Question regarding my fiancee & co-workers

[jmargel]

See I can't live a life like that. I am very dependant. I bought my house when I was 22 and been living alone for the past four years. I told her she can decorate it the way she wanted, because I wanted her to feel like this was her home. Wow, I found out easier said than done. I was so accustomed to the ways I wanted things and her tastes differ in mine. The place looks really nice but just somethings even with that bothered me. There was a lamp I had in my living room which my grandmother got for xmas a few years ago. She mentioned it would look better upstairs in her own little room (its a 3 bedroom, master bedroom plus our own personal rooms) and she wanted her more modern lamp in the living room. I told her I didn't want that. I thought everything was fine with it, until I came home one day after work and guess what was sitting there.

 

When I was with my ex it got so bad that I was almost afraid to make suggestions because I knew it would turn into an arguement, which would lead her to wanting out of the relationship. I was walking on eggshells and part of me now is starting to feel this way with my current one. I dont know, maybe i'm not the typical man. Maybe most men who are married have resigned to the fact that their desires are not going to be heard even if they speak. Or maybe I'm expecting too much. At this point I can probably honestly say I've never known a completely normal woman. I know they exist. By that my definition of normal is to let the guy have a say in things. Not where everytime he wants something his way it's always a struggle.

 

It's gotten bad. To the point where I asked her if I could request some songs at the reception. I didn't even think of any songs yet because she mentioned before she wanted to pick them all out. Four hours worth! When I asked her she just gave me this look. I can see now reading this how control is slowing being taken away from me. If she can't love me and respect my wants and feelings then she needs to find someone else who can be her pushover. That's why I think we need counciling for someone to finally make her see what she is doing.

[befuddled11]

JMargel,

This may sound strange, but thank your lucky stars that you're not yet married...and that you're getting plenty of warning as to the red flags here. She's not even lived with you for barely 2 weeks and already she's insisting on getting her "way" in terms of decorating (eg..the lamp).

 

Then there's the whole issue of planning the wedding. You're not getting any "say" in things at all. She's like a one-man band....and if you express your desires or feelings on something, and they conflict with hers, she resorts to polling all her friends so that she can come back to you and say "everyone else agrees with me." This is not the mindset or behavior of a GOOD future wife. This is the mindset and behavior of someone who has no concept of compromise or considering their partners desires/needs/wants/feelings. If you think it's bad now, it will only get worse once you're married.......because people like her often feel that once they've tied the knot, they have even MORE RIGHT to get their own way.

 

You seem to be, from your posts, a very accomodating, easygoing, fair, compromising guy. And I think she's grossly taking advantage of that.

 

The whole issue with the "wedding" is of great concern. It's all about her and what she wants. Don't buy into this BS about a wedding being "the bride's day" (I'm a female, by the way).....it's a day for the COUPLE...both people. The wedding day officially marks the beginning of a couple's life together. If you're going to end up marking the rest of your life together on a day where you had to sit back and keep your yap closed, and had no input on how you wanted things, you're in for one helluva lopsided marriage.

 

You should never have to resort back to how you felt in your past relationship, where you had to walk on eggshells out of constant fear that if you spoke up, an argument would ensue. If together, you and she don't have the ability to communicate openly and freely.....and love each other another to consider each other's feelings/wants/needs/desires/wishes, then you simply don't have the necessary foundation for a GOOD and LASTING life together.

 

Can you really respect a woman who constantly wants her own way and blows off what you want? Can you see yourself being happy like this, for 50 yrs to come?

 

Not sure if you both plan to have kids one day, but if you do, and she's "this way", can you imagine a life raising children together where doing so is "her way or no way"? And how will that impact your children?

 

Only last weekend she was taking off her engagement ring and telling you it was over......and yet she's continuing to obsess over the planning of your wedding? It's not the wedding that matters, it's the MARRIAGE.

 

And yes, counselling is a good idea....but you better get on that quickly.......because based on your posts, it's likely going to take many sessions to get at the heart of the issues.......and that's going to take time...and you want to really know where things stand before you walk down that aisle.

 

And even going for counselling isn't going to ensure that she REALIZES she's self-centered and controlling. Counselling will ONLY work if she truly comes to this realization and then wants to do something about it.

[fredrolin]

Originally posted by jmargel

I dont know, maybe i'm not the typical man. Maybe most men who are married have resigned to the fact that their desires are not going to be heard even if they speak. Or maybe I'm expecting too much. At this point I can probably honestly say I've never known a completely normal woman. I know they exist. By that my definition of normal is to let the guy have a say in things. Not where everytime he wants something his way it's always a struggle.

 

 

 

I have resigned, that's for sure. And it's even worse in my case because there are children involved; she has a son that lives with us from her first marriage and we have a daughter together.

 

It got to the point a few years back that every disagreement lead to her wanting a divorce. I weighed my options and I figured financially I would be a fool to leave at that time.

She brings in almost 2/3 of our combined income and it all goes in one account and she never complains about my spending.

 

I figure the passive route is the best....alot less stress. If thing must be your way, live alone.

[Leikela]

You are definitely entitled to have a say in how you want things in your own house. A relationship is all about compromise! Without it, you don't have a relationship. You just have someone dictating and expecting the person to listen. I am sorry so many of you guys run into females like this. We aren't all like that. Trust me...

 

JMargel, good for you for standing your ground and not accepting this type of behavior. That's takes a strong man. I think counseling would be right up your alley in order to resolve this. I hope she agrees to go with you because besides these issues, you seem to have a great connection. Best of luck to you!

[fredrolin]

counselling only works if a person believes there is a problem.

 

my parents made me go to counselling for years because they thought I had problems. I wasn't into it but every "doctor" was willing to keep making appointments as long as my parents insurance was paying the bill.

 

I can remember session after session in which I just sat there saying basically nothing, as the "doctor" was probably writing down on his clipboard a list of the things he going to buy with the money he bilked out of my parents.

 

If your fiance feels she is correct in her ways, conselling will be a waste of time and money.

[jmargel]

Then how do I help her fix this? Just this morning my dog had an accident on the floor. It was pretty bad, but I had to clean it up. She got upset with me saying I was making it more of a mess and it was going to stain the carpet. I told her to trust me on this, i've done this plently of times before. Then she goes 'Oh well it's your house anyways'. To me that's not true. I told her this is both our home. I'm trying to make her feel like this is truly her home now yet she throws that back in my face. I even had to ask her for a kiss before she left.

 

Even last night we were at her sis-in-laws and she was inviting us to NYC with her & her husband. I mentioned I'd love to go on a horse-drawn carriage ride in Central Park and my fiancee is like 'All you do is smell the horses'. Which isn't true. Her & me went last year on one and we both had a great time. After we left she then said 'Im not going there, I was there with friends a few years ago and had a great time. I want to remember it that way.' It's like she's trying to push me away with these comments.

 

I need to sit down and talk to her tonight, but I don't even know how to approach it without her getting defensive. She's off her meds and she says she feels fine but I can tell she gets aggrivated so much easier. I don't want to lose her, because I do love her with all of my heart.

[Fedup&givingup]

J,

 

You two are having some pre marital jitters. Also, didn't you say that you had just moved in together? That's a MAJOR adjustment.

 

I can sense a bit of resentment coming from your fiance, and I can very well see the amount of being rigid from the both of you.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but your post about the actual wedding, etc....well, I read that, but I hadn't responded yet...although I can see what you are saying, with it's your wedding day too, and you have a right to voice your opinion on it as well....BUT, it really is a known thing to let the bride do it her way. It's a token of your love for her. It has to do with what she's always dreamed about, as a little girl.

 

Try to sit back and think about what's really important here. Choose your battles/conflicts wisely. It just seems like each of you are getting under each other's skin a little. That's normal, and in time, you both will chill out quite a bit.

[Leikela]

I think it's just a little bit more then marital jitters. If you look deeper into the situation, JMargel's fiancee has a history of neglect and sexual abuse. That REALLY affects a person and really haunts them for the rest of their lives. I work on a daily basis with victims of all kinds of sexual abuse and it really screws a person up.

 

JMargel, has your fiancee ever had individual counseling? Her behavior is just the display of a ton of conflicting emotions going on inside of her. And what fredrolin said is true-- if she doesn't think there's a problem then counseling isn't going to help, but a counselor might be able to help her identify that a problem does exist. You might even be able to help her see that her behavior is changing. I think it's a combo of her unresolved issues and her going off of her meds cold turkey.

 

Definitely talk to her tonight. To keep her off the defensive, approach the situation in a calm mannered way. Don't accuse her of anything or point fingers at her. Just state the way you are feeling and see what she says. Her reaction will be indicitive of how much denial she might be in.

[fredrolin]

Originally posted by Leikela

I And what fredrolin said is true-- if she doesn't think there's a problem then counseling isn't going to help, but a counselor might be able to help her identify that a problem does exist.

 

 

And if the counselor can't identify a problem he will make endless appointments anyway until he finds something!!

 

 

What's all this talk on this forum about meds? I don't know anyone who was ever on meds for head problems.

 

So many doctors are willing to write perscriptions due to the fact that most of them have stock in the pill making industry.

[jmargel]

She is willing to goto a councilor. She told me she has issues to resolve. I'm going to talk to her this weekend about it. She was originally put in Lexapro because she had IBS (Irritable bowel syndrom). We've been to so many doctors and all they wanted to do was pawn her off on someone else. She just got tired of the side effects with it and when she ran out of medication she never got it refilled. I'm trying to take this all into consideration. Though I did talk to her last night about the songs at the wedding and asked her if I could make a list of songs that I would like and she was fine with that.

 

I guess she's still going out after work so I probably expect her to be loaded, especially since she's upset. I'm not going out but I'm not going to be her chauffer.

 

With the whole wedding song I just emailed her saying if she really wanted that song she could have it. It was silly to argue about these little things and I do have to choose my battles carefully. But I also told her I was going to make a CD of songs I liked, but that it doesnt mean she has to choose from them. All I really want is my thoughts/feelings taken into consideration. Maybe she is feeling the same way, I don't know. She was just really cold to me this morning.

[Leikela]

What's all this talk on this forum about meds? I don't know anyone who was ever on meds for head problems.

 

So many doctors are willing to write perscriptions due to the fact that most of them have stock in the pill making industry.

 

I can see you have a real negative outlook on counseling/drug therapy which is your perogative. I figure it has to do with your experience of the system. Yes, there are counselors out there that don't care about their patients and just prescribe drugs for the hell of it. You're going to find people abusing the system in any field you go into. Those are just the facts of life.

 

However, there are some counselors (and I know first hand because I work in the counseling area) that do give a sh*t about their patients. It's definitely not the money that attracts them to this profession because it pays peanuts. And as for the meds, there are actually some people that need it to be stable. The neurons in the brain sometimes don't fire at the right times or there is a chemical inbalance which causes a person to behave and act differently. These meds help to balance out the brain so that these people can function normally in society. Also, people who are clinically depressed have a low amount of endorphins in their brain and the drugs help to give them a boost and to feel better and get better control of their thoughts. The drugs don't work for everyone, but for some it really does.

[moimeme]

What's all this talk on this forum about meds? I don't know anyone who was ever on meds for head problems.

 

 

People tend not to trumpet their use of meds for 'head problems' Bulletin for ya, fred, science has moved ahead of the dark ages and has shown that many 'head problems' are just body problems in that the body's chemicals are screwed up. So you take some supplementary chemicals and the 'head problems' get better.

 

jmargel

 

I was going to deal with the bar issue, but this situation is much more troubling than just that.

Your fianceé is, IMHO, not even close to ready for marriage.

 

Marriage is a partnership. It is about teamwork, and both people need to honour each other in all they do. In fact, I even wonder whether there's real love there. Love uplifts you and, when you love, you want happiness for your beloved. Love is not about demands and getting one's own way at the expense of the other.

 

I'm afraid your lady is emotionally immature. It is entirely possible that the events of her life turned her inward so that she seeks to satisfy her needs and wants to make herself feel better or something, but this is not the sort of emotional state that one can take into a marriage and have that marriage be successful.

 

Counselling will help her, if, as others have suggested, she acknowledges that there are problems. However, jmargel, it is going to take some time and I don't know if a new marriage will withstand the pressure.

 

The wedding will not change her. She will not suddenly become loving, considerate, and generous of spirit just because you put the ring on her. The more I hear about this, the more I think you should postpone this marriage for at least a year.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I think it's just a little bit more then marital jitters. If you look deeper into the situation, JMargel's fiancee has a history of neglect and sexual abuse. That REALLY affects a person and really haunts them for the rest of their lives. I work on a daily basis with victims of all kinds of sexual abuse and it really screws a person up.

 

JMargel, has your fiancée ever had individual counseling?

 

Thank goodness Leikela had the insight to bring this up. I wanted to ask about this myself, but didn't want to derail the original topic of your post.

 

J, what kind of counseling (if any) has your fiancée received concerning her sexual abuse in the past. I have been wondering about this since one of your earlier posts regarding your fiancée’s preference for...as you put it. . ."rough sex." I was hardly surprised when my suspicions were confirmed later on when you finally disclosed that she had been raped and also molested by a family member.

 

I am not in any way suggesting that this is the cause of her recent behavior, but unless the two of you deal with these deep-rooted issues and acquire a better understanding of them, the problems you are struggling with now may only be the tip of the iceberg. It would be difficult to say whether indulging her would be beneficial or detrimental to her emotional stability and growth right now. You are, in essence, becoming her 'new' family, and in order to avoid repeating any unhealthy patterns that may mirror her past, and eventually cause resentment, it's important to make sure that both of you are thoroughly educated on the subject.

[lurker04]

I've been lurking in the LS for a while now, and i have to say, most of your posts about your fiance underline some serious issues. She's being inconsiderate, she's been disrespectful, she's got tons of issues that she says she'll go to counselling for (but from what I can read - you've said that a lot, but she hasn't gone). But what is even more disturbing is the way her behaviour is making you change the way you behave. That comment about going to the bar where your woman-friend works - showed a spiteful, childish side of you.

 

Is this what you want for the rest of your life? Is this who you want to be?

 

I think you need to decide for yourself is this relationship causing more hurt and hassle than it is happiness? You are not married yet - now is the time to figure it out.

 

Do not confuse disrespectful, hurtful behaviour for premarital jitters.

[fredrolin]

IBS is a mental problem if you ask me.

 

My wife had IBS symptoms and went to 4 doctors for tests and was diagnosed with having Crohns disease by one doctor, food poisoning by another doctor, IBS by the third doctor, and the fourth doctor said nothing was wrong.

 

Yes there is good and bad in every profession.

 

But I think doctors are so f8cking worried about getting sued they only do the bare minimum to keep there nose clean.

[jmargel]

It's not that she doesn't love me, I can tell she does. She is always first to say 'I love you' but I can tell she gets hurt alot easier than she admits to. She has issues and she admits to them. She wants to goto counciling and I know she does want to work on things with me. She's been under a lot of changes. From just graduating school to moving in with me, to marriage. It's like we just need some time to enjoy ourselves. She has been under alot of stress and with me questioning her on alot of things I know that just adds more to it.

 

I think my best course of action which has helped in the past is to show her compromise. It seems like i've been more successful when she wants things her way, I tell her what I would like but then tell her she can have it anyway she wants. She then will usually offer to have things my way. We have done things that I wanted to do.

 

What is weird though if I can get a little personal is when we have sex, she is a very submissive person. Totally opposite from the way the relationship sometimes seems. It just screws with my head sometimes. Personally, I'm a very compassionate person who tries to understand, but I'm a dominate person as well. If I think something should be a certain way I'll express myself. And I see myself getting so involved in this relationship I am starting to base my self-worth on it. I have done that in the past as well. If a relationship fails or something is not right then I am the 'fixer'. That's something that needs to change about me. I don't blame that on her but it's something I want to change without becoming distant with my fiancee.

[moimeme]

She is always first to say 'I love you'

 

Words mean nothing, I'm afraid. My abusive guy said he loved me, too. Love is shown in actons.

 

She's been under a lot of changes. From just graduating school to moving in with me, to marriage. It's like we just need some time to enjoy ourselves. She has been under alot of stress and with me questioning her on alot of things I know that just adds more to it.

 

You are me, jmargel. You make allowances for people - which can be good, but there's a point where it becomes unreasonable. Fact is, life is full of stress. Thinking ' when X, Y, or Z stressful event is over, everything will be better' is fallacious; one stress will be replaced by another throughout your life. You both have to be able to deal with stress together as a team, not pulling into yourselves.

 

We have done things that I wanted to do

 

But not enough that you can't even feel comfortable about asking for music for your own wedding! To say 'well, she will sometimes let me have something I want if I do a dance on my head on a Thursday when the moon is full' is not the same thing as a loving desire to grant each other's wishes.

[jmargel]

I know her past sexual abuse has alot to do with this. She never talks about it. She was also pregnant a couple years ago from another guy who treated her bad. The baby died at birth due to a heart problem. She was told about this about 2 months before the baby was to be born, that it would not survive birth.

 

This now also stops her from wanting to have kids, which I would love to have. I talked to her sister-in-law and she told me her brother acts the same way she does. Very distant at times and at first Brandy (my fiancee) had a hard time showing emotions. Kim (Brandy's sis-in-law) also said her brother was distant and still is. But I need to becareful in that aspect as well. Kim as said a few things to me that kinda got me off guard. She flirts with me, in some ways. Such as last night we were going down to her basement to say Hi to Nick (Brandy's brother, and Kim's husband) and Kim is like "Im going to tell him your my boyfriend". Im thinking, huh? Kim and me do have a lot in common but my heart is with Brandy. I've told Brandy about it and she told me she's done that before. But she is trying to help out Brandy's family. We were in her dad's basement Sunday night, just Kim & me and Brandy's dad came down. We had a heart-to-heart with him about his marriage. That is on the verge of collapse.

 

Just like with my ex's family, my ex was abused by her mom. Over the years I had a feeling this would turn on me, and it did. It was just too much stress and I gave up way too much of myself in order to try to keep someone happy who wasn't happy within' themself. I vowed I would never go through that again. And your right things need to change before we get married. I'm not going to talk myself into thinking everything is ok when it's not.

 

I was lucky enough to come from a very loving family. My folks have been married for 35 years and my grandparents over 50. I've seen them argue but never once threaten to leave. That is what bothers me the most. I also don't want to be in a relationship like fredolin (no offense buddy) but I can't be a passive person letting her make all the decisions. I have one life and I will live it the way I want to be happy. I need to take some of my own advice I give on here. I'm just so glad for this forum, otherwise I could pretty well guarantee that our relationship would be over or me in an aslyum.

[moimeme]

and I gave up way too much of myself in order to try to keep someone happy who wasn't happy within' themself

 

Oh yes. Been there, got the depression to show for it. Love is about giving and even self-sacrifice but it has to stop before you give up so much of yourself you end up empty.

[befuddled11]

Originally posted by jmargel

This now also stops her from wanting to have kids, which I would love to have.

 

Dear J,

 

Read what you just wrote. You want children, but your fiancee doesn't. Why are you marrying someone who doesn't share your desire to have children? This simply isn't an issue where 2 people can compromise. How are you going to feel 5, 10, 25 yrs from now......without having children......having no grandchildren when you're older. A couple should *NEVER* get married if they have opposing views/desires related to having children.......I can't tell you how many times I've heard of couples divorcing because one wanted children but the other didn't.

 

Why are you "settling" for someone who doesn't share the same goals as you? Because that is what you're doing, settling. And you're short-changing yourself in a way you'll never be able to correct.

 

I'm not blaming your fiancee for not wanting to have children, due to the loss of her child a couple of years ago...her feelings are totally understandable....but what the heck are both of you doing, planning a wedding when you both have such different "wants" in this area?

 

WHEN is your wedding planned for???

 

You guys really need to START counselling ASAP........and put the wedding on hold......because it could take a good year of individual (mostly for her) and couples counselling to truly give all the issues a wholehearted "work-through"......and THEN see where you're at.

 

Yes, you love her...and you want to be there for her, but she's simply not in a healthy place to be making a serious, lifetime commitment to you. She's got a sh*tload of issues and baggage and her greatest concern is songs for the wedding, versus getting the help she (and you as a couple) needs. Doesn't this scare the crap out of you??

 

She's cold, she's moody, she's selfish, she's beligerent (the bar incident, the invitation to NY/Central Park), she's pushing you away, she's using her engagement ring as a tool to hurt you when she doesn't get her own way.......

 

JMARGEL....as someone who was once married to a selfish, power-hungry, controlling, moody, emotionally retarded goof, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.......don't even THINK about tying the knot until you've both addressed and worked through all of these serious issues. Something makes me think your wedding is planned for this coming September....geezus, that's only 5 months away ..............love YOURSELF enough to not settle for less.

[Debster]

Ok, you seem like a nice guy who genuinely tries to help others and give good advice. Here's my advice to you.

 

Please print off or review all of your posts about your fiance. The 3some one, the dealing with her family, the coworker on.... etc., etc., etc.

 

Now take off your, "I'm jmargel and I love her" hat, and instead, put on your "I'm jmargel and I'm giving someone advice" hat. What would you say to yourself?

Take out the emotion and just look at the facts.

 

It seems obvious to me that deep down you know this relationship is not working, but you love her and don't want to give up.

 

Sometimes you have to end a relationship - to make things better.

[jmargel]

End a relationship to make things better? Um.. No.

 

Everyone in her life has left her at some point in time. I gave a commitment to her when I proposed. We both acknowledge we have issues at hand but to just walk away from a situation like that, I couldn't do it.

 

I'm not asking whether or not I should end it with her. I'm asking on how to deal with the situations at hand until we get her into counciling. I don't want to continue the 'Princess' syndrom, yet I don't want to have a full drawn out arguement everytime we disagree. If she weren't upto going to counciling and not admitting she has a problem, then yes I would leave. That's not the case however. And yes this thread has opened my eyes to alot of things, especially the way I have been treated. That'll have to end if the marriage is going to take place but I'm willing to give it a chance.

[Darkangelism]

I think you will end getting married and in 5 years you will be miserable, nothing will change, you won't trust her, she will be controlling, you either needs to work things out or leave, and leaving might be the better option. You are overreacting to the co-worker thing, but when you add up all the thingd then there is a problem.

[Debster]

But he has his head in the sand.

Oh well, it's his life.

[Leikela]

I don't think his head is in the sand. He truly loves his fiancee and wants to make the effort to change things before throwing in the towel. Like he said, he made a committment to her and him splitting now would not be honoring that. When you truly love someone, you'll walk over hot coals to try and work things out. Give her the chance to go to counseling and put effort into changing. You have to realize she just moved in with him 2 weeks ago so this is all new. He isn't doing anything wrong by giving his fiancee a chance to get better emotionally. If this was an ongoing thing after a year or so then maybe leaving would be an option but I don't see that as one now.