19 years Marriage to Unavailable Husband

[The Blue Knight]

Thanks to both of you for all your help. I think you both have tapped into exactly what has been going on in my marriage. If I tell him anything bothers me he does do it more and I notice he will do these things less when I am not in the same room. I always thought it was a way to keep me distant physically but I wasn't seeing it as being purposely hateful but I think you are right.

 

Why do other people not see this in my husband? They think he is a great guy and I know I will be the one blamed and not supported if I take steps the leave his sorry behind.

 

Since mentioning to him that n our 22 years together he has never once told me he loves me to my face, he has been pouting around the house like I did something to him, acting all detached, even more than usual. I think it is his way of getting me to cave and go to him but I am not doing it. I have done in in the past and it solves nothing. He wants me to chanse him and I am done with this game.

 

Guys don't give up on me. I have found your advise to be very helpful. BlueKnight I am in a position where have been very loyal and I have nevr thought of cheating or even hve thoughts of another man. I've not had much luck though and that scares me a little bit. My first husband is a narcissits to a T and still will haunt me after 25 years of being divorced, if I make any contact with him. I then got involved with a man who was seriously danagerous and I ended up being stocked. I know my inlaws would support their brother no matter what he does. He could break my arm, kill someone or rape some woman and they'd be right by his side blaming me for making him do whatever it was. How does that happen? Even my family sees my husband as a great guy. Any insight?

 

You may have to just let the ball bounce wherever . . .

 

I think if you get bogged down in worrying about who supports you and who doesn't you'll never make the decision you have to make.

 

Oftentimes, people outside your marriage don't realize the mental and psychological cruelty that goes on. That's not unusual by the way. It happens frequently. You hide it from others out of embarrassment or just to keep a "happy face" on your situation. He's prince charming whenever he's around others. Those are very normal patterns of people in your situation.

 

One thing to consider is finding a support group locally where you can get some women who have endured similar situations and meet with them regularly and develop friendships and they can help to empower you through this.

 

The question simply comes down to this. Can you live like this for the rest of your life? If the answer is no, then you have to make the big choices. Don't worry about support from friends and family. As they become aware of your situation, many will look at you and say "I had no idea what you were going through."

[The Blue Knight]

Now that I think about some things he told me in the beginning of our relationship, I think they were lies to set the stage. He told me that one of his sisters and a good friend of his didn't see what interest I would have in him and they wanted to make sure I wasn't out just to seek somoene to support me and my children. He told me that another friend of his thought I was a bit of whore. He said that he had never dated in the 3 years since his divorce, that he knew he wasn't the type that women were attacted to. He told me how lazy his first wife was and how she wanted evrything but didn't want to work. I saw pics of their old furniture and investing in something better should have been out of the question but with husband everyone else is at fault. He paints the picture that he is a really a great guy and makes pople feel sorry for him. I think the thing he told me his family and friends said were probably not even said, they were probably thoughts in his head and ways to control mne right from the start.

 

I have thru an awful lot, more than I have written here. Counselor said it was a wonder I was even still alive. She said it was not uncommon for a person to take their own life as much as I have endured and trust me I have been there, something I did not share with her.

 

I was diagnosed with Celiac this past Sept, got really sick in Feb and docs could not figure what was wrong so I am still coming back from a very bad spot healthwise and while I am making progress, it has been slow. I think the celiac was triggered aftr years of on-going stress and finally my body sharted shutting down on itself.

Doctors couldn't diagnose my CD either. I finally did it myself after so much frustration with doctors striking out. I've been good for a couple of years now. It's an adjustment but it's not the end of the world.

 

In all likelihood AVR your husband probably did create many of those stories to mold you and get you to conform early on. That's what manipulators do and they are typically good at it.

 

If you went to him today and said you've received some advise from a male who said it's time to leave your abusive husband, he'd no doubt shirk his own issues and suggest that I, or whatever (male) gave you the advise was trying to "get in your pants." That's part of the pattern.

 

Guys like him never take ownership of their own personality flaws. Everyone else is the bad guy . . . everyone else is to blame.

[RecordProducer]

I think the thing he told me his family and friends said were probably not even said, they were probably thoughts in his head and ways to control mne right from the start.

Oh, my God!!! My ex-husband used to do this to me.

 

He told me about people who were really nice to me or people who had never met me (can you believe that???) that I was "scary" and a "nut case" and "just sitting on my ass" and this and that. There were at least 5 instances in the first couple years. Finally, I realized that these people could not have possibly said such things.

 

In one particular case, I'd finally met and befriended the person who allegedly called me a nut case (his first ex-wife) and she was like "Huh? I never said that." In fact, when I told him later about it, he said "When did I say that? She never said any such thing." He'd forgotten his own lie!

 

It really hurt me that he was making up things as if other people said them about me. But, what hurt even more was that those false statements were pure name-calling insults.

 

You know how I caught him? The person who allegedly said I was "scary"... I met him and his wife (lovely folks, btw) and he told me (about me) "Look at her, she didn't even speak English 2 years ago when she came and now she's going to grad school! I'm so proud of you!" My English was great when I moved to the US and I realized then that he didn't even remember the conversations he had with me at all. I was thinking, you don't forget in less than two years someone you called "scary." And you don't act super-friendly. I know you can argue a million things, but this is when it just clicked in my head and I connected all the dots.

 

I still can't believe he made up such things about people I used to see occasionally, some even regularly. He told me that his family had said anbout me "She's just sitting on her ass." This referred to a dinner that I'd hosted in our home and for which he didn't move a finger. Only at the end, he made coffee and tea for all of us. Even if they did say that, it's horrible to tell your new wife that your family would say something like that about her. These people lived next-door and next-street.

 

He is the scary one, don't you think?

[AVR1962]

Your mother really did a number on your head.

Yes, this is part of what I learned in my recent 10 months of counseling. I learned how it happened, what my mother was gaining from it and how it effected me. It wasn't just me, she did the same to my sister and she is my mom's angel today at the age of 48 because she never had a thought of her own. We were support every thought and belief my mom had and if we did not she would find someone to talk to me to convince me otherwise or I was outcasted from the family. I rebelled, it was ugly and my dad supported my mother every step of the way.

 

My oldest daughter (30) from my first husband followed in his footsteps with his lies and manipulation. She was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder when she was 18. Counselor spent most of my 10 months helping dea with the personalities of my mother (narcissist) and my oldest daughter (BPD). What I an and cannot do and how close I can allow myself to be, etc. I have put int play everything she taught me, and at first I felt like I was loosing everything because I was finally letting go. Letting go emotionally to protect myself and no longer willing to go the extra mile to break my back to have the relationship with them, eventhough I love and care for them, I had to think what was right and if they could not trea me with anykind of respect, I no business dealing with them.

 

Counselor found my friendships had been the same. I would be on the other end of the phone listening to friends grips for hours while I needed to get things done. I have had to learn the warning signs of a user, learn to say "no" instead of "sure." I also had to find qualities in people I liked, that were good for me.

 

This past year has been full of work and read, sometimes overwhelming as it was alot emotionally to take in. And as much as I hurt for what I felt I was losing, I can actually say that the detachment was exactly what I needed to do. I can now so see thru these people and it no longer phases me.

[AVR1962]

Doctors couldn't diagnose my CD either. I finally did it myself after so much frustration with doctors striking out. I've been good for a couple of years now. It's an adjustment but it's not the end of the world.

 

In all likelihood AVR your husband probably did create many of those stories to mold you and get you to conform early on. That's what manipulators do and they are typically good at it.

 

If you went to him today and said you've received some advise from a male who said it's time to leave your abusive husband, he'd no doubt shirk his own issues and suggest that I, or whatever (male) gave you the advise was trying to "get in your pants." That's part of the pattern.

 

Guys like him never take ownership of their own personality flaws. Everyone else is the bad guy . . . everyone else is to blame.

You also have Celiac? Interesting! It's been a hard hard year. Right now dealing with alot of nerve damage but thankfully I am no longer dizzy, that was bad. I finally figured out the diet and I have continued to improve.

 

You have no idea how many times my husband has told me that this man or that said something only to get in my pants. Almost like anotehr man couldn't pay me a compliment without the thought. I laughed when my gay male friend called me gorgeous. That just happened to be on my birthday!

[AVR1962]

Oh, my God!!! My ex-husband used to do this to me.

 

He told me about people who were really nice to me or people who had never met me (can you believe that???) that I was "scary" and a "nut case" and "just sitting on my ass" and this and that. There were at least 5 instances in the first couple years. Finally, I realized that these people could not have possibly said such things.

 

In one particular case, I'd finally met and befriended the person who allegedly called me a nut case (his first ex-wife) and she was like "Huh? I never said that." In fact, when I told him later about it, he said "When did I say that? She never said any such thing." He'd forgotten his own lie!

 

It really hurt me that he was making up things as if other people said them about me. But, what hurt even more was that those false statements were pure name-calling insults.

 

You know how I caught him? The person who allegedly said I was "scary"... I met him and his wife (lovely folks, btw) and he told me (about me) "Look at her, she didn't even speak English 2 years ago when she came and now she's going to grad school! I'm so proud of you!" My English was great when I moved to the US and I realized then that he didn't even remember the conversations he had with me at all. I was thinking, you don't forget in less than two years someone you called "scary." And you don't act super-friendly. I know you can argue a million things, but this is when it just clicked in my head and I connected all the dots.

 

I still can't believe he made up such things about people I used to see occasionally, some even regularly. He told me that his family had said anbout me "She's just sitting on her ass." This referred to a dinner that I'd hosted in our home and for which he didn't move a finger. Only at the end, he made coffee and tea for all of us. Even if they did say that, it's horrible to tell your new wife that your family would say something like that about her. These people lived next-door and next-street.

 

He is the scary one, don't you think?

Good for you for being able to ask someone about something that was said. I have asked husband about certain things, got one excuse and hen asked again, would get another excuse on the very same statement, he changes like the wind and then when I know I have caught him in a lie he never admits, just another excuse. He's good about saying, "I never menat to hurt you," but he can't tell anyone he is sorry.

 

I think for the me the toughest sitaution with all of the above in mind was dealing with his sons. Husband was married to his first wife 4 years. He would go ou with the guys after work for beers without telling her and I think she finally got tired of it and started going out herself after he would come home. On New Year's eve he asked her to be home my midnight and she wasn't, he locked the door and wouldn't let her back in the house, calimed she was having an affair but had no proof. He then filed for divorce and hired an attorney to get custody of the boys who were 2 & 4 at the time. She had no job and no means to support the boys, she had been a stay-at-home mom up to this point. She had nowhere to take them so she left the boys, didn't fight for anything in the house and moved to the state her mother was living, asking husband if he would let her have the boys once she was settled. He then realized with her gone he no longer had anyone to watch the boys while he worked so the boys ended up living with his sister during the week who lived only a half hour up the road which was rediculous.

 

Husband, the porn addict he was, had porn laying around the house when I met him. He said that he and his sons would sit and find the little Playboy bunny symbol when his magazine came in but the boys never touched his magazines, hah! I told him how bad this material was to have in the hosue with the presence of children and then he did put the stuff in his closet. This stuff totally went against my grain of being right so one day I loaded boxes of porn mags onto the curb and let the trash man take it all and I asked him to stop his subscription. He never said anything about the mags I trashed but for years calimed I threw out his highschool diploma which was in one of those boxes, only to have found it years later which I waved in his face. He did stop the subscription but all of this was before we married too.

 

The boys were allowed to do too much, they were angry and hateful. I tried to help husband to see that he had to hold his children accountable for their actions. He said that his sister and a friend had told him the same but that he was clueless. Basically he didn't want to step-to-the-plate and be a real dad, he never wanted the responsibility. He would go from super lenient to super mad, there was never consistancy. The boys were drug thru his single life, going to sports bars with the guys who were drinking like drunken sailors, it was not good. I hired a sitter which I paid for and I helped to get the boys into activities of their choice.

 

Things went pretty well for awhile but as the boys approached their teen years the anger got worse in the boys and that anger was directed right at me. The oldest was stealing, husband would not approach the subject. Older boy started a fire in the house, I immediately called a counselor, no questins asked. Husband said I was blowing this out of purportion. Funny how couselor didn't see it that way. Bio mom got involved and told the older boy I didn't love him and that I made the situation bigger than it was. Counselor took that and the stealing very seriously and gave us steps to follow on how stepson was to return all stolen items with apologies, and if he ever started a fire again that we were to call the police and fire department.

 

Younger boy was alway trying to get his dad's attention, mostly thru tears. His brother would touch him and he would crumble to the floor in tears. This kid had a ccoky mouth and alot of pent-up anger and not only full of himself but full of lies. He ransacked my bedroom dresser drawers, put pubic hair in my toothbrush, thru a hug stack of papers in my face and cursed at me. He was a nightmare. He too was into porn which was against the rules of the house and he was very well aware of it. Husband and I agreed he would talk to stepson and in this case husband did talk, unlike times before when he had agreed and did not follow thru. However, he told his son to keep the stuff in his car, that it was a problem for me as a result of my childhood. WHAT? So basically this was blamed on me and again he played friend to his child and he didn't take the responsibility as a parent which went on the whole time the boys lived in the home with us.

[RecordProducer]

Good for you for being able to ask someone about something that was said. I have asked husband about certain things, got one excuse and hen asked again, would get another excuse on the very same statement, he changes like the wind and then when I know I have caught him in a lie he never admits, just another excuse. He's good about saying, "I never menat to hurt you," but he can't tell anyone he is sorry.

These two things are also typicalof my ex. And he'll only listen and apologizeif he needs to get something from you immediately therafter. In the rest of your post, I couldn't find my ex. He's responsible with my sons who are not even his bio kids.

 

I can't imagine going through what you went through for so long. And his kidson top of all. I mean, even if they're not as bad as they seem to you, just the fact that you've lived with his kids who obviously don't like you is horrible. Are they out of the house now?

 

I feel so sorry for you. You sound really unhappy. What would makeyou happy? Or at least content and at peace? How old are your children? By the way,Idon't thinkyou should care about what anyone else thinks if you get a divorce. Your kids are probably older than 18, it's not like you have small children to worry about.

[AVR1962]

After stepson (18 at the time) thru he stack of papers in my face and cursed me, with his dad sitting right there saying nothing and then later told me he felt his son had a right to voice his thoughts which I told husband he basically gave his son permission to teach me as he wishes because he didn't stand up for me, I then contacted an attorney. Attorney said it was time for stepson to leave if he could not obey the rules of the house, could not show me respect and was so angry. I went home and told my husband that either stepson goes or I do, I was done with this behavior. Husband asked his son to move out and gave him two months to do so or he was going to be sent back to the states to live with hs mother. He found a place (which stepson lied about) and just before his 19th birthday he moved out.

 

Shortly after he moved out my middle daughter came to me and told me the stepson that had just moved out had molested her growing up and she suspected the oldest boy had done the same to oldest daughter. It all came out and it was quite ugly. Husband wanted to protect his sons and did not want to think they coudl ahve done such a thing. Oldest boy went into hiding. Husband's family turned their back on me for bringing this to light with the family, I have never been accepted since.

 

Younger stepson is now 28, the lies and games did not stop. We found out he was getting married when husband's dad called to ask if husband was going to wedding, we had not been invited. His wife became pg and I was having contact with her via email, then I didn't hear form her and asked husband if he knew if she had the baby, neither ofus were given a date. Husband sends me the email he got from his son, the baby had been born 3 weeks prior and husband had not attempted to contact them nor had he told me. I contacted stepson's wife and she was enraged, called me a liar, said there was no way I didn't know and that I should have been there which was quite bizarre since I had not met her and there was no date given and no invite to be a part. She told me never to contact her again.

 

Husband's father came to visit and wanted to see his grandson and the new baby so we went t visit. They both were just as nice as can be. She later asked me to her with her 1st birthday which meant taking off work but I am self-employed and I thought it might actually be good to help out so I was just replying to tell her I could and I got an email letting me know that plans had changed and that they were going to wait on the party til stepson's bio mom arrived. More games, things had not been good with bio mom and the family and so I told my daughter-in-law, "Excuse my French but hell no, she has caused so many problems, we will come another time." That stated WWlll. Stepson tld both me and his dad off, told us never to contact them, that the baby was never going to know us as grandparents. This was last Feb and eventhough husband has tried to contact him, stepson does not recipricate. I have stayed out of it completely.

 

Husband's son are 28 and 29. My daughters from my first marriage are 26 and 30. The child we share is 14.

[AVR1962]

Well, I see my husband's snooping paid off yet again for him. He found my post here. Of curse nothing will be mentioned, nothing will change. There is no honest mature adult conversation, it's all in how he can play the game, beat the system, and come out on top.

[RecordProducer]

AVR, I read all your posts very carefully and sympathize with you.

I don't know what else to tell you, considering your husband may be reading this thread. I can only tell you that you're obviously very unhappy and you should do something about it. Maybe separation, at least temporary.

[Mme. Chaucer]

OP;

 

I do sympathize with you and the misery you are in.

 

I have to tell you, though, that even if your husband is the biggest jerk ever (and he sounds like it), YOU ARE GIVING HIM ALL YOUR POWER.

 

He is probably an alcoholic (he has a "passion for drinking"??) and you seem to be a classic co-dependent.

 

Please, please try to connect with other people in similar situations to yours through Al-anon or some other co-dependent peer support groups.

 

You are hurting yourself by focussing so minutely on all of your husband's faults. This extends to focussing on the behavior of other members of the family as well.

 

I am not taking his side … at all. I think that if your marriage is this unhealthy and unfulfilling, and he is such a passive-agressive asshat, it would be good for you to end the marriage.

 

But, evidently you are not there.

 

The counsellor who told you to develop your own life was not telling you that in order to help you teach your husband a lesson or anything. They were trying to help you forge a fulfilling life for yourself. Focussing on your husband, his behavior, your marital issues is NOT getting you there at all.

 

You need to find your own happiness AND learn how to have boundaries, so that your husband's bad behavior does not ruin YOUR life, since you are remaining married to him.

 

I think you have serious boundary issues.

 

Please look into Al-anon; other people have been exactly where you are right now and found many ways to change their own lives. Your husband's dysfunction does NOT need to dictate how you live.

[RecordProducer]

You need to find your own happiness AND learn how to have boundaries, so that your husband's bad behavior does not ruin YOUR life, since you are remaining married to him.

I agree. Either leave him or turn to yourself entirely and leaqd your own life - as if he's not there, as if he's dead. Why doyou think his wife cheated on him? Because he deserved it! He abandoned her and she turned to herself. And you should do the same. He is nota husband, he is a non-loving tormentor.

 

You can't go on like this, suffering day after day. You're hung up on this constant struggle and it almost feels like you thrive on it, but you don't. You need to break those chains around you.

[2sunny]

We all have choices! You can choose to leave the M and begin a NEW life - a happy one!

 

Freedom!

 

I did it - it can be done! It takes action after a decision is made. Please know it does get better IF you invoke the change YOU wish to see.

 

Stop believing what you were taught - those are lies!

[AVR1962]

Thanks everyone. I can see what you are all saying, it has been a slow process to see but I get it. I found a book that will help me take the steps, a workbook type and I get 2 coaching sessions, to help me get my life back on track. One of the things they teach you is how to focus on myself and what I want and how to obtain that and the other is to recognize what I am doing that allows te "dance" to continue and how to stop that. I may also have to go back to the counselor. She did suggest that I join ALANON and there is a group here. And I pan to seek out a women's group to sit in and get some group counseling from. It's time for me to get some backbone and leave this sorry loser to wallow in his own self-pity.

[The Blue Knight]

You also have Celiac? Interesting! It's been a hard hard year. Right now dealing with alot of nerve damage but thankfully I am no longer dizzy, that was bad. I finally figured out the diet and I have continued to improve.

 

You have no idea how many times my husband has told me that this man or that said something only to get in my pants. Almost like anotehr man couldn't pay me a compliment without the thought. I laughed when my gay male friend called me gorgeous. That just happened to be on my birthday!

 

Yeah, my CD was a bit of an adventure.

 

It's great that you get a compliment like that AVR. That's what you need. You're somewhat surrounded by dysfunctional personalities as I'm sure you know. Hopefully your counselor has suggested breaking ties with those that just drag you down and finding new friends who are healthy and somewhat "normal."

[The Blue Knight]

Well, I see my husband's snooping paid off yet again for him. He found my post here. Of curse nothing will be mentioned, nothing will change. There is no honest mature adult conversation, it's all in how he can play the game, beat the system, and come out on top.

 

That's too bad your hubby is reading your postings here . . . I feel just awful that he's viewing the consensus that we've all arrived at that he's a L-O-S-E-R

 

The more I read AVR about he and your family members, the more I think to myself . . . RUN!!! You're surrounded by narcissists and pathological liars who have one interest in common . . . ONLY themselves!

[Mme. Chaucer]

Thanks everyone. I can see what you are all saying, it has been a slow process to see but I get it. I found a book that will help me take the steps, a workbook type and I get 2 coaching sessions, to help me get my life back on track. One of the things they teach you is how to focus on myself and what I want and how to obtain that and the other is to recognize what I am doing that allows te "dance" to continue and how to stop that. I may also have to go back to the counselor. She did suggest that I join ALANON and there is a group here. And I pan to seek out a women's group to sit in and get some group counseling from. It's time for me to get some backbone and leave this sorry loser to wallow in his own self-pity.

 

I am so happy to hear this. Please try to stick with it, too, even if you don't find it easy or comfortable to "connect" in the groups or with focussing on yourself like this.

 

When you get down to it, the only person you can REALLY change or control is yourself. You are the one in charge of your own life and happiness, truly. You can get a lot more fulfillment for yourself and separate from the negativity and dysfunction. It's hard, but you CAN do it.

 

Even if you do leave your husband, I hope you will stick with working on yourself the way you are starting to, because there is something within you that has promoted your acceptance of these unhealthy relationships. You need to get to the bottom of that so you don't continue the pattern.

 

Take GOOD care of yourself.

[AVR1962]

That's too bad your hubby is reading your postings here . . . I feel just awful that he's viewing the consensus that we've all arrived at that he's a L-O-S-E-R

 

The more I read AVR about he and your family members, the more I think to myself . . . RUN!!! You're surrounded by narcissists and pathological liars who have one interest in common . . . ONLY themselves!

Yes, actually my counselor did say that my whole life was surrounded in dysfunction and she has been helping me a great deal to see qualities in other people that have been hurting me and how to deal with it.

 

I freed myself from my ex, wished I would have understood years ago how to deal with a narcissistic jerk like himself but I get it now.

[AVR1962]

I am so happy to hear this. Please try to stick with it, too, even if you don't find it easy or comfortable to "connect" in the groups or with focussing on yourself like this.

 

When you get down to it, the only person you can REALLY change or control is yourself. You are the one in charge of your own life and happiness, truly. You can get a lot more fulfillment for yourself and separate from the negativity and dysfunction. It's hard, but you CAN do it.

 

Even if you do leave your husband, I hope you will stick with working on yourself the way you are starting to, because there is something within you that has promoted your acceptance of these unhealthy relationships. You need to get to the bottom of that so you don't continue the pattern.

 

Take GOOD care of yourself.

I'm not giving in or giving up. The counselor I've been meeting with knows her stuff. She helped me with the other people in my life and now I guess it's time to get busy with this.