joystickd Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 This proves the first post of mine here. Men simply don't care about women and relationships like men care about men and relationships. This contributes to the issue way more than anything a woman could have done. but he said one thing you hate to acknowledge that most men are not trying to get laid
Untouchable_Fire Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Stats lol Sometimes they are not a true indicator of what really going on. Its neck and neck with cheating. If you really want to get into a who does what argument then be my guest. I think it would be more interesting to look at WHO is getting cheated on. Just from my experience looking around... guys who are extreme jerks and guys who are extremely nice are both big targets. Women it's probably a crapshoot, but I would bet the more independent the woman the more likely the guy is to cheat.
phineas Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Sure. It's easier to get a less undesirable woman as well. Define undesirable. I know lots of HOT women that are total train wrecks emotionally. Their not suitable for long-term and never will be because their selfish, clingy, insecure & yet put themselves on a pedestal. They chase any man they get with away because while they are attractive, their just complete total bishes and want everything their way. Compromise isn't in their vocabulary. any man they consider good enough for them has other options & will explore them in a heart beat when presented with poor behavior from a woman.
RedRobin Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Women it's probably a crapshoot, but I would bet the more independent the woman the more likely the guy is to cheat. I agree. Cheating is a form of revenge for guys who are insecure in their manhood and have problems communicating with their SO. For these men, they need to be seen as 'winning' in the relationship at all costs. Yep. Or, they cheat to 'test' the woman to see how much she really needs him emotionally, because they view her independence as a challenge that must be countered with transgressive behavior of his own. Got it.
ThaWholigan Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Lots of assumptions about men in general being made here with only personal experiences to back them up. I would assume should men do the same most of the same women would be up in arms. Let's not get inflammatory here and realize that much of these comments are purely subjective to ones experiences. Lots of men want commitment too, and that it is not just because it's an easy route to sex, because there isn't even a guarantee that it is an easy route.
somedude81 Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I agree. Cheating is a form of revenge for guys who are insecure in their manhood and have problems communicating with their SO. For these men, they need to be seen as 'winning' in the relationship at all costs. Yep. Or, they cheat to 'test' the woman to see how much she really needs him emotionally, because they view her independence as a challenge that must be countered with transgressive behavior of his own. Got it. So why do you think women cheat?
dasein Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 The men who want commitment are the men women don't really want. The men women really want are the ones who don't want to commit. Simple really. This is it in a nutshell, when women say "men," most of them mean "top 5% men," those men have more women than they can handle, so they have no reason to commit to a woman who isn't bringing lots to the table. Most women IME significantly overestimate their value in the dating and relationship markets because, "hey, that 6 ft model with an MD guy was willing to sleep with me, that must mean I can get that level of man to commit to me." Sorry, no, unless you happen to be a model with an MD yourself. Have been the 95% and the 5% both, many time in life over the years, due to various reasons, the difference in treatment by women is absolutely striking. Some folks complain of being invisible. When you are an average guy, or give the appearance as one, though, there is an actual contempt and derisive attitude one gets from women on a daily basis, as if you are violating some ordinance by breathing their air. IME, men do not do this to women they feel are beneath them in desirability. Men generally don't do this, and do not overestimate their value in the dating pool to the extent women do. Everyone knows "that guy" who is fat, lazy, not smart, not accomplished and broke, who only wants to date hotties, but that is the talking point exception, far from the norm. 1
Untouchable_Fire Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I agree. Cheating is a form of revenge for guys who are insecure in their manhood and have problems communicating with their SO. For these men, they need to be seen as 'winning' in the relationship at all costs. Yep. Or, they cheat to 'test' the woman to see how much she really needs him emotionally, because they view her independence as a challenge that must be countered with transgressive behavior of his own. Got it. The less she needs you... the less you feel required worry about hurting her, the more free time you can apply to cheating. So why do you think women cheat? My guess... #1 reason... Attention
Woggle Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 No they don't. Men want sex and if relationship is the way to get it, then they go for relationships. Very few men actually want love and relationships, not the young and attractive ones anyway. It's not until most of their friends are paired up that they start thinking about relationships. This is simply not true. Many men want love and relationships but they tend to take a very pragmatic approach to things. I know this sounds hypocritical coming from me but you can't stereotype all men like that.
verhrzn Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Because guys expect a perfect woman. They'll only commit to that magical Perfect Girl, because they see relationships as worthless unless they're perfect. Single guys in my generation (I'm 26) are also a**holes, and I've just about had it expecting otherwise. They prove me wrong every time.
dasein Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Because guys expect a perfect woman. They'll only commit to that magical Perfect Girl, because they see relationships as worthless unless they're perfect. Wrong IME, in fact the reverse is true. Women gauge their willingness to get involved with a guy based on "the best prospect they have ever had." Men OTOH gauge their willingness to get involved with a woman based on "what can I get now? and what are the level of my options commited vs. single," that's a very different kind of analysis. 2
somedude81 Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 My guess... #1 reason... Attention So that means her current partner isn't giving her attention. Or does she want new attention?
verhrzn Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Wrong IME, in fact the reverse is true. Women gauge their willingness to get involved with a guy based on "the best prospect they have ever had." Men OTOH gauge their willingness to get involved with a woman based on "what can I get now? and what are the level of my options commited vs. single," that's a very different kind of analysis. I could maybe entertain that position, if I hadn't just read this thread. I admit, it made me very upset. I've blamed my looks, and posters have blamed my personality, for my problems with men... The OP doesn't seem to have anything wrong with her, and yet she's gonna get dumped because she's not "the right girl." And it's getting done in a cruel, manipulative way IMO. It's made me really despair that it's possible to get and keep a relationship if you're not somehow this Perfect Girl.
Ninjainpajamas Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 This proves the first post of mine here. Men simply don't care about women and relationships like men care about men and relationships. This contributes to the issue way more than anything a woman could have done. Right...because women won't throw their vaginas at a "hot guy" just for the sake of having sex...but the "average guy" is supposed to worship you for it because he can't pull the "hot guy" exception card to the rule, and must engage into a relationship. When a woman just wants to have "fun", its ok, everything is fine and appropriate because she has the "right" to. When man wants to have fun, there's no such thing, he needs to make a commitment and anything he does beyond that is misleading and using you. Women want to be able to dictate when they want something and when they do not, and expect men to accommodate to that regardless of what they want and how they feel...men really have no say so, they're forcefully pulled into the ambitions of a woman because she will think she is selling a microwave but pull up to your house with a refrigerator and you're looking down at the receipt like wtf is this? and she's like what? you don't want this refrigerator? ::flashes vagina:: oh ummm ok, well umm just put that in the kitchen then! 4
kaylan Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Plenty of men out there want committed relationship. You either havent found them or the guys you go after dont want you for a relationship ladies. And lets not forget that plenty of women in their 20s are just out "having fun" as well. Ive had girls who would hook up with me and obviously did not see me as commitment potential. It happens. Fvk this double standard of dogging men when they want sex and not a relationship. Women do the same exact thing and guys get told to "man up" if they get used for sex..apparently were supposed to be happy with getting laid despite our emotions getting messed with..but guess what? That sh!!t fvking hurts when you really like a girl. Its what caused me to join this site. /thread Edited March 18, 2012 by kaylan 2
dasein Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I could maybe entertain that position, if I hadn't just read this thread. I admit, it made me very upset. I've blamed my looks, and posters have blamed my personality, for my problems with men... The OP doesn't seem to have anything wrong with her, and yet she's gonna get dumped because she's not "the right girl." And it's getting done in a cruel, manipulative way IMO. It's made me really despair that it's possible to get and keep a relationship if you're not somehow this Perfect Girl. We certainly don't know all the facts in that thread. The facts we do have bear out my position though, as the guy in that thread has simply applied the analysis I described previously, "what level of options do I have single v in a relationship now?" I don't see anything in that thread even suggesting that the guy is an a-hole. He dated someone for 7 months and is now expressing doubts directly to the OP. People have a right to do that. 90%+ of all relationships end before marriage or significant LT commitment. An a-hole would be cheating, lying about it, using that OP in other ways, stirring drama to incite OP to be the bad guy and break up, etc. He isn't doing that or similar. All too often, men get branded as a-holes simply because we refuse to do everything a particular woman wants us to do, we refuse to comply with every plank in her agenda. This is unfair, guys don't generally call a woman a "bitch" merely because she doesn't do everything he wants her to. LOL, neither I nor any honest man in this thread will be able to describe many relationships they've had where the woman did EVEN A FRACTION of what he wanted her to do. My parents have been married nearly 50 years, for example. My mother does what she wants to do ALWAYS within the constraints of her character. My dad does... what she wants... or risks manipulation, not specifically by her branding him a-hole, but in a host of other ways. In that thread OP starts out as FWB, which despite that the guy moves towards dating, signals doom from the start 99% of the time. I don't think that thread is a good, reasonable place to hang the position you are stating.
joystickd Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I could maybe entertain that position, if I hadn't just read this thread. I admit, it made me very upset. I've blamed my looks, and posters have blamed my personality, for my problems with men... The OP doesn't seem to have anything wrong with her, and yet she's gonna get dumped because she's not "the right girl." And it's getting done in a cruel, manipulative way IMO. It's made me really despair that it's possible to get and keep a relationship if you're not somehow this Perfect Girl. It is your personality. There's someone out there for you. You can't let a thread have you feeling like why even try. Its like a man reading sperm wars and thinking why even when she will cheat. People are different and he didn't commit to HER. That doesn't mean he won't ever commit to a woman. That's another thing women have to get men not committing to you doesn't mean he is afraid of commitment.
RedRobin Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 So why do you think women cheat? I was responding to why men might cheat on an independent woman moreso than others. IMHO, any kind of dishonest behavior, done so willfully and with full knowledge it will hurt the other person can be for many reasons... I'm describing 'cheating' in many forms. Not just sexual. Some people don't have a capacity for empathy, or are positioned somewhere on a continuum of lack of care for other people due to situational, historic, or genetic predispositions. Others are just conflict avoiders and don't have the courage to confront their partner or leave when things get really bad.
Jane2011 Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 The men I've known reasonably well in the past couple years range in age from 20 to 45 or so. They've all wanted an exclusive, committed relationship; they're just waiting for the right woman for them. If you get sex fairly easily, some people assume you "have it made" and start thinking in terms of "why do I need a relationship?" But I think more people who get sex easily think just the opposite -- that is, "Okay, this is getting old. I want a relationship. I want someone I can bond and connect with." I suppose there are men out there who are very averse to commitment no matter what, but I think the men I tend to socialize with are the other kind (even my relative "sleazy" guys are not that sleazy, sex-seeking-wise).
dasein Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Wrong IME, in fact the reverse is true. Women gauge their willingness to get involved with a guy based on "the best prospect they have ever had." Men OTOH gauge their willingness to get involved with a woman based on "what can I get now? and what are the level of my options commited vs. single," that's a very different kind of analysis. Wanted to add to and clarify that, IME women gauge their willingness to get involved with a guy based on "the best prospect they have ever had," and then throw that analysis right out the window in an irrational, emotional calculus of getting caught up in the moment when the right buttons are pressed. So they become vulnerable to smooth macks and invulnerable to sincere men on their level in the same breath, almost guaranteeing relationship unhappiness until they lower the "mating" standard or raise the "what the hell in the moment" standard or both.
verhrzn Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 It is your personality. There's someone out there for you. You can't let a thread have you feeling like why even try. Its like a man reading sperm wars and thinking why even when she will cheat. People are different and he didn't commit to HER. That doesn't mean he won't ever commit to a woman. That's another thing women have to get men not committing to you doesn't mean he is afraid of commitment. Except this thread is all about how men AREN'T committing. So what message does that send... that all of us women are trash? Single guys don't seem to want to commit to ANYONE except the "perfect" girl. Which means if you aren't some mysterious definition of "perfect," you're out of luck. It just always strikes me as suspicious and hollow when guys claim they totally want a relationship, but only for the "right" girl. It's like the lazy person at the office who says he really is a hard worker, but only when he's found the perfect job.
Woggle Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Except this thread is all about how men AREN'T committing. So what message does that send... that all of us women are trash? Single guys don't seem to want to commit to ANYONE except the "perfect" girl. Which means if you aren't some mysterious definition of "perfect," you're out of luck. It just always strikes me as suspicious and hollow when guys claim they totally want a relationship, but only for the "right" girl. It's like the lazy person at the office who says he really is a hard worker, but only when he's found the perfect job. Isn't this just the male version of the never settle mentality some women have? Both genders do this.
dasein Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 It just always strikes me as suspicious and hollow when guys claim they totally want a relationship, but only for the "right" girl. It's like the lazy person at the office who says he really is a hard worker, but only when he's found the perfect job. It strikes me as very unwise the ease with which people commit to others and enter exclusive relationships today, often hopping from R to R without learning a thing or changing bad behavior. It's like the alky at the office who comes to work on Monday lamenting "I'm never going to drink again in my life."
ThaWholigan Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 The direction of this thread is so predictable! I find it astounding and laughable how it always turns out to be the man's fault . 1
joystickd Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 This is it in a nutshell, when women say "men," most of them mean "top 5% men," those men have more women than they can handle, so they have no reason to commit to a woman who isn't bringing lots to the table. Most women IME significantly overestimate their value in the dating and relationship markets because, "hey, that 6 ft model with an MD guy was willing to sleep with me, that must mean I can get that level of man to commit to me." Sorry, no, unless you happen to be a model with an MD yourself. Have been the 95% and the 5% both, many time in life over the years, due to various reasons, the difference in treatment by women is absolutely striking. Some folks complain of being invisible. When you are an average guy, or give the appearance as one, though, there is an actual contempt and derisive attitude one gets from women on a daily basis, as if you are violating some ordinance by breathing their air. IME, men do not do this to women they feel are beneath them in desirability. Men generally don't do this, and do not overestimate their value in the dating pool to the extent women do. Everyone knows "that guy" who is fat, lazy, not smart, not accomplished and broke, who only wants to date hotties, but that is the talking point exception, far from the norm. That is 100% true. You see average women that want these put together men that at most only want a sexual encounter. When I say average I don't mean in looks because there are women that look good but do average things. Threads like this only acknowledge a point I heard a long time ago that really men are the prize in dating.
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