BetheButterfly Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm pretty sure many of the issues in my marriage were the result of my wife's premarital sex. I didn't realize at first. I figured I would just overlook it since we all make mistakes. But it was a huge issue. I almost felt like I was paying the price and getting lashed out at as if I were one of her exes. How are you and your wife doing? I hope well, in spite of differences. Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 How are you and your wife doing? I hope well, in spite of differences. We are separated 5 months. Divorce is likely. Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 We are separated 5 months. Divorce is likely. I'm sorry to hear that. I'll be praying for y'all. God hates divorce. However, some people should not have gotten married to each other in the first place. God forgives and is compassionate, merciful, loving, and understanding that we are human and aren't perfect. For reconciliation to happen, both people need to want to and be committed to making it happen. Do you think you or her or both of you are committed and want to stay married? Link to post Share on other sites
thatone Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 because the central premise of christianity is "do what you want but bring your guilt about it to church...along with 10%". Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Actually, what I bolded in your post is what lukewarm Christians do, as the poster Eddie pointed out earlier in the thread. Some Christians do that, pick what they want to accept as truth and discard what doesn't suit them. In my experience, most of the fervent self-described evangelical Christians who believe in proselytizing are extremely guilty of only "using" what promotes the agenda they are trying to push and refusing to consider conflicting or ameliorating parts of the Bible that don't. Also, refusal to discuss any contradictory text in the Bible, of which there is plenty. This includes an obsessive refusal to take the words of the Bible within their social context, as well as to consider language issues. I don't think that most of these people are doing this on purpose. But I do believe that God would prefer that we all use our God given powers of critical thinking. There is a great documentary about this. It's called "For the Bible Tells Me So." I highly recommend it. It's NOT "anti-Christian," for the record; it's full of stories and commentary from very deeply believing Christians (and Biblical scholars) from several different religions. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Doesn't god in your bible say that you shouldn't have sex before marriage? I absolutely agree with what your saying but yet alot of Christians act as if it is okay. Not to mention the pregnancies. Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 because the central premise of christianity is "do what you want but bring your guilt about it to church...along with 10%". Thatone, This is the first (and probably only) post of yours that I agree with. Sounds like this verse: The Lord says: "These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men." -Isaiah 29:13 Watch out, thatone, or you might just become a real Christian. Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm sorry to hear that. I'll be praying for y'all. God hates divorce. However, some people should not have gotten married to each other in the first place. God forgives and is compassionate, merciful, loving, and understanding that we are human and aren't perfect. For reconciliation to happen, both people need to want to and be committed to making it happen. Do you think you or her or both of you are committed and want to stay married? I, too, believe that a marriage can work if both people work and it and make the effort. But this only applies to situations which don't include abuse, infidelity, etc. My wife not only has assaulted me numerous times but refuses to see her own fault, even going so far as to say that I caused her to hit me. I can't accept that. Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 They pick and choose. Why do Christians feel comfortable wearing clothes made of 2 different threads? There's a huge amount of stuff in the Bible that you're not supposed to do that many Christians do. A lot of it is silly little things, mainly based around how society was kept back in the day. Additionally, interpretation varies. Not every Christian is a fundamentalist. Additionally, they can always repent. I do find it bizarre when people pick and choose to discriminate against others (homophobia etc) without following EVERY SINGLE tenet set forth themselves (yet to see a Christian who did) but I don't think it's really a big deal if someone is Christian and chooses a different interpretation. I mean, it's an old book. People read it different ways. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Zengirl, You are misapplying the levitical laws. These laws applied specifically to Israel, which was Gods chosen people who were set out to follow the laws that he gave them--as strange and arbitrary as they seem to us. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I have a general question to all on this thread who fault-find Christians: Have you ever met one Christian who is sincere and not like everybody else who you are nitpicking? I have. Maybe you should meet more Christians. They are out there, I assure you, even if they are the minority. Focus your attention on these and not the hyocrites. That is where you will find Gods representatives on earth. Cheers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Zengirl, You are misapplying the levitical laws. These laws applied specifically to Israel, which was Gods chosen people who were set out to follow the laws that he gave them--as strange and arbitrary as they seem to us. I am misapplying based on YOUR interpretation possibly. Everything is based on interpretation and how people pick and choose to view things. Link to post Share on other sites
thatone Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Thatone, This is the first (and probably only) post of yours that I agree with. Sounds like this verse: The Lord says: "These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men." -Isaiah 29:13 Watch out, thatone, or you might just become a real Christian. hah! i doubt it. don't get me wrong, i see nothing wrong with the general ideas of "do unto others" and "i am my brother's keeper" and all that. but religion based on that will always twist and corrupt it to the personal ends of the priest. my opinions on religion are pretty close to thomas jefferson's and charles darwin's. Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I have a general question to all on this thread who fault-find Christians: Have you ever met one Christian who is sincere and not like everybody else who you are nitpicking? I have. Maybe you should meet more Christians. They are out there, I assure you, even if they are the minority. Focus your attention on these and not the hyocrites. That is where you will find Gods representatives on earth. Cheers. And to answer your other question: I've certainly met many tolerable or even lovely Christians. What I notice is that they don't consider their understanding of the Bible to ever be "complete" and tolerate a variety of views, including views that are completely contrary to their own. For instance, they'll hear me say, "Jesus is a myth" and not get ruffled and understand that my view of the Bible is similar to my view of the Greek myths. They live their lives in the name of the Lord, for themselves, as best they can, without trying to apply the rules to others. So, yes, such open-minded and tolerant Christians are out there and keep their faith as a personal thing. These Christians also 'pick and choose' but they don't pretend they aren't. They know that religion is a personal and imperfect process. I know many Christians like this, and they ask more questions than they find answers and wouldn't find this question offensive. Some of them believe sex before marriage is okay in this day and age, and some do not, but they keep that belief more personal than those who wish to hinder others. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I have a general question to all on this thread who fault-find Christians: Have you ever met one Christian who is sincere and not like everybody else who you are nitpicking? I have. I have too. I do NOT fault-find Christians. I fault-find hypocrites when they show hypocrisy, whatever they call themselves. And, people who disrespect others' from a place of supposed superiority. My mother in law was married all her life to a very fundamentalist pastor who was high up in their church (Baptist). She was and always will be a fundamentalistic Bible believing Christian. She knows the Bible inside and out. So does my husband, being raised in this family. When he was growing up, a Catholic kid was not even allowed inside of their home! Anyway, as M (my mother in law, who is now 93 and still drives and volunteers in a church related mission for homeless people at night 3 X per week) has grown older and older, her mind and heart have opened and opened. She loved me so much when I got together with her son. We were living together. I am sure she was not thrilled, but I really believe that SHE has come to believe that there are very many more parts to what she sees as God's plan than she can possibly know. So, she embraced the whole situation. And we got married. We are very close friends with gay people. M certainly has no basis to be accepting of this. But she met these friends, who are exemplary human beings and full of goodness and love. She got that immediately and loves them. She probably has lots of questions inside about the gay thing - but after all is said and done, she does NOT believe that these people are under the influence of Satan, and she does believe that there are many parts of this vast universe of God's, if you believe in God, that are far beyond our understanding. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Zengirl, You are misapplying the levitical laws. These laws applied specifically to Israel, which was Gods chosen people who were set out to follow the laws that he gave them--as strange and arbitrary as they seem to us. Most of the Biblical "abominations" are believed to be based on the levitical laws by Biblical scholars, including men laying with men ... Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I am misapplying based on YOUR interpretation possibly. Everything is based on interpretation and how people pick and choose to view things. That may be. But let me ask you this... How many different ways can you interpret Jesus, after his resurrection, saying, "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see me. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." I'm only coming up with one interpretation. Haven't read any others. And this is really the central issue to Christianity, making all others insignificant. Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Mme, For the record, I've had several gay friends. I saw them as people, even if I believed--and still do--that it's a sin. Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 That may be. But let me ask you this... How many different ways can you interpret Jesus, after his resurrection, saying, "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see me. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." I'm only coming up with one interpretation. Haven't read any others. And this is really the central issue to Christianity, making all others insignificant. Not all Christians would agree that Jesus is the central issue to Christianity and refutes all of the Old Testament. Some do, certainly. Some do not. Catholics, for example, reject the notion entirely that 'faith alone' is the basis of religion. If one were to only apply that central tenant, as you speak, they'd be fairly open to homosexual marriage, sex before marriage, etc, as all of those declarations would be "insignificant." I have found that most churches do not preach you can do whatever you want so long as you believe, though. They pick and choose what you may do and what are sins and what are no longer sins. Even the 10 Commandments were in the Old Testament. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Mme, For the record, I've had several gay friends. I saw them as people, even if I believed--and still do--that it's a sin. Well, this is off topic, but I think it would be an interesting read for you; written by a Baptist pastor: What the Bible really says about homosexuality - Real Live Preacher - Open Salon Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Zengirl, I don't care what churches preach. I only care what the Bible teaches. And, to take your example of "faith alone" as being the way a person gets saved...while that is biblical, it's also biblical that "faith without works is dead". If you see someone who claims to have faith in Christ, but whose life isn't filled with fruit of the spirit, they aren't Christian plain and simple. We only wind up with these incomplete doctrines by "picking and choosing" instead of taking on the full Word of God. It won't be found in an isolated verse, but rather by viewing all scripture together. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Not all Christians would agree that Jesus is the central issue to Christianity and refutes all of the Old Testament. Some do, certainly. Some do not. Catholics, for example, reject the notion entirely that 'faith alone' is the basis of religion. If one were to only apply that central tenant, as you speak, they'd be fairly open to homosexual marriage, sex before marriage, etc, as all of those declarations would be "insignificant." I have found that most churches do not preach you can do whatever you want so long as you believe, though. They pick and choose what you may do and what are sins and what are no longer sins. Even the 10 Commandments were in the Old Testament. Again, I don't care what Christians think. They can think whatever they want. The truth is many Christians hardly even open the Bible at all. If someone can read the entire New Testament and NOT conclude that Christ is the central, be-all-end-all issue, I would seriously question their reading comprehension skills. The people who conclude otherwise are the ones who never read the Bible. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Again, I don't care what Christians think. They can think whatever they want. The truth is many Christians hardly even open the Bible at all. If someone can read the entire New Testament and NOT conclude that Christ is the central, be-all-end-all issue, I would seriously question their reading comprehension skills. The people who conclude otherwise are the ones who never read the Bible. You seem to have missed the fact that different sects have different Bibles. As to the OP, most of the Christians I know actually do try to save sex for marriage, or at least for much later than most others do. The thing is that 'sex' in itself is a fairly vague term. Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Again, I don't care what Christians think. They can think whatever they want. The truth is many Christians hardly even open the Bible at all. If someone can read the entire New Testament and NOT conclude that Christ is the central, be-all-end-all issue, I would seriously question their reading comprehension skills. The people who conclude otherwise are the ones who never read the Bible. I don't think anyone is questioning whether Jesus is central to Christianity, but that has little bearing on how Christians interpret the 'rules' from the Bible, which was what this post applies to. As to not caring what churches teach but only what the Bible teaches. . . the Bible is a book and cannot actively "teach." It can only be read and interpreted. Sure, that can be personal (you can read and interpret it without a teacher) but it cannot explain itself and what it REALLY meant and so forth and there are many interpretations, ranging from strictly literal (which no one actually LIVES by, even if they are fundamentalist and interpret it that way) to vastly metaphorical. Churches teach what they 'believe' (or want to present, if we're being cynical) the Bible teaches. Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 1. If God didn't want us to have sex, He wouldn't have made the man who made condoms. 2. If God didn't want us to have sex, he wouldn't have made things fit just right. And... 3. I think God secretly enjoys hearing people calling out His name all around the world. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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