Egojoe......

[CaliGuy]

Nice one...

 

Caliguy's going to have a conniption fit and probably loose his mind when he reads this. If he ends up in a rubber room wearing a straight jacket, it's all your fault.

 

What do we all get to look forward too now?

 

Probably 20+ pages of Caliguy and a couple others going back and forth arguing about what we call the "phase" that most KIDS (18 - 25 year olds) go through.

 

Let's just ignore the fact that most GIGS (or Caliguy's term "immature") dumpers and dumpees are usually KIDS... Which means, they get over it eventually, they are going to date around, enter into several other long term relationships, break hearts and have their hearts broken several more times before meeting the person they ultimately marry.

 

So Caliguy is it really that important that we call it "immaturity" instead of GIGS?

 

When you're using the wrong term to describe a blanket term for a multitude of reasons for breakups then yes, I'm going to continue to try and beat some sense into these forums.

 

This isn't anything personal. I'm not gaining anything from this. I'm offering sound advice to get people to stop using an excuse for breakups to make themselves feel better instead of letting it go, focusing on themselves and MOVING ON with their lives.

 

Read my "So you want a second chance" thread to understand why I'm trying to remove a silly label to every breakup and understand it's far more complex than "GIGS".

[BoredAgain]

Wrong.

 

Being IN love = attachment

Having strong feelings = infatuation, not IN love.

 

 

I just want to jump in here because, CaliGuy, I think you are completely and utterly wrong.

 

The phrase, "I LOVE you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you" is a big cliche. So please go talk to people who have said this sort of thing. The explanation is always something like, "I deeply care about him/her and we have such an amazing emotional bond, but that intense passion at the beginning of the relationship isn't there anymore."

 

In your understanding, the above common phrase would mean, "I'm infatuated with him/her, but have no attachment to him/her" - I've never heard it explained that way, nor does it make much sense near the end of a LTR.

 

What Wilson is saying, I think, is that the "passion" (or "limerence" in psycholgy-speak") is something that can never be fully sustained in a LTR. However, a lot of people who haven't dated much don't realize this, so they end up chasing the impossible (until it finally clicks that it's a wild-goose chase).

[CaliGuy]

I just want to jump in here because, CaliGuy, I think you are completely and utterly wrong.

 

The phrase, "I LOVE you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you" is a big cliche.

 

Wrong. It means I love you as a person but I don't want to be in a relationship with you. It happens all the time and has no age limit or cliche, as you say, to it. Why is that hard to understand?

 

So please go talk to people who have said this sort of thing. The explanation is always something like, "I deeply care about him/her and we have such an amazing emotional bond, but that intense passion at the beginning of the relationships isn't there anymore."

 

As someone who has been on both sides of the coin I speak from first hand and years of experience of this feeling.

 

In your understanding, the above common phrase would mean, "I'm infatuated with him/her, but have no attachment to him/her" - I've never heard it explained that way, nor does it make much sense near the end of a LTR.

 

You have never been in a relationship where someone has stayed in the relationship just for the sex and companionship, not for love.

 

What Wilson is saying, I think, is that the "passion" (or "limerence" in psycholgy-speak") is something that can never be fully sustained in a LTR. However, a lot of people who haven't dated much don't realize this, so they end up chasing the impossible (until it finally clicks that it's a wild-goose chase).

 

I've seen and been around many people married for years that sustain passion. It's because both partners have worked at it a lifetime...

[BoredAgain]

I've seen and been around many people married for years that sustain passion. It's because both partners have worked at it a lifetime...

 

Again, I think your entire post is nonsense. Your entire explanation seems to actually explain nothing. But, in particular, the above quote is probably the most blatant example of why I'm skeptical of your opinions. Anybody who has been in a long-term relationship, one that lasts more than several years, knows that the early passion fades.

 

This really isn't an opinion, it's a biological fact. Please, I beg you, go and search Google Scholar and look for some scholarly research on the matter.

[gibson]

Brother, she's immature. She isn't saying "I want to date as many guys as I can to see if you're the right one" what she is saying is "I don't know what I want. I like you as a person, we have fun together, but I am not IN LOVE with you..."

 

If she was, she wouldn't be trying to sow her wild oats and figure out what she wants in life. She'd be living her life WITH you. Right now.

 

Are you out of your mind? How many 18 - 25 year olds do you know that know who they are, what they want and have any clue as to what real love is?

 

You can toss any spin on her behavior that you want but she's immature, not ready for a committed relationship and she's not sure about you.

 

Consider how old she was (22), where she was in life, what little she knew about life, dating, relationships, career, love, etc. of course she was immature. It came as no surprise to me and I haven't met two many people her age that have it all figured out the way you do now.

 

Which is precisely what she knew and understand about herself and why we decided it was best that we break up. That's not spin, that's calling a spade a spade and doing what was in our best interests. How is this a bad thing?

 

Is it impossible for you to put yourself in the life, mind, body and environment (friends, music, movies, college, career, facebook, etc.) of someone that young?

 

I'm older than you and I can do it. Hell, look at your story with your Ex and some of the threads you created since 2010. Doesn't sound like you had it all figured out till recently yourself.

 

Examples of some of Caliguys threads since 2010:

 

Not interested in dating

Niceguys (doormats)

I must be "hitch" for women

Dating Profiles

At Church - A story about a women "making eyes" with you at church and you asking how / when you should talk to her.

Friends of Facebook

Social Ineptness

Crushes

Is Caliguy healed? You be the judge

 

You want me to go back even further than 2010? You figured out a lot of stuff in your late 20's and early 30's. So cut the people in their early 20's a little break for not having a clue as to who they are or what love is.

 

This is not gigs. This is a person that hasn't become an adult yet.

 

I call it GIGS, you call it not becoming an adult yet... deal with it.

 

Plain and simple. I've dealt with women just like her. At some point, they always end up marrying another guy they are IN LOVE with. And the only thing she does know is that she isn't IN LOVE with you. That you can be sure of.

 

Hahahahaha! You don't even know my story buddy. My Ex wants me back, I am the one that told her I am not ready. If I wanted her back, I could have her and she would marry me tomorrow if I asked. Why has she been pursing me for a month pleading, begging and asking for a second chance. Her mother and several of her friends have contacted me too and stated the same thing. Same with the family members she has reach out too as well.

 

For the record, I have dealt with "these" women before and all 4 of my GIGS Exes all wanted me back and would have married me if I asked.

 

I also guess the 7 close couple friends of mine who are happily married for over 10 years with kids is just my imagination. At some point all 7 of these couples broke up for several years due to GIGS while in college or shortly after... Wow, that must really blow your mind! I'm sure almost every person on LS can name at least one (probably more) couple like these too.

 

Oh really? Then why has she been pursing me for a month pleading, begging and asking for a second chance. Her mother and several of her friends have contacted me too and stated the same thing. Same with the family members she has reach out too as well.

 

You think you are so damn smart and have all the answers but it is all just black and white to you. Someone dumps you, they never loved you, they still don't love you and never will love you. If that works for, go for it. For me, the world I have lived in, experienced, participated in, your way of thinking... is not always the case.

Edited January 11, 2012 by gibson

[smokey bear]

i just want to jump in here because, caliguy, i think you are completely and utterly wrong.

 

The phrase, "i love you, but i'm not in love with you" is a big cliche. So please go talk to people who have said this sort of thing. The explanation is always something like, "i deeply care about him/her and we have such an amazing emotional bond, but that intense passion at the beginning of the relationship isn't there anymore."

 

in your understanding, the above common phrase would mean, "i'm infatuated with him/her, but have no attachment to him/her" - i've never heard it explained that way, nor does it make much sense near the end of a ltr.

 

What wilson is saying, i think, is that the "passion" (or "limerence" in psycholgy-speak") is something that can never be fully sustained in a ltr. However, a lot of people who haven't dated much don't realize this, so they end up chasing the impossible (until it finally clicks that it's a wild-goose chase).

 

 

i think this might be the best ever post i have saw on ls.

[wilsonx]

I just want to jump in here because, CaliGuy, I think you are completely and utterly wrong.

 

The phrase, "I LOVE you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you" is a big cliche. So please go talk to people who have said this sort of thing. The explanation is always something like, "I deeply care about him/her and we have such an amazing emotional bond, but that intense passion at the beginning of the relationship isn't there anymore."

 

In your understanding, the above common phrase would mean, "I'm infatuated with him/her, but have no attachment to him/her" - I've never heard it explained that way, nor does it make much sense near the end of a LTR.

 

What Wilson is saying, I think, is that the "passion" (or "limerence" in psycholgy-speak") is something that can never be fully sustained in a LTR. However, a lot of people who haven't dated much don't realize this, so they end up chasing the impossible (until it finally clicks that it's a wild-goose chase).

 

BoredAgain 5 Stars Bro 5 Stars

 

Again, I think your entire post is nonsense. Your entire explanation seems to actually explain nothing. But, in particular, the above quote is probably the most blatant example of why I'm skeptical of your opinions. Anybody who has been in a long-term relationship, one that lasts more than several years, knows that the early passion fades.

 

This really isn't an opinion, it's a biological fact. Please, I beg you, go and search Google Scholar and look for some scholarly research on the matter.

 

BoredAgain YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

On point

[smokey bear]

Are you out of your mind?

 

 

"Being IN love = attachment

Having strong feelings = infatuation, not IN love."

 

 

Does this not answer your question?

 

 

 

How many 18 - 25 year olds do you know that know who they are, what they want and have any clue as to what real love is?

 

 

NOT a lot

 

 

 

Consider how old she was (22), where she was in life, what little she knew about life, dating, relationships, career, love, etc. of course she was immature. It came as no surprise to me and I haven't met two many people her age that have it all figured out the way you do now.

 

Which is precisely what she knew and understand about herself and why we decided it was best that we break up. That's not spin, that's calling a spade a spade and doing what was in our best interests. How is this a bad thing?

 

Is it impossible for you to put yourself in the life, mind, body and environment (friends, music, movies, college, career, facebook, etc.) of someone that young?

 

I'm older than you and I can do it. Hell, look at your story with your Ex and some of the threads you created since 2010. Doesn't sound like you had it all figured out till recently yourself.

 

 

AHhhhhh men

 

Examples of some of Caliguys threads since 2010:

 

Not interested in dating

Niceguys (doormats)

I must be "hitch" for women

Dating Profiles

At Church - A story about a women "making eyes" with you at church and you asking how / when you should talk to her.

Friends of Facebook

Social Ineptness

Crushes

Is Caliguy healed? You be the judge

 

You want me to go back even further than 2010? You figured out a lot of stuff in your late 20's and early 30's. So cut the people in their early 20's a little break for not having a clue as to who they are or what love is.

 

 

 

I call it GIGS, you call it not becoming an adult yet... deal with it.

 

 

 

Hahahahaha! You don't even know my story buddy. My Ex wants me back, I am the one that told her I am not ready. If I wanted her back, I could have her and she would marry me tomorrow if I asked. Why has she been pursing me for a month pleading, begging and asking for a second chance. Her mother and several of her friends have contacted me too and stated the same thing. Same with the family members she has reach out too as well.

 

For the record, I have dealt with "these" women before and all 4 of my GIGS Exes all wanted me back and would have married me if I asked.

 

 

 

Ill stick with Gibson, thats enough experience for me.

 

I also guess the 7 close couple friends of mine who are happily married for over 10 years with kids is just my imagination. At some point all 7 of these couples broke up for several years due to GIGS while in college or shortly after... Wow, that must really blow your mind! I'm sure almost every person on LS can name at least one (probably more) couple like these too.

 

Oh really? Then why has she been pursing me for a month pleading, begging and asking for a second chance. Her mother and several of her friends have contacted me too and stated the same thing. Same with the family members she has reach out too as well.

 

You think you are so damn smart and have all the answers but it is all just black and white to you. Someone dumps you, they never loved you, they still don't love you and never will love you. If that works for, go for it. For me, the world I have lived in, experienced, participated in, your way of thinking... is not always the case.

 

 

 

The makings of a good thread lol

[smokey bear]

BoredAgain 5 Stars Bro 5 Stars

 

 

 

BoredAgain YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

On point

 

 

Wilson did you just orgasm?

[wilsonx]

twice... did u see it?

[EgoJoe]

Everybody has valid points but it seems that since I stopped posting in this thread it is about attacking and not consensus building.

 

Caliguy is right about long term couples keeping passion alive. If you go to Al Turtle's website (a world renown and highly respected authority on imago therapy) he talks about the transition of romantic love through the power struggle to what is called "vintage love".

 

So what he doesn't like the term GIGS he did aquiesce to the fact that the phenomenon/stage/whatever exists. I was moderated for a joke but I don't see these shameless and uncalled for attacks on his character being moderated.

 

Shame on you. Like a pack of Hyenas afraid of someone else's opinion and view shattering your world outlook when you could be allowing it to enrich your own.

[wilsonx]

Surprise surprise the 2 people with their heads in the sand stick together....

 

Hes an idiot, thats why his character got attacked, his infatuation / attachment is completely ass backwards...

 

Every time he posts, he digs himself a deeper hole. Im sorry you cant see it with your rose tinted glasses on.

 

Instead of reading websites, go talk to married couples...

Edited January 11, 2012 by wilsonx

[geegirl]

I'm going to agree with Caliguy's statement about couples keeping passion alive based on personal experience and knowing several married couples, the longest being in a 25 year marriage, that have managed to sustain. It's a rarity but it does exist.

Edited January 11, 2012 by geegirl

[melenkurion]

Limerence, the "in love" feeling is based on surges of the neurotransmitter dopamine. It's part of the reward circuitry of the brain. It's associated with food, and addictive behaviours (gambling, certain drugs) for example. It's associated with the anticipation of pleasure, as well as the actual stimulus, presumably to encourage you to seek out "rewards" necessary for your genes' survival (food, sex). Dopamine is also released more by unexpected rewards: that might be the reason the "push-pull" is such a powerful attractor, and it's hypothesised to be a factor in gambling addiction. That suggests that since increased dopamine is associated with the unexpected, as familiarity grows, the dopamine levels fall off. Dopamine exists to motivate you to seek out new rewards, crudely. It also might suggest how you can do stuff to stop that fall off in dopamine. So, maybe everyone is right: dopamine levels fall off with familiarity, but if you are lucky, you can keep things surprising enough to trigger dopamine release. These reward systems are primal and powerful, we need these drives to survive.

 

Luckily for our happiness, there is something else going on.

 

Attachment: oxytocin is a hormone that seems to trigger bonding behaviour, trust and so on. It's associated with the mother/child bond (breast feeding triggers oxytocin release). Oxytocin is released by sex (dopamine too, hence why we seek it out), hugging, intimate conversations. And um, eating chilli.

 

Obviously, there's a lot more too it than that. The science is in its infancy, and oxytocin also seems to have some undesirable effects. Experiments have shown increases "in group" bonding at the expense of "out group" mistrust: prejudice, in other words. Oxytocin also seems to increase envy. There's also vasopressin, which seems to play a similar role. And no doubt, endorphins, many other chemicals, other factors and so on. Oxytocin in particular seems to have provoked a rash of feverish speculation based on a few interesting studies.

[EgoJoe]

Surprise surprise the 2 people with their heads in the sand stick together....

 

Hes an idiot, thats why his character got attacked, his infatuation / attachment is completely ass backwards...

 

Every time he posts, he digs himself a deeper hole. Im sorry you cant see it with your rose tinted glasses on.

 

Instead of reading websites, go talk to married couples...

 

Goodjob missing the point, trying (and failing) to generalize and classify my words and thoughts, attacking without warrant while failing at logic and grammar, Wilson.

 

Melenkurion: Thank you for the blurb about Oxytocin, Dopamine and Limerence. Scientific fact is the best kind.

[CaliGuy]

Again, I think your entire post is nonsense. Your entire explanation seems to actually explain nothing. But, in particular, the above quote is probably the most blatant example of why I'm skeptical of your opinions. Anybody who has been in a long-term relationship, one that lasts more than several years, knows that the early passion fades.

 

This really isn't an opinion, it's a biological fact. Please, I beg you, go and search Google Scholar and look for some scholarly research on the matter.

 

No sir, the point I made CLEARLY flew over your head. For passion to be sustained, both partners have to WORK at it. What part of that did you not understand?!

 

Are you out of your mind? How many 18 - 25 year olds do you know that know who they are, what they want and have any clue as to what real love is?

 

Not that many. The ones who did were mature beyond their years. The rest? You can pin that solely on immaturity -- not GIGS.

 

Consider how old she was (22), where she was in life, what little she knew about life, dating, relationships, career, love, etc. of course she was immature. It came as no surprise to me and I haven't met two many people her age that have it all figured out the way you do now.

 

I'm not 22 anymore and yes, she was IMMATURE, she didn't have GIGS. You just validated everything I've said in this entire thread.

 

Which is precisely what she knew and understand about herself and why we decided it was best that we break up. That's not spin, that's calling a spade a spade and doing what was in our best interests. How is this a bad thing?

 

If young people don't know what they want, but they know it isn't you, that's a clear sign they want someone who does light their fire. That also isn't gigs. That is, once again, immaturity. Someone who doesn't know what they want.

 

It's just hard for people who rely on this term "GIGS" as a crutch to somehow validate the reason their ex left and that "Oh they'll come back once the see the grass isn't greener".

 

Newflash: The odds they're coming back are slim to none (leaning heavily on NONE). Don't ever give people false hopes that if someone leaves they ALWAYS come back because it's factual data the odds are slim.

 

Is it impossible for you to put yourself in the life, mind, body and environment (friends, music, movies, college, career, facebook, etc.) of someone that young?

 

No I cannot. I just go with the factual data as proven by the thousands (hundreds of thousands) of real life experiences posted here on FB and lots of time going to Counselors (with real life experience) and studying Psychology. People really aren't that hard to figure out. It's always actions that matter, not words.

 

I'm older than you and I can do it. Hell, look at your story with your Ex and some of the threads you created since 2010. Doesn't sound like you had it all figured out till recently yourself.

 

I see that I hit a nerve. For someone your age, I am frankly surprised (and disappointed) at your behavior.

 

Examples of some of Caliguys threads since 2010:

 

Not interested in dating

Niceguys (doormats)

I must be "hitch" for women

Dating Profiles

At Church - A story about a women "making eyes" with you at church and you asking how / when you should talk to her.

Friends of Facebook

Social Ineptness

Crushes

Is Caliguy healed? You be the judge

 

You don't see me posting farcical, home-made Psychological advice to people and hurting their healing in the process. I've posted thoughts on my own life out loud, but you don't see me running around chasing people in some kind deep desire to fill a non-nonsensical void in my life. There isn't a void to fill.

 

You want me to go back even further than 2010? You figured out a lot of stuff in your late 20's and early 30's. So cut the people in their early 20's a little break for not having a clue as to who they are or what love is.

 

No I'd say I didn't figure any of this stuff out until my late 30s. I'm 42 and I still wouldn't say I have it 100% figured out. The one thing I do is put in my life experiences in the hope of HELPING people here.

 

What I see here is people creating drama and putting people down. That's what 12 year olds do, that is not what sane, adults do.

 

I call it GIGS, you call it not becoming an adult yet... deal with it.

 

If you cannot deal with a difference of opinion with me, how on earth are you going to handle a relationship?!

 

Hahahahaha! You don't even know my story buddy. My Ex wants me back, I am the one that told her I am not ready. If I wanted her back, I could have her and she would marry me tomorrow if I asked. Why has she been pursing me for a month pleading, begging and asking for a second chance. Her mother and several of her friends have contacted me too and stated the same thing. Same with the family members she has reach out too as well.

 

For the record, I have dealt with "these" women before and all 4 of my GIGS Exes all wanted me back and would have married me if I asked.

 

I also guess the 7 close couple friends of mine who are happily married for over 10 years with kids is just my imagination. At some point all 7 of these couples broke up for several years due to GIGS while in college or shortly after... Wow, that must really blow your mind! I'm sure almost every person on LS can name at least one (probably more) couple like these too.

 

Oh really? Then why has she been pursing me for a month pleading, begging and asking for a second chance. Her mother and several of her friends have contacted me too and stated the same thing. Same with the family members she has reach out too as well.

 

You think you are so damn smart and have all the answers but it is all just black and white to you. Someone dumps you, they never loved you, they still don't love you and never will love you. If that works for, go for it. For me, the world I have lived in, experienced, participated in, your way of thinking... is not always the case.

 

Did you just come here to stand on a podium to brag about yourself?

 

Ok then, let's see how you *DO* handle your ex. I'm not sure why you're posting about her here if you really have no desire to get things back together. And since you are broken up (and still talking to the ex), what are you trying to accomplish here?! What's the point of your posts? I don't see any information of value to people trying to heal and move on.

 

Everybody has valid points but it seems that since I stopped posting in this thread it is about attacking and not consensus building.

 

Caliguy is right about long term couples keeping passion alive. If you go to Al Turtle's website (a world renown and highly respected authority on imago therapy) he talks about the transition of romantic love through the power struggle to what is called "vintage love".

 

So what he doesn't like the term GIGS he did aquiesce to the fact that the phenomenon/stage/whatever exists. I was moderated for a joke but I don't see these shameless and uncalled for attacks on his character being moderated.

 

Shame on you. Like a pack of Hyenas afraid of someone else's opinion and view shattering your world outlook when you could be allowing it to enrich your own.

 

Oh I get attacked here on rare occasion. There are people with real life problems who have no idea how to handle things so they use a tried and true self-preservation mechanism: Attacking OTHERS.

 

I'm not here to attack anyone personally nor do I feel the need to defend my position. I draw my knowledge from studying the true hard facts and from basic psychology.

 

I've never said I am the "end all, be all" of relationship advice -- and I've never felt the need to attack anyone else. If they wish to use my advice, good on them. If not, it's their right to ignore it.

 

The personal attacks though, that's just Jr. High....

 

Surprise surprise the 2 people with their heads in the sand stick together....

 

Hes an idiot, thats why his character got attacked, his infatuation / attachment is completely ass backwards...

 

Every time he posts, he digs himself a deeper hole. Im sorry you cant see it with your rose tinted glasses on.

 

Instead of reading websites, go talk to married couples...

 

And you're another one of the many in this thread who feel the only way to make themselves feel better about themselves is attacking others rather that using intelligent discussions to come to a rational conclusion. What is your opposition to an intellectual debate?

 

I'm going to agree with Caliguy's statement about couples keeping passion alive based on personal experience and knowing several married couples, the longest being in a 25 year marriage, that have managed to sustain. It's a rarity but it does exist.

 

Thanks. It's not like I don't know long term, successful couples (marriages) and it's not like I'm making this information up. It's psychology 101. Why I am being attacked and why such vehement attacking, who knows.

[EgoJoe]

CG: Gibson has never advocated chasing a "GIGS/Immature" ex or said hands down that they all come back. But, that due to not having a comparison it is more likely than normal that they MIGHT. He has advocated having compassion for the fact that they were young, dumb and immature but not sitting around waiting, pining or planning. This helps with forgiveness to realize that they were clueless kids. He has advocated moving on and dating others in every situation. He has presented the "GIGS/Immaturity" theory to promote understanding in addition to healing which is not an option but a requirement.

 

In some cases the "GIGS/Immature" sufferers give the craziest mixed signals, come back for hookups or live in denial. This can drive the Dumpee crazy if they take their words seriously or take them back when they "want to get back together" if it is too soon and they do not truly have their head on right. I think that in addition to moving on that is a big upside to REALIZING the POSSIBILITY of the situation so that a Dumpee does not get caught up in a rebound reconciliation.

 

I think it is important to realize that despite the back and forth his points are really an attempt to articulate how things CAN happen. I think it would be best though if we all let this thread die now. We are all getting snippy (including myself).

[gibson]

If young people don't know what they want, but they know it isn't you, that's a clear sign they want someone who does light their fire. That also isn't gigs. That is, once again, immaturity. Someone who doesn't know what they want.

 

Have you ever heard of someone dating to date, for fun or to see what is out there? Or in your world is everyone looking for love and their life partner from age 16 on?

 

Dating around, having several long term relationships is very common. These days, people generally don't look for their life partner till they are in their mid to late twenties. A large majority of teenagers and young adults are not looking for love or for marriage. You call it immaturity, I call it being a normal, healthy teenager or young adult.

 

What would you have them do? Until they want love and marriage to not date and when they do want that, marry the first person they do date?

 

It's just hard for people who rely on this term "GIGS" as a crutch to somehow validate the reason their ex left and that "Oh they'll come back once the see the grass isn't greener".

 

I don't use it for a crutch and if you have read any of my 1,000+ posts, I always advise people to heal and move on from any and all break ups. I have NEVER stated that a person should ever wait around.

 

GIGS does exist whether you like it or not. I have had it and I know a lot of my friends that had it.

 

Considering your view of dating, love and relationships... which is: People only date if they want love, they only date for marriage, if dating it must lead to marriage or it was not love. If dumped, they didn't love you and are looking for love and marriage, nothing else. No wonder GIGS offends you. It's ALL OR NOTHING with you. You think dating someone or being in a relationship is marriage. You think everyone wants to be married and in love above all else, even when they are young.

 

Newflash: The odds they're coming back are slim to none (leaning heavily on NONE). Don't ever give people false hopes that if someone leaves they ALWAYS come back because it's factual data the odds are slim.

 

NEWSFLASH: Almost every dumpee in the entire world thinks, feels, believes and wants a second chance and has false hope! Regardless of what you or anyone says to them.

 

Are you God and You now decide what we can and cannot say / advise to the people that come to a public break up, second chance and coping forum.

 

You don't see me posting farcical, home-made Psychological advice to people and hurting their healing in the process!

 

You do it all the time and in this very thread.

 

I've posted thoughts on my own life out loud, but you don't see me running around chasing people in some kind deep desire to fill a non-nonsensical void in my life. There isn't a void to fill.

 

I don't chase Exes. If an Ex wants a second chance with me... It's not my job to get them to want me back, it's their job to get me to want them back!

 

About you not chasing Exes ...

 

I'm willing to bet you aren't going to find to many dumpees on here that are still pinning away for their Ex 6 years later and use the Ex's mother to weasel their way into a family Christmas thing like you just did less than a month ago. You even posted an entire thread about it! Your Exes mother had to ask your Ex permission to invite you. Do you not know or see how pathetic that is? How are you not embarrassed

 

Are you going to start crying and talk about how you lost your mother at a young age so that is your justification for pursuing / maintaining a relationship with your Ex's mother?

 

My mother was diagnosed with cancer when I was 9 and she died a slow and horrible death 5 years later. So I feel your pain and I have been very close with the mothers of the women I dated. However, I didn't use / maintain those relationships when me and my GFs broke up. It was not appropriate for me or the mother of my now Ex to continue / maintain a relationship out of respect myself and for their daughter. It's flat out creepy!

 

Did you just come here to stand on a podium to brag about yourself?

 

Oh yeah, I forgot you are God now. You decide who can share their story or not on LS.

 

I'm not sure why you're posting about her here if you really have no desire to get things back together. And since you are broken up (and still talking to the ex), what are you trying to accomplish here?! What's the point of your posts? I don't see any information of value to people trying to heal and move on.

 

Last time I checked, this was a Break Up, Second Chance and Coping forum. Am I the only one that shares their break up and Ex coming back story on here?

 

People wanted to know about my Ex with GIGS and her pursing me and wanting me back 2 years later. For the record, I don't pursue Exes... you do.

 

Also... if me posting about a break up or second chance is so bad... Why do you do it?

 

Time does heal all wounds, even an old "vet" like me (interesting story enclosed)

 

Look I am sorry that you can't handle the fact your Ex (who you took back several times and still want) never wanted you back but trying to convince everyone in a break up, second chance and coping forum to not want a second chance is pointless... otherwise they wouldn't be here.

 

Caliguy, just in case you forgot what you were like after being dumped...

 

First off, thank you for reading this. If you have read it all the way through and been in a similar siuation where you won your ex back, I would love to hear from you. If you think the siuation is hopeless, please feel free to say so. It's better to know things are truly over than to destroy any chance of being happy with someone else over waiting for her heart to change.

 

My relationship with my ex has lasted two years and two breakups. She has always been independent and never really wanted a boyfriend. I feel madly in love, she did not. The reason she did not was that I somehow couldn't figure out that she just wanted to "hang out" with no obligations. Whenever I would mention moving the relationship forward, she would pull away.

 

My ex lives with me. She sleeps on the couch because she needs a place to stay until she can move out on her own. We've lived together since August 1st. In the middle of September I asked "Where are we in this relationship?" She said "Friends..." and I said "But we're having sex, we having a great time, why can't be be something more?" She simply replied "I am not ready for a realtionship. I don't want to be tied down. I've been living in a shell my entire life and I want to enjoy life."

 

She can see us married, she's said that. She said she loves me, but she's not, and I quote "Gah gah in love." She said marriage scares her. That she doesn't want to have to "report" to someone. That she feels if she doesn't get this rebellion-type attitude out of her system that if she was to get married she thinks would cheat or regret being married.

 

After we had this dicussion, she started sleeping on the couch. We did "some" things together. Recently we went on a trip with her new friends. One of them is a guy that likes her and she likes him. They have both stated they don't want to date and they're just hanging out. We all stayed in a hotel. Her with me and him with his friend (another girl). After we had dinner with several other friends, we hit the rooms. I was tired, she was not. She decided to go up to his room and "hang out." She said they are not sleeping together and I stupidly didn't trust her. About 1/2 hour later I look out my hotel room window the the guy's friend is sitting in his truck on her cell phone.

 

My immediate reaction was "they kicked her out of the room to have sex." So I got up and asked the friend "Are they in there having sex?" She said "no they kicked me out because I was on my cell phone and felt they were being too noisy." I asked what room he was in and she very reluctantly told me. She asked "Why do you want to know?" and I replied "If they are sleeping together, I just want to know so I can write her off." I went up to the room and they were quietly talking. I waited a few minutes and then went back down to the friend who was visibly upset with me for "checking up on them."

 

I couldn't stand it. I went to my room and called her. I know, it was stupid. She answered and was ticked at me. "We're not doing anything, we're just talking..." I felt like a heel.

 

The next day she told me "I need my space. You've embarrassed me in front of my friends. I don't want to hang out with you and my friends anymore because they think you've got a problem. I can't tell you exactly how I feel right now but I'll think about it and send it in an email. You need to live your own life and have friends and stop worrying about me." I said "I realize I have to let you go to have a chance at us later." and she said "Don't do it on the premise of winning me back." and I said "No, I need to do it for myself, in order to have a good relationship with anyone." I told her I could do it." and she said "Your actions will prove it, not your words."

 

Look, I realize I REALLY screwed up because I showed her I didn't trust her. Without trust, you have no respect and no respect = no relationship.

 

She has said she could see us married and do a degree that gives me some hope. All she wants is her independence and no "authority" over her life. I agree, she needs that.

 

Some quick points I wanted to make:

We live together and will have to for at least the next few months. I've given her a place to stay and I helped her find a good paying job she really likes. Sexually we're VERY compatible. She has mentioned before that she has dreamed about sex with me. So at least I know that there is some attraction left.

 

I know I need to get a life. She said I need to hang out with my friends and be independent of her. I plan on hanging out with them more. I plan on proving to MYSELF, not just to her, that I don't need her in my life, that I just want her. She knows that I want to marry her. That point has been made perfectly clear.

 

My questions come down to this.

1. Is it possible to change her perception of me?

2. If so, what actions can I take to show her without them looking like I am bitter (ie: She invited me to brothers birthday party and to her parents for Christmas, but if I decide not to go would that seem like I am bitter?)

3. What "mindset" can I put myself in that will help me become less concerned with what she is doing and place more emphasis on making myself independent of her?

4. She sees me as clingy, with no life outside of her. What's the most logical way to break free of this image she sees of me?

 

Know that she lives with me and I see that as a two month "test." She will get to see me occasionally in the evenings. I don't think ignoring her is the right thing to do, but I also have to conciously not pay too much attention to her.

 

Has anyone been in a similar siuation that worked out. If so, what did you do?

 

Don't going busting my balls because you don't like the fact that I wasn't a total doormat, pushover and chump like you are / were. You could have avoided the last 6 years of misery by living by your own principles. Instead you come in here and tell us all to do as you say, not as you do.

 

Everyone on LS was telling you that your Ex was evil and toxic for YEARS. You were still hoping, praying and wanting a second chance and tried several times. Did you listen? NO! Neither are a majority of dumpees on here either. Like you, they have to figure it out the hard way!

Edited January 12, 2012 by gibson

[CaliGuy]

Have you ever heard of someone dating to date, for fun or to see what is out there? Or in your world is everyone looking for love and their life partner from age 16 on?

 

It happens all the time. It isn't a term YOU guys are coining (GIGS), it's called immaturity. No one at the age of 16 knows what they want. They do know to a high degree of certainty, they don't want the ex.

 

Dating around, having several long term relationships is very common. These days, people generally don't look for their life partner till they are in their mid to late twenties. A large majority of teenagers and young adults are not looking for love or for marriage. You call it immaturity, I call it being a normal, healthy teenager or young adult.

 

Agreed, but it isn't "GIGS Syndrome". That is such a silly and irrational term.

 

What would you have them do? Until they want love and marriage to not date and when they do want that, marry the first person they do date?

 

Nope, they should date and not get serious. They should not even think about marriage until they are in their late 20s or early 30s. That's for a good majority of people. I have never disagreed with that statement.

 

I don't use it for a crutch and if you have read any of my 1,000+ posts, I always advise people to heal and move on from any and all break ups. I have NEVER stated that a person should ever wait around.

 

The term, as it has been applied here, is GIGS. Using that term means you're ex will eventually come around and come back to you. That is where I have a problem because there is no factual data to back that up.

 

It's why I keep saying "If someone is truly IN LOVE with you, they don't leave." and immaturity won't stop them from leaving either.

 

GIGS does exist whether you like it or not. I have had it and I know a lot of my friends that had it.

 

This is where you and I will continually disagree.

 

Considering your view of dating, love and relationships... which is: People only date if they want love, they only date for marriage, if dating it must lead to marriage or it was not love. If dumped, they didn't love you and are looking for love and marriage, nothing else. No wonder GIGS offends you. It's ALL OR NOTHING with you. You think dating someone or being in a relationship is marriage. You think everyone wants to be married and in love above all else, even when they are young.

 

I would say a good majority of people who date (who call their current date "boyfriend/girlfriend" are NOT looking for short term. You must have no idea what a boot call is. That is what immature people who don't want a relationship do. They just want any old "port in a storm". That isn't GIGS either, that is called being SELFISH.

 

Being young doesn't mean you want to run across every pasture they can come across and I have yet to see any factual data to back that up. People often come and go into our lives. Doesn't mean they didn't care about us (they did), they were just never IN LOVE.

 

Big difference and you aren't getting it.

 

NEWSFLASH: Almost every dumpee in the entire world thinks, feels, believes and wants a second chance and has false hope! Regardless of what you or anyone says to them.

 

Of course they do, that is why my advice is often harsh, but much needed medicine for them.

 

Are you God and You now decide what we can and cannot say / advise to the people that come to a public break up, second chance and coping forum.

 

No, of course not but if see very bad advice being given out, I will definitely push people out of the way of the high speeding train of bad advice.

 

I don't chase Exes. If an Ex wants a second chance with me... It's not my job to get them to want me back, it's their job to get me to want them back!

 

Now we agree on something...

 

About you not chasing Exes ...

 

I have only chased one ex, the one that brought me here, and that stopped in 2006/2007. That's almost give years ago. What's your point?!

 

I'm willing to bet you aren't going to find to many dumpees on here that are still pinning away for their Ex 6 years later and use the Ex's mother to weasel their way into a family Christmas thing like you just did less than a month ago. You even posted an entire thread about it! Your Exes mother had to ask your Ex permission to invite you. Do you not know or see how pathetic that is? How are you not embarrassed

 

You're reaching for straws here and really digging yourself into a deep hole (and making a laughing stock of yourself). The point of my posts was that you can face and ex and walk away head held high. I wasn't angry, I didn't want her back, I kept things very friendly and cordial.

 

You missed the topic of the post and the point I made. You're picking bits and pieces of the story and trying to skew it to make yourself look better. That's really sad to see from my perspective and should be embarrassing to you from yours.

 

Are you going to start crying and talk about how you lost your mother at a young age so that is your justification for pursuing / maintaining a relationship with your Ex's mother?

 

No, what I am going to say is that I've very blessed and loved by a lot of people. I didn't lose my mom (and only parent) at a young age. I was 36 at the time. She meant the world to me and it's great that other people love me enough to want to try and fill that void.

 

I never pursued a relationship with the exes mom. She has maintained contact with me and we talk about 3 times a year. I wouldn't exactly say that is indicative of a lot of communication.

 

Are you actually reading my posts because you're pulling a lot of crap out of the sides of your mouth and it's ridiculously untrue. Funny to see you dig yourself a hole though....

 

My mother was diagnosed with cancer when I was 9 and she died a slow and horrible death 5 years later. So I feel your pain and I have been very close with the mothers of the women I dated. However, I didn't use / maintain those relationships when me and my GFs broke up. It was not appropriate for me or the mother of my now Ex to continue / maintain a relationship out of respect myself and for their daughter. It's flat out creepy!

 

Creepy to you if you have an ulterior motive. You've spent a lot of time on your high horse and wasted (hours at least) of your time trying to degrade, demean, insult and criticize me. Very little of your long winded posts actually stick to the topic. 90% of it is attacking me.

 

Why are you so insecure?

 

Oh yeah, I forgot you are God now. You decide who can share their story or not on LS.

 

The second time saying this still does not make it true.

 

Last time I checked, this was a Break Up, Second Chance and Coping forum. Am I the only one that shares their break up and Ex coming back story on here?

 

You're one of the very few, yes.

 

People wanted to know about my Ex with GIGS and her pursing me and wanting me back 2 years later. For the record, I don't pursue Exes... you do.

 

I pursued one in my entire life. To say you have never done the same at least once in your life tosses out any credibility you might have had (you still don't have much credibility because everything you've posted is sided in your favor).

 

If you want some credibility, have your "ex" post here about how she's been chasing you. I am sure many people would love to hear the real story, not yours.

 

Also... if me posting about a break up or second chance is so bad... Why do you do it?

 

The only time I post about second chances is what NOT to do and that's chase someone who doesn't want to be with you.

 

Look I am sorry that you can't handle the fact your Ex (who you took back several times and still want) never wanted you back but trying to convince everyone in a break up, second chance and coping forum to not want a second chance is pointless... otherwise they wouldn't be here.

 

Wrong on many fronts. But let's get to the meat of my posts. The major factor that stops people from healing as soon as they can is "HANGING ON TO A SECOND CHANCE". It also destroys their own self-confidence and delays meeting the RIGHT person.

 

It's not pointless. It's the same thing a Counselor or heck, even parents will tell their own kids.

 

If you disagree with me that is fine but talk to a Professional Psychologist and see which one of us he/she would agree with.

 

Caliguy, just in case you forgot what you were like after being dumped...

 

I learned a lot and am passing on that knowledge to others. If they want to listen to anyone else telling them to hang on and hope for the ex to return that is their choice.

 

Don't going busting my balls because you don't like the fact that I wasn't a total doormat, pushover and chump like you are / were. You could have avoided the last 6 years of misery by living by your own principles. Instead you come in here and tell us all to do as you say, not as you do.

 

Hmmmm, reading back over my posts, I can't see one time that I said "Do what I say, not what I do". Find me one posts that says that (you can't, but I know you'll waste hours of your time trying to find it).

 

What I am doing (again) is posting what I've learned and for some reason, it hits your hot little red button and you start foaming at the mouth.

 

Funny to watch but a gigantic waste of LS space.

 

There are other people here besides me that give out good advice based on life experiences. You're not the only one with an opinion but you're one of the few who make a gigantic arse out of himself insulting others.

 

Everyone on LS was telling you that your Ex was evil and toxic for YEARS. You were still hoping, praying and wanting a second chance and tried several times. Did you listen? NO! Neither are a majority of dumpees on here either. Like you, they have to figure it out the hard way!

 

And all I am trying to do is use love and kindness and my own past failures to keep them from making the same mistakes.

 

Again, you can continue to insult me if you'd like (I laugh when I read your posts, honestly, they're funny but do spew loads of narcissism). You can call up my past experiences (I don't hide from them) as well.

 

It's just advice that was hard learned from me being passed along freely to others. Nobody is telling them that it's the law or the rule. Everyone has to learn in their own way.

 

Cheers.

Edited January 13, 2012 by CaliGuy

[2sunny]

I would like to state MY perspective of what grass is greener means to me:

 

It means I don't think I am getting enough of what I think I should get

 

I can DO better than who I am with

 

I can get someone to give me more than what this guy is giving

 

I deserve better

 

He's not good enough

 

 

All of these things would enter my mind IF I allowed myself to "think" like a person with GIG.

 

It really boils down to not being a good match - two people who want different things - who don't offer their partner what they need at that time.

[rob_h]

**Firstly I'd like to say thank you to Rob who has donated his account to me for this. I have tried again and again to create an account for this forum and have not once received the 'verification/activation' email to get me started, and this is across several different email accounts from several different email providers. I don't know if what i'm doing is LS legal or not but I'm sure I'll find out soon. Either way I have permission from the original owner of this account.

One thing though, he is male and I am female so until further notice Rob_h is now Roberta for the purposes of this forum. Thanks.**

 

I would like to state MY perspective of what grass is greener means to me:

 

It means I don't think I am getting enough of what I think I should get

 

*am not sure this is the best I can get, although I do think what I have is quite good

 

I can DO better than who I am with

 

*am not sure this is the best I can do, although I do think what I have is quite good

 

I can get someone to give me more than what this guy is giving

 

*I don't know what is out there

 

I deserve better

 

*incorrect

 

He's not good enough

 

*incorrect

 

All of these things would enter my mind IF I allowed myself to "think" like a person with GIG.

 

It really boils down to not being a good match - two people who want different things - who don't offer their partner what they need at that time.

 

 

You appear to think that people with GIGs think something other than what they really do. Like it's a choice. It really just springs up on you, and you can't really do anything about it until it's too late.

 

The whole point is that it happens to young/inexperienced people within (usually) one of very few/no other serious relationships. Everything is going well, but for some reason the human brain decides to put a doubt in your mind "what if this is it for ever? How will I know this person is so perfect for me if he is all I have known?"

 

As I think someone said before; its like a job, and in fact 'gigs' is the reason some people leave jobs.

 

Imagine you had chosen a profession at a young age because you truly enjoyed it. You could have been a dustbin man or a prince up until now, but the point is, in this "world" I have just created, you have no idea what other jobs are out there. You have no idea of their salaries, or what the advantages or disadvantages are. How can you know what else is out there if you had no experience of it? Obviously this is a gamble; you're leaving something that you know you love, but that love is diminished/muffled because of our natural instinct to find the best for ourselves.

 

Luckily, often times you can get a good job back if it was better than you originally thought. The same does not apply to relationships because of the emotions, however it is the same doubt-making thing.

[RecordProducer]

Limerence, the "in love" feeling is based on surges of the neurotransmitter dopamine. It's part of the reward circuitry of the brain. It's associated with food, and addictive behaviours (gambling, certain drugs) for example. It's associated with the anticipation of pleasure, as well as the actual stimulus, presumably to encourage you to seek out "rewards" necessary for your genes' survival (food, sex). Dopamine is also released more by unexpected rewards: that might be the reason the "push-pull" is such a powerful attractor, and it's hypothesised to be a factor in gambling addiction. That suggests that since increased dopamine is associated with the unexpected, as familiarity grows, the dopamine levels fall off. Dopamine exists to motivate you to seek out new rewards, crudely. It also might suggest how you can do stuff to stop that fall off in dopamine. So, maybe everyone is right: dopamine levels fall off with familiarity, but if you are lucky, you can keep things surprising enough to trigger dopamine release. These reward systems are primal and powerful, we need these drives to survive.

 

Luckily for our happiness, there is something else going on.

 

Attachment: oxytocin is a hormone that seems to trigger bonding behaviour, trust and so on. It's associated with the mother/child bond (breast feeding triggers oxytocin release). Oxytocin is released by sex (dopamine too, hence why we seek it out), hugging, intimate conversations. And um, eating chilli.

 

Obviously, there's a lot more too it than that. The science is in its infancy, and oxytocin also seems to have some undesirable effects. Experiments have shown increases "in group" bonding at the expense of "out group" mistrust: prejudice, in other words. Oxytocin also seems to increase envy. There's also vasopressin, which seems to play a similar role. And no doubt, endorphins, many other chemicals, other factors and so on. Oxytocin in particular seems to have provoked a rash of feverish speculation based on a few interesting studies.

Wow, thanks for this post, M! Next time I'll put all that stuff in my guy's chilli!

 

No sir,What I see here is people creating drama and putting people down. That's what 12 year olds do, that is not what sane, adults do.

But creating drama and putting people down make you release all those hormones - see above. And we didn't even mention adrenaline. Edited January 14, 2012 by RecordProducer

[LelouchIsZero]

You appear to think that people with GIGs think something other than what they really do. Like it's a choice. It really just springs up on you, and you can't really do anything about it until it's too late.

 

Are you suggesting that someone who's experiencing "GIGS" is unable to control themselves? That's absurd.

 

Honestly, when is someone ever "perfect" for you? When is the grass ever not greener on the other side? There could always be someone out there that's better than your SO, but that's not really the point of a relationship, is it?

 

Love, in a sense is a verb. GIGS is just immaturity & inexperience intertwined.

[Graceful]

Hello? Hello?

 

Is this the reservation desk for the Ship of Fools?

 

Oh, thank you.

 

I'd like reservations for me and a few of my peer group friends. Yes, that's right. None of us thinks GIGS has any basis in reality, so we want to be initiated.

 

Please include: CaliGuy, EgoJoe, PelicanPete, and LelouchisZero. And me, of course.

 

Do we get secret GIGS Decoder Rings and the regulation formula Kool Aid, too? Oh, goody.

 

Make four of the Decoder Rings Men's size Large, and one a girlie size Small for me.

 

Extra pitchers of Kool Aid might also be necessary. We all have minds of our own, a concept that doesn't go over very well on the Ship of Fools. Book us a conference room where we can have a discussion in private. After the Kool Aid takes affect, and with our GIGS decoder rings, we're going to have a little party.

 

[Enter conference room] ....

 

Bottom's up, my friends. :laugh: Hiccup. Erp. I might need more Kool Aid b/c I'm just not buyin' all this GIGS talk. Ah, well. Are you? Nope?

 

Ah well, we tried. I should have asked if the decoder rings had a money back guarantee. :laugh::laugh:

 

[Exit conference room]

 

Back to the regularly scheduled Cult of GIGS meeting discussion -- where people gather to imbibe and swill the secret GIGS formula and "do research" on a mythical, non-existent "syndrome". But hey, if it works for ya, and you have a sense of humor, then my post won't bother you one little bit. We're all entitled to our opinions, aren't we?

[smokey bear]

Hello? Hello?

 

Is this the reservation desk for the Ship of Fools?

 

Oh, thank you.

 

I'd like reservations for me and a few of my peer group friends. Yes, that's right. None of us thinks GIGS has any basis in reality, so we want to be initiated.

 

Please include: CaliGuy, EgoJoe, PelicanPete, and LelouchisZero. And me, of course.

 

Do we get secret GIGS Decoder Rings and the regulation formula Kool Aid, too? Oh, goody.

 

Make four of the Decoder Rings Men's size Large, and one a girlie size Small for me.

 

Extra pitchers of Kool Aid might also be necessary. We all have minds of our own, a concept that doesn't go over very well on the Ship of Fools. Book us a conference room where we can have a discussion in private. After the Kool Aid takes affect, and with our GIGS decoder rings, we're going to have a little party.

 

[Enter conference room] ....

 

Bottom's up, my friends. :laugh: Hiccup. Erp. I might need more Kool Aid b/c I'm just not buyin' all this GIGS talk. Ah, well. Are you? Nope?

 

Ah well, we tried. I should have asked if the decoder rings had a money back guarantee. :laugh::laugh:

 

[Exit conference room]

 

Back to the regularly scheduled Cult of GIGS meeting discussion -- where people gather to imbibe and swill the secret GIGS formula and "do research" on a mythical, non-existent "syndrome". But hey, if it works for ya, and you have a sense of humor, then my post won't bother you one little bit. We're all entitled to our opinions, aren't we?

 

 

 

You were correct, your post didnt bother me at all.

 

Im more interested in why this thread bothers you