The unknown role the betrayed spouse plays in the"affair"!

[Spark1111]

You, Furious, make me laugh with your laser-sharp observations.

 

Of course any woman can find a "soulmate" at the end of the evening!

 

I could go to the corner bar tonight in jeans and a baggy shirt and I would be able to go home with someone. Any woman can do that!

 

What is so sad is realizing how easily men can be manipulated by their biology.... and the women who make a fortune off of it, or garner a "soulmate" relationship, maybe one with trips, limos, gifts, and lots of perks by it.

 

Like shooting fish in a barrel, truly.

 

Sadder is, they do not realize it. It truly is their Achilles heel. It is THAT easy. Maintain fascinated eye contact, tell them how wonderful they are, give them mind-blowing sex, mirror back their comments in an articulate manner, and the keys of the kingdom is your's.

[Furious]

Oh....Spark

 

If it were't so pathetic I could laugh...

[dreamingoftigers]

That's how my father found his "soulmate."

 

They hung out together for four months until he got caught.

 

Unfortunately I got to trip on the affair.

 

Really great.

 

All of a sudden he discovered that ****ing your "soulmate" and keeping your wife of 33 years are mutually exclusive activities.

[jlola]

Love you Furious:). But you forgot you have to play the push/pull game along with all of the good stuff. That makes it all more exciting. You have to make them feel some pain and fear by letting them know anyday may be your last day together.

 

You have to play come here,go away. We are meant to be, but I cannot bear to have my kids part-time,so I must make my marriage work(even though they do not really care about time with kids since they spend their free time with "soulmate". Then the cards or text of "I miss you" are strategically sent in order to get the drama rolling again.Hope and pain are the key ingredients to "infatuation" and no one works that better than folks in affairs.

 

 

 

 

The romantic letters are over the top. Ego boosting is a must!!! My father had 3 "soulmates", maybe more. but my mother only found cards and letters for 3. It breaks my heart to think how she must have felt reading them. The last one he told his new soulmate how making love to her was the best day in his life. My mother was furious when she told me. She said to her it meant the birth of his children was meaningless . The over the top romance is unbelievable. This coming from a guy who made great money, but made us wear hand me downs and beat his kids worse than animals for any slight. He had little tolerance for his kids. But affair partners saw none of that.He was all unicorns and gumdrops with them.

 

They did not know he made his kids give him manicures,called us names like imbeciles, liars. Threatened to throw us out the window when he was angry.

 

Now when I look back at things I remember how Mr. Crazy periodically would go around the house singing. His favorite song was "I'm at the top of the world" Carpenters I think. I used to wonder why he was singing such an old song. Another one he would sing was "Oh what a night". My sister and I discussed it one day and came to a conclusion those songs were inspired by his affairs. Sad.

 

Couple of weeks ago I was at a friends who FINALLY let go of her cheating husband. Mistress had a baby last year, but he kept insisting it was not his. She found out it was. Her 10 year old son was showing his friend pics from his phone. There was a picture of baby and 10 year olds older sister. The friend asked who baby was. "that's my brother" he said. The friend said I didn't know your mom had another baby. "It's not my mom's it's my fathers son. But please don't say anything to your mom about this because I'm not supposed to tell". I was so upset. It brought back triggers. I was in the same boat as this boy. My half sister is a product of my father's affair with a MW 3 doors down. So explaining it to friends brought a lot of shame.

 

It took me a long time to understand it was NOT my shame to carry. my father and the married woman denied it was his child. The cowards tried to pass my half sister off as MW's husbands. But even without DNA it was evident.

 

My half sister then went on to marry and did EXACTLY what her mother did. She had a son for affair partner and tried to pass him off as her husbands. This is all unfortunately not fiction. My nephew was 4 years old before her husband found out. His family had been suspicious and the husbands brother being doctor took full advantage to DNA testing.

 

To say this did not devastate his family(I heard the grandmother took it especially hard) is an understatement. They divorced.My brother-in-law died in a car crash about 8 months later. he was not even 30. I often wonder if he never fully recovered and was sort still in a daze when the accident happened. I know a woman who put diesel gas in her car and would pass her exits even after her husband and she separated due to affair, so I know it happens.

 

Anyway, my sister never told my nephew till recently who his real father was. She led him to believe her husband who died in the car crash was his father. She also led him to believe his family turned their back on them after the death. Selfishness knows no boundaries.

 

My oldest sister is a serial cheater. On her 5th marriage(since July) and already she is coming home late from work. Her husband called a cousin complain. Last week he was admitted to the hospital,anxiety I think. Ironically she happened to mention recently an ex boyfriend she is now talking to told her he made a huge mistake letting her go. Why was he not that interested when she was available? People all seem to want what they cannot have.

 

The legacy go down to their children. Do as I say, not as I do is not what happens. I know I had a huge issue with avoidance and had a tendency to be attracted to men who had narcissitic traits. Men who were emotionally unavailable. That is what I learned. But at least I am like my mother. No matter what happened, no matter how bad a partner my mother had, she never cheated.

 

I also have to agree for her it would have been like shooting fish in a barrel. My mother was so gorgoeus my older sisters high school boyfriends would come by just to look at her. She had three kids and still could wear a bikini. part Portugeese with long thick hair to her waist. But she never took the opportunity.

 

 

You ladies are right. It is quite easy to find a soulmate. You would think after seeing a woman married 5x men would run. But not only is her ex boyfriend pining for her now. But her teenage sweetheart had said she was the love of his life and had he married her he would have been her only husband. sad part is he is married and I think that is such a disrespectful thing to say, I feel sorry for his wife.

 

Every man's ego is telling him it's the other men's fault. Not my sweet sister.they all think they are special and would know how to make her happy.

 

How does she have a trail of men everywhere she goes? 1st she makes sure she looks good. 2nd, she is a great flirt. 3rd , she takes on the identity of the men she is aiming for so it begins to look like they have so much in common, 4th she knows just the right time to buy a nice gift or let him know she is thinking about him, 5th she falls in love very quickly and builds each man's ego up by letting him know she has never been this in love before with anyone.

 

She has said this "NEVER SO IN LOVE BEFORE" BS about every man she dates or has married. Before her wedding in July she tried to tell me 5th husband is really her soulmate because she was never really in love with any of her ex husbands or ex boyfriends . Such deniAL as she goes amazingly crazy for each and every one, but they forget quickly when they are infatuated with a new victim.

 

I have seen too much crazy in my life to believe any good comes from affairs. The only people who think they are so great are the folks in them.

 

You, Furious, make me laugh with your laser-sharp observations.

 

Of course any woman can find a "soulmate" at the end of the evening!

 

I could go to the corner bar tonight in jeans and a baggy shirt and I would be able to go home with someone. Any woman can do that!

 

What is so sad is realizing how easily men can be manipulated by their biology.... and the women who make a fortune off of it, or garner a "soulmate" relationship, maybe one with trips, limos, gifts, and lots of perks by it.

 

Like shooting fish in a barrel, truly.

 

Sadder is, they do not realize it. It truly is their Achilles heel. It is THAT easy. Maintain fascinated eye contact, tell them how wonderful they are, give them mind-blowing sex, mirror back their comments in an articulate manner, and the keys of the kingdom is your's.

[findingnemo]

Love you Furious:). But you forgot you have to play the push/pull game along with all of the good stuff. That makes it all more exciting. You have to make them feel some pain and fear by letting them know anyday may be your last day together.

 

You have to play come here,go away. We are meant to be, but I cannot bear to have my kids part-time,so I must make my marriage work(even though they do not really care about time with kids since they spend their free time with "soulmate". Then the cards or text of "I miss you" are strategically sent in order to get the drama rolling again.Hope and pain are the key ingredients to "infatuation" and no one works that better than folks in affairs.

 

 

 

 

The romantic letters are over the top. Ego boosting is a must!!! My father had 3 "soulmates", maybe more. but my mother only found cards and letters for 3. It breaks my heart to think how she must have felt reading them. The last one he told his new soulmate how making love to her was the best day in his life. My mother was furious when she told me. She said to her it meant the birth of his children was meaningless . The over the top romance is unbelievable. This coming from a guy who made great money, but made us wear hand me downs and beat his kids worse than animals for any slight. He had little tolerance for his kids. But affair partners saw none of that.He was all unicorns and gumdrops with them.

 

They did not know he made his kids give him manicures,called us names like imbeciles, liars. Threatened to throw us out the window when he was angry.

 

Now when I look back at things I remember how Mr. Crazy periodically would go around the house singing. His favorite song was "I'm at the top of the world" Carpenters I think. I used to wonder why he was singing such an old song. Another one he would sing was "Oh what a night". My sister and I discussed it one day and came to a conclusion those songs were inspired by his affairs. Sad.

 

Couple of weeks ago I was at a friends who FINALLY let go of her cheating husband. Mistress had a baby last year, but he kept insisting it was not his. She found out it was. Her 10 year old son was showing his friend pics from his phone. There was a picture of baby and 10 year olds older sister. The friend asked who baby was. "that's my brother" he said. The friend said I didn't know your mom had another baby. "It's not my mom's it's my fathers son. But please don't say anything to your mom about this because I'm not supposed to tell". I was so upset. It brought back triggers. I was in the same boat as this boy. My half sister is a product of my father's affair with a MW 3 doors down. So explaining it to friends brought a lot of shame.

 

It took me a long time to understand it was NOT my shame to carry. my father and the married woman denied it was his child. The cowards tried to pass my half sister off as MW's husbands. But even without DNA it was evident.

 

My half sister then went on to marry and did EXACTLY what her mother did. She had a son for affair partner and tried to pass him off as her husbands. This is all unfortunately not fiction. My nephew was 4 years old before her husband found out. His family had been suspicious and the husbands brother being doctor took full advantage to DNA testing.

 

To say this did not devastate his family(I heard the grandmother took it especially hard) is an understatement. They divorced.My brother-in-law died in a car crash about 8 months later. he was not even 30. I often wonder if he never fully recovered and was sort still in a daze when the accident happened. I know a woman who put diesel gas in her car and would pass her exits even after her husband and she separated due to affair, so I know it happens.

 

Anyway, my sister never told my nephew till recently who his real father was. She led him to believe her husband who died in the car crash was his father. She also led him to believe his family turned their back on them after the death. Selfishness knows no boundaries.

 

My oldest sister is a serial cheater. On her 5th marriage(since July) and already she is coming home late from work. Her husband called a cousin complain. Last week he was admitted to the hospital,anxiety I think. Ironically she happened to mention recently an ex boyfriend she is now talking to told her he made a huge mistake letting her go. Why was he not that interested when she was available? People all seem to want what they cannot have.

 

The legacy go down to their children. Do as I say, not as I do is not what happens. I know I had a huge issue with avoidance and had a tendency to be attracted to men who had narcissitic traits. Men who were emotionally unavailable. That is what I learned. But at least I am like my mother. No matter what happened, no matter how bad a partner my mother had, she never cheated.

 

I also have to agree for her it would have been like shooting fish in a barrel. My mother was so gorgoeus my older sisters high school boyfriends would come by just to look at her. She had three kids and still could wear a bikini. part Portugeese with long thick hair to her waist. But she never took the opportunity.

 

 

You ladies are right. It is quite easy to find a soulmate. You would think after seeing a woman married 5x men would run. But not only is her ex boyfriend pining for her now. But her teenage sweetheart had said she was the love of his life and had he married her he would have been her only husband. sad part is he is married and I think that is such a disrespectful thing to say, I feel sorry for his wife.

 

Every man's ego is telling him it's the other men's fault. Not my sweet sister.they all think they are special and would know how to make her happy.

 

How does she have a trail of men everywhere she goes? 1st she makes sure she looks good. 2nd, she is a great flirt. 3rd , she takes on the identity of the men she is aiming for so it begins to look like they have so much in common, 4th she knows just the right time to buy a nice gift or let him know she is thinking about him, 5th she falls in love very quickly and builds each man's ego up by letting him know she has never been this in love before with anyone.

 

She has said this "NEVER SO IN LOVE BEFORE" BS about every man she dates or has married. Before her wedding in July she tried to tell me 5th husband is really her soulmate because she was never really in love with any of her ex husbands or ex boyfriends . Such deniAL as she goes amazingly crazy for each and every one, but they forget quickly when they are infatuated with a new victim.

 

I have seen too much crazy in my life to believe any good comes from affairs. The only people who think they are so great are the folks in them.

 

And this is why I think cheating makes a bad situation worse. How many people get hurt? In my country we call it the sexual network. A man cheats on his W with a MW. The MW's H cheats with a young woman who herself is in a R with another young man. All it takes if for one person to get a STD and boom! The HIV infection rate goes up. Everybody is cooked!!

 

Add to that poor innocent children who wake up one day to discover that their Dad isn't their father and that their mother slept around.

 

There is a lesson that is taught to young ladies here. It is sexist but it has a point. I was told by my mother that cheating on my H will have consequences beyond my imagination. She told me that not only would he be devastated, the family would break up but that these were short term effects. Both adults can move on. She said that the kids however don't just move on without learning a lesson. If I have boys, they would learn that the woman they loved, their mother - a saint in their eyes - wasn't a saint after all. They would feel betrayed and would take it out on other women in the future. If the woman they love most couldnt be trusted, then they'll never be able to fully trust other women.

 

The girls would learn another lesson. They would learn that a W can sleep with someone else and move on. You see, girls look to their mothers as examples and what is good for their mothers is good for them. As a mother who cheated, you'll not be able to convince your daughter that she shouldn't cheat.

 

So jlola, I'm not surprised that history repeated itself. How could it not? The odds were high that the children in these situations would learn unhealthy R patterns. This I'm afraid is the often neglected consequence of cheating in many homes.

[Furious]

Jlola...my heart breaks for you and your mother.

You are wise and hurting. You see and express the truth of the selfishness in certain people and the damage they cause.

 

Findingnemo...you are so right. Infedelity...especially when it harms the children, can and will destroy a family and the repercussions are life altering.

 

I can't sleep...I haven't slept a single night without waking up every couple of hours and not crumble from the pain I feel. I have days when I seem to be ok...days when I feel strong...but the truth is I'm scared. I don't want to break up my family, but I don't know if I can forgive my husband and if that cannot happen, it will be over.

[freestyle]

Jlola...

it sounds like you have had a really rough go of things..I'm so sorry for that...

 

your half sister ( hope I have that right) kind of fits the description of someone with a histrionic personality ( Histrionic Personality Disorder - PsychCentral )...not saying that defines her or that I'm trying to diagnose her, but when you look at the the root cause for someone having this disorder, it seems to stem from childhood issues, and it sounds like your half sister had those in spades. She was in a sense "rejected" by her biological father and then by the man she thought was her father, etc.

 

Sorry to say it but you can see how your father's actions carry an affect from generation to generation.

 

Funny you should mention HPD, frozensprouts---the same exact thing popped into MY head when I read jlola's description of her half-sister.

[jlola]

Funny you should mention HPD, frozensprouts---the same exact thing popped into MY head when I read jlola's description of her half-sister.

 

 

You are correct about the personality disorders. My 5x married sister I believe is a borderline personality waif.

 

My half sister I really do not know well. But believe she has a personality disorder also. Father narcissist /sociopath. He fits the bill to a t.

 

As far as generational yes.

 

Di I mention my paternal grandmother had my father and another son and never married? Don't know the full story, but know my father never met his father and I am sure grandfather was married. All my life I was told grandfather was dead as explanation. . But he dies just a few years ago.

 

Children most always suffer. Even though they do not outright know what is going on.

 

Ironically, I can never figure out my mother. She had great loving parents. My maternal grandfather was an amazingly kind and giving man. But she was one of 10 children(strict Catholics from back in the day). So perhaps she felt neglect somehow? don't know. But it always boggles me how she could stay in such a situation.

 

But some cultures are prone to infidelity. Mine is. Now the women are getting into it too.

 

There is a song I used to sing when I was little. It meant nothing to me. But now I understand. It is about a girl who wants to marry a boy . But finds out the boy is her brother. She sings about the tragedy of her mother finding out.

At the end of the song, she finally tells her mother. The mother's response it to "marry the boy" Since "your father is not your father, but he doesn't know it". It is supposed to be a funny folk song and even kids sing it. Without knowing what it actually means.

[Spark1111]

Funny you should mention HPD, frozensprouts---the same exact thing popped into MY head when I read jlola's description of her half-sister.

 

The FOW in my sitch popped into my head! Oh, the drama!

 

Also, pathological lying is often associated with HPD...the constant need for attention is that great!

[Spark1111]

jlola, kudos to you for having the strength of your convictions after growing up in that scenario.

 

Do you know that your chance of cheating on your spouse increases 30 to 40% if one of your parents cheated?

 

It's not what you say, it's what you do that children role-model their future on.

[Steen719]

 

Ironically, I can never figure out my mother. She had great loving parents. My maternal grandfather was an amazingly kind and giving man. But she was one of 10 children(strict Catholics from back in the day). So perhaps she felt neglect somehow? don't know. But it always boggles me how she could stay in such a situation.

 

 

I grew up Catholic, in a predominantly Catholic area with many of my friends Catholic. To this day, I have friends (particularly the older ones) who still believe in no divorce no matter the circumstances. Maybe she had that mentality? I also had a friend whose mother (also Catholic) was abused by her husband (my friend's step-father...her dad had died) and she stayed for way too many years while her children watched the abuse and in fact got some of it, too. My friend and her sisters have grown up with those scars and have always asked each other why she stayed and they resent her for it. I know she had no way of supporting them all; that doesn't seem to be enough of a reason for them. Anyway, you are right. The effects are long lasting.

 

I can't sleep...I haven't slept a single night without waking up every couple of hours and not crumble from the pain I feel. I have days when I seem to be ok...days when I feel strong...but the truth is I'm scared. I don't want to break up my family, but I don't know if I can forgive my husband and if that cannot happen, it will be over.

 

I am so sorry for your pain, really. I would guess that many of us have been right in that spot and we know how bad it feels. I hope you find some peace soon.

 

Do you know that your chance of cheating on your spouse increases 30 to 40% if one of your parents cheated?

 

It's not what you say, it's what you do that children role-model their future on.

 

I didn't know this. My son has expressed to me that he hopes he is never like his dad and that if he is, he will be very disappointed in himself. He worries about it. That pisses me off at his father. The disappointment he feels is affecting his feelings for his dad.

[SandieBeach]

jlola, kudos to you for having the strength of your convictions after growing up in that scenario.

Do you know that your chance of cheating on your spouse increases 30 to 40% if one of your parents cheated?

 

It's not what you say, it's what you do that children role-model their future on.

 

Spark, I'm curious where you got these stats. Also, does this distinguish from those parents who cheated and the affair was a known in the household (where the kids could see how their cheating parent acted), and from those parents who successfully hid it from the kids? I guess what I am asking is if the learned behavior is the reason the stats are so high.

[Furious]

Spark, I'm curious where you got these stats. Also, does this distinguish from those parents who cheated and the affair was a known in the household (where the kids could see how their cheating parent acted), and from those parents who successfully hid it from the kids? I guess what I am asking is if the learned behavior is the reason the stats are so high.

 

My husbands parents did not cheat and neither did mine.

 

I think if your piers are cheating or if there's an environment of cheating at your work place it can increase the odds of becoming a cheater also.

 

My husband's best friend knew from day one about the affair. He was all for it and gave him a high five.

 

My husband is no longer his friend.

[Trimmer]

I do not agree with cheating, but one thing about LS that bothers me is how the "forsaking all others" part of the marriage vows seems to be the only one that counts with a lot of people. There are a lot more to those vows and a whole lot more ways to betray a spouse than by having sex with another person.

 

Yes, spouses should divorce before being with anyone else. They also should divorce before verbally or physically abusing their spouse, or before unilaterally deciding to have a sexless marriage, or before deciding to neglect their spouses on a daily basis.

 

All somewhat equal in my book.

I would agree.

 

The reason that "forsaking all others" seems to be all the rage around here is because this is an Infidelity discussion board. Doesn't it make sense that it's the one that you hear about all the time?

 

But I will say this, it sounds like - without actually coming out and saying it directly - you are tiptoeing around the idea that perhaps betrayal of other marriage vows is an excuse for infidelity. As in "Oh, sure, 'forsaking all others', but look how I was abused, lied to, misled, whatever - he did it first..."

 

My thought is twofold: Yes, I agree with you, all the marriage vows are important. I believe that someone cheating on you should not give you cover, excuse, or motivation to beat them. And because I value all marriage vows, I also believe that someone beating on you should not give you cover, excuse, or motivation to cheat on them. You said yourself - the vows are all somewhat equal in your book, right?

 

The second part of that thought process goes something like this: if you are in an abusive relationship, objectively wouldn't you think that starting a secret, extramarital affair - far from providing a 'safe haven' - would actually greatly raise your risk profile for more abuse? How much sense does it make to take a volatile situation and add what is bound to be additional fuel?

 

Having said all of that, I can't throw stones at MoneyWorld - the proof of the pudding is in the tasting, and if your life and relationship has turned out to stand the test of time, then it certainly sounds like you made a good and lasting change.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Trimmer

[Furious]

Of course there can be worse things that can happen in a marriage other than being cheated on. Some marriages are toxic and abusive and I wouldn't wish that on anyone to suffer.

But it is not a contest either as which is worse.

[Furious]

Of course there can be worse things that can happen in a marriage other than being cheated on. Some marriages are toxic and abusive and I wouldn't wish that on anyone to suffer.

But it is not a contest either as which is worse and then in the same breath insinuate that those who are devastated by infedelity are being whiners.

[maybealone]

The reason that "forsaking all others" seems to be all the rage around here is because this is an Infidelity discussion board. Doesn't it make sense that it's the one that you hear about all the time?

 

I was actually referring to LS in general. I have seen posts in other parts of the forum that go along the lines of, "She's leaving me when I never even cheated on her!" I'm paraphrasing, of course, but it seems as though "not cheating" is a somewhat common definition of being a good spouse. It's important, but so are a lot of other things.

 

But I will say this, it sounds like - without actually coming out and saying it directly - you are tiptoeing around the idea that perhaps betrayal of other marriage vows is an excuse for infidelity. As in "Oh, sure, 'forsaking all others', but look how I was abused, lied to, misled, whatever - he did it first..."

 

I can see where I gave that impression. What I was trying to do what equate "She should have divorced me before cheating on me" with "He should have divorced me before deciding he wanted to abuse me." But I suppose on some level I might have been thinking that although it's not an excuse, it might sometimes be an explanation.

 

My thought is twofold: Yes, I agree with you, all the marriage vows are important. I believe that someone cheating on you should not give you cover, excuse, or motivation to beat them. And because I value all marriage vows, I also believe that someone beating on you should not give you cover, excuse, or motivation to cheat on them. You said yourself - the vows are all somewhat equal in your book, right?

 

Yes, I agree with you. Basically, I don't think a broken vow equals permission to cheat. But take, for example, a sexless marriage where the choice to not have sex anymore was made by only one spouse. I think that spouse should have attempting fixing the marriage and/or divorcing before deciding to have a sexless marriage in the same way I think a spouse should attempt to fix the marriage (if there are problems) and/or then divorcing before starting a relationship with someone else. That's what I meant by equal.

Edited April 12, 2012 by maybealone

[jlola]

Jlola...

it sounds like you have had a really rough go of things..I'm so sorry for that...

 

your half sister ( hope I have that right) kind of fits the description of someone with a histrionic personality ( Histrionic Personality Disorder - PsychCentral )...not saying that defines her or that I'm trying to diagnose her, but when you look at the the root cause for someone having this disorder, it seems to stem from childhood issues, and it sounds like your half sister had those in spades. She was in a sense "rejected" by her biological father and then by the man she thought was her father, etc.

 

Sorry to say it but you can see how your father's actions carry an affect from generation to generation.

 

 

 

My father has 4 daughters. the one married 5x is eldest and full sister.half sister is 3rd daughter. She is the one who tried to pass off her lovers child as her husbands. I am the 4th daughter. My mother did not find out about her till after I was born.

 

I also cannot understand people who say they are in an abusive marriage and are having affairs. How can that be? Most abusers are "controlling" and hypersensitive". they need to know your whereabout at all times and are always suspicious. How you can have an affair behind someone like that's back is beyond me.

 

I think you would have to be half crazy to be willing to bring the wrath of discovery to you and your children. Abusive men have very fragile egos. If it is that bad you better leave. In the meantime while you are with affair partner are you leaving your children at home alone with the man you call an abuser?

 

My mother hated leaving us alone with my father. Besides work she would try to be with us when he was home. We would go to the supermarket,bank,shopping with her rather than stay home with him.

 

my father was very jealous and controlling with my mother and us. The phone could not ring without him knowing who any of us was speaking to. Your time was accounted for from the minute we got back from school.I always wonder how a woman who claims her husband is abusive can get any free time at all away to conduct an affair.

[Furious]

This sounds like the classic passive aggressive type of person.

[Trimmer]

I can see where I gave that impression. What I was trying to do what equate "She should have divorced me before cheating on me" with "He should have divorced me before deciding he wanted to abuse me." But I suppose on some level I might have been thinking that although it's not an excuse, it might sometimes be an explanation.

I hear you, but in the spirit of equating the marital covenants, I am not even willing to entertain an "explanation" for cheating. I can understand "explaining" anger and frustrated feelings within a marriage, but I can't accept an "explanation" for the escalation to the behavior of striking a spouse. Similarly, I can understand "explaining" being emotionally or sexually rejected in your marriage, maybe even having feelings that you want to be with someone else, but I can't accept an "explanation" for escalating that situation to the behavior of cheating.

 

I don't really think you and I are disagreeing all that much; this is admittedly a fine point - perhaps just semantics, even... I do understand what you're saying.

 

Yes, I agree with you. Basically, I don't think a broken vow equals permission to cheat. But take, for example, a sexless marriage where the choice to not have sex anymore was made by only one spouse. I think that spouse should have attempting fixing the marriage and/or divorcing before deciding to have a sexless marriage in the same way I think a spouse should attempt to fix the marriage (if there are problems) and/or then divorcing before starting a relationship with someone else. That's what I meant by equal.

I hear you, and I agree.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Trimmer

[rowell2024]

Unknown to the betrayed spouse, they play a pivotal role in the "affair" dynamic. The role we are given is of the Villain, and without that ingredient the affair lacks the drama that cheaters are desperate for. Without this, there is nothing to validate the betrayal. This also serves the purpose of allowing the cheaters to be portrayed as the romantic victims. In every "affair" there is this delusional thread that the affair partners are rescuing each other from their tragic loveless lives.

 

In a normal relationship where two single people meet and begin dating, you do not see the elaborate drama and secrecy that excites in an affair, no stolen moments, no desperate texting and sexting, no VILLAIN to keep them apart.

In a normal dating relationship it is just the two of them, in an "affair" there are triangles. Or if both affair partners are married there are 4 in the mix, not excluding the children of course, thus increasing the DRAMA of the affair.

 

Let's not forget the children, because unknown to them they also play a role in the affair. The cheaters never miss the chance to proclaim how much they love their children. It is for the children the affair partners are sacrificing the dream of being with their "soulmate", and cannot divorce the evil spouse.

The affair partners, are so noble, sacrificing their own happiness for the greater good.

 

So the lovers become, us against the world, they can only survive on stolen moments, so these moments are magnified, intensified, the sex becomes desperate, as if there may never be a next time. They rain compliments on each other, they gorge on the awesomeness of each other, they revel in the perfection mirrored in each others eyes. They Lie to everyone...but not Never to each other.

 

The lovers become each others safe haven from the evil Spouse and cruel world as they experiment with sex toys, anal sex, slippery body oil, without need of condoms because if they are in love STD'S do not exist. They are always perfumed, bathed and coiffed. There's wine, love letters, special gifts. It is truly a "Miracle", that they found each other. God did not have the time to save the thousands of starving children that die each day but somehow found the time to bring these "lovers" together.

 

There is also the absence of basic human bodily functions that the affair partners do not possess. They are fartless, never take a **** and never stink up the lovely hotel room, no bad breath, ass streaked underwear, nose picking or flem hacking coughs. When the lovers are together they mystical beings.

And of course there no pesky children to interrupt the precious time they have together. No chores, diapers to change, no bills to sort, dentist and doctors appointments, no car pooling the kids around from their sports activities.

 

For the "affair", it's silk sheets, soft music, candles, platitudes, never ending compliments, as as they construct a sky's the limit pedestal in which to perch themselves on. From high up on this pedestal they gaze down on the world and sigh sadly, that if it were not for the evil spouse they could live happily ever after.

 

 

This grand "love"' they share is precious and fragile. It's survival can only be guaranteed by only a few key factors:

Deception

Secrecy

Greed

 

And of course.....Non-discovery by the evil spouse

(or those pesky children they claim to love)

 

Bravo! That exactly explains the affair fog/bubble.

[jlola]

Bravo! That exactly explains the affair fog/bubble.

 

My heart goes out to anyone and their family experiencing Affairs. Hope you can all eventually heal in the best way you can. Thank you to everyone here who has been understanding. Perhaps we can help shed a light to the ones who think no one will really be hurt by betrayal and the kids will all be fine in the long run.

 

Before you betray, man up and either try to work at your relationship or leave.

 

This is an interesting article.

 

Third stage of an affair: discovery/ addiction

 

The loyal spouse discovers the secret. Often the loyal spouse has had some suspicion that something isn't right and they've employed some sort of investigating such as computer keylogger software, looking at browser histories, guessing at the disloyal spouse's passwords for their email or cell phone, setting up hidden cameras or a recorder, or even hiring a private investigator or asking a friend! On the occasion the loyal spouse will happen upon the lovers or the evidence by accident, such as finding a love note in the wash, a hotel room registration for "Mr. and Mrs." and they weren't there or walk in on the affair "red handed!" Either through snooping, or by accident, the loyal spouse uncovers the truth and the affair is no longer a secret.

 

The loyal spouse is devastated and can barely function, and often will cry for several days in a row or get extremely angry to cover the hurt. Then a loyal spouse may do things that can only be described as contrary to their character. The wife who is normally the most peace-loving person will slap her husband; the husband who is normally a conflict avoider shows up at the other person's house for a fight. This is part of this stage, and a very normal reaction as this stage, for the loyal spouse, is just excruciating. The best advise for a loyal spouse at this point in the affair is to buy kleenex with lotion in the tissue, and to buy chunky soup...something warm and nourishing that you can manage to choke past the lump in your throat.

 

This stage in the affair is much different for the disloyal spouse. The other person and the disloyal spouse are defensive, elusive, and upset that their secret is out. During this stage, the disloyal spouse often acts out of their addiction to the phenylethylamine -- or "PEA" -- a naturally amphetamine that is one of the "love chemicals" along with Dopamine. (The idea that the "honeymoon period" of a relationship is fueled by different brain chemistry might explain why some people can't seem to hold long-term relationships: they prefer the revving-up affects of brain amphetamines. Since the romance addict wants to continue the fantasy and the "love chemicals" related to the rush of the affair, they will refuse to end contact .

 

Based on the addiction to the ampetamines of the affair, the disloyal spouse will make decisions that seem to make "no common sense" or that seem to disregard the amazing amount of life-long damage they're doing to their marriage and their children. " I love you but I am not in love with you" is a very common phrase used by romance addict to explain why they have strayed. In reality they have no understanding of what love really is.

 

This is the addiction, and there are some VERY typical techniques that a disloyal spouse will use. 1) "How DARE you violate my privacy!"--they try to deflect the guilt of their action and make the loyal spouse the bad guy. 2) Raging about exposure to parents or employer claiming their name was drug through the mud--again deflecting from the fact that THEIR ACTIONS are what is sullying their good name, not the loyal spouse speaking the truth. 3) Bring up a slightly related offense from decades ago and try to suggest that because of that past occurrence, they are justified in being unfaithful now. 4) What can only be described as Disloyal Dizziness.

 

They will reply to the most straightforward questions with obscure answers, deny the truth when the proof is evident, or respond with such a stupifying reply that the loyal spouse can't help but think "Did you HEAR what you just said? 5) (My personal favorite) "It's okay for me to be unfaithful because "AP and I are meant to be". Without going completely into Chrisitian theology, let's just say that it is very clear that God does not like adultery. It is clearly one of the ten commandments with NO exceptions given. But the delusion of the addict knows no bound in the same way a drug addict will justify . Again I repeat that at this stage, the addiction is over the top and beginning the downhill slide.

[MoneyWorld]

People do selfish things for selfish reasons in this world. People, for the most part, are just plain selfish. It could be major things, or it could be things that seem completely inconsequential - speeding, stepping in front of others in a line, monopolizing any kind of finite resource for themselves, etc.

 

My wife and I have have no children, either from our current marriage or previous marriages, so there were no children put at risk. Was it risky for her to get involved with me with a physically abusive husband in the picture? Yes, certainly. Life is all about risks however and the mitigation of such. Getting in your car is a risk, eating food is a risk, drinking water is a risk, all of life is a risk albeit with (normally) less chance of harm compared to having an affair behind an abusive husbands back.

 

My wife and I worked together, so could spend time together at work (not sexually of course, but being each others shoulder to lean on), plus her ex would travel enough that we could have other time together too.

 

Again, I'm not saying what we did was right, obviously infidelity is wrong. What I am trying to say is that there are degrees, yet many refuse to see that. They see only the black and white. A single mother of 4 stealing a box of Mac & Cheese from a huge supermarket chain to feed her children is no different than the president of a shady investment brokerage knowingly swindling seniors out of their life savings in the sense they are both thefts. There are degrees of wrong however.

 

I had no D-Day, nor did my wife. Her ex never knew about our affair, nor did my ex. Again, I'm not saying that this makes it all right.

 

Another analogy would be speeding after work to get to event your child is participating in. What you are doing is wrong, but you are doing it for the "right" reasons. If you get caught doing it, you'll end up having to pay a fine and in the grand scheme of things that's hurting your family as you are taking money away from the household due to your selfishness, no matter your reason for doing it. If you aren't caught, what you did was still wrong, but there isn't a penalty except maybe on your own conscience that you know you did wrong. Both my wife and I needed to get better, we were both in very bad places mentally and my wife both mentally and physically. Is having an affair the recommended way to fix the problems? Of course not, far from it - there is a far greater chance of making the situation worse than making it better. But when that's the only chance you have, you take it, no matter what the odds.

 

Yes, maybe it's a cop out, but the world is full of cop outs. It's a catch 22. Being stuck in a bad relationship with no chance of getting into a good one unless you can get out of of the bad one, but you need that crutch of the good one to get out of the bad one. In a perfect world both my wife and I would have been able to get healthy on our own, get out of our existing marriages, then get together. Unfortunately I'm far from perfect, my wife is far from perfect, and the world is far from perfect. We both did what we had to do at the time to get healthy for ourselves and for each other when we each felt there were no other alternatives. We both sped to little Johnny's football game, and neither one of us got a ticket. We both are very much aware it wasn't right, but we'd both do it again. It doesn't mean it's right, but there are certainly degrees of wrongness, and I think we aren't as far down the "wrong" scale as my wife's ex was.

[MoneyWorld]

I think you've misinterpreted. I fully admit what my wife and I did was wrong. What I'm saying is that there are degrees.

 

I'm not offering justifications, but explanations. When getting pulled over speeding to a child's event, you don't tell the cop that you are justified in doing it, just the explanation of why you are doing it. When a destitute single mother is in court for stealing a box of Mac & Cheese, she isn't justifying why she did it, just offering the explanation why. In both of the cases in my examples the person knows what they did is wrong.

 

Ask people on the street as to who is "more" wrong, the banker who steals from seniors or the single mother who steals food to feed her children, while you see it as very black and white and think they are equally wrong, I am willing to bet that most will see the banker as "more" wrong (this doesn't absolve the single mother).

 

I guess in hindsight it all depends if a person has a sense of degrees of wrong. To some, right and wrong is black and white.

[MoneyWorld]

I certainly get where you are coming from, but I don't know about having other choices or alternatives, or more specifically I don't know about being able to follow through on them.

 

I know that both my wife and I wanted out of our existing relationships long before we met each other, we just didn't have the support system to do so. Yes, there are always alternatives - I completely agree with that. But what if you are unable to engage those alternatives due to your own illness?

 

For someone who is an alcoholic it's easy to say to them that they should just quit drinking, or pay for rehab somewhere, but if those options don't work should the person just stay drinking or as an option should they find an accountability partner to help them quit?

 

Obviously it's not the same thing, but it's about the only thing I could come up with to draw a parallel. When you are sick, even if you know that you are sick, you can't always just go and get help. People who have anorexia or bulimia or self harm or hoard - they are usually aware that what they are doing is unhealthy, but they can't just go to a psychologist and say "I've got this problem, help me fix it".

 

Were there alternatives to having an affair? Yes, most certainly. Were there alternatives that I (or my wife) could engage? I'm not so sure, at least not at that point in our lives back then. It's very easy for me to look back at the situation and tell myself what I could have done. I can look back at the old me and see exactly what was wrong with me. But when you are locked inside of that sick person it's not easy to be strong.

 

If the situation was reversed and my ex was having a secret affair on me (which she very well may have been, I have no idea - just as she had no idea of mine) and it helped her get out of our marriage, I'd be happy for it. We were literally toxic to each other. We would get into all out screaming matches at least once a week. We would do horribly childish and vengeful things to one another constantly including breaking or throwing out each others possessions and sabotaging each others external relationships with friends. We'd constantly be stabbing each other with our private problems, me bringing up some private issues she had, her doing the same to me. The marriage had to end somehow, there was a lot of garbage that there was just no coming back from - things that are probably more emotionally damaging than an affair, at least in my view. But I was addicted to it, as was she.

 

I guess if people don't understand what it's like to be sick enough to allow yourself to be stuck in that situation there's nothing I can say to explain it. Being much healthier now, I look back on how I acted towards my ex (not talking about just the affair) and I'm completely ashamed. I treated her horribly, but it wasn't just a one way street, she gave as well as she got. There is no way today that I would ever stay in that kind of a relationship, not for a moment. But when you're unhealthy mentally, you kind of cling to that type of poison for whatever reason. I didn't respect myself at all, and couldn't give any either - and this was all long before the affair. When I met my current wife she could see what was going on and didn't offer a rosy paradise to escape to or anything, she was just someone that would listen to my problems and help me in small ways to become a strong enough person to be the one to end my marriage, and I did the same for her. In the process we fell in love with each other. I wish no ill will at all towards my ex and am very sorry for the pain I caused her for so long, but we were just never really meant to be together. Looking back I can easily see that neither one of us loved each other the right way, but we both fed that ugliness inside of each other and it became an addiction.

 

Edit - You know, thinking back on it... I have far, far greater regrets about all the other things I did to my ex than the affair. This isn't to say the affair was right because it most certainly was not. But just some of the things I did to her emotionally, long before the affair, were really quite shameful. And if she has become a healthy person now (which I honestly hope she has), I'm sure she would say exactly the same thing about the stuff she did to me.

Edited April 12, 2012 by MoneyWorld