The unknown role the betrayed spouse plays in the"affair"!

[allgoodhere]

Trying to figure out what right you have to presume you know anything about the relationship between MM and OW. I am the other woman. I love my relationship, and that is exactly what it is. It isn't all rainbows and unicorns. It is a parallel relationship that runs alongside the marriage, whether it's happy or not. All relationships are different. My MM is not happy in his relationship and is making the necessary steps it takes to leave. But, if he didn't leave, I would stay with him because I love him. We have something that we can't get from another partner. If your marriage is unhappy and your husband had an affair, it's on you and him. But I will tell you, as the OW, we have issues, just like a regular relationship. You are mad the horns are on your head, but you want everyone to see a halo where there is none.

[bentnotbroken]

Trying to figure out what right you have to presume you know anything about the relationship between MM and OW. I am the other woman. I love my relationship, and that is exactly what it is. It isn't all rainbows and unicorns. It is a parallel relationship that runs alongside the marriage, whether it's happy or not. All relationships are different. My MM is not happy in his relationship and is making the necessary steps it takes to leave. But, if he didn't leave, I would stay with him because I love him. We have something that we can't get from another partner. If your marriage is unhappy and your husband had an affair, it's on you and him. But I will tell you, as the OW, we have issues, just like a regular relationship. You are mad the horns are on your head, but you want everyone to see a halo where there is none.

 

 

Who is wearing a halo? I don't know of any human that does. With that said, there is one thing that isn't presumed. A WS is married and the AP is just that an AP until the cheating spouse grows a backbone and moves on or stops the behavior.

[Furious]

Trying to figure out what right you have to presume you know anything about the relationship between MM and OW. I am the other woman. I love my relationship, and that is exactly what it is. It isn't all rainbows and unicorns. It is a parallel relationship that runs alongside the marriage, whether it's happy or not. All relationships are different. My MM is not happy in his relationship and is making the necessary steps it takes to leave. But, if he didn't leave, I would stay with him because I love him. We have something that we can't get from another partner. If your marriage is unhappy and your husband had an affair, it's on you and him. But I will tell you, as the OW, we have issues, just like a regular relationship. You are mad the horns are on your head, but you want everyone to see a halo where there is none.

 

 

I think you're talking to the wrong person here. I think you should let your MM's wife know how happy you are to be his other woman. And if anyone is wearing I halo, I think it is his wife.

[jlola]

That is bogus. If you are knowingly screwing a married man, it's on you, sister. NOT the betrayed spouse. And if it's such a great relationship, why hide it?

 

You know why he is hiding it. It is because he loves his kids so much and does not want to only see them part-time. Doesn't matter he spends enough time away from them with his OW. That doesn't count.

 

Or his finances will be ruined cause they have to be split i half! Doesn't matter that OW has a J-O-B and they can have 2 incomes in order to alleviate financial woes. And if it was "true love" money and "things should not matter.

 

or perhaps the evil wife will not let him see the kids. Does not matter no court will allow her to keep kids away, unless he is an unfit parent.

 

Or is it perhaps because the BS they do not love, will be so distraught and commit suicide.

 

ruth is, there are divorces happening every single day! Sometimes for things simply shallow reason that he "snores" or her housekeeoing is horrible. These people have the nerve to divorce. But two star crossed loves in affairs are in hiding because selfish cake eater does not want any consequences for his actions if he can help it.

 

Did I leave any excuses out? lived it. My cheating narcissist father always made it seem he was making such a huge sacrifice by sticking around. Unlike those "other men". I am Sure, he used us as an excuse to have affairs but not leave the marriage. All I can say is I was both disgusted with him and my mother for thinking they were doing the right thing by allowing us to live this toxicity. My father hadno love for us. Only for his ego and his pleasures,

 

For anyone who thinks kids do not know, WE FEEL THE VIBES in the house. My mother never told us. her big mouth sister did as we got older. But I then could look back on times my mother seemed so sad, or my father's anger got worse or he was giddily happy while my mother seemed stressed and know his affairs tainted all of us!

[MissBee]

If there is such a thing as an act of nobility in cheating, I think with regards to my exAP, he did not try to put the blame on anyone else for his behavior. I expected him to....I assumed that he must be cheating because his relationship ws bad and all this other stuff, but when I asked, he nonchalantly explained that nope, their relationship is fine, it has it's ups and downs, he loves her, he just loves me too. It wasn't quite as romantic and we didn't have the us against the world deal, because he made it clear that there was no villain, he just wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

 

I therefore could not hate her or use her as a foil to myself. We both had to stand there and admit that we were both doing it because we wanted to. Not because anyone else was forcing us into that position. In that regard, he was "truthful" and presented the reality of many As....

 

I think a lot of As are exactly like this, except the villain rhetoric is tossed on top to propel it along, then sometimes when that gets blown away, it is discovered that there is no evil villain BS at all. In his case, he decided to not bother with all that extra theatrics of blaming her and making me feel bad for him etc. It still was not a respectable situation, but I suppose he didn't add insult to injury by dragging her name through the mud so that he could do what he wanted to do.

 

I guess everyone is different, because for me, I always wonder at the stories of the MM with some horrible wife who controls him, who he is apparently under her thumb, who does this that and the third bad thing to him etc. I have to admit that for me, if a man uses that card to get with me, I would not be attracted to him. I can't date a man I feel bad for. I can't date a man who is being controlled by his wife. I suppose if my AP had tried that angle I would have simply felt bad for him, but any attraction would dry up If your wife is controlling you and you can't get away, I mean I would just feel like how can I help you? I can't. I do not mean this to at all belittle abusive situations where women abuse men, certainly not. I am just saying that if one is in an abusive situation or otherwise unhealthy setup, my reaction is NOT to date you. That isn't helping your life. My response would be to help you get your strength to leave....I don't need to sleep with you or romance you to do that. And frankly, until you were in a healthier place, I just wouldn't find you attractive as a suitable person to get involved with.

[Alice2012]

My MM is not happy in his relationship and is making the necessary steps it takes to leave.

 

Aaah yes, the ever popular MM lines: "I'm in the process of separating" or "I'm in the process of getting a divorce."

[ISurvived]

If your marriage is unhappy and your husband had an affair, it's on you and him.

 

Wrong answer. If he has an affair, it's on him 100%. Of course, you being a willing participant, knowing he is married, puts you right at the bottom of the food chain.

[Got it]

Unknown to the betrayed spouse, they play a pivotal role in the "affair" dynamic. The role we are given is of the Villain, and without that ingredient the affair lacks the drama that cheaters are desperate for. Without this, there is nothing to validate the betrayal. This also serves the purpose of allowing the cheaters to be portrayed as the romantic victims. In every "affair" there is this delusional thread that the affair partners are rescuing each other from their tragic loveless lives.

 

In a normal relationship where two single people meet and begin dating, you do not see the elaborate drama and secrecy that excites in an affair, no stolen moments, no desperate texting and sexting, no VILLAIN to keep them apart.

In a normal dating relationship it is just the two of them, in an "affair" there are triangles. Or if both affair partners are married there are 4 in the mix, not excluding the children of course, thus increasing the DRAMA of the affair.

 

Let's not forget the children, because unknown to them they also play a role in the affair. The cheaters never miss the chance to proclaim how much they love their children. It is for the children the affair partners are sacrificing the dream of being with their "soulmate", and cannot divorce the evil spouse.

The affair partners, are so noble, sacrificing their own happiness for the greater good.

 

So the lovers become, us against the world, they can only survive on stolen moments, so these moments are magnified, intensified, the sex becomes desperate, as if there may never be a next time. They rain compliments on each other, they gorge on the awesomeness of each other, they revel in the perfection mirrored in each others eyes. They Lie to everyone...but not Never to each other.

 

The lovers become each others safe haven from the evil Spouse and cruel world as they experiment with sex toys, anal sex, slippery body oil, without need of condoms because if they are in love STD'S do not exist. They are always perfumed, bathed and coiffed. There's wine, love letters, special gifts. It is truly a "Miracle", that they found each other. God did not have the time to save the thousands of starving children that die each day but somehow found the time to bring these "lovers" together.

 

There is also the absence of basic human bodily functions that the affair partners do not possess. They are fartless, never take a **** and never stink up the lovely hotel room, no bad breath, ass streaked underwear, nose picking or flem hacking coughs. When the lovers are together they mystical beings.

And of course there no pesky children to interrupt the precious time they have together. No chores, diapers to change, no bills to sort, dentist and doctors appointments, no car pooling the kids around from their sports activities.

 

For the "affair", it's silk sheets, soft music, candles, platitudes, never ending compliments, as as they construct a sky's the limit pedestal in which to perch themselves on. From high up on this pedestal they gaze down on the world and sigh sadly, that if it were not for the evil spouse they could live happily ever after.

 

 

This grand "love"' they share is precious and fragile. It's survival can only be guaranteed by only a few key factors:

Deception

Secrecy

Greed

 

And of course.....Non-discovery by the evil spouse

(or those pesky children they claim to love)

 

 

Sigh . . . no, my ex was not a villian nor was dMM's ex wife. This concept might be true for some affairs but I do not recall it for mine. With my ex I was just done, lethal flatness. My anger with him was tied to trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and actually had reached a level of acceptance and peace when I finally faced reality and realized that one, who says that I am right and he was wrong, and two, it was pompous of me to think that he needed to change. But the realization that I couldn't accept the differences any longer. It actually brought peace and realization of divorce. My affair happened 6 months later and I left a few weeks after that.

 

But I never thought he was a villain or was at fault. I cared about him, he is a great guy. Just not the right fit for me. I loved him/ love him, just not in the way a wife should.

[Spark1111]

Sigh . . . no, my ex was not a villian nor was dMM's ex wife. This concept might be true for some affairs but I do not recall it for mine. With my ex I was just done, lethal flatness. My anger with him was tied to trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and actually had reached a level of acceptance and peace when I finally faced reality and realized that one, who says that I am right and he was wrong, and two, it was pompous of me to think that he needed to change. But the realization that I couldn't accept the differences any longer. It actually brought peace and realization of divorce. My affair happened 6 months later and I left a few weeks after that.

 

But I never thought he was a villain or was at fault. I cared about him, he is a great guy. Just not the right fit for me. I loved him/ love him, just not in the way a wife should.

 

Obviously, you had the rare exit affair....to a tee! You had decided the marriage was dead six months before you met someone new and left within a few weeks.

 

This is classic.

 

Furious was speaking to those of us who represent the other 95%...a MM or MW carry on, sometimes for months to years, with words of passion and undying love only to have it all go pssssst when it hits the light of day and the MP is forced to choose which life and partner they want, IF the BS does not up and file for divorce immediately.

 

They live in this fantasy world of perfection and then boom! Beg to reconcile while crying at the front door you are slamming in their face.

 

For us, it rings very true. I read the emails, intercepted the texts, survived the lunacy and this post made me LMAO.

[Spark1111]

Trying to figure out what right you have to presume you know anything about the relationship between MM and OW. I am the other woman. I love my relationship, and that is exactly what it is. It isn't all rainbows and unicorns. It is a parallel relationship that runs alongside the marriage, whether it's happy or not. All relationships are different. My MM is not happy in his relationship and is making the necessary steps it takes to leave. But, if he didn't leave, I would stay with him because I love him. We have something that we can't get from another partner. If your marriage is unhappy and your husband had an affair, it's on you and him. But I will tell you, as the OW, we have issues, just like a regular relationship. You are mad the horns are on your head, but you want everyone to see a halo where there is none.

 

Ok, and I think you want to see a good man with kind intentions.

 

But what you ARE seeing is a man, who when the going gets tough, lies to his spouse and runs into the arms of another woman.

 

And if that man some day becomes your man full time, you have lived with his character defects so that you shouldn't be all that surprised that when you are no longer "new" or "forbidden" he may run into the arms of another other woman.

 

What has changed? Nothing.

 

I had no halo on my head, but then again, neither did he. The fundamental difference between us is I don't lie, cheat, run around. betray my spouse or my family.

 

If the marriage is dead, end it. If it isn't, honor your obligations until you fix it or decide to leave it.

 

It really is that simple. Don't get snowed here and wait for years. THen you are being used.

[Got it]

Obviously, you had the rare exit affair....to a tee! You had decided the marriage was dead six months before you met someone new and left within a few weeks.

 

This is classic.

 

Furious was speaking to those of us who represent the other 95%...a MM or MW carry on, sometimes for months to years, with words of passion and undying love only to have it all go pssssst when it hits the light of day and the MP is forced to choose which life and partner they want, IF the BS does not up and file for divorce immediately.

 

They live in this fantasy world of perfection and then boom! Beg to reconcile while crying at the front door you are slamming in their face.

 

For us, it rings very true. I read the emails, intercepted the texts, survived the lunacy and this post made me LMAO.

 

Okay, though Furious' post never prefaced like that. DMM would fall into the same role as mine, his ex wife was never viewed as anything but neutral beyond the feelings of having drifted apart and some negativity towards her affair years earlier. I say negativity because I have never seen it any more energetic to be called anything more than that. He had found peace with it with a "it is what it is" attitude.

 

Now? There is substantial more anger towards her due to behaviors during the divorce and her actions after finding out about his affair/the hypocrisy as well as dragging the kids into it. So now, yes, he has many a choice word to say about her.

 

I say all of this as he did not leave right away, it was a year and then a dday.

 

I can't speak for others, but I have not witnessed any villifying of the BS in my case. As all relationships we have our perceptions of things and I know I have said a choice word here and there when he pisses me off. But during the EMR he was very diplomatic about her. Now it seems in her case she may have villified him but neither he or I choose that path.

 

I can say that if he was extremely negative of her I would have seen that as a red flag and would have questioned his ability to be accountable/victim mentality. Actually he said many times, during the EMR, what an amazing mother she was. He just felt that they were only roomates and he felt that the relationship changed when he found out about her affair and her lack of remorse.

[Spark1111]

Okay, though Furious' post never prefaced like that. DMM would fall into the same role as mine, his ex wife was never viewed as anything but neutral beyond the feelings of having drifted apart and some negativity towards her affair years earlier. I say negativity because I have never seen it any more energetic to be called anything more than that. He had found peace with it with a "it is what it is" attitude.

 

Now? There is substantial more anger towards her due to behaviors during the divorce and her actions after finding out about his affair/the hypocrisy as well as dragging the kids into it. So now, yes, he has many a choice word to say about her.

 

I say all of this as he did not leave right away, it was a year and then a dday.

 

I can't speak for others, but I have not witnessed any villifying of the BS in my case. As all relationships we have our perceptions of things and I know I have said a choice word here and there when he pisses me off. But during the EMR he was very diplomatic about her. Now it seems in her case she may have villified him but neither he or I choose that path.

 

I can say that if he was extremely negative of her I would have seen that as a red flag and would have questioned his ability to be accountable/victim mentality. Actually he said many times, during the EMR, what an amazing mother she was. He just felt that they were only roomates and he felt that the relationship changed when he found out about her affair and her lack of remorse.

 

Then I applaud YOU as you conducted yourself with dignity and honor.

 

There are MANY of us who have found ourselves not only betrayed by our WS, who may have started off never negatively dishonoring us, to having us dishonored by the fOW as she grows impatient with him and NEEDS to vilify us, and having him agree, as she is desperately trying to convince him that she would be a much better steward of the man.

 

And he wants the affair to continue, so he starts to agree with her slow and steady undermining of our character, our love of him, our efforts to make him happy, our commitment to the marriage.

 

OUCH! That hurts!

 

What Game is that? It is played more often than most would like to believe; women competing with women to feel superior. Men competing with men.

 

So they are always perfectly coiffed, candles lighted, perfumed and groomed to perfection, while we schlep his children from stem to sturm and allow his working late because we are so proud he is trying so hard to provide for us.

 

Surely, as a woman, you can understand this? These women are not dignified, nor stable, nor gracious, nor kind.

 

We now have to overcome our spouse's infidelity, if we choose to, and then have to overcome the fantasy of a woman who worked overtime to make him feel like a God, partially because she had feelings for him, and partially because it empowers her to win against another woman.

 

You are smart. I know you get this.

[Radagast]

Unknown to the betrayed spouse, they play a pivotal role in the "affair" dynamic. The role we are given is of the Villain, and without that ingredient the affair lacks the drama that cheaters are desperate for. Without this, there is nothing to validate the betrayal. This also serves the purpose of allowing the cheaters to be portrayed as the romantic victims. In every "affair" there is this delusional thread that the affair partners are rescuing each other from their tragic loveless lives.

 

In a normal relationship where two single people meet and begin dating, you do not see the elaborate drama and secrecy that excites in an affair, no stolen moments, no desperate texting and sexting, no VILLAIN to keep them apart.

In a normal dating relationship it is just the two of them, in an "affair" there are triangles. Or if both affair partners are married there are 4 in the mix, not excluding the children of course, thus increasing the DRAMA of the affair.

 

Let's not forget the children, because unknown to them they also play a role in the affair. The cheaters never miss the chance to proclaim how much they love their children. It is for the children the affair partners are sacrificing the dream of being with their "soulmate", and cannot divorce the evil spouse.

The affair partners, are so noble, sacrificing their own happiness for the greater good.

 

So the lovers become, us against the world, they can only survive on stolen moments, so these moments are magnified, intensified, the sex becomes desperate, as if there may never be a next time. They rain compliments on each other, they gorge on the awesomeness of each other, they revel in the perfection mirrored in each others eyes. They Lie to everyone...but not Never to each other.

 

The lovers become each others safe haven from the evil Spouse and cruel world as they experiment with sex toys, anal sex, slippery body oil, without need of condoms because if they are in love STD'S do not exist. They are always perfumed, bathed and coiffed. There's wine, love letters, special gifts. It is truly a "Miracle", that they found each other. God did not have the time to save the thousands of starving children that die each day but somehow found the time to bring these "lovers" together.

 

There is also the absence of basic human bodily functions that the affair partners do not possess. They are fartless, never take a **** and never stink up the lovely hotel room, no bad breath, ass streaked underwear, nose picking or flem hacking coughs. When the lovers are together they mystical beings.

And of course there no pesky children to interrupt the precious time they have together. No chores, diapers to change, no bills to sort, dentist and doctors appointments, no car pooling the kids around from their sports activities.

 

For the "affair", it's silk sheets, soft music, candles, platitudes, never ending compliments, as as they construct a sky's the limit pedestal in which to perch themselves on. From high up on this pedestal they gaze down on the world and sigh sadly, that if it were not for the evil spouse they could live happily ever after.

 

 

This grand "love"' they share is precious and fragile. It's survival can only be guaranteed by only a few key factors:

Deception

Secrecy

Greed

 

And of course.....Non-discovery by the evil spouse

(or those pesky children they claim to love)

 

This was not my experience of my affair at all. On a semantic level of course it would not have been an affair had my then-wife not existed so on a semantic level of course her presence was necessary for the relationship to be termed an affair, but that is the extent of it. My earliest threads (since wiped out by the server crash of those years back) were testament to my desperately wishing my then-wife did not exist, I wished she would just evaporate in a puff of smoke and vanish forever. She was certainly not required as any backdrop in any romantic drama. I hated the drama in which she is so steeped even to this day even though in my naive teenage years that was what drew me to her. I had outgrown that decades ago.

 

Our relationship was not conducted in secrecy and did not need cloak and dagger props to flourish. Our love flourished because it was healthy and strong and respectful and because my wife and I chose it and chose to work to overcome the petty and irritating contextual limitations which included my vestigial marriage and the presence in my life of my then-wife. We overcame those and cast off those shackles so that our relationship could become what we wanted it to be and the only role for my ex-wife is as a salutary reminder of how awful a relationship can become if you do not care for it and do not love, respect and cherish your partner, and a warning to our children to choose wisely in their relationships.

[woinlove]

This was not my experience of my affair at all. On a semantic level of course it would not have been an affair had my then-wife not existed so on a semantic level of course her presence was necessary for the relationship to be termed an affair, but that is the extent of it. My earliest threads (since wiped out by the server crash of those years back) were testament to my desperately wishing my then-wife did not exist, I wished she would just evaporate in a puff of smoke and vanish forever. She was certainly not required as any backdrop in any romantic drama. I hated the drama in which she is so steeped even to this day even though in my naive teenage years that was what drew me to her. I had outgrown that decades ago.

 

Our relationship was not conducted in secrecy and did not need cloak and dagger props to flourish. Our love flourished because it was healthy and strong and respectful and because my wife and I chose it and chose to work to overcome the petty and irritating contextual limitations which included my vestigial marriage and the presence in my life of my then-wife. We overcame those and cast off those shackles so that our relationship could become what we wanted it to be and the only role for my ex-wife is as a salutary reminder of how awful a relationship can become if you do not care for it and do not love, respect and cherish your partner, and a warning to our children to choose wisely in their relationships.

 

I think some of the insights given in the OP only become apparent with experience and reflection. When I was involved in an A, I didn't think the BS was important at all, but now I realize there were elements at play specifically because it was an A and there was a BS.

 

I think most posting in OW/OM and Infidelity are affected by the relationship being an A and having a BS, which is likely why they chose those specific forums and not more general R forums. However, some of the insights into how they were affected by it being an A may only come with time. That was the case for me.

[Got it]

Then I applaud YOU as you conducted yourself with dignity and honor.

 

There are MANY of us who have found ourselves not only betrayed by our WS, who may have started off never negatively dishonoring us, to having us dishonored by the fOW as she grows impatient with him and NEEDS to vilify us, and having him agree, as she is desperately trying to convince him that she would be a much better steward of the man.

 

And he wants the affair to continue, so he starts to agree with her slow and steady undermining of our character, our love of him, our efforts to make him happy, our commitment to the marriage.

 

OUCH! That hurts!

 

What Game is that? It is played more often than most would like to believe; women competing with women to feel superior. Men competing with men.

 

So they are always perfectly coiffed, candles lighted, perfumed and groomed to perfection, while we schlep his children from stem to sturm and allow his working late because we are so proud he is trying so hard to provide for us.

 

Surely, as a woman, you can understand this? These women are not dignified, nor stable, nor gracious, nor kind.

 

We now have to overcome our spouse's infidelity, if we choose to, and then have to overcome the fantasy of a woman who worked overtime to make him feel like a God, partially because she had feelings for him, and partially because it empowers her to win against another woman.

 

You are smart. I know you get this.

 

Let's not get carried away with that statement and I don't believe his ex would agree; just a lesser degree of "evil" if you will.

 

And you are right, I have never competed with other women for a man nor have I understood doing so. In high school my best friend would "corral" off a male interest and would not allow others to date them regardless of if they were an ex of her's or just an interest. She, and others, have dated my ex's and I don't recall being upset.

 

What I am trying to show is that not all cases are like the OP's thread. That not everyone feels a need to villify the BS. In my case, and I don't know if it is any better, she truly was a non entity. She did not exist out side the perimeters of his life. She didn't warrant enough energy to actually discuss outside of discussions of past relationships, etc. I am not sure, if I was in her shoes, if that would be better or worst. I know that she suspected he/we spoke poorly of her based on some emails she wrote in defense of herself but that was never the case.

 

I also believe that in most cases the behavior of the OW in speaking ill of the BS would have to have come from, started by, and allowed by, the MP. I am not saying it doesn't happen with the OP first but usually it is the MP who begins the relationship denouncing their spouse as a means to an end and opening the door to negative comments.

 

Again there are all walks of individuals and all different types of relationships. I am showing a potential different side; one that I don't believe is a rarity based on my observations and conversations.

[Got it]

what old would you feel that his betrayed wife plays in your relationship? I'm asking because as much as you'd like for her to not be a factor, she is...otherwise, he'd be single and it wouldn't be an "affair"...

 

Yes she can be a factor but nothing more than a potential loophole to close. I know that seems callous but not in every situation is there a great decision between OP and BS. There are cases where the BS is tied to the kids and that is a bigger deal than the relationship between BS and WS.

 

Again not in every case, there are definitely a number of affairs where it is more about seeing if the grass is greener, or enhancing an already pretty good existence than about actually making a major life change.

[Got it]

that's the interesting thing... ( maybe interesting is not the right word?)

 

if you were to talk to the betrayed spouse, other man/woman and the married person, you might very well get a different account from each...perhaps none of their versions is "correct", but if you combine them, you get something that's the closest to an unbiased reality...

 

mind you, based on each sides perception, they may very well be stating what their own "reality" is...

 

Absolutely, that is where the saying "there is his truth, her truth and then the truth" comes from. We all have a different perpection of things and our past, thought process, etc clearly colors our account of the facts. Ties in why witnesses to crimes are not always very reliable as their own baggage and history colors their views of the events.

 

Humans are fascinating creatures, capable of so many things but clearly defined and controlled by our history and emotional make up. Add emotions into all of this, human engagement and you have multiple versions of the truth!

 

Doesn't mean any of them are wrong, per say, but different shoes different perspection.

 

I know that if you sat my ex and I down and start grilling us on our relationship there would be difference in perspection. I know one area (as we discussed it) was my recollection of fairly beating over his head our issues and needs of therapy. While I felt completely exhausted by my attempts he does not recall things in quite that extreme. He recalls my suggestions and requests but does not recall it being so desperate. Why? Because we had different motivations behind it; he didn't see them as major enough issues and I did.

 

Because everything is "colored" this is where I take fault with the idea that human interaction could be fantasy. If one person states it based on their interaction, it is reality. Now is it realistic and/or logical? Totally different question and that can be a resounding no. But reality/fantasy actually takes into question if it actually happened and that would be a yes. Fantasy would be the imagination of one's making and even then that can be their reality.

[Radagast]

I think some of the insights given in the OP only become apparent with experience and reflection. When I was involved in an A, I didn't think the BS was important at all, but now I realize there were elements at play specifically because it was an A and there was a BS.

 

I think most posting in OW/OM and Infidelity are affected by the relationship being an A and having a BS, which is likely why they chose those specific forums and not more general R forums. However, some of the insights into how they were affected by it being an A may only come with time. That was the case for me.

 

For some people, experience and reflection may lead to insights such as those. For others, experience, reflection, therapy and research lead to other, quite different insights, such as mine. Neither is more valid for the person whose insights they are, since each was led to their own insights through their own unique journey. Implying that one person's insights are more valid, or somehow more "mature", because they chime with one's own is simply one's own opinion rather than any kind of objective statement of fact.

 

As I stated in my post, of course my then-wife's existence mattered. Had she not existed I would not have spent countless hours wishing she didn't, or all that money divorcing her! But her existence did not shape the fabric of my relationship with my then-lover. We shaped that. To the extent my then-wife had any impact on our relationship it was a toxic one which we were both very pleased to be rid of, rather than the picture painted of the affair needing the ongoing presence of the other spouse as some kind of vital nutrient to sustain its viability.

[woinlove]

For some people, experience and reflection may lead to insights such as those. For others, experience, reflection, therapy and research lead to other, quite different insights, such as mine. Neither is more valid for the person whose insights they are, since each was led to their own insights through their own unique journey. Implying that one person's insights are more valid, or somehow more "mature", because they chime with one's own is simply one's own opinion rather than any kind of objective statement of fact.

 

As I stated in my post, of course my then-wife's existence mattered. Had she not existed I would not have spent countless hours wishing she didn't, or all that money divorcing her! But her existence did not shape the fabric of my relationship with my then-lover. We shaped that. To the extent my then-wife had any impact on our relationship it was a toxic one which we were both very pleased to be rid of, rather than the picture painted of the affair needing the ongoing presence of the other spouse as some kind of vital nutrient to sustain its viability.

 

I agree that we can have different insights. And some insights can remain steady through the decades while others continue to evolve.

 

For example, some who marry the AP may end up in a state where the former BS really is irrelevant and barely comes up in their thoughts/posts. Or the BS may become not so much irrelevant, as someone they have made their peace with, and who becomes simply an exS who they shared years with, perhaps had children with, but ultimately parted from. Their identity is probably more focussed on their current spouse and on marriage and not on affairs and infidelity and any resentment they had, feeling the BS was an impediment to be rid of, is gone. But it may take some time for the xWS to get to that point. For others, the BS may always remain the villain the OP refers to, the impediment to their R with the AP, still the third party in their new M, because of this focus.

 

Personally, I think affair dynamics are quite special and often intense and the BS usually plays an important role. What the OP describes appears quite common, although not universal. If one has truly checked out of one's M even before the A, but for some reason has chosen to remain legally married, the BS may be almost irrelevant, since their only connection may be a legal piece of paper. More commonly, we see examples where there is (or was) more of a connection to the BS, and coming to understand those dynamics can be quite useful for all concerned.

[Got it]

I agree that we can have different insights. And some insights can remain steady through the decades while others continue to evolve.

 

For example, some who marry the AP may end up in a state where the former BS really is irrelevant and barely comes up in their thoughts/posts. Or the BS may become not so much irrelevant, as someone they have made their peace with, and who becomes simply an exS who they shared years with, perhaps had children with, but ultimately parted from. Their identity is probably more focussed on their current spouse and on marriage and not on affairs and infidelity and any resentment they had, feeling the BS was an impediment to be rid of, is gone. But it may take some time for the xWS to get to that point. For others, the BS may always remain the villain the OP refers to, the impediment to their R with the AP, still the third party in their new M, because of this focus.

 

Personally, I think affair dynamics are quite special and often intense and the BS usually plays an important role. What the OP describes appears quite common, although not universal. If one has truly checked out of one's M even before the A, but for some reason has chosen to remain legally married, the BS may be almost irrelevant, since their only connection may be a legal piece of paper. More commonly, we see examples where there is (or was) more of a connection to the BS, and coming to understand those dynamics can be quite useful for all concerned.

 

I only hasten to include that not every affair has a competition influence between the OP and BS during or after the affair.

[goodthingscome]

I don't think it can be quite so black and white.

 

For the most part, all of my family and my affair partner's (now wife) family knew about it, and had even met on multiple occasions (I had met pretty much everyone in her family, she had met pretty much everyone mine). They all knew exactly what was going on, and while some didn't agree with it, the vast majority understood why it was happening. We also had many friends that were in the know as well.

 

With my ex, both her and I were the villain. I was completely destructive to her and she equally destructive to me (long before the affair). My wife's ex was by all means the villain. He was physically and mentally abusive to her for a long period of time, she just never had the guts to get out of the relationship and was worried about what would happen to her if she did. If a man beats his wife and she ends up having an affair on him, I don't think it's very fair to treat him like he's the one that's hard done by. She may have betrayed him by getting into a relationship with me, but he betrayed her long before I came along when he started punching her in the face and slamming her against walls.

 

Our relationship didn't start out so much as a rainbows and butterflies and nobody ever farts or burps, as it started out being a safe partner to go to, where there wasn't judgement or violence or destructive criticism. Where we each knew that we were individually f'ed up, but together we could somehow work to fix ourselves and each other. Where we could each lay our souls bare to one another and divulge the secrets of our current relationships that others had no idea about or could only guess at.

 

It worked out pretty good for us, coming up to 20 years together and the brokenness of both of us fixed. I'm certainly under no delusions and I'm not saying our situation is normal, but I'm also very much against painting affair situations with a single color.

 

I am happy that you each have found that "forever" someone, but I don't respect how you got there. There NEVER is a valid reason to lie or cheat.

 

If the relationship is over then do the right and honorable thing, get DIVORCED! It seems you have the KISA syndrome and your OW/Wife is someone who "needs" someone (man)to take care of her. Your "love story" will always be tainted by it's inception.

 

As a woman who married and then had a child with a physically abusive cheating alcoholic, who wasn't allowed to work or drive, and God forbid have a friend, trust me, I "know" that "villain'! It never crossed my mind to bring another man into my sick situation. I saw the future for my daughter with this behavior and left and never looked back. Was I scared? Hell yeah.

[seren]

The unknown role the BS plays in an affair is a bit of an oxymoron. The BS may have a part to play in a disfunctional marriage, but in an A? surely to play a role one has to be aware one has the walk on part. I thought I had the role of wife to faithful husband, had I known I was playing that role while also playing the role of betrayed wife I might have walked off stage left and negotiated for the part I had signed up for.