Men, why are you such commitment-phobes?

[Forever Learning]

Who said anything about commitment being the same as marriage?

 

I was married for 24 years....I hated it.

 

I won't do it again...but I certainly won't just f*ck my way thru the rest of my life and not be exclusive with someone to avoid loving loving them.

That's what commitment phobia is about.

 

I am happily unmarried and committed to the man I am with now and have been for 3 years. No pressure to stay,no reason to leave.

 

Great insight. Had the same marriage experience as you. Smarter now, getting smarter every day ( trying anyway ).

 

You make great points, and it all makes total sense considering your (and my) marriage experience. I haven't ruled out marriage in my future, I do hope for it again someday. A happy one. I don't know if I could do the "Goldie Hawn / Kurt Russell (or Oprah / Stedman) thing forever. Did it for 8 years of the 16 year marriage. But that's just me.

 

And my world of interests in life is big, I enjoy so much in life, and I am thankful for that ability in myself. Life is fun. Life is bigger than just my 'relationship'. But life is sweeter to experience with someone you enjoy being with. Lesson I learned. It sucks experiencing it with a loser, who you are 'hoping' will shape up someday (doesn't happen). Another tough lesson learned.

 

OP, if you're still reading, what do you define a 'serious relationship' as? I ask because I have been in what I felt were 'serious relationships', meaning we expressed our love to each other, were apparently monogamous sexually and presented to the world as BF/GF and those relationships paled in comparison to the realities of being in a committed M. For a man, proposing marriage is a huge step in announcing his commitment to a lady. How do you feel about that? Have times changed?

 

Great point. I do think most people view marriage differently ( 'higher commitment level" mostly) than they do a long term boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. I've done both so that's why I say that - my experience.

 

Marriage is a leap that is taken and requires bravery alot of times. It demonstrates a commitment level to the world. Strange but true, just a worldwide concept (marriage) thats been around since the dawn of time pretty much. Not saying its good or bad, just at a higher level of commitment (for males particularly - the male mind likes the 'ownership' part of it I guess). Men want the "title" to the car, not just to drive it around without ownership papers. Just my opinion.

 

Should. What a pointless word.

 

You crack me up all the time. God bless you. Love it. Betterdeal, you are great. Your comments around here add alot of funny to the mix.

[nofool4u]

Who said anything about commitment being the same as marriage?

 

I was married for 24 years....I hated it.

 

well tell us, besides a piece of paper, what is different about commitment than marriage?

 

is it the idea that vows say you are to forsake all others?

 

besides being "official", commitment and marriage are pretty much the same thing.

 

was it the filing jointly thing you didn't like?

[TrueColors]

Who in the heck called you Dreamergirl?

 

Talk about outing yourself!!!

 

Yeah, she totally shot herself in the foot with that one.

Edited October 13, 2011 by TrueColors

[stillafool]

There is a girl that he works with actually.... who is a Christian conservative and is engaged to a liberal guy who says religion sucks.

 

This is what I want.

 

I've never heard of a Christian person who wants to be with a liberal person who thinks religion sucks. How ridiculous is that?

 

First of all the guy and girl you are referring to are in love and that's why they are trying to make the impossible work. If your "friend" had had romantic feelings towards you he would have done everything he could to at least date you. Why? Because that's what men do when they want a woman. This guy never saw you more than just a friend and that's why he feels comfortable discussing his new girlfriend with you.

 

Why don't you have more friends from your church home? How old are you BTW?

[Reuben Kinkaid]

I've never heard of a Christian person who wants to be with a liberal person who thinks religion sucks. How ridiculous is that?

 

First of all the guy and girl you are referring to are in love and that's why they are trying to make the impossible work. If your "friend" had had romantic feelings towards you he would have done everything he could to at least date you. Why? Because that's what men do when they want a woman. This guy never saw you more than just a friend and that's why he feels comfortable discussing his new girlfriend with you.

 

Why don't you have more friends from your church home? How old are you BTW?

 

I know a couple that's been married for 15 years and who have two kids. The wife is fairly religious, Christian and liberal. The husband is atheist, raised Jewish and somewhat conservative or at least further right than his wife.

 

There are all kinds of people and all kids of combinations. We cannot control who or even what we fall in love with. If you can think it, it exists.

[Woggle]

Why would somebody want a person with completely opposite beliefs. It can work but often it doesn't. I do know a liberal woman though who likes republican men because she claims liberals are sissies.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I've never heard of a Christian person who wants to be with a liberal person who thinks religion sucks. How ridiculous is that?

 

Especially since our OP has expressed with vehemence her disrespect and disregard for ANY belief system other than her own.

 

LynnieBear, why do you think a self-respecting man who is comfortable with his own values and beliefs would choose to be with a woman who thinks anything other than absolutely fundamentalistic Christianity and all of its socio-political trappings is "stupld"?

 

AND, even choose to not have a sexual relationship without being married, even if he does not believe in that?

 

Not to mention, I sincerely would like to hear you answer to my question about how you will reconcile Jesus' instructions about being "equally yoked" with your desire to have a husband (I guess "boyfriend" is not even in your lexicon) who is not of the same belief system that you are.

 

How?

[TrueColors]

I know a couple that's been married for 15 years and who have two kids. The wife is fairly religious, Christian and liberal. The husband is atheist, raised Jewish and somewhat conservative or at least further right than his wife.

 

There are all kinds of people and all kids of combinations. We cannot control who or even what we fall in love with. If you can think it, it exists.

 

My parents were both raised Christians, but different denominations. My dad was raised as Protestant while my mom is Catholic. My dad totally ridiculed the Catholic faith. I think it secretly hurt my mom, but she would never admit to it and just ignored him. They stayed together though.

 

Marriage between different faiths/non-faiths can work, but it can be very difficult if one is devoutly religious and the other indifferent. They'd have to share other values too to be able to tolerate this. Luckily, my parents valued responsibility and a 2-parent household, which I think is what kept them going.

[stillafool]

 

There are all kinds of people and all kids of combinations. We cannot control who or even what we fall in love with. If you can think it, it exists.

 

Obviously I know that and that's why I said what's below. However, both people have to be in love. That is not the case with OP.

 

 

First of all the guy and girl you are referring to are in love and that's why they are trying to make the impossible work.

[Reuben Kinkaid]

My parents were both raised Christians, but different denominations. My dad was raised as Protestant while my mom is Catholic. My dad totally ridiculed the Catholic faith. I think it secretly hurt my mom, but she would never admit to it and just ignored him. They stayed together though.

 

Marriage between different faiths/non-faiths can work, but it can be very difficult if one is devoutly religious and the other indifferent. They'd have to share other values too to be able to tolerate this. Luckily, my parents valued responsibility and a 2-parent household, which I think is what kept them going.

 

Marriage itself is difficult. If it's not differences in religion or religious fervor, there will be other differences between spouses that will test the marriage. No one marries a carbon copy of themselves, besides who would want to?

[Reuben Kinkaid]

Obviously I know that and that's why I said what's below. However, both people have to be in love. That is not the case with OP.

 

You're right, if there's no love there's no reason to make a square peg fit a round hole.

[LynnieBear]

Who in the heck called you Dreamergirl?

 

Talk about outing yourself!!!

 

Someone else did, in another thread, I got their screen names mixed up...

 

erika somebody...

[LynnieBear]

Because I believe in God, but I don't like organized religion. I don't like going to church, I don't like "worshiping the Lord", I don't like any of it.

 

I would rather do very secular things, with the belief of God as a personal belief of my own in the background, not as "out there" as the majority of my Christian friends.

 

I don't post bible verses all over my page, in fact, I don't post anything God related hardly at all...

 

I simply have a belief in a higher power and will probably never be considered atheist or agnostic. I just don't believe "nothing" came from "nothing". It seems as absurd as the belief in God does to those type of people.

 

The friend in question, we have a lot in common. I'm not gonna list all of them, but I could give you a list 50 pages long. He doesn't see it, though. Idk why, either.

 

Maybe he is just not attracted to me. (I have a hard time believing this, because I'm a bit big headed and think I'm the most attractive thing on the planet... )

 

No seriously, body dismorphic disorder is definitely not something I will EVER suffer from...

 

Anyway... Our beliefs aren't that different, but he's not ready for commitment. He's not ready to be married and I can't (won't) get serious with someone who isn't. Because I am ready for that.

 

He has a lot of differences from me as well... but I believe we could work on those.

 

He was raised a lot different, with very different values and his family is sort of... weird.

 

He didn't exactly come from quite as loving of a home as I did. It's easy to say "yes I wanna be married and yes I believe in love (even love at first sight) and yes I believe in soul mates" when you've lived a perfect, rose colored/painted life with 2 parents that love each other.

 

He hasn't exactly lived this.

 

Therefor he seeks "love" in many different places than I do. He wants to move and is willing to live with basically, just, peers.

 

I couldn't do that. I would have to move out with a really close friend, or a boyfriend, preferably a husband as I don't really want to live with a boyfriend unmarried.

 

I've just had an excellent life and marriage and commitment and "neediness" doesn't scare me away. In fact, the more someone "needs" me, the more turned on I get.

 

I'm surprised I don't like the "nice guys". And that's not entirely true... I dated 2 of 'em. They were just older and ready for something serious way before I was. But I will forever hold them at the highest level of anyone I've ever gone out with.

 

I've basically found myself a "fixer upper". As girls tend to do. I found me a broken guy and I wanna fix him.

 

There's just a lot of values and morals that are instilled in me that aren't in him...

 

But part of me thinks he is acting and will grow out of it.... only time will tell.

 

 

He's a lot younger than me. He does have a lot of growing up to do. So, maybe it will happen. I really don't care right now and am just enjoying his friendship.

 

The "googly" eyes have come off, but they were on for almost 2 years.

[LynnieBear]

The problem with "nice guy" + "good girl" = failure.

 

Good girls love bad boys. Because it's the opposite of them. Who wants to date their clone? How boring would that be?

 

Nice guys turn me off because they are too much like me and I wind up feeling like I'm dating my family member.

 

So, naturally, I tend to fall for people who have different belief systems and can "teach" me something that I have not already learned.

 

2+2 doesn't always equal 4 in the law of attraction

 

as someone else already stated in other words.

[carhill]

How do compatible emotional and personality styles obviate different belief systems and life experience pathways? People can have markedly different life paths and commensurate knowledge/experience/interests/whatever and still have similar styles of relating to each other.

 

TBH, the only reason I messed with 'bad girls' at all was simply because the 'good girls' around here were all taken. I thought I married one who, by age 40, had successfully 'reformed' herself. LOL. I'll give her credit; she tried.

 

It's possible to ignore certain unhealthy attractions. The feelings are valid. One merely processes those feelings as unhealthy and behaves to validate that processing. If that consistently, with other potentials ignored due to 'lack of attraction', returns a subset of zero, then look in the mirror for the commonality in the dynamic. Bingo.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I simply have a belief in a higher power and will probably never be considered atheist or agnostic. I just don't believe "nothing" came from "nothing". It seems as absurd as the belief in God does to those type of people.

 

Really.

 

That's certainly not how you've been presenting yourself here on LS since you've arrived.

 

If you're so open and free about these things, then perhaps it would benefit you to explore some different ways of living life - if you seriously want to attract and be with a man who is not an absolute fundie, as you seem to be.

 

Open people like other open people.

[Woggle]

The kind of good girls who love bad boys are not so good. They are simply sheltered or repressed for whatever reason and bad boys represent a world that is alien and fascinating to them. Give them a tast of life on the dark side and they go completely wild. A good woman might have more experience but she holds her composure regardless. There really is no point in getting worked up about men being commitment-phobes when you are not attracted to the opposite anyway.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Anyway, the facts that a guy might want to have sex … or, forget about sex, he might want to kiss a girl he likes a lot and has feelings for does not exactly make him a "bad boy."

 

Neither does the reality that such a guy is unlikely to be interested in a girl who doesn't believe in kissing before marriage. One who, in fact, thinks that people who do such things as kiss (or have sex) if not married are "stupid."

 

It's not a question of bad / good guy. It's an issue of an absolute mismatch in every way.

 

I'm pretty sure that this particular guy will be having a nice and happy future with a woman who shares similar values with him sometime.

[TrueColors]

The kind of good girls who love bad boys are not so good. They are simply sheltered or repressed for whatever reason and bad boys represent a world that is alien and fascinating to them. Give them a tast of life on the dark side and they go completely wild. A good woman might have more experience but she holds her composure regardless.

 

Agree.

 

Lynnie, can you define for us exactly what your vision of a "bad boy" is?

 

Just because someone has different beliefs than your own, does this make them "bad"?

 

Why see the world in black and white? Good and evil when there's plenty of grey inbetween?

 

 

There really is no point in getting worked up about men being commitment-phobes when you are not attracted to the opposite anyway.

 

I'm surprised I don't like the "nice guys". And that's not entirely true... I dated 2 of 'em. They were just older and ready for something serious way before I was.

 

Exactly. So this shows that OP has commitment phobic tendencies too.

 

Not so "opposite attract" as she imagines herself to be.

[TrueColors]

The problem with "nice guy" + "good girl" = failure.

 

Good girls love bad boys. Because it's the opposite of them. Who wants to date their clone? How boring would that be?

 

Nice guys turn me off because they are too much like me and I wind up feeling like I'm dating my family member.

 

So, naturally, I tend to fall for people who have different belief systems and can "teach" me something that I have not already learned.

 

2+2 doesn't always equal 4 in the law of attraction

 

as someone else already stated in other words.

 

Again I have to ask: just because someone is "nice", that means they're boring?

 

So if you consider your own self "nice" then you are admitting you're boring?

 

And as for teaching you something, you can learn that from anyone else who doesn't share your views: teachers, friends, people who aren't like you. Why restrict that to just your future husband?

 

Sounds very submissive to me. Are you looking for an equal or a father-figure?

 

Btw, your friend is teaching you something:that opposites don't always attract (from his point of view).

[TrueColors]

Maybe he is just not attracted to me.

Yes, I believe this to be true.

 

Lie #1

(I have a hard time believing this, because I'm a bit big headed and think I'm the most attractive thing on the planet... )

 

No seriously, body dismorphic disorder is definitely not something I will EVER suffer from...

- Not according to your other thread.

 

 

Lie #2

Anyway... Our beliefs aren't that different, but he's not ready for commitment.

- if they weren't why isn't he falling at your feet? What beliefs do you both share then?

 

Lie #3

He's not ready to be married and I can't (won't) get serious with someone who isn't.Because I am ready for that.

- After 2 years, you've already seriously committed yourself to him emotionally and still long for the day he changes his mind about you.

And no, you only think you are.

 

 

He has a lot of differences from me as well... but I believe we could work on those.

As in learning to tolerate both your differences - or changing his views to match your own?

 

He was raised a lot different, with very different values and his family is sort of... weird.

Weird = different to your own upbringing?

 

 

Lie #4

He didn't exactly come from quite as loving of a home as I did. It's easy to say "yes I wanna be married and yes I believe in love (even love at first sight) and yes I believe in soul mates" whenyou've lived a perfect, rose colored/painted life with 2 parents that love each other.

- Are you talking about your own life here? Because I seriously doubt that it has been, otherwise you wouldn't continually post on LS complaining about the same guy for 2 years.

 

I'm curious to know, how are your parents towards you? What have they taught you about relationships?

 

He hasn't exactly lived this.

 

Therefor he seeks "love" in many different places than I do. He wants to move and is willing to live with basically, just, peers.

 

I couldn't do that. I would have to move out with a really close friend, or a boyfriend, preferably a husband as I don't really want to live with a boyfriend unmarried.

So he's entitled to his choice of lifestyle as you are to yours. This would only be an issue to you if you find his actions intolerable. Would you hold his lifestyle choice against him?

 

 

Lie #5

I've just had an excellent life and marriage and commitment and "neediness" doesn't scare me away. In fact, the more someone "needs" me, the more turned on I get.

- all your posts smack of insecurity. About yourself, your upbringing and about this guy's (non) romantic feelings about you.

 

"Neediness" isn't conducive to a healthy relationship. You want someone to be co-dependent on you? Are you looking to "mother" someone? That in itself is a serious issue.

Besides, you still haven't answered my previous question on why you get turned off by guys you initially wanted to date (e.g. the "6 year crush" guy).

 

I'm surprised I don't like the "nice guys". And that's not entirely true... I dated 2 of 'em. They were just older and ready for something serious way before I was. But I will forever hold them at the highest level of anyone I've ever gone out with.

 

I've basically found myself a "fixer upper". As girls tend to do. I found me a broken guy and I wanna fix him.

That's not love. That's a project. Why are you treating him like a run down house instead of a human being who is completely responsible for himself?

 

If you want to "fix" anyone, it should be yourself.

 

There's just a lot of values and morals that are instilled in me that aren't in him...

So? Are you looking to "instil" these in your future husband?

 

But part of me thinks he is acting and will grow out of it.... only time will tell.

And how long are you willing to wait for this to happen?

 

Lie #6

He's a lot younger than me. He does have a lot of growing up to do. So, maybe it will happen. I really don't care right now and am just enjoying his friendship.

 

The "googly" eyes have come off, but they were on for almost 2 years.

- so why are you still posting about him and getting depressed over why he's not with you?

 

 

Lynnie, why do you continually lie to yourself like this?

Edited October 16, 2011 by TrueColors

[LynnieBear]

Lynnie, why do you continually lie to yourself like this?

 

TrueColors...

 

BECAUSE I WASN'T ATTRACTED PHYSICALLY

 

crimony, how many times do I have to spell it out to you?

[TrueColors]

Lynnie, why do you continually lie to yourself like this?

 

TrueColors...

 

BECAUSE I WASN'T ATTRACTED PHYSICALLY

 

crimony, how many times do I have to spell it out to you?

 

So you admit you are lying to yourself?

 

Your reponse makes no sense. To which of my points are you referring to with your above comment?

 

Everyone here has asked you some pretty relevent questions about yourself which you continually avoid answering. Questions pertaining to your beliefs, your life, your background, why you are not building a constructive life for yourself (as you have said you do not currently work, study or go to church).

 

A pretty secure person would be happy to discuss this in a thoughtful manner and ask questions in a civil way if one does not understand or does not agree.

 

I see nothing like this from you. I don't believe you want to find someone to teach you anything. You seem to just want to convince this guy that you're right and that you believe you know what's best for him.

 

That's not love. That's a serious control issue.

[KR10N]

So you admit you are lying to yourself?

 

Your reponse makes no sense. To which of my points are you referring to with your above comment?

 

Everyone here has asked you some pretty relevent questions about yourself which you continually avoid answering. Questions pertaining to your beliefs, your life, your background, why you are not building a constructive life for yourself (as you have said you do not currently work, study or go to church).

 

A pretty secure person would be happy to discuss this in a thoughtful manner and ask questions in a civil way if one does not understand or does not agree.

I see nothing like this from you. I don't believe you want to find someone to teach you anything. You seem to just want to convince this guy that you're right and that you believe you know what's best for him.

 

That's not love. That's a serious control issue.

I remember reading an article about two young people who had been friends since high school. The author was the young lady that had a male friend who had told her that he had a crush on her. It eventually played out as he "knew" what was best for her. He "knew" she secretly loved him. This young woman denied said feelings, thus angering her friend. The article ended w/ a statement from the author saying she had ended their friendship w/ a restraining order.

 

It is not wise to push yourself on to someone... unless you truly want to lose a friend.

 

If I find the article I will post it.

[Mme. Chaucer]

There is a tremendous amount of inconsistency, or outright dishonesty.

 

OP, I have read posts from you where you say that:

 

You won't kiss before marriage.

 

You don't believe that people are actually gay, it's a "lifestyle."

 

You believe that women should not work outside the home.

 

You believe that men are inherently more intelligent than women, across the board.

 

You believe that all people who follow a different set of values than those followed by the generally fundamentalist Christians are "stupid," and their values are "wrong."

 

ARE THESE YOUR BELIEFS, OR ARE THEY NOT?

 

If they are, you are patently unattractive to any liberal thinking person. You just are, and always will be. If you really are gorgeous and flawless physically (which is evidently up for debate as well) a liberal thinking person might recognize that. So what. They would never want to spend any time with you, much less a lifetime.

 

What are your interests, passions, hobbies? What makes you a GREAT person to spend time with, for ANYONE?

 

What is it that makes you believe that someone who has nothing at all, even minutely, in common with you, and whose values you disrespect, would somehow decide to MARRY you? Or even go to a movie with you?

 

Aargh.

 

Maybe you ought to think about some therapy.