Could you deal with your sister/daughter/female friend converting to Islam?

[Oxy Moronovich]

Romans were somewhat tolerant towards other religions, it's just that Christianity was monotheist ... made it simpler to propagate and it became a problem of power.

I wasn't talking about why they were persecuted. I was just pointing out that they were persecuted by the wonderfully tolerant Romans.

[Stupid Girl]

I was so shocked and disgusted when I read the title of this thread, I didn't even want to click it for fear of the rage it would incite in me. I'm from a large, liberal city filled with many races and cultures, so I've grown up in such a way that I don't judge or discern religions that are other than that which "our country was founded upon" simply because I ACCEPT everyone is different, and I think the variety makes the world a better place. However I also know a lot of the US is unfortunately not like this, so it made me angry to see such an ignorant thread had so many replies, which I assumed would be just as ignorant. But I'm glad I clicked, as I was glad to see a lot of them were from intelligent and well-informed people. So thank you, intelligent, well-informed people, for helping me keep my faith in humanity

 

Here is my life experience, in a nutshell:

 

1) When I was in high school, I voluntarily became a Christian, I guess because I was a weirdo who wanted to distance myself from the drinking/drugging/partying scene, which didn't interest me at the time. The number of horrible experiecnes I've had with Christians is countless, but here's one that really stands out; one of my friends at church suffered the loss of her father at age 16. Her father was not a Christian. In response to this, the following Sunday, our pastor spoke a sermon about how my friend's father's death was a wakeup call for all of us to take Christianity more seriously - that he was now in hell, and that's where we would be going if we didn't submit, etc.

 

Needless to say, I didn't stay Christian much longer after that. But the really disgusting part, I thought, was a lot of my church "friends" compeltely agreed with him. Also needless to say, none of these people are my friends anymore.

 

2) I have a good muslim friend at work who has family in New York, and she invited me to join her there visiting them because I wanted to see NYC. As a little athiest while girl, I was a little nervous that I was going to feel out of place with a bunch of people with a completely different religion from what is "accepted" in the US. But when I got there...I can't even tell you what an amazinfg experience I had. These were some of the friendliest people I had ever met; I felt more at home, and more like I was with family, than I had felt in my YEARS of going to a church filled with people of the same race/culture/religion as I was. They didn't care I was white, single, and had no religion. They treated me with complete respect, never trying to force anything on me, even subtly.

 

Not to say that all Christians are terrible, or all Muslims are amazing, of course - that would just be silly. But the ignorant western propaganda that Islam is deficient and Christianity is "the way things are meant to be" is the most ridiculous lie of our generation. Extremists of any religion are terrible people. But despite what the conveniently consored western media tells you, the extremists are not predomintly Muslim...historically, and up to today, the worst, most evil, and most violent crimes against humanity have been the result of Christianity. The end

[justpassingthrough]

I've lived in Egypt for four years now, and trust me if my sister or daughter considered "converting" to Islam I would certainly encourage them to come and live with me and then make her decision.

 

Over this four years, I've watched dozens of western women who've "converted" and married Muslim men, only to end up heartbroken, damaged, and no longer Muslim. Sure, maybe they've read the book, but they don't fully understand how to play the game (i.e., make his life as expensive as possible so he can't afford to marry another, etc.). Quite sad, actually.

[JustJoe]

Simpler to understand.

You have a point, Radu, but I think other reasons for the persecution of Christians was their evangelical nature, and their seeming to place their own leaders above Caesar.

[Taramere]

With regard to somebody reacting fearfully to a female friend/relative converting to Islam, I'd want to know whether the particular circumstances rendered their fear a rational one. People can point to their friends, neighbours, colleagues etc practising Islam, and cite these as examples of it being no more dangerous and violent - or possibly less so - than Christianity. Politically correct generalisations and pieces of anecdotal evidence aren't necessarily helpful, however, in deciding whether you should be concerned about your daughter/sister/mother/niece converting to Islam.

 

I don't see how anybody can predict, without a lot more information about the particular situation, whether it would be rational or irrational to worry about a female friend/relative converting to Islam. You'd have to find out why she was doing it, whether there was an element of wanting to please somebody who was a strict adherent to the religion (with all the potential for fall out once the friendship/romance loses its sheen) and whether she was going to place herself in circumstances where breaching Sharia law or turning against the faith was likely to place her at serious risk.

[Radu]

You have a point, Radu, but I think other reasons for the persecution of Christians was their evangelical nature, and their seeming to place their own leaders above Caesar.

 

Which still happened untill just a few hundred yrs ago, and in some countries political leaders drape themselves in belief capes while secretely being hypochrites [gingrich ?].

 

What it boils down to, is fear of something you don't understand.

The ppl at the top, all they need to do is to tell us to be afraid of the 'unusual' while others at the bottom try to put themselves between your God and you to get more power to get to the top [one way to get there].

[Oxy Moronovich]

I think Islam is garbage based on my personal experiences with Muslims, not based on what politicians say.

[aj22one]

I think Islam is garbage based on my personal experiences with Muslims, not based on what politicians say.

 

It's good to base your opinion on first hand knowledge and experience. My first hand experience leads me to a different conclusion on Islam however. As it has with others I'm sure.

[BetheButterfly]

I've lived in Egypt for four years now, and trust me if my sister or daughter considered "converting" to Islam I would certainly encourage them to come and live with me and then make her decision.

 

Over this four years, I've watched dozens of western women who've "converted" and married Muslim men, only to end up heartbroken, damaged, and no longer Muslim. Sure, maybe they've read the book, but they don't fully understand how to play the game (i.e., make his life as expensive as possible so he can't afford to marry another, etc.). Quite sad, actually.

 

One of my friends is experiencing something similar right now, though she and her husband live in the USA. She got married to a Muslim man who was actually quite liberal, but he changed. She has a difficult time. She has never "reverted" to Islam, but according to Islam (and Muslim scholars differ as to if Christians nowadays count) Muslim men can marry Christian and Jewish women, but Muslim women, according to Islam, cannot marry non Muslim men (though a relatively few do).

 

Anyways, I think some of the qualities that attract many Western women to Muslim men in the Middle East are the following:

 

1. Desire for love - sad to say, there are many men of whatever belief (theists and atheists) who just don't pay some women attention. One of my husband's friends is a man from Egypt, raised in a Christian family. He says that he thinks many Western women who are not accepted by Western men turn to Middle Eastern men for the love and attention they need.

 

2. Modesty and purity - sad to say, there are many Western men who do not stress either modesty or sexual purity. This greatly upsets some (though definitely not all or even most anymore) of Western women who yearn for being accepted and desired without showing most of their bodies, and without having many sexual partners. My Muslim friends are good people who are very modest and desire sexual purity. Even though I don't agree with all of their beliefs, I very much admire my Muslim friends who strive to dress and live in the way they think is best.

 

3. Desire for family - sad to say, many Western men no longer seem to want to marry, or are very picky about who they marry. However, many Middle Eastern men (who are not just Muslim) tend to have the mentality to get married someday. For many Muslims, marriage is actually considered part of the deen, of living an Islamic life.

 

I am sure there are other reasons too, including meeting handsome, intelligent Muslim men who sweep them off their feet, same like how I met my husband, intelligent Christian man who is now my husband!

 

Anyways, I hope that the ladies who are brokenhearted, no matter what their belief or why they believe(d) it, heal and find true love!

[BetheButterfly]

I think Islam is garbage based on my personal experiences with Muslims, not based on what politicians say.

 

Even though I'm sure this is what you personally think about Islam, I don't think it is at all polite or caring to express such a thought.

 

I personally do not believe that Islam is what you think. I have Muslim friends who I believe truly love God how they believe is true. I don't agree with them, but I do acknowledge that they have reasons for believing what they believe, and it is their right to believe it, and just as I would not want someone to insult what I believe, so I should not insult what they believe. Just because I believe differently does not mean that what others believe is garbage, no! That is very rude, and is also untrue, because to the sincere Muslims, what they believe is very precious. As a Christian, I consider what I believe to be precious, regardless of if somebody else thinks what I believe is trash.

 

So, I would like to ask you to please consider that... that even if you don't agree with what they believe, that doesn't mean what they believe is what you said.

[taiko]

She has never "reverted" to Islam, but according to Islam (and Muslim scholars differ as to if Christians nowadays count) Muslim men can marry Christian and Jewish women, but Muslim women, according to Islam, cannot marry non Muslim men (though a relatively few do).

 

It is based upon the man being the spiritual head of the family. So if a woman marries a non-Muslim she will follow the leader away from the faith. It is a step further then the newer Catholic standard where she must promise to remain Catholic and do her best to see that children are baptized and raised Catholic. Many still think the old standard applies where the non-Catholic must promise to raise children as Catholics, instead of just being told of the Catholics responsibility to do their best on that account.