Bf's trip and lack of contact are starting to get to me

[Star Gazer]

So it's okay to accuse her of something you can't prove is true?

 

I'm not accusing her of anything. You're the one who said she's posting a ton of threads about this guy, and suggesting that's telling. My response, like zengirl's, is that that makes sense, because this is the longest relationship she's ever had on LS - by a LONG shot, so it makes sense that she'd post more about him than anyone else.

 

That said, I absolutely CAN prove it's true, I'm just not going to BOTHER to go count up her darn threads for you. The information is equally available to you.

[Star Gazer]

I honestly don't know one person who's a completely secure, happy, emotionally healthy person when dating or not.

 

So, you're saying she's not. Gotcha.

 

That's assumptive and unnecessary. She hasn't dated every guy on the planet.

 

Fine. Every single guy ES has ever dated or will date is a trigger. That's better.

[threebyfate]

I mean this sincerely.

 

It's such a shame, TBF... because you could do ES a WORLD of good if you'd just check your motive at the door, and be honest and tell her what she really needs to hear.

 

She needs your "straight up" advice. She needs to know what SHE can/should do to improve HERSELF, not everything her BF may or may not be doing wrong. But you refuse to do that. You focus only on him. How does focusing on him, help her? It doesn't. You continuing to bash her BF, and not giving HER guidance about how SHE can improve, does NOT help her and is the very essence of coddling.

 

You talk about everyone vilifying/bashing ES, and not wanting to be someone who criticizes ES (I suppose you don't want to be another trigger?). I can understand that motivation. I'd say our lovely Kamille feels the same way. However, her advice is grossly different from yours because she skillfully and astutely points out where ES has gone astray, and how she can do better.

 

You (and anyone else here, like Kamille) can help her without bashing her. You can help her understand how she can think/do better, without bashing her. You can show her the error of her ways, and how they've negatively affected her relationship, without bashing her.

 

But you won't do that. You want to make it all about him. "Her trigger."

 

I've honestly never been more surprised and disappointed in your "advice" than I have been in the last few of ES's threads, and I worry about the gals in ES's position who are reading her threads, thinking they'll come across a gem they can apply to their own lives, who are reading nothing more from you than, "He's her trigger, dump him," without any recognition of the role she's played in all of this, or how she can do better.

 

Because she can do better. But not if your focus remains on him.

SG, tough love doesn't help her. Thread after thread of copious amounts of harassment and tough love and none of it has sunk in. Why? The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting the same results.

[threebyfate]

I'm not accusing her of anything. You're the one who said she's posting a ton of threads about this guy, and suggesting that's telling. My response, like zengirl's, is that that makes sense, because this is the longest relationship she's ever had on LS - by a LONG shot, so it makes sense that she'd post more about him than anyone else.

 

That said, I absolutely CAN prove it's true, I'm just not going to BOTHER to go count up her darn threads for you. The information is equally available to you.

I'm looking for proof of validity of accusation. Hearsay from people who haven't done the research isn't proof.

 

So, you're saying she's not. Gotcha.

She's already admitted to having issues. I haven't denied that she has issues, expressing this time and again.

Fine. Every single guy ES has ever dated or will date is a trigger. That's better.

Once again assumptive and unnecessary. No one can forecast the future.

[threebyfate]

What would help ES?

 

(Serious question.)

ES, you're the best person to answer this question.

 

My opinion is that if advice is delivered in a respectful, tailored and considerate manner, that this will help ES far more than being hammered for everything she does.

[Star Gazer]

SG, tough love doesn't help her.

 

WHERE did I suggest tough love?

 

Kamille doesn't use tough love, and she listens to her. THAT is the brand of help, of love, that I'm suggesting you employ. But you won't. You refuse.

[Star Gazer]

ES, you're the best person to answer this question.

 

My opinion is that if advice is delivered in a respectful, tailored and considerate manner, that this will help ES far more than being hammered for everything she does.

 

You have not provided ES any advice. You have hammered on her BF. That's it.

[Star Gazer]

I'm looking for proof of validity of accusation. Hearsay from people who haven't done the research isn't proof.

 

Huh?? Again, there's no accusation coming from me or zengirl about her thread posting. YOU, TBF, are the one ACCUSING by saying the fact that she's writing so many threads about him is a sign of something. But it's not a sign of anything other than she's had more time with this guy, and thus more time to start threads about him.

[threebyfate]

WHERE did I suggest tough love?

 

Kamille doesn't use tough love, and she listens to her. THAT is the brand of help, of love, that I'm suggesting you employ. But you won't. You refuse.

I'm not Kamille. But I do encourage you to post like Kamille does if you feel it works.

[Star Gazer]

I'm not Kamille. But I do encourage you to post like Kamille does if you feel it works.

 

Do you have any advice for ES? Or is your presence in her threads solely to bash her BF and tell other people how to post and give advice?

[threebyfate]

You have not provided ES any advice. You have hammered on her BF. That's it.

At this point, I feel she should ditch him. I've also quite openly admitted that she has issues, ones she has openly acknowledged. Anything beyond that, isn't pertinent, in my opinion. She's an adult who can handle her own issues where the first step is admittance.

 

Now if she were to post a thread about helping her get over her issues, that would be another thing all together. As it stands, the issues she discusses on LS, are relationship oriented.

 

Huh?? Again, there's no accusation coming from me or zengirl about her thread posting. YOU, TBF, are the one ACCUSING by saying the fact that she's writing so many threads about him is a sign of something. But it's not a sign of anything other than she's had more time with this guy, and thus more time to start threads about him.

No, I haven't accused anyone of anything. I've said that it's telling that she's posted so much about this guy. The rest is well documented in this thread.

 

Shall we move on from this point or will this turn into bickering? Hopefully not.

[threebyfate]

Do you have any advice for ES? Or is your presence in her threads solely to bash her BF and tell other people how to post and give advice?

I'm here to give ES my opinion about her realtionship which includes the skype issue. From what I understand, that appears to be the nature of the thread.

[A O]

I've also quite openly admitted that she has issues, ones she has openly acknowledged.

Acknowledging a problem is a big step but its hardly the only one.

 

Anything beyond that, isn't pertinent, in my opinion.

Her issues negatively impacts on every facet of her dating and relationship life. The "beyond" or in other words, the "consequences" of these issues are extremely pertinent, especially from a health professional's point of view. A professional can track back a consequence, look for the triggers or underlying trigger that led to this situation and then offer either surface level advice (ways to better manage a situation/consequence) or deeper level analysis/advice (try and identify the root cause that creates all these issues and then, if possible, try to manage it).

 

Many posters on this board are experienced enough, savvy enough to offer sound, pertinent "surface" level advice. One sees this over and over on ES threads. But no one here has the qualifications to offer deep level analysis or advice. And without doubt, it's deep level help that is what ES really needs. Five years, at least five years of behaving the same way, of seeing/creating/enduring drama (take your pick as to which one(s) apply), and the best that everyone here has managed to achieve is take this behavior out of the dating world and into the relationship world.

 

We have not managed, in five years, to deliver her the type of relationship that we would want, if not demand for ourselves, ditto our nearest and dearest. So why do we allow her to meander along this destructive path to nowhere. Why do we put up with this!

 

Now, if this, if ES was someone close to me, then I wouldn't cop this. No way in a million years would I want someone I care for enduring this type of behavior for such an incredibly long period of time. And I'm sure I'm not alone here. We do her a disservice by thinking that we have all the answers, by thinking that we know as much, perhaps more than the professionals.

 

Hence why I appeal to you and to the many other well-meaning, but ultimately misguided posters out there to encourage her, to guide her towards the professionals.

 

Of course its true, dead true that we can't make people do anything they do not want to do. But constantly being there for them, supporting them, even making excuses for their behavior, these short-term fixes will not alter her underlying behavior in any long-term, meaningful way.

 

ES has come a long way (according to some) but that's only half the journey. She (if not many people here for that matter) needs to know where she wants to be. Concentrate on the future and the path ahead starts to become a lot more clearer. But that future lies best in the hands of those who know the most - the professionals.

 

 

.

[Eternal Sunshine]

OK, so I have made the decision to end it.

 

It's not even the current lack of contact - he has personality traits that I don't want in a long term partner. Sure - so do I, but I am not deciding if I should dump myself. I will never be at inner peace if I don't end something that I intuitively know is not right for me.

 

Not sure how to go about it. We have been together for 5 months and he has 17 days left in Europe. He is a good person despite his flaws and I am sure he will make a great partner for someone that is highly secure but aggressive and doesn't mind living with inconsistency and a weak man.

 

Practical details are that he has left me all of his keys. To his car, his apartment (all copies) - so I will need to wait for him at the airport I am also half-way through cleaning up his apartment, doing his washing etc (he hasn't asked me to do this, it was my idea). I plan to finish it fully despite the break-up.

 

I have learned something from this. For the first time in years, I have gone past the dating stage, past the small talk, and truly opened up to someone on a deeper level. It is a big thing for me.

 

I don't want to punish him or make this any harder than it needs to be. Should I break with him the next time we Skype? I know it would be better to do it in person but it's hard for me to go through the motions of keeping in even limited contact with him. I have been unable to even respond to his yesterday's long e-mail. Today, my friend (who incidentally knows him quite well too) - so I haven't told her anything about our relationship - posted this song about a couple that are in LDR and missing each other like crazy - then she tagged me and the bf. I just inwardly cringed I can't keep this up for the next 2 weeks or so. I also want him to make the most out of his possible opportunities and hook ups in Europe.

 

Any ideas on how to go about this break-up are welcome. There is probably a simple solution but my mind just can't seem to grasp it at the moment.

[denise_xo]

I would keep communication going at a low key level and end it in person after he gets back.

[zengirl]

You can't quote pattern, then deny blatant lying behaviour by him.

 

This sentence really does confuse me. First, I didn't deny that he lied in that instance. Second, I see no other instances and one occurrence of behavior does not a pattern make. . . so I'm confused what it has to do with patterns. Third, my main point is to not make this about her BF's behavior, as doing so allows her to ignore the bad behavior she has also shown in this relationship. Which is another one of ES's patterns. Patterns are extremely important to discerning the problems we have, IMO.

 

As far as skype is concerned, it's my understanding that he only skyped with her because he was at loose ends. If that's inaccurate, let me know. Otherwise I consider this not only poor expectation management but selfish behaviour. Or he's jacking with her mind by blowing hot and then cold.

 

I'm not sure why it's selfish. He's on vacation for a month. He Skypes her when it's convenient for him without interfering with his vacation. That seems like normal behavior to me. Now, if she would prefer he not Skype with her so much when he's bored, she should certainly say so ("I know it's rainy there, honey, but I just can't Skype this much! Send me an email about what's going on! Love you, wish you were here!" whatever.) That's her prerogative. However, I do not believe in the paradigm that suggests sacrifice = love.

 

This is not to say we will never make sacrifices for the people we love (we will) but I don't get offended if someone contacts me more when he is less busy/more bored because that's normal human nature to reach out to people more when you have more time to do so. I can certainly believe the "he Skyped with me more when it was rainy and he had nothing to do" idea. . . but why is that a problem? It's the phrasing that makes it a problem. Here's how I'd see that, "He Skyped with me more when he had more downtime and an internet connection at his house to do so" --- right. That makes perfect logistical sense.

 

Again, none of this goes back to whether or not he is the guy for ES overall.

 

Can't hold ES responsible for her behaviours without holding him responsible for his behaviours. She didn't provoke him to lie. That responsibility resides solely on his shoulders.

 

I actually said that I was not saying she provoked his behavior. I was explaining how the dynamic works together.

 

He admits himself that he is hot and cold and that his emotions change constantly. This is simply a bad match for an anxious person.

 

As for high level of contact, no I wouldn't need it as long as it was CONSISTENT. It's hard to see someone bombarding you with over the top loving declarations every hour one week, to having barely any contact next week (and the little contact is formal and cold). You can't help but wonder "What the hell happened?". He does this ALL the time.

 

You do need a lot of contact at the beginning of relationships --- at least that's what you've always said. You've said many times that guys who stopped contact for a day or two and then resumed were never really interested in you. If this mindset has changed, I applaud it, and I hope you will apply it.

 

Contact will never be consistent with human beings (it can be varying levels of consistency, and perhaps you and your BF have incompatible communication styles---I'm not saying you do) but really, unless a guy is just catering to your insecurities, he's not going to call you at completely regular intervals. That's not how people work.

 

Whether or not this guy is good for your anxieties is missing the point----you hold onto your anxieties as though they are outside of your control. They aren't. You can choose to release them. Which has nothing to do with releasing or keeping this guy. With or without this guy, I don't believe your love life will get better until you work on those anxieties. In this issue (the Skype) issue, I don't see the problem with your BF at all.

 

The rest is. . . what it is. If it was a dealbreaker, it should've been a dealbreaker when you found out about it. I really can't justify why his Skype habits are wrong based on some other stuff that maybe legitimately bothered you; and it's also hard to really examine his bad behavior that you know about when you have all this bad behavior you've never told him about/he doesn't know about. At least you had the chance to say, "This is not cool" and end it over these things earlier if you wish. Anything he doesn't know about (which there is plenty) is a different story. Which is not to say I think you should stay with him forever or anything. In fact, learning to break up with someone like an adult (actually talking to him about it) might help you. But that's because the situation is toxic, and that is certainly not all his doing. Remember that, lest history repeat itself.

 

I honestly don't know one person who's a completely secure, happy, emotionally healthy person when dating or not. Are you?

 

*raises hand*

 

I mean, I may miss some relationship stuff, but I don't think it hinders my general happiness, security, self-esteem, or emotional health. I'm certainly MORE happy when in a relationship, but I'm not unhappy without one, and my emotional health really isn't impacted by simply being single. Right after a breakup, it may take a brief hit (as with any significant bummer event), but it recovers. I don't see how simply being single = emotional turmoil.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Acknowledging a problem is a big step but its hardly the only one.

 

Her issues negatively impacts on every facet of her dating and relationship life. The "beyond" or in other words, the "consequences" of these issues are extremely pertinent, especially from a health professional's point of view. A professional can track back a consequence, look for the triggers or underlying trigger that led to this situation and then offer either surface level advice (ways to better manage a situation/consequence) or deeper level analysis/advice (try and identify the root cause that creates all these issues and then, if possible, try to manage it).

 

Many posters on this board are experienced enough, savvy enough to offer sound, pertinent "surface" level advice. One sees this over and over on ES threads. But no one here has the qualifications to offer deep level analysis or advice. And without doubt, it's deep level help that is what ES really needs. Five years, at least five years of behaving the same way, of seeing/creating/enduring drama (take your pick as to which one(s) apply), and the best that everyone here has managed to achieve is take this behavior out of the dating world and into the relationship world.

 

We have not managed, in five years, to deliver her the type of relationship that we would want, if not demand for ourselves, ditto our nearest and dearest. So why do we allow her to meander along this destructive path to nowhere. Why do we put up with this!

 

Now, if this, if ES was someone close to me, then I wouldn't cop this. No way in a million years would I want someone I care for enduring this type of behavior for such an incredibly long period of time. And I'm sure I'm not alone here. We do her a disservice by thinking that we have all the answers, by thinking that we know as much, perhaps more than the professionals.

 

Hence why I appeal to you and to the many other well-meaning, but ultimately misguided posters out there to encourage her, to guide her towards the professionals.

 

Of course its true, dead true that we can't make people do anything they do not want to do. But constantly being there for them, supporting them, even making excuses for their behavior, these short-term fixes will not alter her underlying behavior in any long-term, meaningful way.

 

ES has come a long way (according to some) but that's only half the journey. She (if not many people here for that matter) needs to know where she wants to be. Concentrate on the future and the path ahead starts to become a lot more clearer. But that future lies best in the hands of those who know the most - the professionals.

 

 

.

 

What the hell? Support? Are you blind? I have been consistently bashed over the head by 90% of the LS members. I have been called insane, a psychopath, a whore and pretty much any name in the book. It's the other 10% that make it all worth it (sometimes).

 

I do agree with you that I need professional help. Howewer, what you fail to realize is that it's only about 50% of the battle (if that). The rest is finding the right guy. Even if I were emotionally healthy, my current bf is not right for me. Nor were any of the men that I met in the last 2 years (prior to that I haven't dated in about 3 years because I was in love with someone I couldn't have).

 

I have no regrets about letting go any of these men. None. Finding the right one for a LTR is incredibly hard for me (or pretty much anyone but I am probably pickier than most).

[zengirl]

What the hell? Support? Are you blind? I have been consistently bashed over the head by 90% of the LS members. I have been called insane, a psychopath, a whore and pretty much any name in the book. It's the other 10% that make it all worth it (sometimes).

 

I do agree with you that I need professional help. Howewer, what you fail to realize is that it's only about 50% of the battle (if that). The rest is finding the right guy. Even if I were emotionally healthy, my current bf is not right for me. Nor were any of the men that I met in the last 2 years (prior to that I haven't dated in about 3 years because I was in love with someone I couldn't have).

 

I have no regrets about letting go any of these men. None. Finding the right one for a LTR is incredibly hard for me (or pretty much anyone but I am probably pickier than most).

 

You won't find the right guy till you get help though. It has nothing to do with how picky you are. And really worrying about finding the right guy misses the point. Focusing on that is basically waiting for someone to wave a magic wand at you.

 

If the right guy fell into your lap tomorrow, it probably wouldn't work out, because you wouldn't be ready for him.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I would keep communication going at a low key level and end it in person after he gets back.

 

OK, this is probably best. I won't initiate any communication but will respond briefly if he does. It will probably be enough to clue him in but not to totally disrupt his holiday.

[zengirl]

He is a good person despite his flaws and I am sure he will make a great partner for someone that is highly secure but aggressive and doesn't mind living with inconsistency and a weak man.

 

This is a very PA way to describe it, ES. You can move on and say someone doesn't have the traits for you without denigrating that person. And even starting it off as "good person" "great partner" becomes denigrating with where you end up there in the sentence.

 

Practical details are that he has left me all of his keys. To his car, his apartment (all copies) - so I will need to wait for him at the airport I am also half-way through cleaning up his apartment, doing his washing etc (he hasn't asked me to do this, it was my idea). I plan to finish it fully despite the break-up.

 

Good for you in deciding to see through your responsibilities.

 

And for deciding not to tell him in Europe. That would be quite rude. He deserves a normal sit down.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Zengirl,

 

Are you saying that I should wait for him to come back to end it? Even if it's a bit deceitful to lead him on for the next 17 days?

 

P.S. Yes, I am pleased that I don't feel the need to leave his apartment half-cleaned

[zengirl]

Zengirl,

 

Are you saying that I should wait for him to come back to end it? Even if it's a bit deceitful to lead him on for the next 17 days?

 

P.S. Yes, I am pleased that I don't feel the need to leave his apartment half-cleaned

 

Yes. It's polite to end it in person. You don't have to send him anything gushy or do anything to actually encourage him in the relationship. I would just leave some distance, and if asked say, there was some stuff going on with me, I'll fill you in when you get back, or something.

 

It is deceitful in some ways (and you know I'm not a fan), but it is better than breaking up with someone on holiday. If you'd been more honest with yourself (which you hopefully can be in future), you could've avoided the situation where you decided it while he was on holiday---I have a feeling his presence is a big part of this. When he was around, you were happy enough to have somebody that you didn't really fully consider the relationship. (Phrasing is bad. I need to go get more coffee. But hope you know what I mean.) Again, not an attack---just something to work on in future: self-honesty on how you feel about someone.

[utterer of lies]

OK, so I have made the decision to end it.

 

Oh, again?

 

 

ES ends it over Skype or in a text message.

 

Bf is shocked, flies back the next day.

 

 

They have lots of drama. 12 hours of psycho terror come to mind.

 

Then....they are back together, and he learned his lesson: Never deprive ES of the constant attention she needs.

 

Yay.

 

Though maybe she still cheats on him with the hot coffee guy.

[A O]

What the hell? Support? Are you blind? I have been consistently bashed over the head by 90% of the LS members. I have been called insane, a psychopath, a whore and pretty much any name in the book. It's the other 10% that make it all worth it (sometimes).

The bashing's are unfortunate. But the support you derive from this place clearly supersedes all the rubbish otherwise you wouldn't keep coming back here.

 

I do agree with you that I need professional help. Howewer, what you fail to realize is that it's only about 50% of the battle (if that).

You're not actually the major problem here, believe it or not. The biggest problem here are your supporters/enablers. It's all the people who think they know better than the professionals. It's all the people who think they have your best interests at heart but actually don't. And five years(+) of you still behaving the same way is testament to this.

 

The rest is finding the right guy. Even if I were emotionally healthy, my current bf is not right for me. Nor were any of the men that I met in the last 2 years (prior to that I haven't dated in about 3 years because I was in love with someone I couldn't have).

As has already been mentioned and one of the core tenets of healthy relationships - until we are right/comfortable with ourselves then we will never find the right person.

 

Your issues, your self-sabotaging ways will not stop until you address your issues. You know that all too well, you're a smart woman after all. But far too many people here are unaware of this or simply choose to ignore this. And that is your loss. Their inexperience or ignorance does you a disservice.

 

I have no regrets about letting go any of these men. None. Finding the right one for a LTR is incredibly hard for me (or pretty much anyone but I am probably pickier than most).

Forget about looking for Mr Right. Concentrate of what you actually want (which I assume is a healthy, respectful, drama-sparse relationship). Concentrate on that and the steps that are needed to achieve this.

 

 

.

Edited July 26, 2011 by A O

[nyc_guy2003]

 

I don't want to punish him or make this any harder than it needs to be. Should I break with him the next time we Skype?

 

Pros and cons to this. On the plus side, he'll probably be free to keep b@nging hot European chicks without feeling any guilt now. But that's also a minus because you will know that once you break up with him he will be having wild orgies while you are playing housemaid to his apartment.