Wife is about to make it physical.

[Memphis Raines]

For those of you who advocate kicking her out, changing the locks, etc. that’s a no go coz here in Canada you cannot kick out the spouse from the shared home.

 

 

nor can you here either in the States. Its just a figure of speech that when we say, "kick her out", we mean to divorce her.

 

Now that doesn't mean you can't ask her to pack her bags and go see if she will go willingly;)

 

 

 

Secondly, when filing on grounds of adultery, the onus is on the BS to provide irrefutable evidence (i.e. video/photos of her getting nailed) in order to win. Other wise it’s a “No fault” divorce.

 

thats why they add in the ability to file under mental cruelty. dont need proof. it doesn't matter. its just a reason to file. Nobody has to stay married with anyone and don't need to show "good reason".

 

you could file under mental cruelty if she called you a dick just once. or hell, even if she didn't. she ever raise her voice to you? mental cruelty.

 

now are those really mental cruelty? no. but doesn't matter. You can file under MC, and her attorney can deny it, and the divorce goes forward.

[Equinox]

So, contacted a good lawyer yet?

 

now are those really mental cruelty? no. but doesn't matter. You can file under MC, and her attorney can deny it, and the divorce goes forward.

Might want to carry a tape recorder and start gathering more dirt on her IMO. If you're comfortable with playing dirty that is.

 

Odds are, she will be trying to catch you out too. Protect yourself.

 

Ah, the beauty of the mid-life crisis...

[sillysmart]

Hey good job! The look of confusion was wow he is serious. I wanted to key in on the fact that she said you did not fight for me. IT seems a big struggle for marriage is the whole taking for granted thing. Being wrong not admitting it taking her for granted stuff. Well she obviously brewed about this a long time. In some way she must have been trying to get your attention maybe for a long time. She needed some passion I guess. Well anyway she is trying to evade the subject by saying ultimatum. She is trying to undermine your confidence. By what you said don't even take it to this family or not. It is you and her. Tell her to tell you more how you did not fight for her before and that she is just a possession.

Maybe there is something about her intelligence or some way she has tried to change or grow you have not acknowledged. Maybe she was feeling undesirable. I don;t know but ask her and listen and then tell her thanks for telling me how you feel. I am going to think about it. IF she asked then if she can go on the trip tell her that is not something you have to think about you are absolutely sure about that. Deep down she will view all of this as fighting for her. And believe me you are. Don't give up on your marriage. Finding out this stuff at this point is awesome because it is not too late. Good for you.

IF she caves in and cancels the trip then go to counseling. ONe of the best intervetnions a therapist gave me and my husband was to kind of pretend we just met each other and do the things like when we were first in love. Go back to the first love where you did not take her for granted.

[sparten]

Interesting. This is very, very similar to my situation 6 years ago. Except it was a business trip my wife went on and had to go on again. And in the 5 years post divorce (with two kids) I've seen the same thing happen to many couples. The wife looking for validation picks up and leaves. Almost always with an emotional support.

 

What I would suggest is focusing 90% on the steps you have coming and 10% on finding emotional support (friends, family, even a lover)

 

1) Where are you going to live? Someone has to move out soon or you'll go crazy. If it's you-find an easy place to manage because you are going to be busy. If you have a big house maybe you let her stay and take care of it til it sells and you split the money.

 

2) The Cuban won't work out so expect her to be dating before you are divorced officially. Many women hate being alone very long.

 

3) Lawyers are expensive. In the states you can write your own papers and have a mediator check them for less than $400. There is no-fault divorce here so it doesn't matter who did what.

 

4) The most painful thing I've ever had to do was tell my kids and not really be able to tell them why.

 

5) Childcare and child support. I have 50/50 custody--what is your plan?

 

6) Don't isolate yourself or you'll get depressed.

 

7) You've taken control of the divorce proceeding. It's her fault so do it.

 

8) There are some great women out there to replace her and they'd love to meet you. Seriously!

 

More later... good luck

[jnj express]

Hey Van---the look of bewilderment on her face, is a little bit of reality, is seeping thru---into her adalpated brain

 

Do the following now, as she is spose to leave next week, am I right

 

Go on line and print out a blank Canadian Divorce packet---leave it in the house where she cannot help but find it

 

Cut off all her CC's----take all marital finances, and I mean all, and put them in an acct with only your name on it-------cancel the checking acct, and open a new one in your name only

 

Dry her up financially so she will have no funds at her disposal should she go on the trip

 

Re-iterate again with icy cold calm---If she gets on that plane the mge is over then and there

 

She ain't gonna like you for a while, but it will give you some time to sort things out---and decide which way YOU wanna go

[Steadfast]

I said “Whatever! The decision is yours. If you are set on going then let me know ASAP so that I can work out the details regarding selling the house, finances, children, etc...” At this point she had a somewhat bewildered look on her face. I can’t quite put a finger on it, but I think it was a look of confusion, fear or disbelief. Or it could easily be the look of “F**k him! I need to figure out how to screw him before I get screwed legally”

 

I can relate well to your situation. Like your wife, my ex was strong willed, stubborn and bolstered by her physical beauty. When her heart was directed towards me she was passionately faithful, but when she changed course (impossible in real love) she became passionately unfaithful. In due time you will realize what I eventually came to understand; there is no control. You can't make someone love you.

 

FWIW, and especially so soon after the discovery, I am astounded by your vision and clarity in handling this. It took me considerably longer, but I was thrown just enough bread crumbs to keep me off balance. All of it; the revised history, the blame shifting and her fury over me invading her privacy all ring familiar and come straight from the cheaters handbook. You are right; at this point it makes NO DIFFERENCE if she's slept with him or not. The real damage -what's inside of her head and heart- are the factors destroying your marriage. The rest is revoltingly predictable.

 

When what is happening in your marriage surfaces we tend to place too much motivation/blame upon the affair partner. The truth is, your wife was looking to step out before she ever met Ricky Ricardo. Even the happiest of spouses can develop crushes; but those with real love, respect and vision know and recognize the dangers of their desire and avoid the temptation. This is a good wife, true to her word in both deed and action. Unfortunately, it appears your wife is not made up of this.

 

In my opinion, your wife is lost. That isn't to say she couldn't snap out of it, but if history is any indication, she won't. At least, not anytime soon. Sometime post divorce it'll probably hit her like a ton but by then you'll be long gone. Deep down inside she knows this and it frightens her.

 

My advice? Stay the course. Let her go. Do not discuss the marriage or your relationship with her any longer. Give her what she wants; complete control and the ultimate decision regarding her future. Adopt the attitude that your marriage is over and begin the process of separation and divorce. It is critical to remain kind and exercise self-control for both you and your children. If she comes to you in genuine remorse and wants to repair the relationship, you'll have new decisions to make. Right now, she's gone.

 

This is a good place to visit for support, venting and encouragement.

[StoneCold]

Cut off all her CC's----take all marital finances, and I mean all, and put them in an acct with only your name on it-------cancel the checking acct, and open a new one in your name only

 

 

Um, I'm not sure where you live or what era you are living in (perhaps the one where women owned nothing). But what you are suggesting is kind of not possible if the finances are joint (which they most likely are.....and if they arent joint he wouldnt have access to it anyway). She would have to be in agreement to do this stuff. The only thing he could really mess with would be the chequing account but thats half her money and if she calls up the bank and tells them she suspects her estranged husband of fraudulent behaviour and moving the monies elsewhere it could end up being a pain in this guy's side; not to mention it will just make the divorce process uglier, longer and thus more expensive. Last thing you want to do is add things to quarel over because as trite as it may appear....everything gets nit picked during a nasty divorce. I've seen people spend 10s of thousands on a divorce because they are being nit picky babies. One client of mine is 70Gs and counting...

 

Lawyers 1, Poor saps 0.....for those of you looking at a career change...consider family law; you'll make a MINT (Estate Law is good too...lots of fighting, hold ups, back and forths and spent time...billable hours yaaay)....

 

Just keep it as clean as possible

[jnj express]

You can cancel CC's---with ease nowadays---and yes you can close and re-open bank accts, specially if you are known at the branch----as to what happens down the line---I don't think he is worried about that at this point

[Tech_E]

Watch out for the posters on here that suggest doing radical and rash things. They can get you into a world of hurt.

 

It sounds to me like you have done your research on the divorce laws here in Canada, so you know them. Fair enough. Question, have you consulted an attourney yet? If not, do so. They will help you no matter what you decide.

 

Make no mistake about it that look she gave you was coming from MANY places, not the least of which are the fact that you are taking away her fantasy! I mean how dare you! Once our account become established I can PM you some further information which might prove helpful.

 

Good luck.

[Vanhandle]

Update:

 

Later that day, she sent me this message from work:

We need to cool down; we both have responsibilities in front of our kids! We need to look for a compromise and not to make hasty decisions. We both have our point of view and feelings on the trip but we are stuck on them. However nothing good will come to any of us if we continue to behave this way. And most importantly our kids are the ones who are going to get hurt most! And just for their sake I am willing to discuss other options.

Here is how I see things.

We can't sell the house; we’d lose too much money!

I propose to wait till I come back and see how the things are sitting with YOU then. I don't have doubts on my part and I don't want to end the marriage and will not be going to do anything that will compromise it.

I even am willing to shorten the trip.

Let me know your thoughts.

When I came home from work she was pouting, fatigued and looked as if she’d been crying. An hour later she made dinner with gusto, asking me nicely if I wanted my favourite dish, would I like to drink wine with her, etc… We all sat for dinner (rare with the kids running around) and had a lovely family sit down. Throughout the evening she was constantly looking at me searching my eyes, as if she’s saying to herself “Is he serious about what he said this morning. Is he really going to do this?” I avoided eye contact and continued playing the kids in the living room. Once the kids went to sleep, she sat down on the sofa next to me and said “we need to discuss this”. Nice change that was, coz I was the one who always initiated talks. As usual, the whole ordeal was rehashed, with her rewriting our history, denying anything happened, and blaming me for whatever happened in our marriage prior to the previous trip. According to her, I was neglectful of her and the relationship, I didn’t care, blah, blah, blah. I tried to keep my cool but got sucked into the conversation and tried to rebut her twisted arguments. At some point past midnight, she started to cry and said “You know what? I will cancel this trip, but we will get divorced immediately!!” and stormed out to have a smoke. I followed her and replied calmly “No problem. If this trip is SO important to you that you’re willing to divorce then let’s do it.” She was silent for a while, talked about different aspects of the topic and then we both headed to sleep. In bed, she softened her tone and started to say that I meant the world to her and that I am an integral part of her live. That she can't imagine living without me and this family. She loves how we are living, the life we have and the family we created. Once I got into bed, I lay there staring at the ceiling and said “You know what? I’m beginning to like your idea of you canceling the trip and we get divorced thereafter”. She snuggled close to me and said “I do not want to divorce you! I do not want to live without you. You are an amazing father, a great husband and a lovely man.” With that, I turned over and said “Thanks and good night!”

 

As it stands right now, she is not canceling and will be going. I have decided in my head and heart that this is over. I will start all legal matters while she is away without any rush. I will make sure to cover all my bases and be ready for her with the papers. I have my PI ready and hopefully he’ll get the necessary "dirt" for leverage in negotiations during the divorce. I know some of are going to say “What does it matter what the PI gets, you’re letting her go to get f**ked by this guy” I know, but like someone here said, I cannot control her decisions but I can make sure she sees (visually) what a f**king colossal mistake she made.

 

@Sparten – thanks for the encouragement. Yes she is looking for validation, but I think it’s more than that. She needed the passion of the “new”. To be in fantasy land without the stickiness of daily routines, nagging kids and husband. We married when she was 25 and I guess she’s thinking that she missed out on “other” things, be it dating, traveling or plain no-strings-attached sex. Something along that line.

 

@Steadfast – Wow, you are describing my wife to a tee. You so right about no control and that you cannot make someone love you. And yes, it makes no difference whether she did it or not. The trust and dedication has been broken. The fear on her face confirms that she knows that she will rue the day this happened but unfortunately she is so lost emotionally that her judgment is f**ked! That is partly the reason I am not giving up. I married this woman and have lived with her for 17 years. I know this is not her but some alien virus that has taken over her body and mind. 17 yrs is one hell of chunk of my life that I cannot just give up without a fight. What is heartbreaking is to see such a smart woman go so low with her lies, deception and overall messed up behaviour. And for what? Some 25 yr old guy who could technically be her son? Yeah, it’s the thrill that is driving her. That feeling of dating, first this and that, no strings attached, etc…

Steadfast (and others) - I have a question for you. You say let her go. Even if comes back remorseful and wants to fix this relationship, how can you forgive her? Can you really? After all that’s happened? The plotting, scheming and denial in the face of proof?

 

 

 

@Tech_E - You're dead on about the look - Its a combo of fear and of "how dare he". Don't worry, I won't do anything radical or rash. I'm not that kind of person. Besides, too much is at stake. Thanks for your offer of help. I will wait until I am established.

 

 

My good friend (the only person who knows what’s going on) recently said to me “What ever happens; happens for a reason!” We’ll soon find out.

 

Thanks everyone for your feedback. You have all been very insightful and encouraging. Forgive me if I don’t respond faster but my life and line of work does not allow me faster access. I do read the responses though, so please keep ‘em coming.

[Tech_E]

You've made your point. Her reaction is almost predictable.

 

Your plan is solid. I agree, it's not like you can tie her to the kitchen table, if she is hell bent and determined to go there is little you can do about it.

 

Posters need to realize that the system in Canada is quite different than the American system. Very different, so for those that chime in with 'throw her out' or 'change the locks' or 'file under abandonment', don't. It just doesn't work that way.

 

Above all else she needs to know with absolute CLARITY that if she goes on the trip the marriage is over. There is no turning back, it is 100% over. There is a long time poster Owl that was a in a similiar situation, whereby his wife was carrying on a EA and she was about to go to turn it into a PA. He was able to bring his wife back from the edge and reconcile. I wish he was around to comment, perhaps he will be.

 

Keep your wits about you (which it seems you are doing an incredible job of) and know your plan and stick to it!

 

Keep us posted. Expect her fake 'nice' face to continue, especially if she thinks she has your fooled.

[StoneCold]

Posters need to realize that the system in Canada is quite different than the American system. Very different, so for those that chime in with 'throw her out' or 'change the locks' or 'file under abandonment', don't. It just doesn't work that way.

.

 

 

Actually Tech....

 

Family law between Canada and the US is quite similar. They are not carbon copies of eachother..there are some slight differences but still very similar.

 

The people that are saying "toss her out..", "change the locks..." dont know what they are talking about even in their own back yard.

[StoneCold]

Vanhandle I still think you are wasting your money with this PI...hes just going to tell you what you already know.

 

I think you have some solid enough evidence but even if you dont...all it means is that you cant divorce on the grounds of infidelity.

 

I'm Canadian too and like the US system all you have to do is legally separate for a year and you'll have your divorce no questions.

 

If you have decided to leave simply move out and move on...the year will fly by...you wont even notice it because you'll be moving on with your life while separated.

[Chi townD]

Don't you love how they say that you never cared about them and you've never been there for them and you never fought for them. Then, one half hour later they're telling you that you're a great husband and father and can't bare to think of as life without you!

 

Make sure you talk to a lawyer and see where you stand. I agree with another poster. See the lawyer, get his or her business card. Then, just visit a real estate agent. You don't have to do anything, but just get a business card. pull out bank statements, credit cards statements, retirements plans and just get all of that together. Then, just place them on your lightstand. not in plain view, but enough to spark her curiosity. Let her know that you are not playing,

 

If she goes on this trip, right before she walks out the door, I would just say, " You walk out that door, you walk out on everything. Don't bother coming back."

 

If she does leave, start your plans, do not answer any of her phone calls but allow your children to talk to her (very important you do this) don't answer texts, don't answer her phone calls. If the children are talking to her and the say, "she wants to talk to you." take the phone and hang it up. Don't respond to her voicemails. Complete NC. wait for your PI to get you the data.

 

When she arrives home. Don't pick her up from the airport. Hell, take the kids and go on a mini vacation of your own. Just leave a note in the kitchen stating that you're gonna be gone for a few days so she doesn't try to get you on some BS kidnapping charges. Point is, don't make life easy on her at all.

[StoneCold]

Steadfast (and others) - I have a question for you. You say let her go. Even if comes back remorseful and wants to fix this relationship, how can you forgive her? Can you really? After all that’s happened? The plotting, scheming and denial in the face of proof?

 

.

 

 

Dont ask us... ask yourself

[The Blue Knight]

Van, it was interesting for me to read Steadfast's advice to you. I agree having been there myself. He's dead on!

 

I feel for you brother . . . I really do. I apologize for some of the hardened and uncaring advise you're getting on this thread. I came here for advise myself the other day and sometimes you get people who try to come off as black and white with all the answers, but in reality we all know that's not how life works.

 

Let me share my experience and hopefully you'll realize there is life after the woman you love. Take from this what you will. Share it with her if you want too.

 

My ex-wife's bizarre issues began in our seventh year of marriage in 1988. Yes, statistically the seven-year itch is quite accurate. One day she mentions having a crush on a co-worker friend. She's known this guy for like seven years. While it was a bit strange that she even mentioned it, I'm not the jealous type and I didn't think she'd tell me such a thing if it was in any way serious so I didn't get too worked up.

 

Later that same month she decides to see a psychologist about some of "her problems" and she mentions the crush. The therapist suggests she make this known to her co-worker friend. I get wind of this and I'm like where did that therapist get her license from? . . . that can only go bad and open up a can of worms or worse. While I wasn't jealous I was concerned that my ex would make a fool of herself.

 

Well, what's she do, she tells him. He looks at her like she's nuts. This guy was happily married with three kids. She later admits to me "I should have listened to you, I made a complete fool of myself!"

 

So we get by that "moment" without any fallout but I should have keyed in on the behavior as being related to some bigger issue. Of course I didn't. Our sex life was hot. We had three kids. We had good dual incomes and a nice house. We were living the life. I had no reason to think she wasn't content.

 

Then in the summer of 1989 she goes on a trip to Memphis which is required training for her job. She did this once or twice a year through her employer and it was never an issue. I watched the kids and handled logistics at home.

 

I put her on the flight that June and everything seemed fine. We talked nightly on the phone about how our days went, what's going on with the kids, etc. And then about the fourth night she begins acting different on the phone. Telling me how depressed and unhappy she was. Not with me but just life in general. The sudden shift in behavior was strange but I'm still pretty young at 30 and for her moods to alter wasn't entirely unusual, so although I was bewildered I wrote it off as another aspect of her high maintenance personality.

 

That next Friday evening I dressed nicely and made arrangements for grandparents to watch the kids at their house, and I was really anxious to see my wife and get the evening alone with her to catch up on the week we lost. I mean for us to go a week without love-making was not the norm and anytime one of us was away for a few days, we were like a couple of depraved rabbits when we came back together. We typically could barely get in the door without tearing each others close off.

 

But when I picked her up at the airport that evening she had a look as she walked down the terminal towards me that I can't describe. My best attempt would be (and I remember this vividly) to say that I put my wife on a flight a week earlier and the woman who was walking toward me in the terminal seemed like an alien look-alike imposter. It was literally like an alien-abduction! She looked at me somewhat sheepish and said very little. Her hug wasn't the typical full body embrace. The true her would have whispered in my ear what she was going to do to me when she got me home. But in this case nothing.

 

I knew something wasn't right and the drive home was fairly quiet as she sat and looked out the window.

 

And although I didn't suspect a guy right away, it took me about three hours after we got home to break her. I told her that I wasn't stupid and I sure as heck knew that she wasn't the same person I put on the airplane a week earlier. She finally broke down and confessed that she'd become involved with a man in her training class. She said it never reached intercourse, but had been intimate.

 

I'm sure you gentlemen (Van and Steadfast) experienced the same feeling I did. That sick feeling in your gut . . . that surreal emotion of "I never thought this could happen to my marriage or to me!"

 

Incidentally I knew from past training she'd been sent too around the country that guys in her training sessions hit on her once in awhile. She was a hot looking petite brunette with attitude . . . what wasn't there to like??? I just accepted that but never worried about it. She'd tell me about these guys but would laugh at their ill-fated attempts. And of course what did I have to fear, she was always forthright about the information and we were always fairly nutty about one another. Besides, I'd think to myself, eat your hearts out boys, that's MY WIFE!

 

She never struck me as the cheating type. In fact she'd gripe non-stop if she was aware of someone she knew or a friend who was cheating in a relationship. And here's a weird one . . . she became mad watching a movie one time (Someone to Watch Over Me) because the married cop assigned a

body-guard detail became involved with his subject. I mean she protested like it really happened! I kept saying settle down, it's a movie. Lesson to learn there folks. Be watchful of those who protest too much about a certain issue. It may be some latent insight into flaws about themselves that they are consciously or unconsciously aware of on the surface.

 

Anyway, this guy must have had some good lines and was good looking as well based on her description later. He lived in Cincinnati and we were in the Twin Cities. I told her whatever she intended to do to make up her mind because I certainly wasn't going to sit around and be the "other man" while she carried on a long-distance love affair. It took about two weeks before she began to realize this wasn't going to happen and reality came crashing back. This guy was divorced with two kids living in Ohio and she had three kids and was still supposedly "happily" married. Essentially I'm sure he thought that finding someone whose brains he could F**k out on the side during his training class with absolutely no strings attached was well worth the effort for that one week. But this guy wasn't going to carry on a long distance love affair when what he really wanted was a piece of a** for that one week.

 

As her mind began to come back to reality I told her she needed to get on the phone and call him if she was deciding to stay and make our marriage work. I certainly didn't want the marriage to end since I had a 2, 4, and 6 year old at the time. Plus I still loved her very much.

 

She said she understood where I was coming from but couldn't make the call. She didn't know how. So I said give me his number. I called him up and said, here's the deal, do you plan on leaving Ohio to be with my wife? He replied, no. I said well she has no plans on leaving Minnesota or her kids. I told him to be a man, tell her it isn't going to happen and then bow out so she and I could get our lives straightened out. He agreed and I gave them about one minute on the phone to say their goodbyes. I never had to track him down and kick his a** because he was a man of his word . . . or perhaps a better way of describing it would be to say that in his mind, she wasn't going to be worth the effort.

 

Thus began the slippery slope with chapters to follow. We made things work. She of course needed a whole new life and we had to start over if "we were going to make it work" and I was game. I wanted to work through the problem and get our lives back on track. I was in college and working FT. I decided to quit college (for her which isn't a good reason by the way). We had to buy a new house. Hoop after hoop I jumped through to keep it together.

 

The odd thing was our sex life was still very good and very active. In fact she became even more bold sexually. She began performing "extra" things in bed that she hadn't done before, and she began talking a little bit dirty which I'm not going to lie, kind of turned me on. It was like she was liberating some hidden passion inside her and was asking me to fulfill it. What am I going to say . . . no? Any good husband is going to seek to fulfill his wife's needs. Besides, it was very hot so I was there!

 

But the fall of '92 my senses picked up on something again. She was going out on a Friday night with a "girlfriend." No big deal. I had to work until 11:00 PM (such is a cops life) and after I got off, I came home and she still wasn't home. She came in the door shortly after I did. I asked her if she had a good time and where she went, etc. Just being polite really. But what caught my attention (I noticed every little subtlety about my wife then and my current wife now) was how she was dressed. She had on a shirt with a low neckline and a couple of buttons not fastened, and it just struck me as I stood their talking to her in the kitchen that this wouldn't be something I'd expect her to wear out with a girlfriend.

 

Within a couple of days I began adding things up that didn't add up and there I was confronting her again and this time it came out that a divorced man whom she had only met was watching his son play football on the same team as my then 10 year old son. He had thought she was a divorced single Mom since most of the games were played at times I was working. He stupidly assumed we were divorced and decided to call her. Of course any flattery went straight to her head and although she rebuffed him initially telling him that she was married . . . she eventually relented and went out with him.

 

This mess went on for about six weeks. It was strange. She'd tell me that he didn't have the masculine qualities that I did, but that she was for some inexplicable reason attracted to him. I finally laid it on the line and said I wasn't up for this nonsense . . . make a decision. Up to that point she hadn't slept with him so I was still okay with working it out but I wanted a decision to be made. She finally said I don't want to lose you (meaning me) and our family so she told me she broke it off.

 

Now since I was working strange hours late into the evening and overnight I knew I couldn't just take her word for it. By this point I could no longer take her word at face value. This was pre-home computer era so I went to Radio Shack and bought a device that I could tap into my phone line and

which taped conversations on cassette whenever the phone was picked up.

 

I hooked into the line coming into the garage knowing she'd never know and left it there and nearly forgot about it until one night about four nights after setting it up I was coming home late and thought I'd listen to whatever was on the tape. Needless to say she was still communicating with him and I didn't like the content at all. Again, it hadn't become sexual but I didn't care. She'd flat out lied and said she broke it off.

 

I woke her from her slumber and threw the suitcase on the bed and said pack your stuff and get out. She was of course half out of it and couldn't figure out how I knew. I told her I'd tapped the phone line. Now reading your story Van I was struck by how your wife did the exact same thing my wife did.

 

She turned the tables and said "How dare you tape my conversations!" I wasn't buying the reverse guilt-job however and I told her to get out and to save her breath. It's amazing to me that someone can cheat on their spouse and then come off as incensed that you broke some moral code by taping or extracting their conversations. Give me a break!

 

Well she got out and went straight over to this guys place. Now here's the setting. He's a lazy-ass out of work carpenter living in his parents upper level townhouse who still drinks too much and was still smoking dope occasionally at the age of 44 (at that time) while my wife, then was 34. Trust me, it made no sense. On top of that he was physically poorly built with a major receding hairline and stringy un-kept hair. She didn't like men who were bonafide losers and this guy fit the profile to a tee. I mean I

can maybe understand a good looking CEO with a sports car, a vacation home in Maui and a six-digit income. This was far from that scenario.

 

But I pushed her straight into his arms that night and I didn't really care. In fact in some ways it maybe helped her to wake up. Because after she arrived he of course invites her up to his bedroom and attempts to seduce her. She's game but remember that this is in the age before erectile dysfunction could be treated with the little blue pill and ultimately he failed miserably. I only know all of this because she came back home a couple of days later asking if we could try to make it work. In that conversation she began complaining about "his problem" and complimenting me that I don't have "that problem."

 

So suddenly he's not all that she thought he was. I knew he was afraid of me because he'd confided in her those sentiments and she in turn told me that, so I do take some degree of pleasure in thinking that while he was nailing my wife, he saw me pounding him off the pavement like a rag-doll and it may have played into his member not being up to the task.

 

Anyway, back to me and the ex. We made it through that one as well after once more, I called the guy up and said, I've spoken to my wife and it's over. By that point reality had hit her in the head and I think even she was trying to figure out what the heck she was thinking by getting involved with this lowlife.

 

Van, I tell you all of this because even if you do get through this, and you might . . . I believe that once they've cheated on you, it's easier the next time to cheat on you. At least that was my experience. And if you find a way to make it work, they begin to realize that you love them enough that you'll take their infidelity and put up with it.

 

Now I think some marriages are strengthened by infidelity and those marriages do sometimes manage to go on, but I also think that they are rare. As you described your wife I had flashbacks to my ex-wife. They sound in many ways similar. Needing more but not always able to articulate what it is that they need to make them happy. Searching but never really finding what they're searching for.

 

There's a void in some people that nobody can seem to fill adequately. This may be the case with your wife. Only you really know her and only you can make the decision.

 

Incidentally check out this site if you get a chance. One of my ex-wife's counselors gave her this poem 20-years ago and suggested that people like her are never content and this poem sheds light on that issue. http://robertjhastings.net/

 

So back to my narrative. Even though my ex and I got through 1992 it still fell apart in the end. And just to show you how entirely unpredictably irrational she could be, she and I went to Puerto Vallerta in the Spring of 1994. During that romantic week in Mexico she told me how great everything was between us. How she was so glad I had stayed and she'd stuck it out and we'd managed to work things out. The romance and the passion was fantastic. I'd finally thought we'd got through all the hills and valleys and turned the corner and could now just focus on our marriage and the kids. Guess what?

 

In October 1994, a mere seven months later, she hit me with divorce papers. She never gave me any actual reason except very generic stuff like "we're just too different" and stuff that really didn't make much sense. I know she wasn't seeing anyone at the time because I could always detect it in her.

 

By that time I was so worn out with all the investment I'd made to keep the marriage alive and the family together I finally just said, that's fine. I didn't fight it or attempt to talk her out of it. My kids were now 12. 10, and 8 and I figured it was easier at that point to just let go.

 

We divorced in February 1995. Just before it was official she told me that she thought down the road we'd end up back together. Of course I was looking at her like are you nuts!

 

A couple months after the divorce I met my current wife (right place and right time) and began dating her. As soon as the ex found out I became an instant commodity and she wanted me back. While I was flattered that she felt that way I wasn't going to walk back into the arms of a woman who had deceived me and lied to me off and on for the final five years of our life together. Moreover, I met a great gal and she was very low maintenance compared to my ex. If there's something I did learn from both marriages it's go low maintenance. Now my current wife and I have other issues which has to do with her libido but that's a whole different issue entirely.

 

My ex remarried and I think found the grass was certainly not greener. But I think she realizes she screwed up and that whatever voids she had in her life are probably still there and always will be. In essence, your wife might need to find out for herself. As I said, I think Steadfast offered good advice.

 

Try to remove her from your mind and move on if you can You're in a lose-lose situation. If she goes on this trip, she's blown off your request and dismissed you outright. What kind of love is that? She gets to live her life on her terms which isn't how marriages are supposed to be conducted. Contrastingly, if she relinquishes and gives into you demanding she not go to Cuba, she'll resent you from holding her back from what could be her one true love (in her mind).

 

Take from this whatever you can. I wish you the best my friend. Hit me up if you need any insights I can provide. Working as a police officer for 20 years I've seen good marriages go south, bad marriages improve, and a good share of the bizarre as well. Only you can make the decision because you know yourself and your wife better than the rest of us posting advice.

[StoneCold]

do not answer any of her phone calls but allow your children to talk to her (very important you do this) don't answer texts, don't answer her phone calls. If the children are talking to her and the say, "she wants to talk to you." take the phone and hang it up. Don't respond to her voicemails. Complete NC. wait for your PI to get you the data.

.

 

You cant carry on like that if you have kids together..

 

Also

 

"do not answer any of her phone calls but allow your children to talk to her "

 

How can you do this if you dont answer her calls?

 

Vanhandle....be civil and reasonable if not for you then for your kids

[Chi townD]

You cant carry on like that if you have kids together..

 

Also

 

"do not answer any of her phone calls but allow your children to talk to her "

 

How can you do this if you dont answer her calls?

 

Vanhandle....be civil and reasonable if not for you then for your kids

 

 

You don't have phones that display the number of incoming calls where you live? If he recongnizes the number just hand it of to the kids and say, " It's your mom." simple. If the kids aren't around, let it go to voicemail.

 

and your right, if she walks out that door...be reasonable, let your lawyer do the talking.

[StoneCold]

You don't have phones that display the number of incoming calls where you live?

 

 

Guess you've never heard of private, unknown or restricted numbers...nor have you heard of *69 ...I can see her blocking her number

[reboot]

Calls without caller id don't even ring on my phones.

[Chi townD]

Guess you've never heard of private, unknown or restricted numbers...nor have you heard of *69 ...I can see her blocking her number

 

 

Why would you see her doing that? Restricting after a time when she realizes that he's not talking to her? Well, if that's the case. If he answers and hears her voice. Just stop the train and say, " hold on, let me get the kids."

 

I mean, really. If she walked out the door and went to spend a vacation with her Cuban lover away from her family, which he has proof to that. Is there anything that these two REALLY need to be talking about? He's given her every chance RIGHT NOW to do the right thing and she chose her lust over her family. She can't have both. So, in my opinion, the civil thing to do is have the lawyer speak on his behalf. Right now, he's giving her every opportunity to do what's right for her marriage and her family. I'm sure that if she came to him right now and said, "I've canceled the trip, I think we need marriage counseling." I feel he would be completely on board with her.

 

If she walks out the door, she ends the marriage. And that's not coming from me, that's the OP opinion. Therefore, she needs to know that she's lost him. He's not available to her. He's not her backup plan. It's over and it's her doing because of the choices she's made. He's making his children 100% available to her, she can talk to them anytime she likes. But, he's gone and she needs to realize that. And this shouldn't come as a shock to her, he's been informing her all along. There are consequences to one's actions.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Chi townD

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Talk about a fog. What strikes me is how complicit her friends are and how completely non-sensical her arguments are.

 

But you too need to be honest and reassess the marriage and what has happened and what you honestly have done in the past to lead to this point. We are not all without faults, but women to be sexist love to dream that often lead to these illicit affairs.

 

My wife also travels often with a friend and I am happy that she has a break and hope she is relaxed and refreshed upon her return. She also has her interests and hobbies on the side. You seemed to be in a power struggle from the beginning about these and thus some resentment.

 

What will happen will happen. You have told her so and frankly if she goes, yep I agree with the PI so you know for a fact.

 

If she doesn't go, she will blame you, fester, continue on her fantasy affair as she wants to see it through. Maybe she'll have a change of heart, but certainly not if home with you.

 

I can see how she is seething now and blames you for everything and will resent you for everything happening in her life including her feelings for this other guy.

 

Don't look hurt or bring it up again. August 2nd is 4 days away. Unless she tells her 100% she is not going and that she comes clean with everything, she'll only do it to be proving a point and be more miserable and distraught then ever.

 

The email she sent you was as cold and distant as anyone in crisis could send. I think the most telling line was where she said "I don't go and we are getting a divorce". That more then anything shows how completely removed from reality she is.

 

The hard decisions will follow and I wish you luck.

[itmustbeme]

I can relate well to your situation. Like your wife, my ex was strong willed, stubborn and bolstered by her physical beauty. When her heart was directed towards me she was passionately faithful, but when she changed course (impossible in real love) she became passionately unfaithful. In due time you will realize what I eventually came to understand; there is no control. You can't make someone love you.

 

FWIW, and especially so soon after the discovery, I am astounded by your vision and clarity in handling this. It took me considerably longer, but I was thrown just enough bread crumbs to keep me off balance. All of it; the revised history, the blame shifting and her fury over me invading her privacy all ring familiar and come straight from the cheaters handbook. You are right; at this point it makes NO DIFFERENCE if she's slept with him or not. The real damage -what's inside of her head and heart- are the factors destroying your marriage. The rest is revoltingly predictable.

 

When what is happening in your marriage surfaces we tend to place too much motivation/blame upon the affair partner. The truth is, your wife was looking to step out before she ever met Ricky Ricardo. Even the happiest of spouses can develop crushes; but those with real love, respect and vision know and recognize the dangers of their desire and avoid the temptation. This is a good wife, true to her word in both deed and action. Unfortunately, it appears your wife is not made up of this.

 

In my opinion, your wife is lost. That isn't to say she couldn't snap out of it, but if history is any indication, she won't. At least, not anytime soon. Sometime post divorce it'll probably hit her like a ton but by then you'll be long gone. Deep down inside she knows this and it frightens her.

 

My advice? Stay the course. Let her go. Do not discuss the marriage or your relationship with her any longer. Give her what she wants; complete control and the ultimate decision regarding her future. Adopt the attitude that your marriage is over and begin the process of separation and divorce. It is critical to remain kind and exercise self-control for both you and your children. If she comes to you in genuine remorse and wants to repair the relationship, you'll have new decisions to make. Right now, she's gone.

 

This is a good place to visit for support, venting and encouragement.

 

Well good on confronting her. Her reaction is very typical of a cheating spouse. You are taking a drug addicts drug away and this is how she reacts.

 

What she wants is to be able to take trips without her husband and have sex with men on the side. First of all married couples should not be going off alone on these type of vacations if they want to remain happily married.

 

I think your wife may have been cheating for years. And in her mind she wants to go get some strange on the side and she is banking on the fact that she will talk you out of divorce.

 

You see the getting it on the side is more important than your marriage. If she loved you and cared she would cancel the trip or you would be with her on it. But you are not important to her. Of course if you divorce she may not have as much money to spend on these trips or have a built in baby sitter when she leaves.

 

She believes she can go do it with him come back and talk you out of it. She has probably done it before so she probably feels she knows what she can and cannot get away with.

 

I got to say though you did confront her and put down some rules for her to continue to be your wife. I think you have a good chance if you keep standing firm and kicking her to the curb if she wants to cheat. Best of luck to you.

[Owl]

Van...years ago my wife got involved in an EA with another man she met online.

 

On d-day, when confronted, she was all set to get on a plane and cross the country to go live with him, even though they'd never met in person.

 

I drew a line. If she got on that plane, there was no coming back, no chance of us having ANY kind of relationship whatsoever once she crossed that line.

 

I meant it.

 

She tried getting angry, etc.... She fought and raged against me for it.

 

I didn't back down.

 

Had she gone on that trip...I would have followed through with what I'd promised.

 

I honestly think that if your boundary is the same...you spell it out that simply and clearly to your wife. Tell her that you can't stop her from going...that choice is entirely hers to make. But if she goes...she's got no one and nothing to come back to. You'll pack her stuff up while she's gone and move it into storage for her. You'll contact an attorney and begin proceedings.

 

She can go...or she can stay and try to fix the damage she's done to your family and marriage.

 

Make sure she understands her options and the consequences for each choice. And then let her choose, with that knowledge spelled out clearly for her.

[Chi townD]

Also, by telling her it's over if she walks out that door at the very least, you may have ruined her fantasy vacation. She may be gone, but that little voice in the back of her head will keep asking her, " Just what is he doing back home? Is he selling the house? Is he divorcing me? What is he telling people? What exactly does he know?"

 

or

 

She really doesn't give a rats ass and has convinced herself that she can fix everything when she gets back home. But, I have a strong feeling that you are going to receive more phonecalls this trip than any other. Therefore, she's looking for you to agree that everything is okay and you'll work on things when she gets home. Hence, she can relax and enjoy sleeping with her Cuban lover under the Carribean sun.