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Could you deal with your sister/daughter/female friend converting to Islam?

gaius

By gaius
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zengirl Established Member

zengirl

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Hello again Zengirl :)

 

I think many religions are misunderstood. Religions have interested me for a long time and to me it is interesting to compare the key figures in the religions. When I study the life of Jesus and how he treated women, for example, I did not see a sexist attitude from Jesus toward the women in his life. So, I think that the fundamentalists in Christian beliefs who have been sexist against women did so not based on Jesus' teachings, but on traditions. For example, after Jerusalem was destroyed, the leaders of the Christians shifted to Gentile Christians, most of them being Greek or Roman scholars. In general Greek culture, women were considered property, so I think that cultural traditions tended to stick on people who converted to Christian beliefs.

 

Muhammad, by the way, did actually help improve a bit the Arabic culture's view on women. He did try to help them see that having daughters was a good thing, not a horrible thing, and he did increase in other ways the value of women in his culture. However, sad to say, many people in his culture today continue to treat women as property and continue to prefer boys to girls. Muhammad's marrying of many wives and having female slaves, as well as limiting rights of women did not help, nor did the teaching that in Heaven, 72 beautiful houris await a jihadist help in presenting women as valuable persons instead of sex objects. However, I do have Muslim friends who treat women beautifully. There are Muslims who have only one wife and who treat her with love, kindness, and caring, who respect women and who encourage women to study, to have a brilliant career, and to make a difference in their society. So, it really depends on the individual, same as in Christian beliefs and in Hindu beliefs and in Buddhist beliefs and in Jewish Orthodox beliefs and so on.

 

All very true, the bolded especially. Fundamentalist is more about being "traditionalist" than spiritual, of course, in general. I didn't feel like getting into all the details, but you've written precisely what I meant. ;)

 

And, no, though I'm not Christian, I do not think the figure of Jesus, as he's described in the Bible, is in any way sexist or racist or really at all a bad guy. That is not necessarily true of all people who devote their lives to him, of course; many people have done bad things in Jesus's name, of course. But that should not reflect on all Christians anymore than bad acts should reflect on any other religion totally.

Edited by zengirl
  • Like 1
BetheButterfly Established Member

BetheButterfly

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Posted
I do not think the figure of Jesus, as he's described in the Bible, is in any way sexist or racist or really at all a bad guy. That is not necessarily true of all people who devote their lives to him, of course; many people have done bad things in Jesus's name, of course. But that should not reflect on all Christians anymore than bad acts should reflect on any other religion totally.

 

So true. I totally understand why Gandhi, for example, said ""I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

 

I hope more and more Christians, including myself, will grow in obeying Jesus' commands to love even our enemies, be kind, do good, pray for, and bless others, even those who curse us. I also hope we grow more in helping those in need and in not judging others, which are also important commands Jesus gave his followers.

Ariadne Established Member

Ariadne

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Posted

 

I am a Christian. I am not a Muslim. I believe that Muhammad is one of the false prophets that Jesus prophesied would come into the world and deceive many, so yes, it would sadden me if a person went astray, due to any false prophet.

 

Matthew 24 (NIV) - I boldened some.

 

"3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[Daniel 9:27; 11:31; 12:11] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time."

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus is indeed the Messiah (which means Anointed One), was born of the virgin Mary, did miracles, and taught the people. He did ascend into Heaven and will come back. However, Muslims believe that Jesus did not truly die on the cross. They also believe that Jewish people and Christians corrupted the Tanakh and the injil (gospel). Jesus, however, did die on the cross, which fulfills many prophesies concerning him (see Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53) and Jesus did not teach that the Scripture was corrupted no, but rather that he fulfills the Scripture.

 

Matthew 5 (NIV) - I boldened some of the words of Jesus:

 

"7 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

 

 

 

As you can see above, there are many other crucial differences, including the command Jesus taught to love one's enemies.

 

 

I have read much of the Quran, and it is contradicts in many ways the Bible, both the Tanakh (the Jewish Scriptures) and the New Testament.

 

 

 

Many Muslims take very seriously the punishment for apostates. I would encourage you to study how exMuslims live, and you will see that many no longer go to Muslim dominated countries, because they know their lives are in danger there. I would also encourage you to study the life of Muhammad, and what he said and did to people who were Muslims but then left his group.

 

 

 

I thank God that Jesus did not command his followers to kill those who no longer follow him. Why do you think Jesus did not command this?

 

Discouraging people from leaving a belief through threat of violence against them is just controlling by fear. Christian beliefs are not based on fear, but are based on the love of God for everyone, including sinners and including people that other people condemn.

 

1 John 4 (NIV) - I boldened some.

 

"7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. 13 This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister."

You have been veiled by Allah.

 

Allah chooses who is going to convert to Islam:

 

"And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. Those are upon

guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment." (Holy Quran 2:4-7)

 

Yes, Jesus said that there will come false prophets, but Muhammad is not a false prophet. He wrote the Holy Quran as received by Angel Gabriel.

 

The Quran mentions at least three main Islamic scriptures which came before the Quran: The Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel. As well as the Scrolls of Abraham and Moses.

 

But they consider the Quran to be the only uncorrupted text as originally created. And one of the requirements of faith to be a Muslim is to believe in all the scriptures.

 

But then, Allah says in Quran: Closest to Muslims are the one who say we are Christians.

Ariadne Established Member

Ariadne

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If any of you are interested in learning more about Islam, you can watch this movie called:

 

The Message - A Film On The Life Of Holy Prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H)

sally4sara Established Member

sally4sara

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To all the people who are saying that many horrible things were done in the past in the name of Jesus. Remember that the key word is the past. No that doesn't mean that they are excused, but it means that it stopped happening.

 

While atrocities are still being committed in Muhammad's name.

 

All religions, especially the Abrahamic ones (mainly christianity, judaism, and islamic) are still behind many horrible acts to this very day. You only think of christianity as better because you've been exposed to it more and comfortable with its dogma over others. It doesn't mean anyone practicing a religion is a violent zealot, but you're blind and living under a rock if you think all christians are kind or peaceful.

BetheButterfly Established Member

BetheButterfly

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You have been veiled by Allah.

 

Allah chooses who is going to convert to Islam:

 

"And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. Those are upon

guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment." (Holy Quran 2:4-7)

 

Ariadne,

 

I am curious. Is there a Muslim guy who you like?

 

Concerning your statement, I have studied Islam, and I understand why Jewish Orthodox people as well as Christians who are led by God's Holy Spirit and have studied the Tanakh and the New Testament, do not accept Muhammad's claims.

Yes, Jesus said that there will come false prophets, but Muhammad is not a false prophet. He wrote the Holy Quran as received by Angel Gabriel.

Ariadne,

 

Muhammad did not write the Quran. Why? Because he did not know how to read or write. Sad to say, Muhammad did not ever read the Tanakh or the New Testament, though he heard of them from Jewish people and Christians in Arabia at that time.

 

The Quran mentions at least three main Islamic scriptures which came before the Quran: The Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel. As well as the Scrolls of Abraham and Moses.
Did you know that most Muslims believe that Jewish people corrupted their Scriptures and that Christians corrupted the Injil (the gospel)? Please ask them. Jewish Orthodox people believe however that God protected His Holy Scriptures. Jesus, a practicing Jewish person who obeyed the commands God gave to the children of Israel (Jesus was an Israelite too - of the tribe of Judah, a son of Israel/Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham) did not say that the Tanakh, the Scriptures, were corrupted. Rather, he quoted from the Scriptures and he claimed to fulfill them, although Jewish Orthodox people do not believe that he actually fulfilled them. However, Muhammad claims that the Scriptures before were corrupted, which is contradictory to Jesus' claim that he fulfills the Scriptures.

 

But they consider the Quran to be the only uncorrupted text as originally created. And one of the requirements of faith to be a Muslim is to believe in all the scriptures.
Ask Muslims if they believe what the Tanakh and the New Testament says. Do you not understand how suspect it is for one man to claim the Scriptures were corrupted and that he only is the source of the uncorrupted Word of God? Remember, Jesus did not claim that the Scriptures were corrupted. Rather, Jesus claimed that he fulfills the Scriptures. Christians do not believe that God allowed either the Tanakh or the New Testament to be corrupted.

But then, Allah says in Quran: Closest to Muslims are the one who say we are Christians.

Please ask Muslims why later on, Christians and Jewish people were expelled from Arabia? Thank you
  • Like 1
BetheButterfly Established Member

BetheButterfly

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All religions, especially the Abrahamic ones (mainly christianity, judaism, and islamic) are still behind many horrible acts to this very day. You only think of christianity as better because you've been exposed to it more and comfortable with its dogma over others. It doesn't mean anyone practicing a religion is a violent zealot, but you're blind and living under a rock if you think all christians are kind or peaceful.

 

Hello Sally4Sara,

 

Sad to say, Christians who are not kind do not obey Jesus' teachings. Peaceful, by the way, does not include being a doormat and ignoring bloodshed, rudeness, or injustice. There are many Christians who are kind and peaceful, who actively help the community through medical help, such as the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, and many charitable organizations dedicated to helping others, such as the YMCA and hospitals. Some Christians are known for their kindness and for helping those in need, as well as taking a stand against injustice.

Ariadne Established Member

Ariadne

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I am curious. Is there a Muslim guy who you like?

 

Salaam BtB,

 

No, in fact the guy that I am in love with is Buddhist. I guess it's not much of a problem since he has not shown romantic interest.

 

The only reason I converted to Islam was because the Holy Quran spoke to my heart as the world of God and truth, and I felt it was my duty to God to take the Shahada (proclamation of faith).

 

I understand why Jewish Orthodox people as well as Christians who are led by God's Holy Spirit and have studied the Tanakh and the New Testament, do not accept Muhammad's claims.
Neither did the Jewish people accept Jesus.

 

Please ask Muslims why later on, Christians and Jewish people were expelled from Arabia? Thank you
There are Jews and Christians living in all the Middle East. There are about 20 thousand Jews living in Iran at the moment in peace.
sally4sara Established Member

sally4sara

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Hello Sally4Sara,

 

Sad to say, Christians who are not kind do not obey Jesus' teachings. Peaceful, by the way, does not include being a doormat and ignoring bloodshed, rudeness, or injustice. There are many Christians who are kind and peaceful, who actively help the community through medical help, such as the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, and many charitable organizations dedicated to helping others, such as the YMCA and hospitals. Some Christians are known for their kindness and for helping those in need, as well as taking a stand against injustice.

 

The Salvation Army's CEO earned over $600,000 dollars before benefits and bonuses last year - that's some "charity" for ya!

 

And the Salvation Army gave quite a bit of its donations, not to people in need, but to lobby against same sex marriage and attempts to overturn equal labor laws so they could discriminate against applicants who were gay or non christian.

 

You might want to check who you promote and what you believe.

  • Like 1
sally4sara Established Member

sally4sara

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Its the Red Cross CEO that earned the butt load of loot, not the Salvation Army's. Sry bout that.

Ariadne Established Member

Ariadne

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I want to share with those interested, a Hadith (saying) on what Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) answered when he was asked about this life and the Hereafter by a Bedouin. Enjoy.

BetheButterfly Established Member

BetheButterfly

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Salaam BtB,

 

No, in fact the guy that I am in love with is Buddhist. I guess it's not much of a problem since he has not shown romantic interest.

 

Do you understand and ascribe to Muslim beliefs concerning dating and marriage? Most Muslims do not believe in falling in love or dating before marriage. Also, Muslim women are not supposed to fall in love with or marry any man except for a Muslim man.

 

The only reason I converted to Islam was because the Holy Quran spoke to my heart as the world of God and truth, and I felt it was my duty to God to take the Shahada (proclamation of faith).

 

People do many different things based on feelings.

 

Neither did the Jewish people accept Jesus.

 

The apostles Jesus chose, who walked and talked with him, are all Jewish, as well as his disciples, both men and women, including his mother Mary. In Acts 2, after the apostles received the Holy Spirit, like Jesus promised, Peter taught many Jewish people about Jesus, and about 3,000 Jewish people accepted Jesus. Although many were killed, all throughout history since that moment, there have been Jewish people who accepted Jesus.

There are Jews and Christians living in all the Middle East.

 

Jewish people fled to many parts of the world after Rome destroyed Jerusalem. However, many of them moved to Israel after Israel was re-instated. Most of the Christians living in the Middle East have come from families that traditionally have been Christian. Did you know that apostacy is considered a crime worthy of death in Islam? Sadly, there are many people in Muslim-dominated countries who are trapped into Islam, whether they believe or not. There are many Muslims who are just Muslim by tradition because of this, because they do not want to die. There are also secret Atheists, Christians, and exMuslims who do not publicly declare their beliefs, because they don't want to die. Thank God that now in Europe and the USA, people have freedom of religion where if they do not believe any longer, they do not have to fear death by people who force religion on them. Freedom of religion is in line actually with Jesus' teaching, because Jesus did not teach his disciples to kill exfollowers of Jesus, but rather had them focus on their own beliefs in him.

 

There are about 20 thousand Jews living in Iran at the moment in peace.

 

Did you know that there used to be around 100 thousands Jews living in Iran in 1948? Many Jewish people left because of persecution. :( It is very sad. As you read this article, you can hopefully see that the Jewish people living in Iran, most who were born there and whose parents and grandparents were born there, are cut off from other Jewish people, especially those in Israel. I boldened some of the injustices and lack of freedom these Jewish people face.

 

Jews of Iran

 

"

1948 Jewish population: 100,000

2004: ~20,000-25,0001

 

The Jewish community of Persia, modern-day Iran, is one of the oldest in the Diaspora, and its historical roots reach back to the 6th century B.C.E., the time of the First Temple. Their history in the pre-Islamic period is intertwined with that of the Jews of neighboring Babylon. Cyrus, the first of the Archemid dynasty, conquered Babylon in 539 B.C.E. and permitted the Jewish exiles to return to the Land of Israel, bringing the First Exile to an end. The Jewish colonies were scattered from centers in Babylon to Persian provinces and cities such as Hamadan and Susa. The books of Esther, Ezra, Nehemiah, and Daniel give a favorable description of the relationship of the Jews to the court of the Achaemids at Susa.

Under the Sassanid dynasty (226-642 C.E.), the Jewish population in Persia grew considerably and spread throughout the region; nevertheless, Jews suffered intermittent oppression and persecution. The invasion by Arab Muslims in 642 C.E. terminated the independence of Persia, installed Islam as the state religion, and made a deep impact on the Jews by changing their sociopolitical status.

Throughout the 19th century, Jews were persecuted and discriminated against. Sometimes whole communities were forced to convert. During the 19th century, there was considerable emigration to the Land of Israel, and the Zionist movement spread throughout the community.

Under the Phalevi Dynasty, established in 1925, the country was secularized and oriented toward the West. This greatly benefited the Jews, who were emancipated and played an important role in the economy and in cultural life. On the eve of the Islamic Revolution in 1979, 80,000 Jews lived in Iran. In the wake of the upheaval, tens of thousands of Jews, especially the wealthy, left the country, leaving behind vast amounts of property.

The Council of the Jewish Community, which was established after World War II, is the representative body of the community. The Jews also have a representative in parliament who is obligated by law to support Iranian foreign policy and its Anti-Zionist position.

Despite the official distinction between "Jews," "Zionists," and "Israel," the most common accusation the Jews encounter is that of maintaining contacts with Zionists. The Jewish community does enjoy a measure of religious freedom but is faced with constant suspicion of cooperating with the Zionist state and with "imperialistic America" — both such activities are punishable by death. Jews who apply for a passport to travel abroad must do so in a special bureau and are immediately put under surveillance. The government does not generally allow all members of a family to travel abroad at the same time to prevent Jewish emigration. Again, the Jews live under the status of dhimmi, with the restrictions im posed on religious minorities. Jewish leaders fear government reprisals if they draw attention to official mistreatment of their community.

Iran's official government-controlled media often issues anti-Semitic propaganda. A prime example is the government's publishing of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a notorious Czarist forgery, in 1994 and 1999.2 Jews also suffer varying degrees of officially sanctioned discrimination, particularly in the areas of employment, education, and public accommodations.3

The Islamization of the country has brought about strict control over Jewish educational institutions. Before the revolution, there were some 20 Jewish schools functioning throughout the country. In recent years, most of these have been closed down. In the remaining schools, Jewish principals have been replaced by Muslims. In Tehran there are still three schools in which Jewish pupils constitute a majority. The curriculum is Islamic, and Persian is forbidden as the language of instruction for Jewish studies. Special Hebrew lessons are conducted on Fridays by the Orthodox Otzar ha-Torah organization, which is responsible for Jewish religious education. Saturday is no longer officially recognized as the Jewish sabbath, and Jewish pupils are compelled to attend school on that day. There are three synagogues in Tehran, but since 1994, there has been no rabbi in Iran, and the bet din does not function. 4

Following the overthrow of the shah and the declaration of an Islamic state in 1979, Iran severed relations with Israel. The country has subsequently supported many of the Islamic terrorist organizations that target Jews and Israelis, particularly the Lebanon-based, Hezbollah. Nevertheless, Iran's Jewish community is the largest in the Middle East outside Israel.

On the eve of Passover in 1999, 13 Jews from Shiraz and Isfahan in southern Iran were arrested and accused of spying for Israel and the United States. In September 2000, an Iranian appeals court upheld a decision to imprison ten of the thirteen Jews accused of spying for Israel. In the appeals court, ten of the accused were found guilty of cooperating with Israel and were given prison terms ranging from two to nine years. Three of the accused were found innocent in the first trial.5 In March 2001, one of the imprisoned Jews was released, a second was freed in January 2002, the remaining eight were set free in late October 2002. The last five apparently were released on furlough for an indefinite period, leaving them vulnerable to future arrest. Three others were reportedly pardoned by Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.6

At least 13 Jews have been executed in Iran since the Islamic revolution, most of them for either religious reasons or their connection to Israel. For example, in May 1998, Jewish businessman Ruhollah Kakhodah-Zadeh was hanged in prison without a public charge or legal proceeding, apparently for assisting Jews to emigrate.7

Today, Iran's Jewish population is the second largest in the Middle East, after Israel. Reports vary as to the condition and treatment of the small, tight-knit community, and the population of Iranian Jews can only be estimated due to the community’s isolation from world Jewry."

Ariadne Established Member

Ariadne

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Do you understand...

 

Salaam BtB,

 

Yes, I'm quite aware of Islamic marriage rules and I agree 100%.

 

And it's not surprising that Jewish people in the Islamic Republic of Iran are being watched after asking for passports, when Israel has been pushing for war with Iran. It's a tense situation nowadays.

spookie Established Member

spookie

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To me the key word in the question is convert. I question the motives of anyone who would turns their back on their culture, family, and upbringing. In the case of the one muslim convert i know, my roommate who is planning to marry her bf and move to Saudi Arabia, I question her eagerness to give up everything, including her right to drive, to be with a man whose family refuse to acknowledge her very existence, Ina culture which will never fully accept her.

binny Established Member

binny

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As a couple people have mentioned already, it would really depend on motives. I know lots of people, a few of them friends, who converted because they were under pressure to convert by their partners - I believe that people should only convert if they decide to after knowing all the facts and not because someone is pressuring them. One of my friends was actually told by her bf that if she did not convert then he would stop being her bf. Needless to say, she converted.... (in islam, I think it states that a muslim man can marry a non muslim woman but a mulism woman cannot marry a non muslim man)

 

I have lived in a muslim country before and it was by far the hardest thing I have ever had to do. Not because of the religion but because of the culture in the country. I have many muslim friends, even one of my best friends is muslim. I think sometimes people confuse the religion, islam with culture from muslim countries.

Edited by binny
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Ariadne Established Member

Ariadne

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I have lived in a muslim country before and it was by far the hardest thing I have ever had to do...because of the culture

 

Why? What happened?

Star Gazer Established Member

Star Gazer

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So, Christians who kill and hurt others, instead of praying for them, blessing them, doing good to them, and loving them, are not obeying Jesus' teachings.

 

Switch "Christians" out for "Muslims" and "Mohammed" for "Jesus" and it's still true.

Ross MwcFan Established Member

Ross MwcFan

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It would be very hard to remain friends with someone or to like a relative if they're homophobic, think women should be dominated, think animals should be killed cruely without being stunned/anesthetized, etc.

 

As long as someone hasn't been turned into a sick disgusting person by their religion (or are these people already sick and disgusting and religion just gives them an excuse to be that way?), then I don't care what religion they've converted to.

Edited by Ross MwcFan
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BetheButterfly Established Member

BetheButterfly

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Switch "Christians" out for "Muslims" and "Mohammed" for "Jesus" and it's still true.

 

Jesus' teachings are clear.

 

Luke 6 (NIV) - I boldened some of Jesus' teachings below.

 

"27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

 

 

Did Muhammad teach his followers to do the above? Please give references from the Quran. Thanks.

binny Established Member

binny

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Why? What happened?

 

In short, they look down on single western females in those countries. Arab countries have stereotypes of westerners. It was so bad that I bought myself a ring to wear on my marriage finger and say I was married. I couldn't even walk to the shop around the corner by myself without finding someone else to come with me. Even at work they refused to talk to me because I was a western female and therefore "evil and bad". Despite the company having strict discrimination policies.. :rolleyes:

 

I hear Saudi is the worst country to be for a female. You need to have a male gaurdian and aren't allowed to drive. Thankfully, women aren't allowed to work in my profession in Saudi so I'll never have to go there to work (unless the law changes). Some guys at work were briefed before they traveled to Saudi and they warned them that if a Saudi woman is hurt on the street and needs assistance they should not assist her, as they could be prosecuted. In order to assist the Saudi woman in trouble they would need permission from her male gaurdian etc.

 

Some women don't mind living under these circumstances and being locked up in the house, only allowed out when her husband/father/brother say it's OK and always be escorted. However, that lifestyle is not for me.

findingnemo Established Member

findingnemo

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Posted
I know I couldn't. I read Aridane's comments in this thread and I just don't understand why someone would want to convert to a religion where you're supposed to be killed for straying the second time. Not to mention the attitude towards women and the social consequences of being a Muslim in America nowadays. For a female it seems very self destructive to me, like living with an abusive husband almost. I like to think of myself as a tolerant and open minded person but I also think I would blow a gasket if I found out my sister was converting.

 

I can accept one of my siblings converting to any religion as long as it's not fundamentalism or a cult. To be more specific, if my sister married an Arab from UAE, I wouldn't be worried about honor killings and the like. Same goes for Morocco, Tunisia and some more Muslim countries. If on the other hand she was marrying someone from Pakistan, Afghanistan or Iran, I'd want to check out his background. I know several people from these 3 countries who are modern and no where near fundamentalists. But even they check what kind of religion their people are marrying into.

 

Same goes for Christianity. I will NOT accept my sister converting to some cult. Whether I can stop it is a different matter altogether. I can't stand fundamentalists in all forms. They are dangerous for the world. Cnhristian fundamentalists have been kept in check for years but it could be because their countries aren't occupied. But still we have some deadly guys out there willing to do just about anything to get their point across.

Ross MwcFan Established Member

Ross MwcFan

Posted
Posted
In short, they look down on single western females in those countries. Arab countries have stereotypes of westerners. It was so bad that I bought myself a ring to wear on my marriage finger and say I was married. I couldn't even walk to the shop around the corner by myself without finding someone else to come with me. Even at work they refused to talk to me because I was a western female and therefore "evil and bad". Despite the company having strict discrimination policies.. :rolleyes:

 

I hear Saudi is the worst country to be for a female. You need to have a male gaurdian and aren't allowed to drive. Thankfully, women aren't allowed to work in my profession in Saudi so I'll never have to go there to work (unless the law changes). Some guys at work were briefed before they traveled to Saudi and they warned them that if a Saudi woman is hurt on the street and needs assistance they should not assist her, as they could be prosecuted. In order to assist the Saudi woman in trouble they would need permission from her male gaurdian etc.

 

Some women don't mind living under these circumstances and being locked up in the house, only allowed out when her husband/father/brother say it's OK and always be escorted. However, that lifestyle is not for me.

 

Why do they think Westerners are evil and bad? :confused:

taiko Established Member

taiko

Posted
Posted

Because for the most part we don't live in submission to God's will. Most noticable in the alluring dress, as they see it, of western women.

Ross MwcFan Established Member

Ross MwcFan

Posted
Posted (edited)
Because for the most part we don't live in submission to God's will. Most noticable in the alluring dress, as they see it, of western women.

 

Hmmm, just because god says you should do something, or that you should behave in a certain way, doesn't make you bad if you don't do that.

 

Why is it not possible for god to be bad to demand these things?

 

For example, surely if god says that women should be dressed in burkhas, and that they should be punished if they don't wear them, then that makes him bad? And not the women who refuse to dress in such ridiculous repressive clothing which will probably put them in danger of having heat stroke in the summer?

 

****ing disgusting. I feel sorry for these women whenever I see them walking around town in the summer.

Edited by Ross MwcFan
binny Established Member

binny

Posted
Posted
Why do they think Westerners are evil and bad? :confused:

 

Taiko pretty much summed it up. I never wore provocative clothing while I was there, but even when I was in a plain t-shirt in the summer they would tell me it was bad and I should wear a jumper to cover my arms. I've never quite understood how my arms are provocative.. :confused:

 

But it's not just the way we dress, it's the way that males and females interact as well. Men and women talk to each other and are friends, if a woman speaks to a man over there, they think she is trying to have a relationship or something with them. We have mixed schools, classrooms, male doctors have female patients, etc. Also, we have boyfriends/girlfriends and a lot of people will be intimate before marriage. In our society, people tend to prefer people who are sexually experienced. In theirs, people wouldn't go near a woman if she ever did anything with a man before marriage.

 

In westernized countries, women and men also have equal rights. If a woman wants to work in a typically male dominated role, then she is able to. In their society that isn't acceptable. The men believe that the women should stay at home and if she must work, then she must do a typical female acceptable role, for example cleaning.

 

One thing I do miss is the separate queues for women as the woman’s queue was often much shorter than the male one! :laugh:

 

The thing that annoys me most is how hypocritical some of the men in Arab countries are. The guys I worked with would often leave the country and while they were away they would drink alcohol, chase after girls and some even went as far as seeing prostitutes! :sick:

 

Btw don't feel sorry for the women you see wearing abayas. Most, if not all of them wear it by choice. And what you don't know is that underneath their abaya, they are probably wearing a bikini! I've not read the Quran, but from what I understand it doesn't explicitly say that women have to wear abayas or something similar. I believe it says something along the lines of "you should dress modestly". Please correct me if I am wrong though.. The way they dress is cultural depending on their country of origin.

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