betterdeal Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Not sure which PD is of your interest but I have survived if you can call it surviving years with such a Cluster f'ck and have done extensive research, and it is, PAMPERING, OVER SPOILED, leads to NEVER developing EMPATHY plus genetics = creation of monster, non empathetic sick f'ck. Would you say you have empathy? Link to post Share on other sites
Brit Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Would you say you have empathy? Not sure anymore, good question. After years of being with someone I unknowngly, until couples therapy, and lots of reading to understand, I find myself having become like him in many ways, a defense mechanism. Ths man has zero empathy. I do not like who I have become. I have a hatred and mistrust of men. I choose not to date because of this, not fair to them. I feel I would hurt them emotionally, I am not at this time emotionally available. I am working slowly on myself. I would like to clarify I do have empathy, I am numb now. It s late, I have taken 8 mg of Klonopin, and cannot relax and sleep. I am tired emotionally. Reading men bickering so much on this sight has solidified my not wishing to put myself out there in the dating scene. Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Not sure anymore, good question. After years of being with someone I unknowngly, until couples therapy, and lots of reading to understand, I find myself having become like him in many ways, a defense mechanism. Ths man has zero empathy. I do not like who I have become. I have a hatred and mistrust of men. I choose not to date because of this, not fair to them. I feel I would hurt them emotionally, I am not at this time emotionally available. I am working slowly on myself. I would like to clarify I do have empathy, I am numb now. It s late, I have taken 8 mg of Klonopin, and cannot relax and sleep. I am tired emotionally. Reading men bickering so much on this sight has solidified my not wishing to put myself out there in the dating scene. It sounds like you have had a very hard time. I suggest you get some sleep. And if you can't sleep yet, just lying down and closing your eyes is restful anyway. We can pick this up later when you're rested Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Not sure anymore, good question. After years of being with someone I unknowngly, until couples therapy, and lots of reading to understand, I find myself having become like him in many ways, a defense mechanism. Ths man has zero empathy. I do not like who I have become. I have a hatred and mistrust of men. I choose not to date because of this, not fair to them. I feel I would hurt them emotionally, I am not at this time emotionally available. I am working slowly on myself. I would like to clarify I do have empathy, I am numb now. It s late, I have taken 8 mg of Klonopin, and cannot relax and sleep. I am tired emotionally. Reading men bickering so much on this sight has solidified my not wishing to put myself out there in the dating scene.I was once married to a man who after he cheated on me, was diagnosed with NPD. Don't judge all personality disorders or even NPD by one experience. There are many reasons why neurosis sets in of which much of it is does have to do with foundational issues but not all by the set criteria that you've referenced. The psychiatric profession still are uncertain of what causes every instance of personality disorders. They only know how to help some but not all. Link to post Share on other sites
Brit Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Good idea, because yet again, another thread has begun on LS on who should pay for a date, and for no reason I can think of in particular, it really makes my blood boil. Link to post Share on other sites
Brit Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I was once married to a man who after he cheated on me, was diagnosed with NPD. Don't judge all personality disorders or even NPD by one experience. There are many reasons why neurosis sets in of which much of it is does have to do with foundational issues but not all by the set criteria that you've referenced. The psychiatric profession still are uncertain of what causes every instance of personality disorders. They only know how to help some but not all. By you stating the above, I have zero belief you have gone through a relationship with someone with NPD, are you really suggesting my not judging NPD by ONE experience???????? Are you f'king kidding me? If you spent any significant amount of time with a person with NPD and not just a few of it's characteristics, then you have not been to hell and fighting a way back from it's affects. There is no cure for NPD or treatment for NPD. Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 By you stating the above, I have zero belief you have gone through a relationship with someone with NPD, are you really suggesting my not judging NPD by ONE experience???????? Are you f'king kidding me? If you spent any significant amount of time with a person with NPD and not just a few of it's characteristics, then you have not been to hell and fighting a way back from it's affects. There is no cure for NPD or treatment for NPD.We were married for five years and been divorced for five years. He's what brought me to LS after I discovered his infidelity. Time heals where he's still in my life as a casual friend since he's been in therapy for the past five years. Don't judge everyone by your one experience and don't judge me through your own lens. I am so not you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Brit Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 We were married for five years and been divorced for five years. He's what brought me to LS after I discovered his infidelity. Time heals where he's still in my life as a casual friend since he's been in therapy for the past five years. Don't judge everyone by your one experience and don't judge me through your own lens. I am so not you. Sorry you had to deal with a man with narcissitic traits, less that 0.5 percent of the population have the actual disorder. Lucky for me, mine did, and he did EXACTLY what the therapist predicted he would do, because in research, no one with the actual disorder and not just traits will go to therapy or get kicked out the door by the therapist within a few sessions. He agreed yes he would go, but it would have to be the BEST in the world, and why the BEST in the world, as he was looking in the mirror, he would agree to go, well because he has 20 years of college education, and HE would love to sit with another professional, and educate THEM all about THEM, he would enjoy the process of ANALYZING them, tearing apart their psychological BS with his thoughts about them, why, because he is more educated, smarter (of course) then they, so yes he would LOVE to participate:((((( Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Part of the effect of being involved with someone who has been diagnosed with a PD, is determined by your personality as well as theirs. In other words, your experience of (aka your reaction to) a person can be very different from what someone else experiences with exactly the same person. Some people will shrug off the "loony" and think nothing more of it; others will be deeply upset by the experience, for example. We all have different sensitivities, sensibilities, buttons, soft spots, beliefs and so on. It's therefore entirely plausible that threebyfate was involved with someone classified as having a NPD, like you, and reacted differently from you. Given also the longer time she's been out of her relationship with her ex-husband and you and your ex-partner, it's not surprising that she's appears to be less emotive or upset about it than you. The good thing is that it does get better, you can get over what was obviously a deeply upsetting period in your life, and find peace, which is what we're all looking for, right? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Brit Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Part of the effect of being involved with someone who has been diagnosed with a PD, is determined by your personality as well as theirs. In other words, your experience of (aka your reaction to) a person can be very different from what someone else experiences with exactly the same person. Some people will shrug off the "loony" and think nothing more of it; others will be deeply upset by the experience, for example. We all have different sensitivities, sensibilities, buttons, soft spots, beliefs and so on. It's therefore entirely plausible that threebyfate was involved with someone classified as having a NPD, like you, and reacted differently from you. Given also the longer time she's been out of her relationship with her ex-husband and you and your ex-partner, it's not surprising that she's appears to be less emotive or upset about it than you. The good thing is that it does get better, you can get over what was obviously a deeply upsetting period in your life, and find peace, which is what we're all looking for, right? Yes I am extremely cynical that a person who has the disorder and not just traits would endure 5 years of therapy. This is unheard of. A true narcissist would be angered and hurt so deeply to the core that someone would dare say they are 'disordered,' and the wrath, discard, and devaluing would be one of shocking proportions. I read a great study in depth, when looking for a way to help my narcissist, and the facts are the psychiatric community as a whole, has little understanding of this disorder, because of the disorder being very rare, (while there are many with traits, mixed with other problems, these are seen in therapy), and because of two facts, one being the above, they are too grand, great, to seek therapy, and two, the ones who do, last very few sessions, because the therapist will not continue the treatment, they have had enough...and out the door they go and do not let it hit you in the ass as you go. Because I mentioned the word 'disorder,' in trying to help the ass, I had to endure his passive aggressive venom, I had to watch him give his creepy smile over and over again, while he used his new found love of the word, 'disordered.' Link to post Share on other sites
Brit Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 They are so disordered, there is no sense or taking them lightly. When I was depressed for a short time a while back and he saw this. He saw I had a glass or two of wine. He was like ah you are depressed, too bad there are no guns in the house, and for the next month, he came home from work with huge boxes of alcohol everyday, until the garage was filled with 100s of bottles of alcohol, and everyday he would come home, with the same grin, and saying, "Honey I am home and look what I have." The devil itself. Link to post Share on other sites
Author CopingGal Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 That is disgusting. That man is a menace to society and you. Ugh, just disgusting. So, so sorry he did that to you. Only a sick person would do that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author CopingGal Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 . Their smile is captivating, their charm is captivating, the eyes dead. A smile is easy to fake, you cannot control your pupil and iris reaction. I was with someone like this for years. I hope you are okay knowing this now, and are able to drop your love for the snake and start taking care of yourself. Very interesting. My ex has blue eyes. They are a pretty shade, but yes, very dull. He has very dull eyes. This I noticed when I was seeing him. Link to post Share on other sites
Author CopingGal Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Oh, copinggal, you cant imagine how much i relate. Those lies....They really are ridiculous. Its like they hit that point where you say, "well he cant be lying about that!" Its like he let coincidences take over, combined with those small small lies...Of course, you are totally right about the enabling, i was an enabler too. Im glad we both are out! Take care!! I'm glad too. Yeah. You know I read that the reason why sociopaths can lie so well is that they believe their own lies. I don't know about that...but I suppose maybe on some level they want the lies to be true so badly that they do have trouble distinguishing lies from truth...? I'm not sure. Link to post Share on other sites
Author CopingGal Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 With personality disorders, it is found that the lack of authority, no rules, no consequences for bad behavoir, spoiling, no learning what is right or wrong, results in one with a personality disorder. Abuse or strict parenting does not. Abuse will become an excuse, a manipulative tactic for these disordered individuals. I only remember hearing about abuse when it comes to borderline personality disorder, and dissociative identity disorder, which is not a personality disorder. I don't know much about the speculated causes about most disorders, just that is usually some combo of genetics and environment. Link to post Share on other sites
Capris Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 That is indeed sick...im so sorry you had to go through that :/ Im happy though you got out!! Its normal to feel anger. It does differ from person to person, as betterdeal pointed out. Specially when you have survived years of this treatment. About visiting a doctor, i understand that Narcs and Aspders have no intention of going to one. Mine always said that if he went to a doctor he'd probably end up psycoanalysing the doctor. At one attempt, he actually did end up doing that... He only "accepts" psychiatrists and not psychologists. He says the first are doctors, the others are just people you can talk to and you dont need them if you have friends. Id love to get a true diagnosis for him. Wonder how i can accomplish that? Of course, as much as id love too, trying to will mean i'll have to talk to him on other subjects then work and im not sure id want to...anyways.. People differ, im betting, even narcs. So i dont find it unbelievable that one can have a 5 year therapy. Just sayin. I do get your rage though. I hope you're taking care of yourself throughout this recovery! Link to post Share on other sites
Capris Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I'm glad too. Yeah. You know I read that the reason why sociopaths can lie so well is that they believe their own lies. I don't know about that...but I suppose maybe on some level they want the lies to be true so badly that they do have trouble distinguishing lies from truth...? I'm not sure. To be honest, when i have to lie about something, i force myself into believing its true. Of course i hadnt have to lie about something big, till the affair. God knows what i have learned from him about deceiving and manipulating. Hope i figure them out soon. So i honeslty think that they just convience themselves that the lie is true in order to be more believable. Maybe if the lie goes on for a while, they confuse it with the truth? Today, i found a better way to describe his lies. He always said "its not the liars fault if one choses to believe his lies. They believe his lies because its what they want to hear, so its his my fault, its theirs." He let me come to a conclusion on what was the truth, on my own. Risking the fact that i may catch on to thim, yet keeping silent enough so i wouldnt. I hope i make sense. If this isnt manipulating then what the h*** is? Link to post Share on other sites
Author CopingGal Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 For people who have antisocial personality disorder, almost all people who go see the therapist is because they want something: to change their behavior so they can stay out of jail, to keep someone from leaving them, they have to do avoid jail, etc.. They never go for themselves because they think nothing's wrong with them. I'm pretty sure it's the same as people who have narcissitic personality disorder. People with Histronic and Borderline are different. They want to get better. They have been deeply hurt and they don't understand what's going on. They need someone to help them deal with the pain. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Capris Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 correction: "its not his fault, its theirs." Link to post Share on other sites
Author CopingGal Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) I find Cluster A and C to be very interesting too. But the difference is, with these clusters, the focus is on the person who has the condition. The focus is not how people manipulate and hurt others. People who fall into these Clusters seem to just hurt themselves, not other others.. There are exceptions. I suppose a partner with Paranoid personality disorder can make your life Hell if he/she believes you did something terrible to them. But for the most part, the emphasis is on the person who has the condition themelves, not the pain they cause others. Cluster A personality disorders These are personality disorders characterized by odd, eccentric thinking or behavior and include: Paranoid personality disorder Distrust and suspicion of othersBelieving that others are trying to harm youEmotional detachmentHostilitySchizoid personality disorder Lack of interest in social relationshipsLimited range of emotional expressionInability to pick up normal social cuesAppearing dull or indifferent to othersSchizotypal personality disorder Peculiar dress, thinking, beliefs or behaviorPerceptual alterations, such as those affecting touchDiscomfort in close relationshipsFlat emotions or inappropriate emotional responsesIndifference to others"Magical thinking" — believing you can influence people and events with your thoughtsBelieving that messages are hidden for you in public speeches or displaysCluster C personality disorders These are personality disorders characterized by anxious, fearful thinking or behavior and include: Avoidant personality disorder Hypersensitivity to criticism or rejectionFeeling inadequateSocial isolationExtreme shyness in social situationsTimidityDependent personality disorder Excessive dependence on othersSubmissiveness toward othersA desire to be taken care ofTolerance of poor or abusive treatmentUrgent need to start a new relationship when one has endedObsessive-compulsive personality disorder Preoccupation with orderliness and rulesExtreme perfectionismDesire to be in control of situationsInability to discard broken or worthless objectsInflexibilityObsessive-compulsive personality disorder isn't the same as obsessive-compulsive disorder, a type of anxiety disorder. -- I have some traits of Avoidant personality disorder and Dependent personality disorder. I think my traits of Dependent personlaity disorder is what kept me in the relationship when I found out about all the lies, and influenced me to not go NC the first 3 months after the break up --- Source: Mayo Clinic Personality Disorders Personality disorders: Symptoms - MayoClinic.com Edited July 17, 2012 by CopingGal 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Capris Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 For people who have antisocial personality disorder, almost all people who go see the therapist is because they want something: to change their behavior so they can stay out of jail, to keep someone from leaving them, they have to do avoid jail, etc.. They never go for themselves because they think nothing's wrong with them. I'm pretty sure it's the same as people who have narcissitic personality disorder. Totally agree. Mine ended up in a psychiatrists office because of psysical problems. He went to every single type of doctor so he had no choice but to assume its a psyciatric problem, meaning some chemical imbalance is going on. So he went to the doctor because he wanted to psysically feel better. Second time he went because of something that happened in his family and his family n friends "forced" him to go. I clearly remember him saying, again, with pride "check out how im going to make the doctor start talking about herself"....and he did. I still need a true diagnosis for him, but seriously, i cant believe any doctor would deny he has some kind of disorder. Everything fits perfectly. Each day i remeber something and its a perfect match.... Most important thing though is that, we're FREE!!!!!WOOHOOO!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Capris Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I seem to have traits of dependent personality. I have searched on OCPD due to my OCD, but i guess im just a plain OCDer. Having traits doesnt mean we have some disorder, though. I assume i hade some of those traits before i got into that relationship and he just made it worse. Link to post Share on other sites
Author CopingGal Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hi. I wouldn't focus on him getting a diagnosis if I were you. I think that will cause you to spend more time thinking about him, his life, and things connected to him. I would encourage you to read books so that you don't date someone like that again. I'm going to read books that will help me spot a sociopath. As you know, the lies and lies can keep us from knowing if they are on in the begining. Love Fraud has tons of info on socipathic behavior. They mention the book The Sociopath Next Door alot. Supposedly the book will help me spot a sociopath next time if I ever come across one again in the dating world. They also have a blog. LoveFraud site LoveFraud blog Maybe some similar to these things are out there for people who dated people with Narcissitic Personality Disoder. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Capris Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Yeah, you're probably right. I am already spending too much time thinking about this, but i guess its normal, since i just had this "break through". Thanks for the sites and books! Im searching almost everyday on "how to spot a sociopath" and its getting even more real then i can imagine. Im also trying to figure out what i do wrong. Whats "wrong" with me. Im not blamming myself. Like you stated with the other personality disorders, we must have some traits in order to be enablers. Right now for example, i have this weird need for a new relationship and i dont like that feeling. I never had a problem of being alone, or else i wouldnt be in an affair that long. I know im ust spend time on me, but id love to start dating again. Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Sorry you had to deal with a man with narcissitic traits, less that 0.5 percent of the population have the actual disorder. Lucky for me, mine did, and he did EXACTLY what the therapist predicted he would do, because in research, no one with the actual disorder and not just traits will go to therapy or get kicked out the door by the therapist within a few sessions. He agreed yes he would go, but it would have to be the BEST in the world, and why the BEST in the world, as he was looking in the mirror, he would agree to go, well because he has 20 years of college education, and HE would love to sit with another professional, and educate THEM all about THEM, he would enjoy the process of ANALYZING them, tearing apart their psychological BS with his thoughts about them, why, because he is more educated, smarter (of course) then they, so yes he would LOVE to participate:(((((While I feel your pain about NPD, you speak in such absolutes. If your therapist is telling you absolutes, you need a new therapist. Link to post Share on other sites
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