So Sick Of Being a Consolation Prize

[neowulf]

The real fear is being afraid of asking that question. The real fear is fearing what the other person might think. But regardless the question is crucial.

 

The question means nothing. It only serves as a coping mechanism to deal with the uncertainty of the future.

 

People lie to each other. People's feelings change. People lose the love of their lives in accidents, to disease. Situations change.

 

You can't know the future. None of us can. At the core of those kinds of questions is a desire for a shallow reassurance that everything will be ok. It's just an illusion.

 

The funny thing is in the very next paragraph you basically say exactly what I'm trying to promote for the OP.

 

"I go in with an open mind, relax and see how things go. If the relationship fails, so be it"

 

That is *exactly* the kind of attitude that leads to a calm relaxed foundation where two people can build a relationship.

[Janesays]

I actually don't think V is cute at all. Not that it matters. We'll all be old and wrinkly in 50 years anyway.

[Krios]

The question means nothing. It only serves as a coping mechanism to deal with the uncertainty of the future.

 

People lie to each other. People's feelings change. People lose the love of their lives in accidents, to disease. Situations change.

 

You can't know the future. None of us can. At the core of those kinds of questions is a desire for a shallow reassurance that everything will be ok. It's just an illusion.

 

The funny thing is in the very next paragraph you basically say exactly what I'm trying to promote for the OP.

 

"I go in with an open mind, relax and see how things go. If the relationship fails, so be it"

 

That is *exactly* the kind of attitude that leads to a calm relaxed foundation where two people can build a relationship.

 

The question checks how he/she feels NOW and that already answers a lot IF the person is not lying. It will make for a more certain future, but not a certain future. Nothing is written in stone.

[Krios]

I actually don't think V is cute at all. Not that it matters. We'll all be old and wrinkly in 50 years anyway.

 

It does matter. Attraction matters, we live in the now. 50 years in the future is 50 years in the future. Denying that physical attraction doesn't matter, because we'll all be wrinkly in 50 years will make for a very painful present, that's no way to live in my opinion. People want to live NOW too and not justify the spices of life away by referring to 50 years in the future.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Krios

[johan]

Well that is nice to hear. So many guys on this board argue that girls should be the aggressors..

 

Don't listen to those guys. They are the male analog of the women who say they wish they could meet a sensitive guy in touch with his emotions who doesn't mind watching romantic dramas. They say they want that, but really they don't.

 

Those are the same guys who really just lack the courage to do the pursuing themselves.

 

I don't have a problem with a woman who is a bit forward and makes it clear what she wants. But pursuing is my job.

[Krios]

Don't listen to those guys. They are the male analog of the women who say they wish they could meet a sensitive guy in touch with his emotions who doesn't mind watching romantic dramas. They say they want that, but really they don't.

 

Bingo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[verhrzn]

It's not the first time verhrzn contradicts herself. You and I are also not the first people to notice and mention that.

 

verhrzn is working herself into a corner where only a blunt and harsh approach will make sense to her.

 

Example:

 

verhrzn: I'm ugly

Krios: Then fix your face. You can afford the surgery as a programmer.

 

Do I like or want to give replies like that? No. Do I even agree with it? Rarely if ever. But she hammers so much on that very point, that only a direct answer like that will expose her bluffing to herself. Because then she actually needs to reflect upon the fact whether she wants to go under the knife or not and that is confronting.

 

I have no idea why you guys label it as contradiction. I want a guy who finds me physically attractive, but that doesn't mean I want a guy who "drools" over me. It's only a contradiction if you take what I said to a very far extreme.

 

I want what is normal.... For a guy to see me, think I'm hot, and come to talk to me. Why is that such a horrible and impossible thing to ask?

 

I'd also LOVE to fix my face. And my body, since diet and exercise isn't working. (I've lost nearly 4% body fat over the last month, which is awesome, and my weight has stabilized into muscle building, but I don't look any skinnier or toner.) Even making IT money, I can't afford it though.

 

I was thinking of putting up a donation website. Ya know, where all those people who hate seeing fatties and ugos walking around can donate money to the good cause of plastic surgery. Maybe you LSers would like to be the first contributions?

 

V, I wish you could understand that many (most?) solid relationships don't begin with that kind of instant attraction. The kind of attraction that lasts is based on more than physical ideal. You spend time together, connect on many levels, want to spend all your time together, have amazing sex together, and suddenly there is NO ONE more beautiful in the world.

 

But a relationship still has to start somewhere. You still have to HAVE that initial attraction to propel one of the parties into motion. If there was no initial attraction, there'd be no relationship. I've never argued that a relationship can survive on such a superficial level, just that it starts on a superficial level.

 

I mean, seriously, would ANY woman here be pleased if their boyfriend/husband came to them and said," When we first met, I barely noticed you. In fact, I thought you were kinda gross. But since you have a good personality and I've been rejected by all the women I went for, I decided I'd settle for you, and now I barely notice that you hit every branch on the way down the Ugly tree."

[xxoo]

I mean, seriously, would ANY woman here be pleased if their boyfriend/husband came to them and said," When we first met, I barely noticed you. In fact, I thought you were kinda gross. But since you have a good personality and I've been rejected by all the women I went for, I decided I'd settle for you, and now I barely notice that you hit every branch on the way down the Ugly tree."

 

omg, how did you leap from "I barely noticed you" to "you were kinda gross" and "the ugly tree"

 

You really have a knack for diving as deeply as possible into the negative. I'll give you that!

[verhrzn]

omg, how did you leap from "I barely noticed you" to "you were kinda gross" and "the ugly tree"

 

You really have a knack for diving as deeply as possible into the negative. I'll give you that!

 

Well if they barely noticed you, there's probably a reason right? After all, I hear men are biologically programmed to automatically notice anything attractive within 50 feet of themselves.

[somedude81]

I mean, seriously, would ANY woman here be pleased if their boyfriend/husband came to them and said," When we first met, I barely noticed you. In fact, I thought you were kinda gross. But since you have a good personality and I've been rejected by all the women I went for, I decided I'd settle for you, and now I barely notice that you hit every branch on the way down the Ugly tree."

Damn you are so negative.

 

You definitively have lower self-esteem than I do. I guess that's some sort of accomplishment. So maybe you can feel good about that.

[Janesays]

 

I want what is normal.... For a guy to see me, think I'm hot, and come to talk to me.

 

So? I want to live in the Biltmore with a team of servants and 100 dogs all trained to poop in the toilet.

 

My advice? Learn to want different things.

[verhrzn]

Damn you are so negative.

 

You definitively have lower self-esteem than I do. I guess that's some sort of accomplishment. So maybe you can feel good about that.

 

I'm trying to demonstrate a point... Posters have this starry-eyed version of how their partner fell in love with their true selves, and that looks don't really matter. So I am presenting a scenario that tests that assertion.... would you really feel happy and comfortable in your relationship if you knew your partner found you downright physically unattractive when he met you. Why is that negative?!

 

So? I want to live in the Biltmore with a team of servants and 100 dogs all trained to poop in the toilet.

 

My advice? Learn to want different things.

 

So, a guy finding me attractive is impossible according to your comparison. Fine, I've already reached a similar conclusion myself based on years of how guys have treated me.

 

Ya got any advice on how to not want a relationship? (Besides masturbating a lot, that has been covered.)

[neowulf]

The deepest love of my life up till this point was with a girl I didn't think much of at first.

 

When we started to interact though.. when she smiled at me. When we kissed.. She blew my mind. I have never felt a love quite like what I felt for her up to this day.

 

So placing so much importance on the "how" you get together is just causing you grief. It doesn't *have* to be a fairy tale beginning. A lot of married couples actually couldn't *stand* each other when they met, let alone felt attracted.

 

The world is a reflection through the mirror of our perceptions. You see what you go looking for. You're trapped by your own flawed assumptions.

[betterdeal]

You could be the sexiest looking woman on Earth yet I'd avoid you like the plague because of your ANGRY SHOUTY ARGH ARGH NEARRRGHH response to anything that slightly displeases you.

 

You want to be ogled at and drooled over? Spend your effort becoming that which is ogled and drooled over. Lose weight, do pilates, get the hair-do, spend a tonne on make up, get a personal dresser to fit you a new wardrobe, pick up the etiquette of being hot, coquettish, feisty yet vulnerable, feminine with a hint of dirty, and lie back and have sex done to you by every passing chancer in the vein hope that one of them will stick around with a girl whose main aim in life is to be ogled at and drooled over by other men. If that's where your happiness lies, go for it.

[xxoo]

I'm trying to demonstrate a point... Posters have this starry-eyed version of how their partner fell in love with their true selves, and that looks don't really matter. So I am presenting a scenario that tests that assertion.... would you really feel happy and comfortable in your relationship if you knew your partner found you downright physically unattractive when he met you. Why is that negative?!

 

Because it is absurd!

 

How many average-looking people do you meet and think they are downright physically unattractive, or gross? Or did you just have a neutral first impression?

 

Most people fall in the average category, and don't become very attractive to their partner until some connection is made other than first glance.

 

You want to be super hot. Guess what? You weren't dealt that hand. Oh, well. You can still be super hot to ONE man that loves you, if you could just chill out and let someone see you at your best.

[xxoo]

V, do you honestly think that, if a man is not instantly attracted to you, that he thinks you are ugly and gross?

 

Is that how YOU categorize people? Either hot or ugly and gross?

[Mme. Chaucer]

V, you are absolutely right. Way to go, smart girl. You have it all figured out. Thanks for clearing it all up for the rest of us, including those of us who are just blessed with being spectacularly gorgeous, (like me, old as dirt) and thus we were able to attract a mate. All the people who are not breathtakingly beautiful are doomed to be single forever. Every person I see (and there are many) enjoying the company of a significant other who doesn't appear to me to be in the top 1% of smoking hotties is certainly going to be dumped later that day, for sure. I should probably go warn all of them. Now I know, thanks to your deep wisdom and insight. And to imagine that I thought "love" had something more to it than "hotness."

 

Now why don't you stop hosting these boring and mundane pity parties for yourself? You must have about a dozen or more by now, and they are all identical. You don't want to listen or talk to anyone - why are you on a discussion board? You just want to drag yourself and anybody who will engage with you down the same sad, dingy drain.

 

Go find something to do that doesn't have to do with your bleak and utter self absorption.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'll tell you one thing - the attitude is certainly ugly and gross.

[verhrzn]

V, do you honestly think that, if a man is not instantly attracted to you, that he thinks you are ugly and gross?

 

Is that how YOU categorize people? Either hot or ugly and gross?

 

I don't categorize people that way, but I'm also not a guy. I do categorize people as "attractive" and "not attractive," with some range in between. Come on, what has been pounded into our heads?... That guys are visual. That guys are biologically wired to check out/want to mate with every hot girl that walks by. A lot of guys DON'T, because they do a cost/benefit analysis and decide it's not worth it.... But guys judge a lot harsher on looks than women when it comes to attractiveness. It's just a fact.

 

So if a man doesn't find me physically attractive, he's not ever going to. He's just going to be "blinded" by personality or connection or whatever. And yeah, personal preference here, but I don't find it very encouraging that I have to trick a guy into looking past my exterior.

[somedude81]

I'm trying to demonstrate a point... Posters have this starry-eyed version of how their partner fell in love with their true selves, and that looks don't really matter. So I am presenting a scenario that tests that assertion.... would you really feel happy and comfortable in your relationship if you knew your partner found you downright physically unattractive when he met you. Why is that negative?!

Because you are assuming that everybody finds you downright physically unattractive!

 

How come you can't see that, it's that thought that is turning people off??

 

I'm sure that you have expressed that thought (repeatedly) to the men you have dated, and that's why they dumped you, not because they couldn't continue to stand your ugliness or whatever you tell yourself.

 

It's well known how much I hate being short and believe that it's the primary reason why women reject me. But you know what, I never talk about height when I'm with women IRL. I do everything in my power to avoid seeming negative because there is no bigger turnoff.

[verhrzn]

V, you are absolutely right. Way to go, smart girl. You have it all figured out. Thanks for clearing it all up for the rest of us, including those of us who are just blessed with being spectacularly gorgeous, (like me, old as dirt) and thus we were able to attract a mate. All the people who are not breathtakingly beautiful are doomed to be single forever. Every person I see (and there are many) enjoying the company of a significant other who doesn't appear to me to be in the top 1% of smoking hotties is certainly going to be dumped later that day, for sure. I should probably go warn all of them. Now I know, thanks to your deep wisdom and insight. And to imagine that I thought "love" had something more to it than "hotness."

 

Now why don't you stop hosting these boring and mundane pity parties for yourself? You must have about a dozen or more by now, and they are all identical. You don't want to listen or talk to anyone - why are you on a discussion board? You just want to drag yourself and anybody who will engage with you down the same sad, dingy drain.

 

Go find something to do that doesn't have to do with your bleak and utter self absorption.

 

*Rolls eyes* Oh quit being so dramatic. I've never said any of those things. Everything I've talked about has been in reference to ME, and me alone.

 

Those "average" people you're referring to? I don't see them as average. I honestly believe their partner saw them, and went," Wow they are gorgeous." They're maybe average to ME, but not to their partner, and NOT because of some mystical-mind-meld. Because their partner actually found them physically attractive right off the bat.

 

I've also always said, of course there's more to love than "hotness." But hotness is still a part of it. To deny that is naive. But stop taking what is an honest truth and twisting it as some sort of morality tale.

 

Ya know why these threads always go down the same way? Because any situation I come here to discuss is IMMEDIATELY labeled as "my negativity." Immediately. There's barely any other insight involved. It goes straight to it. You were here on, what, page 2, already banging out that drum?

 

Maybe the thread could go in a different direction (aka, not about my 'pity party' negativity) if certain posters would actually discuss the topic at hand and give advice pertaining to THAT (don't ask out guys, for example) instead of immediately jumping on a bandwagon to 'Let's Mock The OP.'

 

If you hate me so goddamn much, why do you keep coming into these threads and arguing with me? It's clear you don't even bother reading what I write... you have no interest in understanding me or conversing with me. So what perverse pleasure do you take in beating me down??

[xxoo]

Men's attraction is not as simple as you believe. If it were, we wouldn't have all these average people. The average people would have died out long ago from lack of mates.

[xxoo]

I honestly believe their partner saw them, and went," Wow they are gorgeous." They're maybe average to ME, but not to their partner, and NOT because of some mystical-mind-meld. Because their partner actually found them physically attractive right off the bat.

 

You are wrong. And telling yourself that this is the only way for it to work is sabotaging you.

[verhrzn]

Men's attraction is not as simple as you believe. If it were, we wouldn't have all these average people. The average people would have died out long ago from lack of mates.

 

No, because average is a matter of opinion. One person's average is another person's attractive. I honestly believe all those average couples out there find each other physically attractive, and not because they've been "blinded" by love.

 

But I don't apply that to myself. Why? Because not a single guy has ever expressed that he finds me physically attractive. If nobody thinks you're attractive, then logically, you aren't even average. And it's a much steeper slope to climb to find someone who thinks your brand of ugliness is even tolerable.

[Mme. Chaucer]

It's your personality that kills any spark of attraction that happens. Keep it up, and prove you're right about all of this. That seems to be your main goal in life.