bad about having that ring discussion with him. I just thought why not. I earn even more than he does (he is paying alimony). We both are high-educated professionals having good jobs. His ex never worked and was having very spoiled life. I reached all by my own in my life and have had difficult times and poor childhood. I don’t think he is going to surprise me with the ring soon, it is a very priciplale question for him. Most of my girl friends think that I need to leave him because he is cheap and greedy. I don’t think so! And now I need to run with wedding preparation …Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Most of my girl friends think that I need to leave him because he is cheap and greedy Poor you! How unpleasant to have such wretched friends. Link to post Share on other sites
Author marribell Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 Well I know where to look for an advice next time when I get an obssesive idea . Link to post Share on other sites
Jacksin Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Well said once again Moimeme Marribell, you claim to be a highly educated professional person, BUT from reading your postings I would wonder. First -- you are listening to your airhead friends and worse still taking notice of them and what they think OVER the person you are supposedly going to spend the rest of your life with. If your friends dont like it tell them to P**s Off! Second -- Tradition who cares? Go on your lovely honeymoon / holiday and enjoy yourself and stop being so petty. Jack Link to post Share on other sites
StartingAgain Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 I knew a woman once who's fiance bought her the best engagement ring he could afford. He showed it to me before he gave it too her. It wasn't shabby, but the stone was only about 0.70 carats. He was so proud of it because it was a very pretty stone with a lot of fire in it. When he gave it too her she got very angry and told him that if she wasn't important enough to him to buy her a bigger diamond than that, there was no way she would marry him; Go back a try again. All her girlfriends, she said, would laugh at her for that pathetic ring. He took the ring back and told her that maybe she should become a lesbian and find herself a nice rich woman to marry, if her girlfriends' approval was so important to her. He broke off the engagement, telling her that he couldn't see spending his life with someone so shallow. Her take on it was that he was a cheap bastard who had insulted her by presenting her with a diamond so small. Silly girl! He was a fourth year medical student at the time, who had saved for a year to be able to buy that ring. He is now a practicing neurosurgeon pulling down about $750,000 per year. Ah, the cost of being an idiot....... Link to post Share on other sites
Author marribell Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 LOL This is a bit different situation. What if he was already earning 750,000 but doesn't want to buy her one at all. I hope I am not being too defensive. Just to explain some more. The thing that I am from other country. I have a permanent residency in US. I am a computer scientist, Ph.D. One of the girls advising is a local who works with me. Here what she told me that was upsetting: you are not from states so you don’t know men here, it is traditional and very important that a man buys an engagement ring, look around do you see someone not having it? He would definitely buy it if you were local, see he bought it for his ex. I guess my worries are increased because of cultural differences. Link to post Share on other sites
InmannRoshi Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Given the divorce rate in North America, you would are wise to ignore the advice of the locals on our social norms and listen to your heart. Our social norms don't seem to be working for us too well. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 The only 'cultural' difference is between you and a bunch of seemingly shallow goofs! She's also trying to make you feel bad because you're not American, apparently. Pay no attention to people who claim to speak for everyone, and in particular this person. I'm sorry you've been misled by some mean-spirited wretch. Believe me, I've only ever encountered females who come up with these hairbrained 'rules' about engagement rings. You can bet that most men, on discussing the purchase of rings, will be saying something along the lines of "If she says she'll know how much you love her by the cost of the ring you buy - RUN LIKE HELL! " Link to post Share on other sites
StartingAgain Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 I agree with moimeme and InmannRoshi. American women don't seem to know how to be married anymore and their advice is pretty useless (well, except the smarter ones like moimeme and InmannRoshi). There is also a tradition that the bride is supposed to buy her husband to be an an engagement gift. She is also supposed to buy his wedding band. But you never see that happening anymore. The old rule of thumb that men are taught is that you should spend two month's salary on your beloved's engagement ring. That might make sense if your pulling down $30,000/per year. But what if your make $150,000/yr? The ring would run $25,000. Where I live, you wouldn't be safe wearing it on the street, since there are poeple who'd cut your hand off to get something so valuable. Ah, they are playing the old cultural card are they? I don't know what culture you are from, but in other cultures, men and women tend to be a bit more realistic about marriage and far less selfish, so maybe your intended has something to learn from you. Link to post Share on other sites
loves2much Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Listen Maribell ~ if thats really the truth of how you feel...about him loving his ex more because he got her a ring and not you ~ you should tell him that. You should tell him all of your feelings. Honesty is the best policy. Link to post Share on other sites
Samson Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 According to economists, a lasting marriage is worth $100,000. see: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=264214#post264214 It would seem to me that based on this value, buying a ring for anything more than $100,000 would place the purchaser into unrecoverable debt. Unless the insuance policy covered it. Link to post Share on other sites
StartingAgain Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Hah, Samson! I guess they are doing a per-unit cost analysis on how much it costs to have sex when you are single (average $350 according to something I read a few months back). The tongue-in-cheek article concluded that a good high-end prostitute was a cheaper and more efficient solution for the single male. You touched on the cost of divorce in your other post. That's can be substantial. Let's have some fun.... Including losses to retirement accounts and their future values, equity pay-outs, being thrown into a higher tax bracket because I'm now single (I have to pay an additional $12,000/yr.), the loss of her income extended over the next 30 years, etc. I estimate that her divorce will cost me about $1,900,000. So her OM is costing me about $633,000 per year. If the two of them have sex 1.5 times per week, that works out to $812/per roll in the hay. I sure hope he's good in bed! If he's that good, I may want some myself! LOL Link to post Share on other sites
Samson Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Now I'm wondering how you came to figure the two of them have sex 1.5 times per week, Is 0.5 times per week worth anything?! The tongue-in-cheek article concluded that a good high-end prostitute was a cheaper and more efficient solution for the single male. Probably something males only realize with 20/20 hindsight! Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 That's so ridiculous, it's not even funny., If you measure a man's devotion by the amount of money he's spending on your jewelry, you deserve what you get--and don't try to blame your shallowness on America. Link to post Share on other sites
Thinkalot Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Hello...you've received top advice already...just wanted to say, it DOES sound more like an insecurity issue, and one to which I can relate. I suffer my own share of insecurities and worries... But you have to try and remember, he loves you enough to want to marry you, and to make things special and different between the two of you! That's what counts. Another thought..if a ring matters to you as a symbolic thing, what about finding a ring which is not a diamond, and also maybe not as expensive...so you can still have your fancy honeymoon? Link to post Share on other sites
Kat Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Engagement Ring = Whatever he/you want Wedding ring = a symbol of everlasting love, i.e. a contonous band with no stops which symbolises your marriage. There is supose to be NO ROCK in the wedding band. Link to post Share on other sites
Jacksin Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 And if you are in Australia you would probably be given the ring pull from a beer can LOL, and love as much as a diamond, that you are trying to impress your friends with Jack Link to post Share on other sites
Kat Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 ring pull? That is a tad classy don't you think? I would be happy with a burger ring Link to post Share on other sites
Author marribell Posted July 18, 2004 Author Share Posted July 18, 2004 Thanks all again. I think I am over it now. You all are right my issues are so week and stupid. I am so happy about upcoming wedding and the trip. Is it true that people loose their minds from happiness? If they do then I know what was with me. Link to post Share on other sites
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