19 years Marriage to Unavailable Husband

[AVR1962]

Long history, basically I was not able to identify that husband was emotional unavailable at the time I met him. I repeatedly asked him questions thru the years as to why our relationship seem one-sided and he showed no interest in me. I would always get an answer like, "I was never one to persue," "I have never been an ideas person." Yet he has always had an eye and interest in other ladies, the type that gets infactuated, does his flirting and plays out his love affair in his head.

 

Our relationship came to a changing point 2 years ago when one of my best friends had an emotional affair with a man, and I realized then my husband's infatuations were probably more intense than I realized. I asked him if he had thoughts of sex with these women that I knew he had been interested in from the past and he laughingly said, "Yes, of course, I am a man." Which my reply was that he made his choice to let his mind wonder that far and this was not at all acceptable just because he is a man.

 

Since then my feelings for him have only continued to decline. I do not even want him to touch me. I am sickened by just about everything he does and doesn't do. I can't hardly stand to be in the same room.

 

I went into counseling for weekly sessions for 8 months, have not been in almost 2 months now and think perhaps maybe I should go back. Mostly dealt with issues concerning our adult children (step family) but counselor did tell me that husband is emotionally detached from everyone and that it goes into every accpet of his life. His flirting was a safe flirting and more than likely was only played out in his head and there was no actual affair becuase men like my husband are not comfortble with closeness in a relationship. They want it but getting too close will make them back away from the person and it doesn't matter whether it is a spouse, his own children, a coworker, etc. She said this stems from something in his childhood where he learned that being close was scary and he started doing this as a child to protect himself from whatever was going on in his childhood. A previous counselor we met with together pretty much said the same but then told my husband he wanted to meet with him one and one to work with him on this because he wondered if he may have been sexually abused as a child. Husband refused to see the counselor again and said he has no memories of any abuse.

 

Perhaps the counselor is right about the abuse, it is hard to say but what I do know is that my hsuband's dad acted the very same way towards his wife, husband's mom. He ignored her when she spoke. They'd go to family to visit and he would watch TV or read or get on the computer, play solitaire, anything to avoid actual connection or contact with everyone and my husband is thevery same way.

 

I HAVE GROWN VERY TIRED OF BEING THE ONE WITH THE IDEAS AND THE THOUGHTS AND THE ONE TRYING TO MAKE THINGS BETTER BETWEEN US SO I have stopped trying. (sorry about the caps-computer) I guess I want to hear from others who have been married as long as myself to a spouse that is equally unavailable. I feel very alone. The only child left in the house is a teenager with her own life. Most my friends have moved away. I do work but it is with chioldren which I enjoy but it does not give me contact to relate to other adults and I dn't have the opportunity to make new friends.

 

My counselor felt that I needed to do more things alone, go to functions and learn to enjoy my life as a single person inside this marriage. By single person I mean, by myself. That kind of stinks. I LIKE THE ENTERACTION WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY.

 

From those dealing with the same type of situation I would like to hear how you have dealt with it. I am tryin to hold on for 2 1/2 more years at least until our daughter is out of highschool. The thought of hurting her by divorcing her dad even then break my heart but I feel really cheated of a life I had hoped to share with someone who could recipricate with me.

[analystfromhell]

We all have preconceived ideas about how things "might have been" and I was stuck in a marriage for 17 years which I've now thankfully left behind. I would say that your spouse might also benefit from counseling and maybe it might be useful to see if joint counseling is something he'd go to. I would encourage you to approach that counseling with an open mind and not assume the issues are 100% or even 75% with your husband. That may very well be the case but it's more helpful to just see how things play out. As far as divorce goes, I am sure your child is very familiar with divorced parents and is old enough to understand and even recognize the whys and wherefores of the process.

[marriedman321]

I think most people that seek counseling end up divorced because counselors say just that "Do your own thing"..

 

I also think all men have fantasized about different women, so hard to get around that one.

 

As a man, I am not sure what women want. Men are not women, and seldom are as emotionally sharing and open. We are wired to think and act in a different manner. He could have many worse traits than this.

[AVR1962]

I realize there are two sides to every story but at times I get so frustrated. We have been to counseling together.......spent several months working thru his porn addiction with a counselor. This man told my husband that the porn was not good for his health, was hurting me and our marriage. He was the one that felt he had been sexually abused and wanted to counsel one and one with him. When we left the office my husband told me that there was nothing wrong with him looking at naked movie stars on the Internet and that he would not being going back to the counselor.

 

Another time about his inability to control his drinking which tones down from time to time but he has a passion for drinking.

 

Another time for situations with our children which has been a large problem between us. He had custody of his boys who I raised, they called me mom. He wanted to me allow the boys to do anything they wanted basically while the girls had rules. I met s much disrespect from them and husband coddled his sons. We would agree on rules, we would agree on how to handle situations and then when it came his time to follow thru he would not or if he did he changed what we agreed to and then blamed it on me to make himself look good which only made things worse. Today the boys are now 27 and 29 and have told us both off and said they will have nothing to do with us. Just the opposite with the girls.

 

We went to counseling over communicating, thinking maybe that would help us to unerstand one another but I can't say that helped.

 

Very frustrating like I said and sometimes really it does feel like I am the only one trying. He just sits in his own little world and always has. He does whatever he wants, when he wants but I am questioned and made to feel bad if I do the same. Years ago we went to a formal dance and I was asked to dance by another man. I did, my husband walked out. So it is okay for him to flirt, for him to be so set on some girl he hears nothing coming out of my mouth, he obviously felt he had a right to his porn fixations and all his emotional affiars were innocent BUT he gets jealous if I dance with someone? I think you get the picture.

 

If I mow the grass, then he won't do it again. If I try to help with a project of his he will not hear one word I have said until he gets so mad when his way doesn't work and then he ends up doing it how I suggested all along.

 

He never approaches me for anything so I have stopped. I ahve become very tired of trying to make things work when really even when I was trying it wasn't working. He is in his world plain and simple, his way or no way.

[The Blue Knight]

I realize there are two sides to every story but at times I get so frustrated. We have been to counseling together.......spent several months working thru his porn addiction with a counselor. This man told my husband that the porn was not good for his health, was hurting me and our marriage. He was the one that felt he had been sexually abused and wanted to counsel one and one with him. When we left the office my husband told me that there was nothing wrong with him looking at naked movie stars on the Internet and that he would not being going back to the counselor.

 

Another time about his inability to control his drinking which tones down from time to time but he has a passion for drinking.

 

Another time for situations with our children which has been a large problem between us. He had custody of his boys who I raised, they called me mom. He wanted to me allow the boys to do anything they wanted basically while the girls had rules. I met s much disrespect from them and husband coddled his sons. We would agree on rules, we would agree on how to handle situations and then when it came his time to follow thru he would not or if he did he changed what we agreed to and then blamed it on me to make himself look good which only made things worse. Today the boys are now 27 and 29 and have told us both off and said they will have nothing to do with us. Just the opposite with the girls.

 

We went to counseling over communicating, thinking maybe that would help us to unerstand one another but I can't say that helped.

 

Very frustrating like I said and sometimes really it does feel like I am the only one trying. He just sits in his own little world and always has. He does whatever he wants, when he wants but I am questioned and made to feel bad if I do the same. Years ago we went to a formal dance and I was asked to dance by another man. I did, my husband walked out. So it is okay for him to flirt, for him to be so set on some girl he hears nothing coming out of my mouth, he obviously felt he had a right to his porn fixations and all his emotional affiars were innocent BUT he gets jealous if I dance with someone? I think you get the picture.

 

If I mow the grass, then he won't do it again. If I try to help with a project of his he will not hear one word I have said until he gets so mad when his way doesn't work and then he ends up doing it how I suggested all along.

 

He never approaches me for anything so I have stopped. I ahve become very tired of trying to make things work when really even when I was trying it wasn't working. He is in his world plain and simple, his way or no way.

AVR, You're married to a child. He pouts when another man asks you to dance, and won't mow the yard if you do it? What a baby! He's obviously insecure to the hilt. My wife could be asked by someone if she'd like to dance by someone and I'd be fine with it. But then, I'm secure in my relationship with her.

 

More importantly, his apparent addiction to porn has replaced you in the sexual arena. Guys who fixate on porn lose perspective of what a real loving sexual relationship is like. They also come to only worry about what makes them happy and what pleases them rather than what pleases their partner. Porn gives an unrealistic picture of what a loving relationship should be.

 

You haven't mentioned sex here which I think is odd. Perhaps you don't have any sexual relationship with him at this point but if I were a guessing man I'd say he was fairly selfish when he was sexual with you, be it lately or even in your early years.

 

From what I'm reading he's very content being isolated and by himself. That isn't something you're likely to change, especially at this point in his life. Typically after this many years together it will only get worse and not better. You're looking for a partner. A man you can spend your life with. This guy unfortunately is not that guy.

[AVR1962]

BlueKnight, you nailed this one good. I totally agree he is used to being babied and when he isn't el Supremo he pouts or walks away but it is like he never feels he has to give. I think this stems from his family growing up. He was the only boy and not only did his mom ad dad dote on him but his sisters just acted like he was some sort of God. He knows how they are act towards him and he eats it up. One day while living overseas (military) his parents visited, he was at work when they flew in. He came home and rather than just opening the door and coming in he made this grand entrance, opened the door wide and stood back while his mother just went nuts over him. Quite a sick sight to see.

 

We basically have had, what I consider, no sex life. 98% of the time I went to him, it was always me persuing him for anything and everything and I am not a needy person or a demanding person. If I didn't create it, it wasn't going to happen, no matter what area of our lives. A person can only do this so long without feeling very rejected so I stopped and he has not persued me. At this point I don't want him to even touch me. And at the same time I don't know what it feels like anymore to be loved, to be wanted, or even to have a loving touch because I have not had this for too too long.

 

I made a post on the infamous FB about wanting to enjoy life with someone who was mutually invested. My 26 year old daughter called me, she knows I have thought many times of leaving her stepdad. She was trying to tell me that he might be boring but divorce opens a whole other can of worms and chages your relaity and not necissarily for the better. Her father, my ex, has been a real player and so she has seen the devestation of divorce.

 

When my husband twisted my hand and fractured two of my fingers in a fight while he was drunk many years ago, I called my mom and my grandmother. I had called the cops who were on their way, I was ready to leave. My mom said that I should not have grabbed his collar. I had grabbed his collar because yet again he had decided to just ignore me and walk off which he is so well known for. When I grabbed his collar he grabbed my hand and would not stop twisting. I was figting and kicking with my other hand and my feet. This man outweighs me by a good 80 lbs and is a half a foot taller. My grandmother said she sure hate to see our only child together have to endure a divorce like my older daughters wnet thru and asked me to work it out with my husband. I actually left and lived in a hotel for awhile but I did eventually go back. He has never touched me like this since but my point here is I have no support to leave this man. Everyone thinks he's a great guys despite the stuff he has pulled. For some reason I should have done something differently OR I need to fix it.

 

It has gotten to the point that all his little habits just annoy the living crap out of me. He has sinus issues and has been on meds the whole time I have known him but he constantly blows his nose and then is forever picking his nose. When my youngest daughter was small her bedroom was also our office and husband would be picking his nose and throwing the crumbles on the floor to have my daughter crawling around and playing in it. Of course I mentioned this to him but did that change anything?

 

He brushes his teeth before breakfast so he doesn't have to go back in the bathroom later. He is FAT and does not take care of himself. He seriously looks like he is 9 months pg. Not the man I knew who had to keep his weight down for the military. He thinks he is quite the smart guys and has to top everyone jokes or their wit, something his whole family loved to do.

 

And get this, in our 22 years of being together I have never been told I was loved directly to my face. He used to whisper it in my ear, write it on a birthday card or etll me on the phone but never to my face.

 

Why don't I leave? I do have a job but it is not one that has insurance and I have celiac so I have lots of very expensive medical costs to consider. I don't want to put my daughter thru what my older girsl went thru by leaving her dad. And we don't live in America. I fear losing my family all together as they will not support this, that is obvious. I also know if he knew how I fel he would do everything to secure things in his name so I could not get anything. He divorced his first wife when he "thought" she was interested in other men and he learned that she was talking to a man when out with her friends. He made into her having an affair when ion reality it was not and he had no proof. He then not only divorced her but he filed for custody of his sons. Little did she know but all she had to do at the time, laws were different then, was tell the court she wanted custody and she would ahve got it. He then took everything. And I have no doubt he would do the same and that a big part of why I have not taken any further steps. Our daughter has 2 1/2 years left of school. So right now I feel very stuck but my plan to get get myself in a situations o I can have medical coverage and have income that I can support myself on. I am paying off my car right now so I won't have those pmts later and part of his retirement benefits which I am entitled to, I think I will be able to make it.

[LadyGrey]

I'm sorry AVR for the situation you find yourself in. Your husband sounds like a real asshat. I hope things change for the better in some way in the near future.

[AVR1962]

I am wondering if anything I have just described about my husband's personality can be inherited? The reason I ask is not only do I see my husband repeating what his dad did to his mom, but I also see the same type of behavior in both my stepsons and the daughter that my husband and I had together. My husband's sister is the same way. They all are socially removed, disconnected from people, do not communicate well and when they decide not to respond they just ignore. They can all be very condicending or they will turn things on someone else by answering your question with a question. All home bodies. All seem depressed and unhappy with life but everyone else is the fault of their unhappiness.

[The Blue Knight]

BlueKnight, you nailed this one good. I totally agree he is used to being babied and when he isn't el Supremo he pouts or walks away but it is like he never feels he has to give. I think this stems from his family growing up. He was the only boy and not only did his mom ad dad dote on him but his sisters just acted like he was some sort of God. He knows how they are act towards him and he eats it up. One day while living overseas (military) his parents visited, he was at work when they flew in. He came home and rather than just opening the door and coming in he made this grand entrance, opened the door wide and stood back while his mother just went nuts over him. Quite a sick sight to see.

 

We basically have had, what I consider, no sex life. 98% of the time I went to him, it was always me persuing him for anything and everything and I am not a needy person or a demanding person. If I didn't create it, it wasn't going to happen, no matter what area of our lives. A person can only do this so long without feeling very rejected so I stopped and he has not persued me. At this point I don't want him to even touch me. And at the same time I don't know what it feels like anymore to be loved, to be wanted, or even to have a loving touch because I have not had this for too too long.

 

I made a post on the infamous FB about wanting to enjoy life with someone who was mutually invested. My 26 year old daughter called me, she knows I have thought many times of leaving her stepdad. She was trying to tell me that he might be boring but divorce opens a whole other can of worms and chages your relaity and not necissarily for the better. Her father, my ex, has been a real player and so she has seen the devestation of divorce.

 

When my husband twisted my hand and fractured two of my fingers in a fight while he was drunk many years ago, I called my mom and my grandmother. I had called the cops who were on their way, I was ready to leave. My mom said that I should not have grabbed his collar. I had grabbed his collar because yet again he had decided to just ignore me and walk off which he is so well known for. When I grabbed his collar he grabbed my hand and would not stop twisting. I was figting and kicking with my other hand and my feet. This man outweighs me by a good 80 lbs and is a half a foot taller. My grandmother said she sure hate to see our only child together have to endure a divorce like my older daughters wnet thru and asked me to work it out with my husband. I actually left and lived in a hotel for awhile but I did eventually go back. He has never touched me like this since but my point here is I have no support to leave this man. Everyone thinks he's a great guys despite the stuff he has pulled. For some reason I should have done something differently OR I need to fix it.

 

It has gotten to the point that all his little habits just annoy the living crap out of me. He has sinus issues and has been on meds the whole time I have known him but he constantly blows his nose and then is forever picking his nose. When my youngest daughter was small her bedroom was also our office and husband would be picking his nose and throwing the crumbles on the floor to have my daughter crawling around and playing in it. Of course I mentioned this to him but did that change anything?

 

He brushes his teeth before breakfast so he doesn't have to go back in the bathroom later. He is FAT and does not take care of himself. He seriously looks like he is 9 months pg. Not the man I knew who had to keep his weight down for the military. He thinks he is quite the smart guys and has to top everyone jokes or their wit, something his whole family loved to do.

 

And get this, in our 22 years of being together I have never been told I was loved directly to my face. He used to whisper it in my ear, write it on a birthday card or etll me on the phone but never to my face.

 

Why don't I leave? I do have a job but it is not one that has insurance and I have celiac so I have lots of very expensive medical costs to consider. I don't want to put my daughter thru what my older girsl went thru by leaving her dad. And we don't live in America. I fear losing my family all together as they will not support this, that is obvious. I also know if he knew how I fel he would do everything to secure things in his name so I could not get anything. He divorced his first wife when he "thought" she was interested in other men and he learned that she was talking to a man when out with her friends. He made into her having an affair when ion reality it was not and he had no proof. He then not only divorced her but he filed for custody of his sons. Little did she know but all she had to do at the time, laws were different then, was tell the court she wanted custody and she would ahve got it. He then took everything. And I have no doubt he would do the same and that a big part of why I have not taken any further steps. Our daughter has 2 1/2 years left of school. So right now I feel very stuck but my plan to get get myself in a situations o I can have medical coverage and have income that I can support myself on. I am paying off my car right now so I won't have those pmts later and part of his retirement benefits which I am entitled to, I think I will be able to make it.

You laid a lot of stuff out there AVR. You have to look out for YOU at this point. Your family I'm afraid is doing the classic "blame the victim" which is an enabling mechanism they probably learned from their family. Telling you to stay with an abusive man? Are they nuts? I work in law enforcement and I would never tell you to stay with a man like that and I would have had words with any family member who would have told you otherwise. Incidentally, I also have CD as you do.

 

My only advise is that you have to find what works for you. Clearly, being with this self-absorbed idiot wasn't working 20 years ago, it's not working today, and it's not going to be working two years from now.

 

The fact that he's never told you he loved you to your face suggests a major problem within his personality. There's not a day that goes by where I don't tell my wife that and she does the same. Sadly, you don't have a marriage. You have an understanding.

 

All I can suggest is that you find a support group who will help you through it and then go for it. Get this overweight piece of garbage out of your life.

[123321]

Our relationship came to a changing point 2 years ago when one of my best friends had an emotional affair with a man ....

 

Since then my feelings for him have only continued to decline. I do not even want him to touch me. I am sickened by just about everything he does ....

 

Why are you trying to make this his fault? He seems OK in the marriage, it's YOU that have the issues. Maybe work on your issues, hmmm?

[FitChick]

If your kids are grown, see a divorce attorney for advice.

[giotto]

as someone married to an emotionally unavailable wife, I feel for you. If your husband doesn't want to seek counselling and/or therapy, there is only one option: divorce. I will be doing that at some stage, probably in 5 years time...

[nleeh]

I am married to an unemotional man for 25 years. He is self centered and lives in his own space most of the time. His father was the same way and I think he learned how to act towards women from his father and most likely part of the way he acts is innate in his personality.

 

For many years I hounded him to change, to be more loving, more responsive, I clung to him and cried, begged him to change, to be more attentive, to listen to my day rather than listen only to his and to do more activities with me. All my efforts were in vain. He continued to live in his own little world with no friends and no activities unless I forced him to participate. You can imagine how great that turned out! Yet he is satisfied with, what I consider to be an uninteresting life. When I realized he is content, I had to re-think my efforts. I decided to stay married to this man, and with that decision, it was I who had to change. I found new friends and attend activities with said friends, I do more on my own and enjoy myself. Sometimes I still encourage him to join me and after many years of finding ways to enjoy myself without his help, sometimes he willingly will, but mostly he is content to be entertained by the tv rather than put himself out into the world of others.

 

At first when I struck out on my own, he was annoyed and often let it be known because he liked having me hang around and be sad but over the years he has accepted my freedom to enjoy myself and not rely on him to fulfill me. For me, this was the solution although not the best - one can imagine - but one that has filled my life with enjoyment and fun.

 

And I have to say, the more I extended myself outside of his little world the more he has come into mine. Not fully, not with a lot of enthusiasm but somewhat. To stay married to such a man, it is up to the wife (or husband of such a person) to make changes in themselves rather than expect their spouse to make major changes. Divorce or separation is the only other option. I stayed and although I continue to hope one day he will join me in an actual partnership, I know it would take a miracle for that to happen and let's face it, how often do miracles happen! So mostly I live my life and let him be. In a way, he is miserably happy and I for the most part AM happy.

 

nleeh

[AVR1962]

You laid a lot of stuff out there AVR. You have to look out for YOU at this point. Your family I'm afraid is doing the classic "blame the victim" which is an enabling mechanism they probably learned from their family. Telling you to stay with an abusive man? Are they nuts? I work in law enforcement and I would never tell you to stay with a man like that and I would have had words with any family member who would have told you otherwise. Incidentally, I also have CD as you do.

 

My only advise is that you have to find what works for you. Clearly, being with this self-absorbed idiot wasn't working 20 years ago, it's not working today, and it's not going to be working two years from now.

 

The fact that he's never told you he loved you to your face suggests a major problem within his personality. There's not a day that goes by where I don't tell my wife that and she does the same. Sadly, you don't have a marriage. You have an understanding.

 

All I can suggest is that you find a support group who will help you through it and then go for it. Get this overweight piece of garbage out of your life.

 

Yes, I spent 10 months in weekly counseling and counselor said that I never had the support from my family, my mother is narcissistic and I have surrounded myself in complete dysfunction. She said I absorb dysfunction life it is normal because that is how I was taught to cope with my life growing up. Counselor and I touched only briefly on my marriage but I know you are right Blue Knight.

 

I had yet another disappointing situation and I realize that they all will be. My birthday was this week. I wanted to go a certain place with friends which I arranged, we wnt and had a great time. This was two days before my actual birthday since my birthday is so close to Christmas. Husband was being his jokster self and we all laughed so hard, it was great. I was opening gifts and got to husband's which was a gift certificate to a spa which I thanked him for. Then I opened the next one and oowed and oohed over it and then husband made a remark (all humorous) about no oow and aah over his gift and while some may see humor in that, he expects me to break down in tears over wha he gives me just like his motehr would cry over cards he woudlgive her, he loved that and I have told him I am not that person.

 

Then comes my actual birthday. I was on FaceBook mentioning to husband the birthday wishes, at this point (near noon) he had not wished me a happy birthday and I don't think that is too much to expect on my actual day. He finally says something and I tell him that I was wondering if he was going to say anything. HE TELLS ME THAT WE CELEBRATED ALREADY AND HE DIDN"T THINK HE HAD TO say anything. REALLY?? What an idiot. The day went like any other normal day. As long as he has an audience he is the gentlman, the do-it-all, Mr Pleasant but as soon as it is me and him, forget it, there is no one to impress. He spent the day reading, doing crossword puzzles, always tied up in something.

 

I keep tellin myself my days with this man are limited.

[AVR1962]

I am married to an unemotional man for 25 years. He is self centered and lives in his own space most of the time. His father was the same way and I think he learned how to act towards women from his father and most likely part of the way he acts is innate in his personality.

 

For many years I hounded him to change, to be more loving, more responsive, I clung to him and cried, begged him to change, to be more attentive, to listen to my day rather than listen only to his and to do more activities with me. All my efforts were in vain. He continued to live in his own little world with no friends and no activities unless I forced him to participate. You can imagine how great that turned out! Yet he is satisfied with, what I consider to be an uninteresting life. When I realized he is content, I had to re-think my efforts. I decided to stay married to this man, and with that decision, it was I who had to change. I found new friends and attend activities with said friends, I do more on my own and enjoy myself. Sometimes I still encourage him to join me and after many years of finding ways to enjoy myself without his help, sometimes he willingly will, but mostly he is content to be entertained by the tv rather than put himself out into the world of others.

 

At first when I struck out on my own, he was annoyed and often let it be known because he liked having me hang around and be sad but over the years he has accepted my freedom to enjoy myself and not rely on him to fulfill me. For me, this was the solution although not the best - one can imagine - but one that has filled my life with enjoyment and fun.

 

And I have to say, the more I extended myself outside of his little world the more he has come into mine. Not fully, not with a lot of enthusiasm but somewhat. To stay married to such a man, it is up to the wife (or husband of such a person) to make changes in themselves rather than expect their spouse to make major changes. Divorce or separation is the only other option. I stayed and although I continue to hope one day he will join me in an actual partnership, I know it would take a miracle for that to happen and let's face it, how often do miracles happen! So mostly I live my life and let him be. In a way, he is miserably happy and I for the most part AM happy.

 

nleeh

Thank you for your reply, it's good to hear from someone who has actually been thru this. I think it happens more than people want to admit. I have2 friends who have divorced in the past 2 years for the very same reason. I have another whose husband is completely in his own world and she is just there almost like the worker bee to hold the family together but there is no interaction between her and hr husband.

 

What you have done by creating your own life and friends is exactly what my counselor suggested for me. I am trying to not include him and just do my own thing. So far, I just see us going more and more our seperate ways but he seems to have no problem with it and all my work in trying to be a couple had me just spinning in mud. His admission of the emotional affiars was the last straw for me!

[RecordProducer]

You're very confused right now, so you need to sleep on it, dissect all issues one by one and make a cold-headed decision about your future. Just relax and don't think about it for a few days.

 

The fantasies about other women...frankly, I'd be surprised if any man or even a woman hasn't imagined sex with other people. That issue I think you should eliminate from your head once and for all because you can't resolve it, you can't change it, and the only problem is that he told you about it.

 

You have to decide whether you want to leave or stay. If you stay, you can either accept him the way he is or compel him to make some changes. If the latter, you have to think of all the ways to make him want to change. Your husband may be passive-aggressive. My ex-husband was closed like this during our marriage but he instantly changed when we separated. I think the reason was emotional detachment: to show me that he didn't care about me. It was his passive-aggressive tool, emotional torture. I am almost two decades younger than him, I am fun and attractive and he immediately after the wedding stopped with the compliments, stopped having sex with me, stopped talking to me or even looking at my side. We sat all evening with our backs turned on our computers. If I'd start talking to him, he'd act literally as if he was alone in the room and no one was there talking. I'd just go back to my seat.

 

He also gave me the silent treatments for three days, and stopped when I continued - he wanted to break the silence after 3 days (the punishment had expired), and said "hi" and I turned my head away from him to show him that the silence was not over. He never did the silence treatment to me again. Sometimes, what worked with him was if I did the same thing to him, but ONLY if I had the upper hand, if it was something that he could not possibly control.

 

Anyway, we're divorced now, thank God. There's a lot more to the story but it all boils down to his inability to communicate, his power trips, blackmails, threats, emotional distance, mental torture, and series of provocations. He looooooved to provoke me. He'd try and try and the calmer I remained the angrier he'd get. But he always won because I have a short fuse and he'd just stepon all of my boundaries. He'd go to places where I had to react. And your husband's violent episode was a response to him losing control because you grabbed his collar. He had perfect control over you by showing you indifference and you ruined the fun for him. You made him look at you, touch you and say something to you in response - and that made him angry.

 

I can't tell you what to do and maybe you love him. We here see your husband the way you describe him and he sounds like a passive-aggressive person. I read a book on those and they are very difficult to tame down. Your emotional need is to give and receive affection and understanding, but his is to win the power trip, to kill you emotionally. My ex would show some compassion when I'd show sadness, but I didn't try that method because I get angry when I'm hurt, I can't do the crying/whining thing although I think that would've been a way more effective tool to show my true emotions (hurt, before it turned to anger) and to compel the ex-H to change something.

 

Tell us more about yourself and how you react to his actions (or lack thereof). My ex loved to see me angry, that's when he'd sit down and ignore me - after provoking the heck out of me. For starters, try doing absolutely the same thing to him. I know it will feel weird because you're probably a warm, passionate, considerate person, but you have to show him what it's like. Start by showing disinterest and slowly move to complete exclusion. Don't talk to him at all. If he starts talking to you, wait forever to respond and only if you absolutely must. Try that for a week and see how his interest in you will rise. Or come back and tell us what happened. Of course, you don't have to listen to any of what I tell you.

 

I also suggest you leave him alone all day. Every day. Go anywhere, just show him you can do without him. By the way, Nleeh's husband doesn't sound anything like yours. Your H is not an idiot for not saying Hapy B/day nor is it a matter of "no one to impress." He is doing all these things deliberately with the desire to maintain emotional control over you by hurting you. He's not just hurting you, he's breaking you. Mother Teresa who helped the poor and hungry her entire life said there's no poverty and hunger like the hunger for love and feeling unwanted, unloved, forgotten is much worse than having nothing to eat. The reason why he is joking around with other people is because he doesn't like you to have support in other people; then, he'd lose control if your friends tell you "Urgh, your H is a complete ass!" Plus, he wants you to think that you're no one to impress.

 

I also know if he knew how I fel he would do everything to secure things in his name so I could not get anything.

In the United States this is a crime. It's not "securing" things, it's illegal transfer of assets. But you would need to have some proof of what assets existed before the transfer. I don't know the laws of the country you're in but if half of what you both have belongs to you in case of a divorce, you have to fight him. You can't let him take everything. You will need a lawyer if you're going to divorce him, no matter how lawless the country is - unless you live in Colombia and think he can murder you. A little joke.

[AVR1962]

RecordProducer, you definately have walked in my shoes. Before we married I sought a counselor as I knew something was not right. She told me by the way I described my, now, husband that he was passive-aggressive. She told me these people are the hardest to deal with that I needed to walk away.

 

Today, disappointedby how things went on my birthday, I told my husband that we needed to talk to our teen daughter about nicities and common curtosies, she did not wish me a happy birthday at all. I then went on to tell him that I was disappointed that it took him nearly til noon to mention anything to me and only after I mentioned responses on FaceBook. I told him just because we celebrated 2 days earlier didn't mean that my day should not have been special. (No response) I then proceeded to tell him that I was very tired of his lack of interest and his disconnection in our marriage. I told him that in 22 years of being together he has not one time told me he loved me to my face. His response, "You have not been forth-coming yourself." Which I then asked, "who was it that dropped my hand in the beginning of our relationship and later said it was because he could not show affection in uniform, you were not even in uniform. Who was it that told me that they could not tell me they loved me when I loved you?" He then dodged the 'I love you question' and let me know it was against code for him to show affeection in uniform and that he did not think he would have said this unless he was in uniform. Not the case and I reminded him where and when, that he was not in uniform but this was his reasoning later.

 

Basically it was me venting and I know it will do no good. Even if he tried now I think it is too late. There just been too much hurt. He is about himself, his interests, regardless which I told him and some of those things he sees fit for himself are not fit for a married man to do. I reminded him of his business trip to Holland where the guys were going to stop into a brothal to "have a beer." Married men do not belong in brothals for any reason.

 

Let me ask you RecordProducer, did your husband get fidgetty when he'd see a good looking girl on TV? My husband will either immideiate cross his legs, girl style, I think to keep a reaction supressed, OR he will start rubbing his fingers together and moving his legs. His body language is telling me his thoughts and I find this quite disgusting.

[RecordProducer]

She told me by the way I described my, now, husband that he was passive-aggressive. She told me these people are the hardest to deal with that I needed to walk away.

You know, I was married to the ex-ass for 3 years and when he dumped me, I begged him to reconcile for like 2 years. Reading this stuff brings back some horrible memories and I can't help but think "Wow, this poor woman has endured this for 20 years - and I'm so lucky I got away with it after 3. I am free!" So, you're helping me move on by remidning me what it would've been like for me had I stayed married. But the reason I am telling you this is probably obvious: it's better to be on the other side of the circle when it comes to passive-aggressive men. Also, google Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Control Freek.

 

Today, disappointed by how things went on my birthday, I told my husband...

Listen to yourself. "I told him"..."I told him"..."Itold him".... I went through the same thing. It's always me telling him... him not listening or responding... AVR, they do listen and respond: they find out from your words what's hurting you and they respond by doing it to you. Trust me. In fact, do an experiment. Tell him that something bothers you. Something that doesn't bother you at all, so you can keep your mind clear and cold while observing his reaction. You'll see that he'll start doing that thing religiously. E.g. tell him you don't like it that he parks the car at a certain spot or that he should put the plates in the dish washer. But you have to make it sound like you're really upset about it. He doesn't care about things that don't upset you. So, let him know that something that doesn't upset you - upset you very much. He'll start doing it to you all the time. Even better, find something that you want him to do and tell him NOT to do it. I'm not joking. By contrast, pretend about something that really pisses you off that you actually enjoy it or at least don't mind it. For example, smile kindly and laugh when you see him drop boogers.

 

Basically it was me venting and I know it will do no good. Even if he tried now I think it is too late. There just been too much hurt. He is about himself, his interests, regardless which I told him and some of those things he sees fit for himself are not fit for a married man to do. I reminded him of his business trip to Holland where the guys were going to stop into a brothal to "have a beer." Married men do not belong in brothals for any reason.

You're just revealing your weak spots for him and giving him ammo to hurt you strategically. He wants you to talk so he knows where to stab you. Have you noticed that he never interrupts you while you're telling him how much he's hurting you? It's not only useful info that he gathers against you but it's also music to his ears: you're praising his victories when you're telling him that he has succeeded in his ongoing, life-long mission: to torture you mentally and emotionally.

Let me ask you RecordProducer, did your husband get fidgetty when he'd see a good looking girl on TV? My husband will either immideiate cross his legs, girl style, I think to keep a reaction supressed, OR he will start rubbing his fingers together and moving his legs. His body language is telling me his thoughts and I find this quite disgusting.

You're focusing on the wrong thing because he never showed you that you were a beautiful, desirable woman for him. It's all part of his sick plan: to show you that every woman on earth is better than you. To answer your question, my ex-H would comment, e.g. "Mmmmm... Debra Messing! I'd be messin with Debra Messing!" He did it to piss me off. Once he did it about some gorgeous actress who was playing a high school girl in the movie. The movie was old though and the actress would have been his age now, though. I made a comment that he was a pervert and that the actress in the movie could be his grandaughter. He went silent then and I don't think he ever made gross comments again. From then on, he only commented like "I like Gina Davis" - which is OK. I think it was a matter of me winning the power war: he slapped me and I slapped him harder. Is that what we want from our spouses?

 

This is not about him wanting other women, this is about him hurting you all the time on purpose. And the purpose is to have power over you. On the inside, he is a sick, evil, insecure person who can't achieve peace until he's shattered your world in pieces. Stop obsessing over him and analyzing him. He works in a very primitive way: you show him your weakness and he attacks you right there because he's only happy when you're miserable. Read about the psychology of serial killers who torture their victims before they murder them; I guarantee you that you'll recognize him. He's not physically violent, but he's emotionally violent. Your husband is a sadist. He's emotionally defective. Maybe he could try to change but it would only be because HE would get something from it, not because he can genuinely care about your feelings. He can pretend for a week or a month, but he will NEVER be like you, he will never be what you want him to be. He's a lost cause.

 

And you can have many ups and downs, go back and forth with him, thinking he's changed and whatever, but he will always return to his default shape of a passive-aggressive sadist who will bite you even harder after each episode of giving you false hope and illusion of love. The case is actually not that he doesn't love you - it's just that he loves to torture the woman he loves. Please don't cry over him. He's so not worth it.

 

One more thing... if you find someone else, he'll fight to get you back, but only until he separates you from your lover. Happened to me. We lived together and were married, but he said we were not a couple and I should find another man, we're done. I found a new guy and told the ex immediately about it - more like rubbed it in his face. The ex suddenly, after two years of disinterest and emotional torture, decided he was very much in love with me and wanted me back. Lasted about a week. Six weeks after the "reconciliation," I moved out. We're officially divorced now and he's been dating someone.

 

These people are very manipulative and they know how to charm you, reel you into their web and then poison you slowly and painfully for as long as you're willing to take it.

[The Blue Knight]

Then comes my actual birthday. I was on FaceBook mentioning to husband the birthday wishes, at this point (near noon) he had not wished me a happy birthday and I don't think that is too much to expect on my actual day. He finally says something and I tell him that I was wondering if he was going to say anything. HE TELLS ME THAT WE CELEBRATED ALREADY AND HE DIDN"T THINK HE HAD TO say anything. REALLY?? What an idiot. The day went like any other normal day. As long as he has an audience he is the gentlman, the do-it-all, Mr Pleasant but as soon as it is me and him, forget it, there is no one to impress. He spent the day reading, doing crossword puzzles, always tied up in something. I keep tellin myself my days with this man are limited.

That reveals a lot about him AVR. If he loved you the way he should, he'd be more concerned with always impressing you above all others whether an audience was present or not. Unfortunately, he's not a husband. He's a static entity in your daily life, and little more. A marriage is a partnership centered on love and respect, give and take, and putting the other person first as often as possible. He's struck out on all accounts I'm afraid.

[The Blue Knight]

You're focusing on the wrong thing because he never showed you that you were a beautiful, desirable woman for him. It's all part of his sick plan: to show you that every woman on earth is better than you. To answer your question, my ex-H would comment, e.g. "Mmmmm... Debra Messing! I'd be messin with Debra Messing!" He did it to piss me off. Once he did it about some gorgeous actress who was playing a high school girl in the movie. The movie was old though and the actress would have been his age now, though. I made a comment that he was a pervert and that the actress in the movie could be his grandaughter. He went silent then and I don't think he ever made gross comments again. From then on, he only commented like "I like Gina Davis" - which is OK. I think it was a matter of me winning the power war: he slapped me and I slapped him harder. Is that what we want from our spouses?

 

This is not about him wanting other women, this is about him hurting you all the time on purpose. And the purpose is to have power over you. On the inside, he is a sick, evil, insecure person who can't achieve peace until he's shattered your world in pieces. Stop obsessing over him and analyzing him. He works in a very primitive way: you show him your weakness and he attacks you right there because he's only happy when you're miserable. Read about the psychology of serial killers who torture their victims before they murder them; I guarantee you that you'll recognize him. He's not physically violent, but he's emotionally violent. Your husband is a sadist. He's emotionally defective. Maybe he could try to change but it would only be because HE would get something from it, not because he can genuinely care about your feelings. He can pretend for a week or a month, but he will NEVER be like you, he will never be what you want him to be. He's a lost cause.

 

Let me add to what RP is saying by suggesting that many times these types of men want to make you feel inferior and to chip your self-esteem down to nothing.

 

Many times the motive isn't what you think. Often it's because they themselves want you to have such a poor self image of yourself that the thought of you ever trying to be with another man is out of the question in your mind.

 

Men who are insecure will sometimes use tactics like these so that the woman in their lives won't ever consider straying . . . mentally, emotionally, or physically.

 

Other times they are as RP said, just plain evil and they get off on making you feel miserable.

 

But his motives really aren't what you should be worrying about anyway. Worry about you and getting yourself healthy and happy. By you always trying to figure out what's going on in his head, you've played right into what he wants you to do . . . worry all day about what makes him tick. At this point in your life after two decades of misery, who cares what makes him tick?

[RecordProducer]

Let me add to what RP is saying by suggesting that many times these types of men want to make you feel inferior and to chip your self-esteem down to nothing.

 

Many times the motive isn't what you think. Often it's because they themselves want you to have such a poor self image of yourself that the thought of you ever trying to be with another man is out of the question in your mind.

 

Men who are insecure will sometimes use tactics like these so that the woman in their lives won't ever consider straying . . . mentally, emotionally, or physically.

 

Oh, absolutely! All of this is part of his personality and agenda! I don't think he's plain evil.

 

Where is she anyway? He didn't kill her, did he?

[The Blue Knight]

Oh, absolutely! All of this is part of his personality and agenda! I don't think he's plain evil.

 

Where is she anyway? He didn't kill her, did he?

 

She makes infrequent occasional stops

[AVR1962]

Thanks to both of you for all your help. I think you both have tapped into exactly what has been going on in my marriage. If I tell him anything bothers me he does do it more and I notice he will do these things less when I am not in the same room. I always thought it was a way to keep me distant physically but I wasn't seeing it as being purposely hateful but I think you are right.

 

Why do other people not see this in my husband? They think he is a great guy and I know I will be the one blamed and not supported if I take steps the leave his sorry behind.

 

Since mentioning to him that n our 22 years together he has never once told me he loves me to my face, he has been pouting around the house like I did something to him, acting all detached, even more than usual. I think it is his way of getting me to cave and go to him but I am not doing it. I have done in in the past and it solves nothing. He wants me to chanse him and I am done with this game.

 

Guys don't give up on me. I have found your advise to be very helpful. BlueKnight I am in a position where have been very loyal and I have nevr thought of cheating or even hve thoughts of another man. I've not had much luck though and that scares me a little bit. My first husband is a narcissits to a T and still will haunt me after 25 years of being divorced, if I make any contact with him. I then got involved with a man who was seriously danagerous and I ended up being stocked. I know my inlaws would support their brother no matter what he does. He could break my arm, kill someone or rape some woman and they'd be right by his side blaming me for making him do whatever it was. How does that happen? Even my family sees my husband as a great guy. Any insight?

[AVR1962]

Now that I think about some things he told me in the beginning of our relationship, I think they were lies to set the stage. He told me that one of his sisters and a good friend of his didn't see what interest I would have in him and they wanted to make sure I wasn't out just to seek somoene to support me and my children. He told me that another friend of his thought I was a bit of whore. He said that he had never dated in the 3 years since his divorce, that he knew he wasn't the type that women were attacted to. He told me how lazy his first wife was and how she wanted evrything but didn't want to work. I saw pics of their old furniture and investing in something better should have been out of the question but with husband everyone else is at fault. He paints the picture that he is a really a great guy and makes pople feel sorry for him. I think the thing he told me his family and friends said were probably not even said, they were probably thoughts in his head and ways to control mne right from the start.

 

I have thru an awful lot, more than I have written here. Counselor said it was a wonder I was even still alive. She said it was not uncommon for a person to take their own life as much as I have endured and trust me I have been there, something I did not share with her.

 

I was diagnosed with Celiac this past Sept, got really sick in Feb and docs could not figure what was wrong so I am still coming back from a very bad spot healthwise and while I am making progress, it has been slow. I think the celiac was triggered aftr years of on-going stress and finally my body sharted shutting down on itself.

[Fabian Montenegro]

My first husband is a narcissits to a T and still will haunt me after 25 years of being divorced

 

Repeat behaviour on your end.

 

Why do other people not see this in my husband?

He's a good actor. He's manipulative. Psychologically abusive. He's also intelligent enough to pick codependent types such as yourself carefully.

 

I don't know. Your mother really did a number on your head.

 

Men who are insecure will sometimes use tactics like these so that the woman in their lives won't ever consider straying . . . mentally, emotionally, or physically.

Plenty of times you see the reverse. Incredibly secure men that are so egotistical that they feel the need to force their way onto everybody else. Or their SO at least.