Affair Fog- Is it real? or an excuse?

[beenburned]

sky,

 

I like your definition of the fog!

 

It described my H's personality change exactly during his cheating!

(which was totally different from his normal self)

 

I think XXOO had a good point about it being caused by the circumstances surrounding an affair.

[Owl]

Owl, you see, the "fog", is the excuse and the excuse is the "fog". It exists only if you believe it exists, that's why I used the term, "boogie man", to show that there really isn't any such thing, and that ALL references to the fog are themselves just excuses. You and others bandy around words like, "irrational, rational, short-term, long-term", as if it were some kind of mantra. You say that the "fog", doesnt' excuse an affair, then proceed to use it as an excuse or explanation. Potatoe....Potahtoe. If you believe in personal accountability then you cannot believe in the "FOG". tHE TERMS ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

 

You can understand why, after a reference to "You and others..." I would have say that I don't think I misunderstood what you wrote.

 

I'm going to stand up by my post...show me where I, or BNB, or any of others here who have said that we can agree with the term "the fog"...or anyone here on LS...has "proceed[ed] to use it as an excuse... ".

 

Back up the statement with some quotes, please.

[TurningTables]

sky,

 

I like your definition of the fog!

 

It described my H's personality change exactly during his cheating!

(which was totally different from his normal self)

 

I think XXOO had a good point about it being caused by the circumstances surrounding an affair.

 

 

Hi BB. The above bolded is interesting to me. I think that the WS have to change during an A, because if they were themselves, they would spill the beans and wouldnt have an A to begin with. So, to live with what they are doing ( and knowing it effects their entire life) they have to change.

[gaius]

I have an evil fog that follows me around and makes me do all kinds of rotten things. Don't be so quick to dismiss it.

[JustJoe]

You can understand why, after a reference to "You and others..." I would have say that I don't think I misunderstood what you wrote.

 

I'm going to stand up by my post...show me where I, or BNB, or any of others here who have said that we can agree with the term "the fog"...or anyone here on LS...has "proceed[ed] to use it as an excuse... ".

 

Back up the statement with some quotes, please.

I have explained this in the other thread and will not do so again. Owl , I have said all I'm going to say. Refute me or don't it doesn't matter either way.

[beenburned]

TT,

 

You are exactly right!

 

Because an affair requires certain characteristics that are necessary in order to keep it hidden from the BS.(lying, gaslighting, time away, etc)

 

As far as the fog, it is the same as infatuation/lust found in all beginning relationships. You obsess about the person and love everything about them, simply because you haven't had enough time together to see their faults.

[anne1707]

As far as the fog, it is the same as infatuation/lust found in all beginning relationships. You obsess about the person and love everything about them, simply because you haven't had enough time together to see their faults.

 

In so many ways this is it. However the time period is extended because you are only snatching moments and not getting to see each other in day to day real life. I know I said it in IC and I think I have said it on here. In some ways I equate my 3 year affair to 3 months of dating.

 

It was never real. There was no dealing with his family/my family, bills, shopping for food, cleaning the toilet, really looking after someone when they are being sick,... It's all the gloss you get in a normal dating relationship at the start but instead it can go on for years.

[Got it]

In so many ways this is it. However the time period is extended because you are only snatching moments and not getting to see each other in day to day real life. I know I said it in IC and I think I have said it on here. In some ways I equate my 3 year affair to 3 months of dating.

 

It was never real. There was no dealing with his family/my family, bills, shopping for food, cleaning the toilet, really looking after someone when they are being sick,... It's all the gloss you get in a normal dating relationship at the start but instead it can go on for years.

 

Um when did cleaning toilets become a litmus test for a relationship? Since I have cleaners does that mean I still don't know him well enough?

[East7]

In so many ways this is it. However the time period is extended because you are only snatching moments and not getting to see each other in day to day real life. I know I said it in IC and I think I have said it on here. In some ways I equate my 3 year affair to 3 months of dating.

 

Anne, with all the respect, I think your answer is a little biased. So you claim that in 3 years you didn't know your xOM enough to have a clear judgement if he was relationship material or knowing his personality ?

 

It was never real. There was no dealing with his family/my family, bills, shopping for food, cleaning the toilet, really looking after someone when they are being sick,... It's all the gloss you get in a normal dating relationship at the start but instead it can go on for years.

 

Interesting because it reminds me when I was talking about marriage with xMW and I suggested her to divorce first and then we date like normal people for a while before deciding what to do next. She said "I don't need to date you, I know you enough.."

 

When you are in a normal relationship dating stage, you don't ask yourself if you'd still love the person when you'll have to go grocery shopping together or cleaning toilets. Why it should be different with affairs ?

Edited May 27, 2012 by East7

[East7]

Back to the topic:

 

IMO, the fog is a subjective way to either despise or excuse an affair.

 

I have never heard "fog" for single people being in love because no one would disapprove that, while the As are morally wrong so it is like looking at the same object from two different perspectives.

 

How many people are sentimentally abused, mislead by the other partner and still doing crazy things for them, moving abroad, quitting jobs, putting in danger their career, stability etc etc..? No one blames them to be in "fog". I don't see any difference with the "Affair fog". The affairs are "sentimental frauds", the same way that someone single misleads you for whatever reason : sex, loneliness, money etc..Someone who is keeping their spouse and still having a relationship with you doesn't make any difference.

 

When it comes to "my fog" as fOM, I don't think it was related to the fact that it was an A, rather than to the fact that I was running after the carrot of being with xMW happily ever after and unable to open my eyes and see the reality. I feel 100% responsible for that, I don't blame my xMW in any way or form. My "fog" was running after a "happy ending" that I refused to see as impossible.

 

On the other hand I think that the majority of xMW use it:

- Towards the others (mainly to BS) as a justification.

- Towards themselves in order to feel less guilty: "I wasn't myself, xOM and I would have never matched anyway..etc"

 

2, 3...4 years-affairs, are they a "fog" ???

[anne1707]

Anne, with all the respect, I think your answer is a little biased. So you claim that in 3 years you didn't know your xOM enough to have a clear judgement if he was relationship material or knowing his personality ?

 

Just as biased as you and everyone else who posts here. We all post based on our experiences/understanding/knowledge.

 

Clear judgement? That's the whole point of this thread. I could not see the exOM for what he really was. It was only after the affair that I could see how flawed he was and how he had a string of short lived marriages/serious relationships which all ended through no fault of his own according to him.

 

 

Interesting because it reminds me when I was talking about marriage with xMW and I suggested her to divorce first and then we date like normal people for a while before deciding what to do next. She said "I don't need to date you, I know you enough.."

 

Sorry but that sounds to me like cake eating talk from her - she wanted to keep you sweet and sound all positive. She needed a back-up plan in case her husband found out and kicked her out. (one interpretation but I could be wrong).

 

When you are in a normal relationship dating stage, you don't ask yourself if you'd still love the person when you'll have to go grocery shopping together or cleaning toilets. Why it should be different with affairs ?

 

Of course you don't ask those questions. The point I was making was that the affair relationship does not always get the chance to evolve the way a "normal relationship" does where you start doing just ordinary day to day routine stuff - the boring stuff. Instead you stay in that heightened state which is typical in the early months of any new relationship however it goes on for much longer.

[anne1707]

On the other hand I think that the majority of xMW use it:

- Towards the others (mainly to BS) as a justification.

- Towards themselves in order to feel less guilty: "I wasn't myself, xOM and I would have never matched anyway..etc"

 

2, 3...4 years-affairs, are they a "fog" ???

 

Guess I'm in the minority then. I have never used it as justification or as a means of assuaging my guilt. It actually increased my disappointment in myself because I did not let myself see the consequences of my actions and consider others as I should have done. It has also led me to feel disgust at myself for even the choice of exOM - I really did not see how much of an **** he was until after the affair.

[East7]

It has also led me to feel disgust at myself for even the choice of exOM - I really did not see how much of an **** he was until after the affair.

 

So it took you 3 years to figure it out ? wow..ok

Edited May 27, 2012 by East7

[anne1707]

So it took you 3 years to figure it out ? wow..ok

 

Your point is????

[East7]

Your point is????

 

Well, 1st I doubt the "fog" theory may considered valid for 3 years relationships, even if affairs..2nd, I can't have an opinion about your xOM, maybe he was a total douche, but I find it harsh to despise someone with whom you shared intimacy during 3 years. It sums up to despising yourself..Would you like your xOM considers you with the same disgust? It was your choice and his, no one put a gun on your head to choose xOM.

 

You can't just say, Sorry guys I was "foggy" for 3 years; now I'm ok and xOM was a douche. You shouldn't talk about him if you consider yourself wrong in first place.

 

I am glad my xMW never despised or looked down at me. I reciprocated. We were two people making a poor choice, it doesn't mean we need to despise each-other. She made her choice, period, and I don't need to hate or despise her.

[anne1707]

It was your choice and his, no one put a gun on your head to choose xOM.

 

My point exactly

 

You can't just say, Sorry guys I was "foggy" for 3 years; now I'm ok and xOM was a douche. You shouldn't talk about him if you consider yourself wrong in first place.

 

Show me where I have tried to offset my responsibility by blaing it on fog?

 

Also I don't understand why I cannot talk of my affair experience. Just because it does not fit in with your experience does not make it any less relevant.

 

I am glad my xMW never despised or looked down at me. I reciprocated. We were two people making a poor choice, it doesn't mean we need to despise each-other. She made her choice, period, and I don't need to hate or despise her.

 

You've jumped to conclusions. I don't despise the exOM. I may think he's a douche but he means nothing to me now.

[Got it]

Every relationship is what the parties make of it. Regardless of marital status how well you know each other is based on time, communication, experience, and openness.

 

I found that dMM has stayed pretty true to form from EMR, S/D, to now. I knew to watch actions along with words and he has stayed consistent.

[Benedictatu]

I think it is real she bewitched him and stole him from me and she keeps him under her spell so he can't return to me even though he loves me.