Call Me Al Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 If the focus becomes 'how to fix someone else', the relationship is unhealthy. Thats all there is to it. I understand the desire to do so, but we cant control others regardless of how hard we may try.
sinnister Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 That's not necessarily true, it's different for every person dealing with someone with BPD... please, be constructive. They can't...it's not about them..they're not the focus of the show..so however they can....lol.
Desensitized Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Yeah...you need to PM me this stuff if you can. If I'm reopening stuff, I'm sorry..I know you've had longer time to endure it than me..and it sounds like pure hell. Just send me a PM of what you want to know, and I will try and help you as best as I can. As for now, I am going to bed.
betterdeal Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 So, I'm going through probably one of the hardest kinds of breakups possible at a horrible time in my life. At least I know why it's so hard.. I crave her and her attention to the core. It's not a simple long term breakup with a girl I loved.. it's breaking and tearing who I am and what I value and crave most in the world right now. CFM, I feel for you. Having been through a very similar process myself, I lost sight of who I was, or at least felt like that. But like you, I confronted what led me to be who I was, in order to find out how I ended up where I was. It hurts like hell. It's emotionally draining not only to lose a connection with someone who was close to your soul, but also to have lost some of yourself. I won't detail my story just now (it's available on this site, I'm sure in one of my many posts) but I will suggest a couple of books I found very useful over the past year: Boundaries and Relationships: Knowing, Protecting and Enjoying the Self - to me, this was good for getting the foundations right for rebuilding my self. It describes many things I was never taught as a child. I was annoyed by his constant references to his other books, and the god bollocks, but other than that, I found it very useful. Lost in the Mirror: An Inside Look at Borderline Personality Disorder - a very nicely written, and understanding book about BPD by a therapist who works with BPDers.
WTRanger Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Lol...all relationships r codependent. Funny how a woman is never considered co-dep. Sounds like a way to strip a man's manhood. Some dudes want a nice life with a nice girl and that drives their focus..some want to **** anything that moves...so what? Fact: Codependency (or codependence, co-narcissism or inverted narcissism) is a tendency to behave in overly passive or excessively caretaking ways that negatively impact one's relationships and quality of life. It also often involves putting one's needs at a lower priority than others while being excessively preoccupied with the needs of others.[1] Codependency can occur in any type of relationship, including in families, at work, in friendships, and also in romantic, peer or community relationships.[1] Codependency may also be characterized by denial, low self-esteem, excessive compliance, and/or control patterns. If that's how you operate in your relationships or see relationships, please seek professional help.
sinnister Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 If the focus becomes 'how to fix someone else', the relationship is unhealthy. Thats all there is to it. I understand the desire to do so, but we cant control others regardless of how hard we may try. So your girl gets drunk and wrecks a bunch of your cars after stealing your keys (this has happened to spouses/rs's with BPDers), you're telling me that you won't see to get them help? The focus of this is not to just fix anyone...I'm not going back to save her..I love the girl. I don't care what is said about it. If I have to be better, I will, but I love this person. I love what she meant to me, was with me..shared with me. It's gone, I know that..I also know why it's gone..but it doesn't change that love...and part of being BACK in the r/s is to help the one you love. I'm not going to go out while we're in the outs screaming "I have proof you have BPD", but if she's back..we'll get it checked on. I still want that day..I want to make it right..cause when it was..it was good. I know people have a lot of pride, and ulterior stuff, and can make things about themselves a lot and there's wrong with people who don't think like that in their eyes so they use what they've shared and personally shame and attack them w/o reason or undermine...but it doesn't change that love.
sinnister Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Just send me a PM of what you want to know, and I will try and help you as best as I can. As for now, I am going to bed. Yeeah..didn't mean now..but thanks for all you offered tonight...sorry I'm such a tough student..you lot r right btw.
WTRanger Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 So your girl gets drunk and wrecks a bunch of your cars after stealing your keys (this has happened to spouses/rs's with BPDers), you're telling me that you won't see to get them help? No, you don't see them get help because they will never get help. At this point, you are an enabler. This is no different than dealing with a drug addict or alcoholic. At some point in that addicts life, those people that are the closest to them must turn their backs and shun the addict from their life. Only then will the addict choose to stay addicted, OD, or seek help. They must feel that they have lost everything, including their safety nets. As long as you stay in the shadows, pick up the pieces, and are in the addicts life they will never full seek treatment. They will relapse or leave early because they have you to rely on. You enable their behavior just as if you were selling them the drugs or alcohol. It's gut wrenchingly hard to shut someone down in their time of need, but any real therapist or addiction specialist will tell you that it is the best thing to push that person to get them sober. Haven't you watched anything with Dr. Drew or one episode of Intervention?
Call Me Al Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) So your girl gets drunk and wrecks a bunch of your cars after stealing your keys (this has happened to spouses/rs's with BPDers), you're telling me that you won't see to get them help? The focus of this is not to just fix anyone...I'm not going back to save her..I love the girl. I don't care what is said about it. If I have to be better, I will, but I love this person. I love what she meant to me, was with me..shared with me. It's gone, I know that..I also know why it's gone..but it doesn't change that love...and part of being BACK in the r/s is to help the one you love. I'm not going to go out while we're in the outs screaming "I have proof you have BPD", but if she's back..we'll get it checked on. I still want that day..I want to make it right..cause when it was..it was good. I know people have a lot of pride, and ulterior stuff, and can make things about themselves a lot and there's wrong with people who don't think like that in their eyes so they use what they've shared and personally shame and attack them w/o reason or undermine...but it doesn't change that love. I think if a girl I was dating did that, I would end the relationship. Assuming this girl does have BPD...your definition of love is far, far different from her concept or understanding of it. "If I have to be better, I will"...what does that mean? You'll adhere to a mentally ill persons skewed set of standards to appease the relationship? Im not trying to put you on the defense here, but I am trying to understand what you mean. Edited June 3, 2011 by Call Me Al
sinnister Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 No, you don't see them get help because they will never get help. At this point, you are an enabler. This is no different than dealing with a drug addict or alcoholic. At some point in that addicts life, those people that are the closest to them must turn their backs and shun the addict from their life. Only then will the addict choose to stay addicted, OD, or seek help. They must feel that they have lost everything, including their safety nets. As long as you stay in the shadows, pick up the pieces, and are in the addicts life they will never full seek treatment. They will relapse or leave early because they have you to rely on. You enable their behavior just as if you were selling them the drugs or alcohol. It's gut wrenchingly hard to shut someone down in their time of need, but any real therapist or addiction specialist will tell you that it is the best thing to push that person to get them sober. Haven't you watched anything with Dr. Drew or one episode of Intervention? Lol..watching is not the same as living. You don't know what you'd do until you're in that situation fully..you do learn what you wont do again. I just don't get the certainty people giving some of these answers have. It's not as easy as you make it..and how I choose to deal with a problem does not define or undermine the classic definition of love. Lastly, your opinion is ONLY A TACTIC...addicts do not always need to be shunned in order to not be "enabled" or seek treatment. Again, people that see outside of living. Some actually can self-reflect....some actually see that they're tired of the stress associated with their behaviors...some see in the mirror how they've fallen..and some get that knowledge from the people they love/trust the most and actually use it. One size again..doesn't fit all with humans. We're so complicated and from so many backgrounds.
sinnister Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 I think if a girl I was dating did that, I would end the relationship. Assuming this girl does have BPD...your definition of love is far, far different from her concept or understanding of it. "If I have to be better, I will"...what does that mean? You'll adhere to a mentally ill persons skewed set of standards to appease the relationship? Im not trying to put you on the defense here, but I am trying to understand what you mean. I don't ask anything of anyone that I'm not prepared to do myself..or earn myself..that's all.
betterdeal Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 What is it about BPD that makes a person want to stay or go back to them when they emotional and mentally abuse you? I was just curious... Because from the outside looking in, it looks like a drug (person) addiction. In my case, it was two people (me and her) trying to please each other, be what we thought the other wanted, driven by a deep rooted need to be loved, to "belong", to have someone to hang onto, especially if they "get" you. I certainly wanted to be the woodcutter, just looking for a little red riding hood to rescue, and she was just the ticket. The problem with that set up is there needs to be a wolf for the relationship to be valid. For there to be a victim there needs to be an abuser. In reality, we swapped roles frequently and variously rescued, abused and were victimised by each other and others, often in parallel. In her eyes, I was the frog that would turn into her prince - we were both trying to be rescuers to start with. It was all worth it for those brief, candid moments, when we (both in our mid-thirties) let down all the façades and shared our 12/13 year old inner selves. Just like ecstasy (my drug of choice) or cocaine (her drug of choice), we'd found something that allowed us to be our carefree selves, to take the pain away. But those moments became fewer and fewer as we spiralled downwards, until, eventually, I called it off, and then we really started to get unstable, to the point where we both felt suicidal and I made a serious attempt to kill myself (without telling her - not a cry for help or attention seeking). Even after that and 3 weeks in a mental health ward, we kept trying to revive it for a year, meeting about once a month. Eventually, this February, I changed my phone number, blocked Facebook and all that jazz. I handed my notice in at work (well paid, boring IT job) and completed my massage therapy certificate. I am now in week 3 of a month off, with a view to building my own business as a massage therapist starting in a week or so. It was harrowing. It was worth it.
WTRanger Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Lol..watching is not the same as living. You don't know what you'd do until you're in that situation fully..you do learn what you wont do again. I just don't get the certainty people giving some of these answers have. It's not as easy as you make it..and how I choose to deal with a problem does not define or undermine the classic definition of love. Lastly, your opinion is ONLY A TACTIC...addicts do not always need to be shunned in order to not be "enabled" or seek treatment. Again, people that see outside of living. Some actually can self-reflect....some actually see that they're tired of the stress associated with their behaviors...some see in the mirror how they've fallen..and some get that knowledge from the people they love/trust the most and actually use it. One size again..doesn't fit all with humans. We're so complicated and from so many backgrounds. An addict will never self reflect as long as they have an enabler and their safety net. Plain and simple. No addict I have ever known, nor any of the men I served with in the Marines that came home messed up have ever gone to seek treatment until they have felt that they have lost everything and that includes the people closest to them. You have no idea what I've been through in life, nor what I have experienced, or what I have seen and done. The reason why some people, including myself, would like to strangle you through the computer is that we've been there and done that. We've made the same cock-ups that you have and we are trying to give you some advice based on our life and our experiences. But I guess you know everything since any person who posts something that doesn't fit your skewed view of saving your girl from the BPD dragon is immediately met with snark. Why are you even on here if you are going to fight everyone's point of view? The only people you seem to agree with are those that fit your God complex of saving this girl.
sinnister Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 An addict will never self reflect as long as they have an enabler and their safety net. Plain and simple. No addict I have ever known, nor any of the men I served with in the Marines that came home messed up have ever gone to seek treatment until they have felt that they have lost everything and that includes the people closest to them. You have no idea what I've been through in life, nor what I have experienced, or what I have seen and done. The reason why some people, including myself, would like to strangle you through the computer is that we've been there and done that. We've made the same cock-ups that you have and we are trying to give you some advice based on our life and our experiences. But I guess you know everything since any person who posts something that doesn't fit your skewed view of saving your girl from the BPD dragon is immediately met with snark. Why are you even on here if you are going to fight everyone's point of view? The only people you seem to agree with are those that fit your God complex of saving this girl. Don't you even ****ing start with that...I mean you pretty much snarked CFM out of here...it's you with the "strangle you through the PC" and the control issues. Everything isn't your way/wrong way. I know you think you have experience..I know you use your military exp as some sort of pass to be right on ****..but you're not...civilians can actally have a range of drug scenarios...military dudes have to worry about a different set of scenarios, mindsets. I respect your service..but it's irrelevant, and I'd wish people like you would stop playing that card to bully/get cheap cred. There's people who are civilians that were military people and there's military people that think they're better than the civilians...which one do you think you sound like. Again...nothing's black/white...this or that...I've seen people want to be clean in the worst states for a myriad of reason...some even being they were spoken to and accepted by people that they thought never would. We don't know what inspires people..but if we don't ask and tell them what will fix them...make them...we never get their full potential. I love people enough to actually listen to them...yes I will get lied to sometimes..but that's my risk in not making it about me.
betterdeal Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 If that were the case, I know I could totally just date a person with BPD... Relationship, hell no! You're happy taking something from someone who is ill? I think that's abuse, much like f*cking someone in a coma. They often try to f*ck the pain away, but it never works.
Desensitized Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 You're happy taking something from someone who is ill? I think that's abuse, much like f*cking someone in a coma. They often try to f*ck the pain away, but it never works. Too true. My ex had an extensive sexual history.
betterdeal Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Too true. My ex had an extensive sexual history. Mine preferred cum in her face to a kiss.
Mack05 Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) Wow this thread went nuts. Just want to thank Downtown and Pelican Pete for their brilliant advice to me over the past few weeks. Some fanastic points made. Maybe my ex has BPD, maybe she doesn't. There is definitely something amiss with her and she certainly has most of the BPD traits/behaviour/characteristics but at the end of the day 1) I am not an expert and 2) It doesn't matter. It takes to two to tango and I was a major factor in the relationship breaking up. I am working on myself and my faults. It's over with my ex forever. I wish her well, but I can't worry about her or focus on her faults any longer. Not if I want to be a better man going forward and achieve the fulfulling relationship and happiness that I am striving for.. This is one of the better sites on the net. Been a great help and comfort to me during the worst period of my life. I can thank all enough. I would not be where I am today without the support I have received from my family, my friends, my Therapist and this site. It's 25 degrees outside today. After 5 long years, I'm in danger of becoming happy again :-) Edited June 3, 2011 by Mack05
Author CFM Posted June 3, 2011 Author Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) Never seen a thread blow up like this on here before, lol.. lots of opinions in here. Well, after about 24 hours of hardcore researching and everything else about this I needed to step away and just clear my head a little. It's insane to look back and realize all of these negative traits that plagued my once amazing relationship with this girl. We're both still young, I've just turned 25 and she'll be 22 in a few weeks. I've been emotionally involved with her since she was 17 and regardless of what all has happened between us I'm happy that she was part of my life and my journey. Now my question is what exactly I should do to sever this long relationship and how exactly I should go about it. I'm reluctant to go full NC. She showed up at my apartment this evening and I decided to take her out to dinner. During our time together I just kept looking at her and listening very intently to everything she said. She's such a great girl.. so funny, smart, and she truly does care about the people she loves. I know I'm one of those people, as well as her brothers and her mother. I know that at any point in my life that I truly need her she will be there for me. We talked some about our relationship.. where things went, where things are, where they need to go. She really wants me in her life as her friend right now, and I honestly think I'm the one that's been making that impossible. Her reasoning for not wanting to step back into anything together is 100% valid, her concerns.. 100% valid. I know that I don't want to be with her either right now.. that it's bad for either of us, but it's like I just crave her wanting me more than anyone else. She's been straight forward with me in that she's not pursuing any romantic relationship with anyone right now. She promised me that regardless of our status she wouldn't have sex with anyone she isn't dating, and that right now in her life the last thing she wants is to date. She is still hurt from what happened between her and I and she just wants freedom from the possibility of that hurt in her life. She has kissed this guy, and he started to want more and she denied him it. I'm proud of her for not giving into him and staying strong about that, I was afraid it would be like when she had cheated and she gave herself to someone without question. So, after she went home I debated more what should happen between us. Before I had felt like she was using me.. but I've come to realize she really isn't. She isn't leading me on and leading him on at the same time. She's tried to be as up front with me as possible about most all of this and told me we just can't be each other's lives right now. She can't emotionally handle sleeping with me or always being uptight about what I'm doing or not doing right. She just wants friends right now.. options, and to enjoy being a young adult. I guess I don't really blame her. Part of me thinks maybe without being in a serious relationship she's able to be somewhat normal. That maybe it wouldn't be a terrible thing for us to be friends, to just have fun together without all of the drama and strings attached. From what she's said I believe she just wants out of the entire situation with her home life, but doesn't want to leave her mother.. and right now they don't have the means to just move away and be done with her father and the situation. Do you guys think that if her world completely changed (would be about 1.5 yrs from now when she finishes up nursing school/moves to a completely different state) that someone like her would be able to make a full recovery and ditch the old habits present in our relationship? Do you think we could heal together, or is this something that is just a lost cause? I don't know if it's just being half asleep or what but I feel like "damn.. maybe I just need to stop analyzing everything, myself, her, and just get some fresh air and enjoy each other's company from time to time and focus on myself". For so long the feelings have just been so intense I'm either sad, angry, stressed, etc. I just wish it could be simple, and wish I didn't care so damn much. Right now I just feel like.. who cares if she even started dating another guy. She doesn't want to replace me or push me out of her life.. and I know that chances are they will never connect like her and I did. Wish I could keep my brain from feeling every other minute that this scenario is the end of the world. Is me thinking this way just another way of trying to hold on? Is her ending the constant breakup/reconciliation pattern, and not wanting to jump right back into us without changes, progress in our relationship? It's hard to know if I'm just further sabotaging myself or if there is actual hope in our case. Edited June 3, 2011 by CFM
betterdeal Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 My take is you fully lose contact. You are the one maintaining an unhealthy relationship. Of the people I know who have reunited with a past love, they spent years apart and did their own things. My belief is that in order to become good friends (and I believe that's the sound basis of all good relationships - being friends), after an intensely traumatic experience together, you need to lose contact with one another. Sometimes a good enemy better than a bad friend. Enemies become strangers when the dust has settled, and strangers are just friends we haven't met yet. I think in terms of years, not weeks or months, to make the kinds of changes that are need to be a stable yet spontaneous, strong yet flexible, healthy, confident, humble, no-grudges kind of person - the kind of person you want to be in a relationship with, right?
Fedor Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Symptoms of BPD? My ex did the following: 1. The sex was crazy, especially towards the end. I dont want to say I was pressured but I dont like doing it unsafe. 2. Last summer, she swore she was going to have a heart attack. The entire summer she went on and on about how this chest pain was killing her. Turns out it was a little gas and heartburn.. But even then she still thought bad things 3. Gets depressed over the littlest things. 4. She feared not being with me for almost the entire relationship. Almost every few weeks I had to convince her that I loved her. I suppose my ego is a little bruised now. lol 5. She told me when she was alot younger that she thought she was going to die in her sleep. She left goodbye notes in her desk droor just in case. I didnt dig further because I didnt think anything of it. With all this being said, I dont think my ex has BPD. Some of it is just part of being a women( needy, wants excitement) and some of it is just being a hypochondriac because some women do like to take it to the extreme. Hell, I dont know. lol
Downtown Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 I certainly wanted to be the woodcutter, just looking for a little red riding hood to rescue, and she was just the ticket. The problem with that set up is there needs to be a wolf for the relationship to be valid.Betterdeal, I'm so glad to hear you are still building yourself stronger, including a new career that better reflects the caregiver you are. Perhaps if you do enough caregiving on your new job (massage therapy), you won't feel the need to overdo it with a GF when going home. Incidentally, you are still writing wonderful posts that pull me in. I therefore still feel the way about your writing as I did back in April, when I wrote:BetterDeal, I keep running into your posts on the threads I participate in -- those where a "Non" (typically, a codependent NonBPDer like me) is struggling to recover from a toxic relationship with a BPDer (i.e., person with strong BPD traits, either above or below the diagnostic level). After having read over a hundred of your posts, I just want to report that your insights into that disorder -- and what is required to extricate oneself from such a toxic relationship -- are articulate, compassionate, and downright amazing. Your posts are a treasure trove of valuable information.
sinnister Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Betterdeal, I'm so glad to hear you are still building yourself stronger, including a new career that better reflects the caregiver you are. Perhaps if you do enough caregiving on your new job (massage therapy), you won't feel the need to overdo it with a GF when going home. Incidentally, you are still writing wonderful posts that pull me in. I therefore still feel the way about your writing as I did back in April, when I wrote:BetterDeal, I keep running into your posts on the threads I participate in -- those where a "Non" (typically, a codependent NonBPDer like me) is struggling to recover from a toxic relationship with a BPDer (i.e., person with strong BPD traits, either above or below the diagnostic level). After having read over a hundred of your posts, I just want to report that your insights into that disorder -- and what is required to extricate oneself from such a toxic relationship -- are articulate, compassionate, and downright amazing. Your posts are a treasure trove of valuable information. Too true..
Desensitized Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Mine preferred cum in her face to a kiss. As did mine... did we by chance date the same BPD? xD
betterdeal Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Betterdeal, I'm so glad to hear you are still building yourself stronger, including a new career that better reflects the caregiver you are. Perhaps if you do enough caregiving on your new job (massage therapy), you won't feel the need to overdo it with a GF when going home. Incidentally, you are still writing wonderful posts that pull me in. I therefore still feel the way about your writing as I did back in April, when I wrote:BetterDeal, I keep running into your posts on the threads I participate in -- those where a "Non" (typically, a codependent NonBPDer like me) is struggling to recover from a toxic relationship with a BPDer (i.e., person with strong BPD traits, either above or below the diagnostic level). After having read over a hundred of your posts, I just want to report that your insights into that disorder -- and what is required to extricate oneself from such a toxic relationship -- are articulate, compassionate, and downright amazing. Your posts are a treasure trove of valuable information. I'm touched, honestly! Thank you and I'm glad you like them
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