Affair Fog- Is it real? or an excuse?

[xxoo]

It's also an easy phrase for a counselor, "look, see Mr Cheater was in a fog. All better". Total crap.

 

No counselor says that

 

There would still be all the work of figuring out how the boundaries fell low enough for a romantic spark to turn into a blaze. That can happen to anyone, if they don't know how to actively protect the marriage.

[bentnotbroken]

I, too, agree that the "fog" is a very easy excuse, it's a free "get out of jail card".

 

It makes it easier for the BS to swallow that their spouse had an affair, if they can blame it on "the fog". Then they don't have to accept, simply, that their spouse, willfully chose,, over and over, to deceive and betray them. Blame it on the "fog".

 

In my 20 month affair, I know my xMM thought a lot of getting us together, from inviting me on trips, to planning weeks in advance when he would leave his office early so we could spend more time together. He extended trips we had already planned, he invited me to events, ... He also did a lot of soul searching, writing and journaling throughout the process even to the extent that he made a list of pros and cons regarding me v. his wife. He was NOT in a"fog". It was all deliberate. Every step of the way.

 

Did we feel giddy, happy to be together, did we count down the days until we saw each other? Yep, we sure did because we were falling in love. It's the same whenever you fall in love. All the same feelings, chemicals are released. Your brain chemicals don't know "who" you're falling in love with, your brain chemicals know you're falling in love. Period.

 

It's also an easy phrase for a counselor, "look, see Mr Cheater was in a fog. All better". Total crap.

 

And the cheaters use it to to explain away their behavior.

 

To be in an affair, is a willful choice over and over and over. And anybody that doesn't accept that cheating behavior for what it really is, is just fooling themselves. It all comes down to truth. Anyone refusing to accept the real truth and blindly excusing the behavior as a "fog" is just kidding themselves. I suspect in many cases, once the "fog routine" is bought by the BS, the cheater must think, "wow, that was easy". Completely dysfunctional. Now it's all better because my spouse was really not in control, he was taken over by "the fog". Laughable.

 

People will go through a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid reality. It's quite sad.

 

Mr. Messy is a douche and I am well aware he had an affair and I didn't swallow anything he said as an excuse (same as any other person cheating) and yes, the "fog" endorphins are well documented. The cheater is as much in control as the AP.....yet they are in love and in too deep to back out...endorphins.

[bentnotbroken]

No counselor says that

 

There would still be all the work of figuring out how the boundaries fell low enough for a romantic spark to turn into a blaze. That can happen to anyone, if they don't know how to actively protect the marriage.

 

 

Most counselors explain the physical reactions to the body during an affair, or suicidal thoughts or anything where the brain typically does not respond in the way that is expected for normal functions. The brain is also bathed during the intense hormones of pregnancy and menopause, causing certain reactions that would not normally happen. Each person is still responsible for their actions during those times but certain changes in the brain can constitute a fog.

 

It seems that just as the BS might (loosely might) use the fog as an excuse to stay with a cheating spouse, the AP might need to believe there is no "fog" exists so that the WS choices in being with them is completely clear headed and they never back out of the choice to continue...just a thought.

[Bellechica]

Mr. Messy is a douche and I am well aware he had an affair and I didn't swallow anything he said as an excuse (same as any other person cheating) and yes, the "fog" endorphins are well documented. The cheater is as much in control as the AP.....yet they are in love and in too deep to back out...endorphins.

 

Some of us do get out and never want to experience the "fog" again.

[MissBee]

Here's my perspective...

 

"Fog" describes the inability to think long term, to think rationally about the picture overall.

 

It doesn't in any way mitigate responsibilities for the deliberate choices and actions there were made during the affair.

 

I agree that affair partner's are very focused on making short term decisions to continue and maintain the affair...but their ability think clearly about long term repercussions and work through all of that is often severly compromised by their short term focus on the affair itself.

 

As I've said on another thread...I can agree to disagree on this. Not everyone has to see it my way. Personally, I've seen enough to convince me that it's as "real" as the "fog of war". It's very, very similar in fact.

 

I see it in the same way. It is in no way a get out of jail free card. I often joke with my friends that in my relationship with my ex (non-A) I was drunk the entire time. Reason being, is that some of the decisions I made ( and almost made) were not me, not things I actually wanted genuinely, didn't think through thoroughly, but because I was so caught up with him and my feelings and was in a euphoric high, I was doing all kinds of things. Upon breaking up I was in an even bigger fog.... Now, I look back and think what on earth?!

 

I think the metaphor of being drunk is appropriate and a synonym for fog. When you're drunk your inhibitions are lower, you may say and do things that if completely sober you'd not. Yet, when drunk, you are still responsible for your actions. You can't say "the alcohol made me do it", it may contribute to you choosing to do things you'd otherwise not do, but you haven't completely taken leave of your senses....your senses are just obscured by it. I say and do things I'd not normally say or do when I've had a few, yet I can still make other choices and I'm not blacked out nor can I blame alcohol. But it is indeed real that were it not for being in that state of mind, I'd probably not do these things.

Edited May 24, 2012 by MissBee

[MissBee]

Most counselors explain the physical reactions to the body during an affair, or suicidal thoughts or anything where the brain typically does not respond in the way that is expected for normal functions. The brain is also bathed during the intense hormones of pregnancy and menopause, causing certain reactions that would not normally happen. Each person is still responsible for their actions during those times but certain changes in the brain can constitute a fog.

It seems that just as the BS might (loosely might) use the fog as an excuse to stay with a cheating spouse, the AP might need to believe there is no "fog" exists so that the WS choices in being with them is completely clear headed and they never back out of the choice to continue...just a thought.

 

This is an excellent point and much discussion has been given here as to why a BS would believe this, i.e. to ignore reality. But in the same vein, someone in an A who refuses to believe it could be avoiding reality just as much; as if a fog does exist, then their relationship could be one of those fueled by impaired judgment versus one built on solid ground. So both people have a stake [albeit different ones] in believing or not believing.

Edited May 24, 2012 by MissBee

[SoMovinOn]

Doesn't matter what "name" you call it...if you find the term "fog" inappropriate, term it " temporary lack of mental clarity due to overwhelming emotional conflict" instead. It's equally as accurate.

 

By any name, what value does it have? One can be caught up similarly in other emotions, such as anger, yet, the expectation is still that once chooses to act, or not act, on those emotions. The only value I see in it is as a crutch or excuse.

[Owl]

It has no value...anymore than calling a coin worth 10 cents a dime, or the object between your shoe and your foot a sock.

 

It just describes the mental state of someone in the emotional morass of an affair. Nothing more than that.

[JustJoe]

For people who try to use 'the fog' to rationalize/justify/avoid responsibility for their actions during an affair...I would totally agree with you.

 

As a lot of us have stated...it doesn't excuse their actions nor give them a "bye" for their affair nor what they did/said during it.

 

It simply describes their confusion and mental chaos while they were in the affair...without excusing their actions or behavior.

Owl, you see, the "fog", is the excuse and the excuse is the "fog". It exists only if you believe it exists, that's why I used the term, "boogie man", to show that there really isn't any such thing, and that ALL references to the fog are themselves just excuses. You and others bandy around words like, "irrational, rational, short-term, long-term", as if it were some kind of mantra. You say that the "fog", doesnt' excuse an affair, then proceed to use it as an excuse or explanation. Potatoe....Potahtoe. If you believe in personal accountability then you cannot believe in the "FOG". tHE TERMS ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

[JustJoe]

Owl, I enjoy friendly debate and think that this thread shows that while we can disagree, we can also have a high degree of respect for each other as posters. "We", meaning, ALL of us. I've had my say, so I can go someplace else now.

Edited May 24, 2012 by JustJoe

[Got it]

But when those heady emotions pass, and you have that "what the heck was I thinking?" feeling....that's the fog.

 

That is not exclusive to affairs, nor is it universal among affairs. But it does seem common enough with affairs to acknowledge it.

 

Since, for me, it was identical to all other beginning of relationships and I would constitute as plain old lust. I can't say it was fog. One that is not allowing me to have control over myself in any degree which I don't agree with. I consciously and with full control made every decision in that process and fully own every step of the way. I was in lust and "in like" just like prior boyfriends including the beginning courtship with my ex husband.

[seibert253]

You can call it whatever you wish, but I can tell you that whatever it is, it causes the WS to act irrationally and out of character. I prefer to characterize it as becoming infected with a virus. Here's my example:

 

I can tell you that exact date my FWW became "infected", "foggy", whatever you care to call it. This also coensides with when her A started.

Her whole character toward me, our son, and our M changed. From being loving, caring, and devoted, to being angry, confrontational, and self-centered. It became all about her.

Nothing my son or I did was right. I knew something was wrong. Tried to discuss it with her, but all it lead to were fights and arguements.

I began to notice, "missing time" in her schedule. She could not, or most of the time would not, account for this. All I could think was who has my FWW become? Found out about the A, then came Dday. This was when the "foggyness" peaked. Not a rational thought existed in her mind and no one could convince her she was wrong.

 

I can also tell you the exact date when the "virus" left, or the "fog" lifted. In an instant she came back to being her "old self".

 

In later discussions, she spoke of when she was in "the fog", she knew her behaviors were wrong, and were destroying everything she built, but at that time she didn't care. All she cared about was her "happiness".

 

For me, I've seen the "fog" firsthand and lived through it.

[skywriter]

Owl wrote. "And you don't have to call it "fog"...but it's very, very evident (to me at least) that the vast majority of folks who "find" themselves in an affair most certainly have "impaired judgement".

 

 

I would agree with this, from my own experience, being involved in an A.

 

However, it doesn't excuse my choices and NC does give one time to reflect and reevaluate ones and feelings.

[Spark1111]

You can call it whatever you wish, but I can tell you that whatever it is, it causes the WS to act irrationally and out of character. I prefer to characterize it as becoming infected with a virus. Here's my example:

 

I can tell you that exact date my FWW became "infected", "foggy", whatever you care to call it. This also coensides with when her A started.

Her whole character toward me, our son, and our M changed. From being loving, caring, and devoted, to being angry, confrontational, and self-centered. It became all about her.

Nothing my son or I did was right. I knew something was wrong. Tried to discuss it with her, but all it lead to were fights and arguements.

I began to notice, "missing time" in her schedule. She could not, or most of the time would not, account for this. All I could think was who has my FWW become? Found out about the A, then came Dday. This was when the "foggyness" peaked. Not a rational thought existed in her mind and no one could convince her she was wrong.

 

I can also tell you the exact date when the "virus" left, or the "fog" lifted. In an instant she came back to being her "old self".

 

In later discussions, she spoke of when she was in "the fog", she knew her behaviors were wrong, and were destroying everything she built, but at that time she didn't care. All she cared about was her "happiness".

 

For me, I've seen the "fog" firsthand and lived through it.

 

Me too, Seibert! Did we have the same affair scenario in different towns?

 

My H didn't use fog as an excuse. I learned of it as I researched my PH.D in affairology.

 

Again, everyone assumes BSs will automatically take back a cheating spouse and look for excuses (fog) to let them be less accountable.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth. I was divorcing him even as he begged to reconcile.

 

Fog: Thinking his children and her child would just be one big happy family once he FINALLY left us; thinking his children would like and admire her immediately. ( I had to talk them out of giving her a piece of their minds on dday.)

 

Introducing her to his family at our FIL's funeral (She was a co-worker) They were later APPALLED she had come uninvited and was even there, or that they had been introduced to her. Worse? I tried to say hello to her (didn't yet know she was the OW) and she snubbed me. I thought she was deaf.

 

I had to talk family out of giving her a peice of their minds on that one.

 

Fog:

 

Me: Why was she at dad's funeral?

 

Him: I didn't invite her. What? Friends can't come to show support?

 

Me: Uh, no, Not "friends" you've been f#$*n for a year and a half. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?:lmao:

 

I got a million of them.

[Got it]

i thought about this some more, and I think perhaps that "the fog" s, as it something that happens in affairs, is very different than the feelings one gets at the start of other relationships.

 

i say this because so often you hear of ( and I have personally experienced) the 180 degree change in personality that often occurs when a married person is cheating. You don't see this in other relationships. Most people who start other relationships don't suddenly start being an @ss to others, don't start being secretive and hiding things, don't start being short tempered with their kids. They don't engage in behaior that could cost them heir marriage, their job, the respect of their family, etc.

 

But married people in affairs of often risk all of these things...

 

It has been often put forth that affairs are somehow "different" than other relationships ( "how can you know what one is like if you haven't been in one"?), and perhaps this applies to "the fog" as well...

 

not every married person is like this, but more than a few are, and perhaps acknowledging that it can happen is a good starting point in recovery, whether the marriage reconciles, splits up, or if the affair partners end up together. what is it in the wayward spouses personality that would cause them to allow their feelings to totally take over like that...if it happened once, it could happen again.

 

For myself, as a MOW, I can say there was no difference. There are many others on this thread who say similar. Oddly it seems to be prodominately BS who are arguing for it.

 

My personality didn't change, my priorities did. I saw similar behavior in myself when I got heavily into a hobby. In a moment, life can change your focus and your priorities and while this may be shocking to those around you it happens in many cases. Look at the heart attack survivors who do a 180, divorce, pick up crazy hobbies, etc.

 

It is a reshifting of priorities based on a sudden more compelling desire. Marital status has nothing to do with this phenomenon.

[xxoo]

i thought about this some more, and I think perhaps that "the fog" s, as it something that happens in affairs, is very different than the feelings one gets at the start of other relationships.

 

i say this because so often you hear of ( and I have personally experienced) the 180 degree change in personality that often occurs when a married person is cheating. You don't see this in other relationships. Most people who start other relationships don't suddenly start being an @ss to others, don't start being secretive and hiding things, don't start being short tempered with their kids. They don't engage in behaior that could cost them heir marriage, their job, the respect of their family, etc.

 

Probably because, in most non-affair situations, nothing is getting in the way of the romance.

 

In an affair situation, the romance is frustrated, at least partially.

 

A similarly frustrated romance in a non-affair situation (for example: a forbidden teen love) might have similar characteristics.

 

But is that a difference in the heady emotions, or a difference in the circumstances?

[Spark1111]

For myself, as a MOW, I can say there was no difference. There are many others on this thread who say similar. Oddly it seems to be prodominately BS who are arguing for it.

 

My personality didn't change, my priorities did. I saw similar behavior in myself when I got heavily into a hobby. In a moment, life can change your focus and your priorities and while this may be shocking to those around you it happens in many cases. Look at the heart attack survivors who do a 180, divorce, pick up crazy hobbies, etc.

 

It is a reshifting of priorities based on a sudden more compelling desire. Marital status has nothing to do with this phenomenon.

 

I don't think a change or focus or priorities would even begin to explain what I experienced as my H regained some rationality (and a HUGE amount of embarrasment and shame post DDAY.)

 

I have experienced a change of priorities, a new hobby, hours upon hours at a computer screen writing an article. But I never forgot I was married or had children or self-deluded myself to the point that no one would be hurt by my actions.

 

Is it possible not all experience it?

[bentnotbroken]

For myself, as a MOW, I can say there was no difference. There are many others on this thread who say similar. Oddly it seems to be prodominately BS who are arguing for it.

 

My personality didn't change, my priorities did. I saw similar behavior in myself when I got heavily into a hobby. In a moment, life can change your focus and your priorities and while this may be shocking to those around you it happens in many cases. Look at the heart attack survivors who do a 180, divorce, pick up crazy hobbies, etc.

 

It is a reshifting of priorities based on a sudden more compelling desire. Marital status has nothing to do with this phenomenon.

 

 

Oddly seems the be predominatley WS who argue against it...go figure.

[xxoo]

not sure i know the answer to that one...

 

but you do make a good point...

 

perhaps logic goes out the window...

 

but is it the "frustratedness" (?) part of what makes the emotions so "heady" ? I remember being that age and sometimes it seemed that the more something was off limits, the more attractive it seemed...could thi also happen in a wayward spouse?

 

Think back to when you first fell head over heels with your H....not necessarily in love, but that giddy, heady early stage. I can't imagine an affair being more heady

 

If someone had forbidden us from touching each other, I would have found a way. And I would have had strong negative feelings toward the one doing the "forbidding".

 

And we have a lasting, loving marriage

 

Now, if he'd been a man of low character, and my parents saw that and tried to forbid, I could very well have destroyed my relationship with my parents through lies to be with him, and later (when the heady stage past, and I saw the relationship for what it is) would have regretted it.

 

It is the nature of the early stages of a new romance. Many of us can not accurately assess a new relationship until that stage has passed.

[bentnotbroken]

By any name, what value does it have? One can be caught up similarly in other emotions, such as anger, yet, the expectation is still that once chooses to act, or not act, on those emotions. The only value I see in it is as a crutch or excuse.

 

 

This is true. It is usually called crime of passion where infidelity is concerned.

[Owl]

Owl, you see, the "fog", is the excuse and the excuse is the "fog". It exists only if you believe it exists, that's why I used the term, "boogie man", to show that there really isn't any such thing, and that ALL references to the fog are themselves just excuses. You and others bandy around words like, "irrational, rational, short-term, long-term", as if it were some kind of mantra. You say that the "fog", doesnt' excuse an affair, then proceed to use it as an excuse or explanation. Potatoe....Potahtoe. If you believe in personal accountability then you cannot believe in the "FOG". tHE TERMS ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

 

When have I ever "proceeded to use it as an excuse"???

 

Give me a quote.

 

I seem to recall repeatedly pointing out that it DOESN'T excuse anything...that in fact it in no way alleviates the responsibility for actions taken during the affair. You might try reading my posts a little closer if you're going to try to call me out.

 

SHOW me where I've used it as an excuse to for someone not to be held responsible.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Owl

[bentnotbroken]

Some of us do get out and never want to experience the "fog" again.

 

 

Yes, I know. And I believe some people will never be there again.

[JustJoe]

When have I ever "proceeded to use it as an excuse"???

 

Give me a quote.

 

I seem to recall repeatedly pointing out that it DOESN'T excuse anything...that in fact it in no way alleviates the responsibility for actions taken during the affair. You might try reading my posts a little closer if you're going to try to call me out.

 

SHOW me where I've used it as an excuse to for someone not to be held responsible.

Sorry , Owl. I. of course, meant the generic, inclusive "you", not you personally. My bad.

[skylarblue]

I agree with those that the “fog” exists, but that it doesn’t make it an excuse. However, I believe it may make it a reason in few cases. I think the term “fog” is used too generally and is often used as excuse by BS/WS or as an understanding of the actions of the WS. There is a difference between being in a fog and making deliberate decisions because of infatuation, enamor, what have you. I think the fog is very rare. IMO the fog is “an extreme impaired judgment characterized by extreme irrational, impulsive, compulsive behaviors/actions performed without deliberate or premeditated thought to/of their actions/behaviors, the BS, and consequences”. I think it also results in a very short-term secrecy of the A because of the extreme nature of the fog.

[MissBee]

Me too, Seibert! Did we have the same affair scenario in different towns?

 

My H didn't use fog as an excuse. I learned of it as I researched my PH.D in affairology.

 

Again, everyone assumes BSs will automatically take back a cheating spouse and look for excuses (fog) to let them be less accountable.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth. I was divorcing him even as he begged to reconcile.

 

Fog: Thinking his children and her child would just be one big happy family once he FINALLY left us; thinking his children would like and admire her immediately. ( I had to talk them out of giving her a piece of their minds on dday.)

 

Introducing her to his family at our FIL's funeral (She was a co-worker) They were later APPALLED she had come uninvited and was even there, or that they had been introduced to her. Worse? I tried to say hello to her (didn't yet know she was the OW) and she snubbed me. I thought she was deaf.

 

I had to talk family out of giving her a peice of their minds on that one.

 

Fog:

 

Me: Why was she at dad's funeral?

 

Him: I didn't invite her. What? Friends can't come to show support?

 

Me: Uh, no, Not "friends" you've been f#$*n for a year and a half. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?:lmao:

 

I got a million of them.

 

This is insane