Is this normal for guys to do... while I'm burdened with pain and struggles just for

[aroseInLove]

First.. let me say.. I am so grateful for perspectives... they truly help me search inside my soul.. and his.. from a different angle... I am so very moved this moment... I have so emotion for this man... for this set of issues ... I need help.. and I am scared beyond belief to do the wrong thing...

 

About this man I love what seems like more than life itself... I'm going to 1st ans. these questions.. then add in a few facts along the way that may set the picture to be a bit clearer...

 

Originally posted by Kate

1. Does he seem too good to be true?....

Absolutely... He IS a miracle in my world. Keep in mind I married my 8th grade sweetheart that beat me up through 2 pregnancies,,, After divorce I dated guy#2 in my lifetime.. a complete bum gigiolo.. dumped him and made a conscious decision to NOT date.. to NOT bring men home for my girls to 'wake up to' so I lived the next 20+ yrs. alone.... no dating until my girls went off to grad school and my parents died.. That was 2+ yrs. ago.. I then dated Guys# 3, 4, and 5.... They were aggressive sexually.. though sweet-talking and seemingly kind.. they were liars.... showed their colors.. each was short-lived.. Here I am.. ready to RETURN to my world of NO DATING.. as it was less drama.. less intrusive ..less complicated....Thank God no more .. liars.. cheats, pigs.. etc. .. I'll live my life ALONE... THEN .. by a fluke.. an accidental happening.. I meet this GEM..guy ..#4 in my lifetime...

 

 

Originally posted by Kate

2. Did you fall for him immediately?

YES.. Almost embarrassed to say this.. but, in truth, I do NOT attract easily.. When I say he's guy#6 in my lifetime, I'm saying there have been only 6 men in my lifetime I felt chemistry for.. I've been approached by too many to count.. educated.. respectful .. real nice people .. BUT for some reason.. if I can't feel that immediate spark.. they're shut OUT and they don't stand a chance.. The SECOND my eyes set on this soul I am so in love with, every single hair on my forearms raised like a porcupine.. I was mesmerized.. He's no GQ.. but he is to ME.. When we spoke and I felt his breath (imagine?) I wanted MORE of his breath... I think I WOULD have taken him to bed ... I had a heightened chemistry I've never known in my lifetime.. After I got in my car and headed home... I asked myself over and over.. what is happening to me?...

 

Originally posted by Kate

3. Does he read a lot of philosophy? Or other books?

No, he has NO time ...

 

Originally posted by Kate

4. What is his occupation?

He's a police lieutenant in NY in a very rough and fast-paced environment with lives at risk every minute.. working 12 hour days...

 

Just a bit more background; He tells me:

...He hasn't gone past 2 dates with ANYONE since his divorce 12 yrs ago.

...When he and his ex-wife were first married, she got pregnant with only child... In this time period he and his ex-wife made a mutual conscious decision for him to take this promotion/transfer out of state where he'd sign and be held to contract for the next four years; so he bought a 2nd home in this new state.. he went first to get the house 'perfect for her and new baby' while he had to remain in similar to residency-training around the clock for first 30 days.. .. so he didn't sell house#1; At end of 30 days w/2 houses and 2 mortgages, she REFUSES to come move in w/him.. He is devastated.. he keeps both houses.. he drives b/f to see wife and baby near ev. day off for the next 4 years.. At end of contact he moves home.. hoping that counseling will bring them back as a family AND she wants a divorce.. she moves out with 4 y/o daughter.. Even with extremely high child-support (still paying and child is 20 and in college)... At that time she calls him and says she's homeless with their 4 y/o child that he better do something.. So he buys a duplex.. lets mother and baby stay on one side.. free.. utilities all paid by this soul I love... while he sets up house for himself on the other half of the duplex.. He figures he'd see his little girl daily.. what a gift to him.. Turns out little girl runs over.. and is always looking for food... Next thing you know, he supplies FULL LOAD of groceries to that household.. so fearful the 4 y/o girl's not eating right.. This went on until 3 short years ago.. she lived totally free while keeping child support and ONLY moved out because SHE fell in love and moved in with her BF.. daughter is now off to college.. He says every date he's had.. women have been immoral.. UN-ethical.. drinkers.. he says one after the other were causing him to believe he'd live his life ALONE as I was thinking.. though he hoped someday to find someone.. but says he never did... until Me..

 

 

Originally posted by Kate

5. Does he appear to be your "rock" sometimes and then other times you don't know if he is coming or going?

He's so very strong in body and mind and soul, that he IS my rock; the ONLY time I feel I don't know if he is coming or going is when he does not respond.. or when he cancels dates he can't seem to find time to make up..

 

Originally posted by Kate

6. Are you infatuated with him as well as thinking you love him?

Date after date... We kiss like we'll never see each other again, yet STILL... he does NOT remotely suggest being physical,,, what a shock.. When he calls, we have long conversations about my parents' lives no less... He gives me compliments on getting 2-special needs girls into college and then grad school.. he tells me i'm unique..... Always asking me about my girls.. my work... More dates.. We go hiking.. biking... swimming.. still NOT physical... I near want to attack HIM... I want his breath on my skin.. but no, he drops me off.. and doesn't even come into my house.. and he lives in another state.. he goes home.. imagine? TWO MONTHS later... I never mention the word 'love' EVER... Then the day came.. he leaves me a message .. says.. I love you.. I miss you.... I near died... he said it first.. I knew that SECOND it was so far beyond infatuation; I was in love.. with his heart... his soul.. and his mind.. This man tells me he's in love.. though still not yet physical...

 

Originally posted by Kate

7. Does he give off a vibe of over-confidence, but insist it is genuine and he wants to help others?

No.. I almost see an insecurity... he's a bit shy.. I see countless acts of genuineness in him that I find out after-the-fact.. and not that he's boasting about it.. for instance.. .. ie. when east coast power grid went down last fall, NY had no water from their wells run by elect. pumps.. this man... collected truck loads of bottled water.. looked up ev. senior citizen he could find.. to check on them and bring them water for meds, etc.. and this is just ONE of so MANY examples..

 

Originally posted by Kate

8. Is he religious?

Yes, he is.. in the sense that he follows the rules of the Bible, so to speak, he believes in God.. loves God.. Says he hoped for a woman in his life to be the same.. but has one downfall, no time for church..

 

Originally posted by DancesWithWolves

Every individual is special and important in many ways. Now if you have someone special in your heart, then why is it so hard for them to spare 5 minutes of their day which consists of 24hours or 1440 minutes? Did you know that 5 minutes is only .34% (not 3.4%, it's .34%) of their total time that's given in a day? Doesn't that fact make you feel salty knowing that he won't even spare not even 1 percent of his time in a day?

YES... this is TRUTH.. I know this.. I write software; I'm an analyst by profession.. so by default my brain inherently DOES weigh this AND feels this very thing in my bones EVERY SINGLE TIME I can't reach him...

 

Originally posted by DancesWithWolves

If I were in your shoes, this is what I would do. I would suggest that we take a break for a bit to re-evaluate the value in the relationship so that one can be more certain about exactly what you two have.

THIS is why I looked to Love Shack for HELP.. I don't know < H-O-W >...

If this beautiful soul says he loves me to death.. that he is walking on air that he has me... that he believes I'm the VERY FIRST person in his 40-something y/o world to be UNIQUE as he says.. to be LOYAL... as he says.. to be a hassle-free breath of fresh air that he wants for the rest of his life...... so he says.. Well, help me PLEASE people... IF I do as is suggested here, does that not ALTER me??????????????????

 

Bless every single one of you, rose

[Kate]

I only want to help you.

 

First, in my question about "does he seem too good to be true?" you only spoke of the horrible experiences you've had -- please make sure that he is not inadequate in a DIFFERENT way -- just because he doesn't beat you. just because he seems like a God in COMPARISON to the others, doesn't mean he is. don't confuse that.

 

Being a cop, he may seriously be immune to ANYTHING moving/emotional -- it is his JOB. If this is so, and you can't talk to him, what are you doing to do?

 

The point is, you are not getting what you want from him. I assume he loves you, but that's not always enough.

[aroseInLove]

Thank you for wanting to help, Kate.. and everyone else too..... It is so very very appreciated..

 

Originally posted by Kate

First, in my question about "does he seem too good to be true?" you only spoke of the horrible experiences you've had -- please make sure that he is not inadequate in a DIFFERENT way -- just because he doesn't beat you. just because he seems like a God in COMPARISON to the others, doesn't mean he is. don't confuse that.

Maybe I am confused..

 

I see this saint-like man I truly love and have extremely heightened chemistry for-- and both ARE vice-versa I am certain..

 

Regarding our goals, dreams, views on family and life itself, we are both in synch. and ON TARGET 100%..

 

The ONLY inadequacy .. and it scares me ...is THIS set of issues where he is ...as you say.. "immune to ANYTHING moving/emotional".... It rips my heart out...

 

Originally posted by Kate

Being a cop, he may seriously be immune to ANYTHING moving/emotional -- it is his JOB. If this is so, and you can't talk to him, what are you doing to do?

That is a REAL good point.. he's dealing with murders and high crime night after night... always in the cross-fire.. MY issues must seem so trivial ....even possibly 'girlie' for lack of a better word this moment... in such a masculine mind of his... So, maybe his mind is programmed and STUCK THERE...

 

Originally posted by Kate

The point is, you are not getting what you want from him. I assume he loves you, but that's not always enough.

He does love me.. and all these words help me see HIS angle.. ...helps me understand HIM..

 

Now.. since this incident happened 2 days ago.. he's been loving...he's so very kind and sweet.. he's so anxious to see me.. we're making plans to do things... and he has called more than expected or promised..

 

.. BUT it WILL happen again.. for sure.. ...question is HOW to FIX that he IS inadequate in that DIFFERENT way ..in that he IS immune to ANYTHING moving/emotional..

 

I'm certain if I knew the right words.. he'd listen... .. I don't KNOW what to say.. how to say it.. when to say it.. without being as drastic as giving him a challenge to make me not be who he believes I am...

 

I LOVE that he sees that in me.. how could I challenge that... I, IN ERR, might present a quality in myself he wishes to NOT HAVE...

 

He could walk away thinking I'm not who he thought I was.. like all the rest in his life..

 

He says over and over to me.. to his mom.. to his friends.. that he fell so very in love with a 'unique hassle-free breath of fresh air that he wants for the rest of his life..' Please Dear God help me... HOW on earth, do I disrupt that feeling in his sweet loving soul AND FIX this at the same time?

[Kate]

You can not hide YOU. I completely identify with what you are saying!!! Not to digress completely, but I have had very turbulent relationships in the past. I have FINALLY found someone who I feel stable and consistent with...however, I'm afraid of my flaws. I'm afraid that to him, I am smoke and mirrors...and that once he sees what I really feel inside, he will run.

 

Now, intellectually, I can say this, but not EMOTIONALLY: Why do I want someone who doesn't want/accept me for me? YOU accept this man for his flaws -- the very ones you are talking about!! Why wouldn't he do the same? You are miserable right now -- and he is happy. Is that FAIR? No, it is not. You need to believe, without being aggressive or irrational, that you DESERVE your feelings, you are entitled to them, and your partners job is to address those feelings so you two can work together!! Oh -- but I do understand your fear....honey....and do you know what it comes from? Always feeling you are not good enough. But you will never get anything that you don't ask for. I know it will break your heart if you don't get what you want from him...but there is truly only one way to know that. WHAT if you talk to him and he suprises you and gives you what you want? That is a complete possibility given what you have shared here.

 

You are a sweet soul and too hard on yourself. It's too damn easy to automatically react to pain and self-inflict -- which is what you could be doing by worrying about something you haven't taken action on. Here is what I think you need to do:

 

Make a list of points. First, all the bad. Then, all the good. THEN, all the realities -- meaning "I have been abused in the past", "I am not good enough to myself", "His job may contribute to his actions", "I have not communicated my thoughts to him". Then, compile a plan. Tell him you would love to meet with him because there are some very important things you want to discuss. DON'T be afraid of ruining a good day, evening, whatever. I know what you mean about wanting your guy to think that you are stress-free, whatever -- it's because every other a**h*** made you feel like just breathing was bothering him!! Remember, you are a victim, but it doesn't mean you have to act like one. Keep things in perspective. Then, when you meet with him, bring your list. This is important because you will not lose your train of thought. Don't worry if he thinks it is funny, he will respect it. I just did this 2 days ago! IMPORTANT: Make sure you are at your best, in a great mood, positive, rested and healthy. If you are down, it will totally throw off the whole objective. Then, sit with him, calmly, make eye contact, smile, and start from the beginning. He will not dismiss your feelings -- he will be SO impressed that you are so mature, collected and diplomatic about it -- especially being that he is a police officer! He will appreciate the way you chose to deliver this operation -- methodically and rationally. STart by telling him that you have ideal respect for your relationship, but you are struggling severely inside. That you need to communicate certain things from him and that you need his understanding and communication in order for things to progress. You do NOT need to say this with tears in your eyes, high emotion, etc. Think of it as a tough business meeting or sale. Address the fact that you realize, given his line of work, that a certain disposition is required -- avoidance, immunity, etc. You respect that, but different and special attentioin needs to be applied to your relationship. Tell him you respect the fact that while he is working it is hard for him to seperate work and you, but that you want him to help you understand where he is coming from. ASK HIM QUESTIONS!!! Never attacking ones. REally assess the situation before you meet with him and do what he does -- cut off your emotions at that time so that you can have the most productive meeting possible. This is what I did for my guy 2 days ago -- and the look on his face shocked me -- it was a look of relief and love.

 

My guy just got out of a long, crazy relationship 1 month prior to dating me...and the LAST thing he wants or can handle is drama. So I have been going crazy trying to be the "stable rational girl". Forget it, you can't impose that kind of pressure on yourself. Find a way to deal with it so you don't blow up one day. I did this a few times, and my guy was close to leaving me, even though he didn't say it. I truly saved our relationship when I addressed the feelings a certain way.

 

REMEMBER: With men, it's not the message you are sending -- it's the delivery of the message. Think constructively, like a business issue, and deliver it. Speak his language, show him how much you understand HIM. Take the time to put this together and set your emotions ASIDE at the time. You will have plenty of time for it later.

 

If all goes well, you will know where he stands and you can both start negotiating your needs. Try not to use womanly terms or body language, be direct but DON'T SUGAR COAT anything.

 

If this does not work, you will remove yourself with a sense of pride, dignity and self-awareness.

 

MY BEST WISHES TO YOU....

 

-- Kate

[aroseInLove]

Thank you, Kate.. I'll work on my list... I'll post back when I'm near ready... but I AM scared to death here... but as we are talking about the 'rest of our lives'.. I guess it's time I deal...

 

Also, I don't know if you read any segments of my mentioning marriage in this thread... but It IS an issue.. as I don't WANT to initiate the subject of marriage.. or commitment.. Just like his telling me he loved me.. that was a true gift to me that he said it first... Same now, about this moving in with him.. Though he mentioned it in the past several times (though not lately) in issues.. like health insurance.. etc.. saying, "When we're married..." So, I do know it's in the cards for us.. somewhere.. But now, as we're coming closer to his move, there's no 'm' word in sight... or sound..

 

As you are so very helpful, what is your opinion here? Is THAT something in some way that could be HINTED at in that list.. YES, I AM a child.. a coward.. I admit it.. so I PRAY for a work-around.. so HE initiates the 'm' word.. .. just like his telling me he loved me.... It was such a gift .. I WANT him to initiate the subject of marriage.. or commitment.. as well.. I'd feel robbed otherwise.. Thanks so much..

[moimeme]

DAMN AND BLAST. And other assorted expletives. I just was finishing a long reply and my *&^% IE froze solid.

 

grrrrrrrr. hmph.

 

 

 

This will be the briefer version.

 

There are a TON of red flags here. This IM blocking/ no call returns is the least of your worries.

 

1.

I see this saint-like man

Why would he dupe me if he is otherwise near a saint... He's become a miracle to me...

 

No man is a saint or is saint-like. Either you are given to hyperbole and excessive drama, or you are far too infatuated with this man to be properly objective about your feelings. There are wonderful, splended, terrific men, but no mere mortal is a 'saint', except maybe Mother Theresa or her sort.

 

If you have ever hinted to this guy that you feel he is 'saint-like', that in itself would be off-putting. No normal mortal wants to be adored to that degree and you are way too nuts about him.

 

2. I truly love and have extremely heightened chemistry for-- and both ARE vice-versa I am certain

 

We kiss like we'll never see each other again, yet STILL... he does NOT remotely suggest being physical,,, what a shock

 

This man tells me he's in love.. though still not yet physical...

 

There are men who are respectful and who wait until you've at least spoken of love before going past kisses, but you two have been seeing each other for a year, have spoken of a lifetime together, have both been married and had kids, and still no mention of sex? This does not sound good.

 

He says every date he's had.. women have been immoral

This in combination with the above really does not sound good. He could be one of those men who thinks that women who like sex are 'sluts' and 'whores'. You should at least have had some discussion about this, certainly if you're thinking of moving in with him.

 

I'm certain if I knew the right words.. he'd listen... .. I don't KNOW what to say.. how to say it.. when to say it.. without being as drastic as giving him a challenge to make me not be who he believes I am...

 

Can anyone help me make the 'right' words for him to BE "reachable" and truly caring if I am in need of hearing from him or seeing him for any reason..keeping in mind.. never to be abused.. or pressured...

 

You are making the same mistake many women make; thinking that his failure to hear/listen to what you're saying is your fault when in fact it is his failure to give any consideration to your concerns. There will be no 'right words' to repair this.

 

wants me for the rest of his life he says.. it sort of gave me 'permission' in my mind to share whatever DRAMA/CRAP was hapenning in my world on a day-to-day basis

 

He says 'when we're married ...... ' but he never says when.. that 'when' will occur.. yet the move is coming closer and closer.. I can't bring myself to bring 'marriage' up.. IF he wants to marry me, he's going to initiate it, not me.. for sure.. so I'm hoping that WILL happen first.. but that's another issue.. how to tell him I need a commitment first without his proposal happenning ..as it sure is leaning in that direction.

 

And

 

We do have so much fun.. we dance.. go hiking.. swimming.. we laugh.. and never realized it, but we never talk about any issues when we are out having fun.. Not intentionally, but as I reflect on all our dates we just love life... and each other.

 

You don't discuss things. This is no basis for a relationship. You say:

 

Regarding our goals, dreams, views on family and life itself, we are both in synch. and ON TARGET 100%

 

however you're not comfortable with discussing your life with him or sex and don't dare discuss marriage. I put to you that you are neither in synch or on target, given all the above.

 

This is my take on it: you have yourself a controlling man who does not want you to 'control' him by 'dictating' when you can speak to him or when he should call you. He may or may not be tired of your drama, but if that's an issue, he should be discussing it with you. You are besotted with this guy to the extent that you have idealized him - perhaps because your own romantic life thus far has been so disappointing that by comparison he looks like heaven. You've all but buried yourself in this guy.

 

Absolutey do not sell your house OR marry him until you have discussed all of these issues with him to your satisfaction (i.e. that he has truly heard you and acted on your requests) and until you've spent some time with him, hopefully indulging in at least more physical stuff.

 

I'm sorry, but it appears to me that this whole thing has the signs of a train wreck about to happen.

[aroseInLove]

Originally posted by moimeme

There are men who are respectful and who wait until you've at least spoken of love before going past kisses, but you two have been seeing each other for a year, have spoken of a lifetime together, have both been married and had kids, and still no mention of sex?

 

A few things got misconstrued..

 

When I mentioned NO sex ..

I was referencing the first two months ONLY...

Yes.. sex is greater than great!! Thank God.. that 's not an issue..

 

When I mentioned we don't discuss things...

I was referencing WHEN we are OUT ON DATES ONLY

... those are our FUN times.. At home is when we DO talk... and discuss things..

 

Originally posted by moimeme

You are besotted with this guy to the extent that you have idealized him - perhaps because your own romantic life thus far has been so disappointing that by comparison he looks like heaven. You've all but buried yourself in this guy.

ProbablyTHIS is truth and possibly carries merit for me to consider.. I am so very very in love with this guy he DOES walk on water.. And maybe it IS because I've seen HELL and that he DOES look like Heaven by comparison.... I'm 48 y/o... NO teen here... but I look 30-something because I'm in better physical condition in body and tone than your average 17 y/o because I work out.. Thus, I attract in masses, either the suave playboy very young guys OR or the very old guys that think they can buy me.. literally.. I date none from these groups.. Leaving, the 40-50 somethings that generally don't come near me.. I think I scare them off... or they just don't know my age.. but if and when they do, I'm just not attracted to them remotely OR they're they're PIGS LIARS and CHEATS.. That's my experience in a nutshell with men.. My guy is almost 2 yrs. older than myself.. he's respectful, loving and as sweet as PIE!!!!... YES, I'm so very in love w/my NY liutenant.. And he's so very in love with me.. We both believe this is a MIRACLE in BOTH of our lives.. to feel this.. to have this.. to want this forever. We are both so very extremely attracted to each other physically.. Our goals and dreams and views in life are 100%.... He is NOT dictating.. at all.. I promise you. Though, he can have ANYTHING he wants to set his soul on fire.. YES, he's a complete sweetheart and the ONLY problem is his level of sensitivity... that I am so very very hopeful can be repaired... And I truly don't wan't a train wreck to hit HIM or MYSELF.. nor do I want to demand anything from this sweet soul...

[befuddled11]

This surely isn't a judgment at all, please know that...but I just wanted to comment on a kind of pattern I notice with the content of your posts here. Here's a quote of yours, as an example:

 

"Yes he may be extremely busy.. but what about his knowing via earlier phone messages and emails (earlier receipted by him) that I do NEED him.. that I’m in sheer panic.. and he STILL stays on line over an hour.. STILL shuts off all phones… STILL doesn’t respond to my troubled world.. and goes peacefully to bed.. to work.. etc."

 

You keep making mention of desperately needing him, of you leaving messages because you're in "sheer panic" and things along those lines. If you don't mind me asking, what are all of these sources of stress and panic for you? Why is your life so chaotic?

 

I almost get the sense that maybe you're a very dramatic-type person....and you often have some type of drama going on...where you very much "need" him to help you through it. Now of course, part of being in a relationship is being there for one another....but things can become very unbalanced when one person in the relationship is constantly in a state of panic, they feel their life is crashing down around them and they so consistently and so badly "need" the other person to help save them from whatever source of panic or stress that's taking place at that moment. Nobody wants to be someone's savior..that's a daunting responsibility, and not a very realistic one.

 

Maybe your guy avoids you or blocks you out because he just can't deal with your "need" of him so much? Could that be the case?

 

I'll tell you something......men are turned off by constant drama. They generally like to be with a woman who's independent and can function well on her own...who doesn't "need him" to cope with life.

 

Now I'm not saying his blocking you and blowing you off is "right" or acceptable, Im just trying to point out that maybe he distances himself from you because he becomes turned off with your neediness or clingyness? Could this be the case?

[DancesWithWolves]

Hello again,

 

Because of my last thread being so long, I'll try to make this short.

 

1) Officers have to take calls all the time. Could it be the fact that he's too burned out and stressed out that he's ignoring all calls? I used to work retail and I had to answer phonecalls all the time. After I got home, I would just refuse to take anymore phonecalls because it would be too much stressing.

 

2) How would you rate his mental state of mind? Meaning, do you sense any depression or stress or anything? I think of it this way... If I'm not happy with myself, then I can't make anyone else happy either.

 

3) He sounds like a really good guy after hearing about him. I wouldn't throw away the love simply because you guys have some issues of miscommunications.

 

4) Do you ever consider going on a vacation? I couldn't stop thinking about my woman after the first week while I was visiting some relatives in a different state. It was the same for my woman as well. If you really wanna know if this man misses you or not, then try going away for awhile to see how he reacts to it Breakups are just too risky for me to give out as an advice.

 

5) Do you ever consider going on a vacation with this man? I would go on a vacation and enjoy and relax and try to work out some of the problems

 

I hope I wasn't repeating anyone else's point of views. If I did, then please accept my apologies.

 

This guy means the world to you. Be sure to sniff out more details in order to be sure

[aroseInLove]

Originally posted by DancesWithWolves

1) Officers have to take calls all the time. Could it be the fact that he's too burned out and stressed out that he's ignoring all calls?

Originally posted by befuddled11

Maybe your guy avoids you or blocks you out because he just can't deal with your "need" of him so much? Could that be the case?

I asked him last night about 'drama' and 'my needs'..

I said, "I bet after your crazy nights the last thing you want to do is hear about my drama... my needs.. well you know, things that come up in my world"

 

He says.. Drama??? You? I wouldn't call it drama.. Do you mean that your over-dramatic ... I never thought that once... and I always want to help you through anything.. "

 

I said.. "Well then why is it that sometimes you don't return my calls at night.."

He said, "Sometimes I get home 2:00 am and I don't even listen to my messages.. I just need to relax.. next thing I know it's the morning..... "

 

Originally posted by DancesWithWolves

2) How would you rate his mental state of mind? Meaning, do you sense any depression or stress or anything?

With all he's been through... people dying in his arms.. his pulling knives out of people.. so many attempts on his life and he wins hands-down every time and goes back for more.. .. it's amazing he IS so well-adjusted..

 

Originally posted by DancesWithWolves

3) He sounds like a really good guy after hearing about him. I wouldn't throw away the love simply because you guys have some issues of miscommunications.

I said... "Having this heightened degree of emotion ... I would devastate if you walked away ...hurt me... "

He said, "Rose, someone would have to put a gun to my head to leave you or hurt you and I still wouldn't do it.."

 

Originally posted by moimeme

You are besotted with this guy to the extent that you have idealized him - perhaps because your own romantic life thus far has been so disappointing that by comparison he looks like heaven. You've all but buried yourself in this guy.

I said to him, "My friend thinks I'm so besotted with you that I'm idealizing you.. and said that I've done all but buried myself in this guy... Is that a turn-off to you?"

He said, "Nooooooooooooo.... Nooooooooooooo.... Nooooooooooooo.... not a turn-off in any way.. Listen, I love how you love me.. And I love you the same way back... Who is this friend.. sounds like a counselor.. sometimes they analyze without understanding the whole picture... People don't generally understand what we have...."

 

Originally posted by DancesWithWolves

(4)If you really wanna know if this man misses you or not, then try going away for awhile to see how he reacts to it Breakups are just too risky for me to give out as an advice.

Well.. his living in NY , and me in CT... we already DO have that 'missing' thing happening more often than not... and as for breaking up with this beautiful soul... I'd rather die than return to a world without HIM in it....

 

Originally posted by DancesWithWolves

5) Do you ever consider going on a vacation with this man? I would go on a vacation and enjoy and relax and try to work out some of the problems

That's our whole problem... no time... He retires soon... Then he's MINE!!! Well, I hope.. THIS gets me back to the 'm' word question... especially with you being a guy.. pls. help me with this piece...

 

He says he wants me for the rest of his life ...He says ..'When we're married, you'll be on my health insurance... etc. etc.. ...... '.. but he ..never.. says ..when.. that 'when' will occur.. ..yet he's bidding on properties NOW.. and he wants me moving with him to another state.. the move is coming closer and closer as is his retirement.. ..I can't and won't bring myself to bring 'marriage' up.. IF he wants to marry me, he's going to initiate it, not me.. for sure or I'd feel robbed.... Though I'm praying he WILL ask me before the move.. ....how do I hint.. or tell him.. ..pressure-free...'m'-word free...'commitment '-word free that I need a commitment/proposal/wedding ring before I sell my house and move in that new property with him... Keep in mind.. he wants nothing from MY assets.. He just says if he were me, he'd sell this house and bank it for ME.. says..IF I keep the property to rent it out.. I'd be on a plane every time something goes wrong.. and believe me, I KNOW he is a good guy.. that's why I am so very very veryyyyyyyyyyyyyy in love with him... and YES I DO idealize him.. he's become my WORLD..my MIRACLE... and yes.. after a life of HELL.. he's that much MORE appreciated... and valued.. for certain!

[DPW]

IT ALMOST SOUNDS TO ME LIKE HE IS BLOCKING YOU WHEN SOMEONE ELSE IS AROUND. OFF THE PHONE AND COMPUTER. ARE YOU SURE THIS GUY ISN'T MARRIED ARE SEEING SOMEONE ELSE? I DON'T THINK HE WOULD BLOCK YOU IN A NORMAL RELATIONSHIP.

[moimeme]

I can't and won't bring myself to bring 'marriage' up.. IF he wants to marry me, he's going to initiate it, not me.. for sure or I'd feel robbed

 

He has brought it up. Umpteen times, according to you. So next time he says 'when we're married' ask him 'and when do you think that will be?' I must reiterate that you should feel free to discuss anything, even with a saint.

[aroseInLove]

Originally posted by DPW

IT ALMOST SOUNDS TO ME LIKE HE IS BLOCKING YOU WHEN SOMEONE ELSE IS AROUND. OFF THE PHONE AND COMPUTER. ARE YOU SURE THIS GUY ISN'T MARRIED ARE SEEING SOMEONE ELSE? I DON'T THINK HE WOULD BLOCK YOU IN A NORMAL RELATIONSHIP.

I admit the thought IS scary to me, DPW.. Even though I trust him with my life.. my human side of me does carry that fear when I repeatedly can't get through to him....

 

But, would you still think this way if I told you he flew his Mom up here early on in the relationship just to meet me? He was so excited for us to meet... Her and I have become very close.. His Mom calls me from Georgia (I'm in CT) ... or I call her once or twice a week ..and they are generally one-hour conversations.. She likes me a lot and we talk about his move.. his hours.. but we don't just talk about her son.. and, in just general conversation, she 'between the lines' so to speak, confirms not only his lifestyle, but also things he says to me... even things that might seem questionable .. She confirms it right to the detail without realizing it.. Now, she's an 83 y/o extremely proper Southern Belle.. and I don't think she'd have it in her to play a game with me here.. Beyond my trust in him that I do have, this confirms to me that there can't be ANY significant female in his world.

 

As for someone else.. like dates he might possibly have.. or maybe his fooling around online... that could possibly be a different story... as his Mom IS in Georgia, and she could be fooled as well.. I don't think his character is that of a cheat.. Fear and all, I am certain, comes from my insecurities .. from my hellish past.. from that subconscious, non-intentional possible greed that MAY POSSIBLY EXIST in myself.. as in my being needy when I shouldn't be. Keep in mind, I am extremely INdependent.. Being divorced for 24-years I put myself thru college and raised 2 special-needs girls with NO child support.. plus kept them both in college-prep special needs catering-type schools.. and also through college and grad school.. So NO, I'm not NEEDY in general.. But for some reason, this man that literally blows me away... has created this need in me that I've never ever had in my life.

 

I don't know if I mentioned this in any earlier posts but he is aware of the fact that I know I'm blocked.... it's open knowledge.. it never was a secret... just an ugly fact.

 

In truth, even for my saint.. my miracle.. this absolute love of my life.. it is offensive to my soul to be blocked by him on IM... Especially in that ..with AOL, you can block all but one or several exceptions via a list just as easily as blocking several ..or blocking out the world.. . I often wonder why he doesn't put even just me in that exception list.. especially in knowing we have had scenarios where he couldn't be reached... and an IM would've gotten through.... and vice versa, I might add.. as there have been times I've been online and he couldn't reach me by phone as well... He could hop online... unblock me.. just to IM me once... but he doesn't..

 

STILL, IM blocking is HIS choice to make.. certainly not mine.. I wouldn't want to force that on him.. in fact, I wouldn't force anything on him nor would I want to be on that exception list just because I asked to be on it.. And.. though it hurts.. I can accept living with being blocked.. ..

 

Originally posted by moimeme

I can't and won't bring myself to bring 'marriage' up.. IF he wants to marry me, he's going to initiate it, not me.. for sure or I'd feel robbed

He has brought it up. Umpteen times, according to you. So next time he says 'when we're married' ask him 'and when do you think that will be?'

YES, EARLIER on... much earlier on, he brought it up umpteen times.. But he hasn't brought it up in the past four+ months.. I will remember YOU, moimeme, for that brain processing ..as IT is real good idea.. and might never have crossed my mind.. esp. since my focus is hoping this marriage-question comes from him.. not me... or as a result of my asking about it..

 

With news that his retirement is coming closer, he's bidding on properties now.. This is why I'm getting nervous it just might not happen as soon as I'd like.. as in before the move.. as opposed to somewhere later on down the line....

 

The reason I'm thinking the latter might be the case is something fairly noteworthy happened.. I have a hyphenated last name... I held on to my (birth name)-(married name) as my girls begged me to do this in their wanting the three of us to share the same last name... Now that my girls are almost 23 and 27.. and I've been divorced near 24 years it IS due time I remove the ex's part of the hyphenated name... so ...as a hint.. that unfortunately failed.. I said to my man, "I bet you don't want my ex's name on our mail box, huh honey?" He says, "No, I do not!!!! You are removing his name, aren't you?" Well, ...crushed again... by my saint.. I guess saints are also human... and, just maybe he's holding out to surprise me.. I just truly don't know.

 

Also.. just an FYI.. My daughters (though migrated from college to independently living in different states from me now) do NOT want me moving 6 states away with him without a wedding ring... They say they see it all the time.. how people .. intend to marry... and then one or the other.. or both.. just get 'too comfortable' in that mode.. and that my saint might also fit that mold.. and be so very content that he may never ask... once I'm there.

 

Originally posted by moimeme

I must reiterate that you should feel free to discuss anything, even with a saint.

I truly DO feel free to discuss ANYthing on earth with my saint... If you can understand... I am 48 years old and in all my life, so help me God it is truth I never had ANY romance .. not ONCE in my entire life.. This saint ...who puts me in complete awe and enriches my life with being in my world is truly romantic... What a gift for ME... who never once remotely fathomed this would be in the cards for me. So, moimeme, though I DO understand what your message relays.. can you see now how the idea of a proposal coming from his sweet soul would be monumental to me? ... It would be monumental to say the least. See, if I were to bring it up.. in my eyes, I blow that possible moment that I NEVER believed would happen in my lifetime. Can you understand this reasoning? If I could only figure this out... I'd be set....

[moimeme]

See, if I were to bring it up.. in my eyes, I blow that possible moment that I NEVER believed would happen in my lifetime. Can you understand this reasoning?

 

Well, actually, no. He has already mentioned marriage. I'm not suggesting you propose, merely that you discuss whether or not you will be getting married ever. I think you're beyond the stage of life where you need to be wrapped up in cloudy dreams and on to the stage where pragmatism has some place. Frankly, rose, I'm hearing way too much romance novel stuff here. I'm not hearing mature, deep, companionate love but teenage infatuation. Sorry to be a downer, but I'd say the same to you if you were my best friend.

[aroseInLove]

Originally posted by moimeme He has already mentioned marriage. I'm not suggesting you propose, merely that you discuss whether or not you will be getting married ever. I think you're beyond the stage of life where you need to be wrapped up in cloudy dreams and on to the stage where pragmatism has some place. Frankly, rose, I'm hearing way too much romance novel stuff here. I'm not hearing mature, deep, companionate love but teenage infatuation. Sorry to be a downer, but I'd say the same to you if you were my best friend.

 

Moimeme, sometimes I DO feel it's silly as well... and I, too, question myself on cloudy dreams ..romance novel stuff... teenage infatuation... pragmatism...

Even if I am independent and mature, I just never had this in my life and truly want it.. be maybe I DO have to step back here... adjust my thinking...

 

I already know my world with him is that of a dreamer... answers from people like yourself is what is helping me step back and re-evaluate... my reasoning for mentioning this in my posts to begin with... I'm looking for perspectives like yours...

 

I'm hoping to hear from more guys... to help me see this from HIS world.. If I can understand HIM.. it might make my dealing with this easier to speak of and live with thereafter... Thanks, Moimeme

 

Rose

[FolderWife]

My feeling on this is, if he's not there for you NOW, then he'll be even WORSE if you marry or live with him. I wouldn't say he's cheating, I'd say he's not as serious as you are about this relationship. Also, in my experience with men who stop calling, or don't return calls promptly, they are not interested. If he doesn't return your call promptly, then I'd not call him back when he finally does call you. I wouldn't return his call for a couple of days either. In my experience, men tend to take you for granted if you are too available.

 

By the time I met my husband, I'd had it with guys who lose interest and don't call on time. I'd tell my now husband to call at 9p.m., and if he didn't, I'd turn the phone off, and go to sleep. Eventually due to his job and it's rediculous hours, I cought on that if he didn't call on time, he fell asleep. I'd call and let the phone ring 2 times, and if he didn't call back immediately, then he didn't get to talk to me that night. He'd usually wake up about half an hour to an hour later and call, but he got the answering machine, because quite frankly, if I wasn't important enough to stay awake for, then he wasn't important enough to talk to!

 

It's not playing games, it's demanding respect. Don't let any man take you for granted. Maybe if he can't talk to you when it's convenient for HIM, then he'll start talking when YOU call. If you wait around for a man to call, and worry and wool over it, then he's going to take you for granted.

 

Even now, when my husband starts taking me for granted, then I stop being taken for granted. I stop cleaning, and I don't call when I'm going to be late, and I don't worry about saving money, and I don't fall all over myself to make him happy...then he straightens up, and turns into a good husband.

 

It sounds like he's not interested in you any more, but if you'd back off, he probably would spark up an interest in you again.

[aroseInLove]

Originally posted by Monday

It's not playing games, it's demanding respect. ...

 

... Maybe if he can't talk to you when it's convenient for HIM, then he'll start talking when YOU call. If you wait around for a man to call, and worry and wool over it, then he's going to take you for granted. ...

 

...It sounds like he's not interested in you any more, but if you'd back off, he probably would spark up an interest in you again.

 

Well... he did it again... and it's worse.. and why am I surprised? Why am I so bummed... when I KNOW I must not be important enough to stay awake for... no matter what the issue is...

 

In the middle of night.. the night before last .. he calls me and we were talking about my taking/not taking a job contract that would not allow me to follow him to his move...

 

He nonchalantly hit me with what I see as life-altering news that he may postpone his retirement/the move for 16 mos due to a pay increase he wants to result in his pension...

 

Kind of left me in awe... Not only does this affect my packing up my house... not only does this mean our 'hardly seeing each other' is going to roll into another 16 mos. along with this type of 'crap' contact... ... but, WORSE, his news affect s me financially; I took a hit as this 'news' has cost me long-term contracts in CT that I should have taken... It NOW also sets my job contract search OFF-kilter as I am in-between contracts and have to start at ground zero...

 

Yesterday I was resubmitting my availability for contracts, and I realized I should clarify locations.. I hoped to reach him to see if I should just limit myself to CT or somewhere closer to where he is in NY ..as we do have 150+ miles between us..

 

I left him phone message and and email msg. ... not only mentioning I needed to go over location searches with him before I turn in these submissions... quite important, no? ... but also mentioned I had another incident at the gym ...said it was handled officially but just wanted to share... also mentioned that I was bummed that the light at the end of our tunnell (of this crap hardly seeing each other) seems to have burnt out as we roll into another 15-16 mos. of no-time for him and I ... .. that his voice would be a true 'gift'.... whenever he got home... Well, so much for any gift.. even though he found time to go online.. (rec'd receipt on that email msg at 1:30) he still didn't call at all last night... He's been known to call me when he gets hom even as late at 4:30 am.. So for him to open that email at 1:30.. it seems a matter of pure choice.. not exhaust.. Nor did he call all through the day today and he goes in to work at 3:00 pm...

 

I go to extremes to make my guy happy... just love to make his world a better place so he can love life... I always put him absolute first in making myself available..... even down to last second changing directions on demand w/plans.. etc... and here he has countless times literally blown me off and canceled dates for simple tasks on his list.. embarrassing to say this but even for dumb things like watering the flowers in spring.. to rid his yard of leaves in the fall.. laundry.. errands.. .. This is my reality ..and this our norm... Our light at the end of the tunnel just BLEW OUT.. I am so very bummed that I now have 15-16 more months of exactly 'this'...

 

So, tonight.. he'll call and be his sweet loving self.. I guarantee he'll promise the moon.. You know what? I wish that moon was real... so verrrrrrrrrrry bummed... so very scared to DEATH!!!! Still, I guess it's due time to back off...

[sienna]

Well he is not satisfying you emotionally is he.........dont sell your house,wait a while his excuses are telling you something arent they? Just play it out for a while and see.Good Luck .

[aroseInLove]

Originally posted by sienna

Well he is not satisfying you emotionally is he.........dont sell your house,wait a while his excuses are telling you something arent they? Just play it out for a while and see.Good Luck .

 

 

No.. I know there is so much love.. and he is so very sweet and kind in words.. but his busy life seems to swallow him up resulting him to be so inconsiderate in actions with me.... He says what we have is magical... why would he take the chance to lose it...

[moimeme]

and he is so very sweet and kind in words.. but his busy life seems to swallow him up resulting him to be so inconsiderate in actions with me

 

Rose, words are cheap. It's deeds that count. Quit building your life on spec. Do not sell your house, turn down contracts, or in any other way give up anything else in your life until/unless you have definitive plans made with him. You are too carried away! You'll get tired of me saying it, but you have to come down to earth. Yeah, I know, you always wanted to be the heroine of a Harlequin yadda yadda - BUT life is not a novel and it comes with nasty features like seemingly-ideal men who turn out to be duds after all. If you don't start being a little realistic about the 'saint', you are going to crash hard enough to leave a crater and burn like the sun. You've invested too much of you into him and you've not gotten the same back.

[aroseInLove]

Do I shut off my ringer tonight? I'm so very crushed... pls. help.

[moimeme]

You can't fix this by ignoring him. You need to have a frank discussion. By all means talk to him and ask him what's going on. I'll wager he'll sound puzzled that you're upset. Then ask him to clarify what he wants of life and of you. Or arrange a meeting where you can discuss this. You need to know where you stand with this guy.

[aroseInLove]

This so awful... feels like he's gone... feel like I'm in crisis.. it's now 2 days.. no calls... no picking up the phone.. no response to email msgs. Pls. help..

[meanon]

Rose, it sounds like you have invested all your expectations of happiness in this guy before you know for sure that it is safe to do so - that happens when we fall in love I know. Love means different things to different people though. Whether your relationship continues or not, your current way of dealing with it - demanding contact he will not give, is not working. You need to gain a degree of emotional independence for your own sake and for any future relationship with him to stand a chance.

 

Assuming you get over this particular crisis, I think you should think about what your expectations are for a relationship and how far you can be happy compromising them to be with a man you love so much. There are many who will say you should look for someone who can better satisfy your emotional needs, is more reliable and is prepared to make a commitment to marry. There are no right or wrong answers here - it's about what will make you happy, what you can live with.

 

I don't know how this man feels about you but it does sound to me as though he is sending you a clear message that he does not want a relationship of what he may perceive as dependence. I doubt that this man will ever give you the feeling of security or commitment that you crave so the choice is simple. You either seek to resolve your issues yourself, gain a degree of independence, relieve the pressure so that the relationship has room to grow to it's full potential or you conclude that, much though you love him, you want different things out of a relationship and so you end it. I advise against ending it to see if he comes around to your way of thinking - that's handing over control of your happiness to him and I think you need to stop doing that.

 

Generally the best way of communicating expectations in a relationship (things you have to have rather than things you can compromise on) is to do it explicitly up front. Then you should avoid discussing them all the time as this just leads to continual nagging and hands over control of your happiness to someone else - how you feel day to day depends entirely on what they do. If someone consistently fails to deliver on what they know are your fundamental expectations then you should leave. If you know you are able to talk to him daily, for example, you may not react so badly when he fails to respond when you need him. Joint decision making on things like timing of a house move would seem fairly basic as well.

 

Rose, I hope that what has happened is just that you have had a bad spell of him failing to give you what you want, him feeling that he's not measuring up. This may be reason enough for him to stop contacting you for a while. You should use the time to decide what you want. You can't have your ideal relationship with him - how much do you want to or are you able to give up to be with him? Work on being more self sufficient, it will stand you in good stead whatever happens next in your life. Are there people who can help you with this (friends, family?). If not do post again about the specifics or see a therapist.

 

Good luck.

[aroseInLove]

I'm in crisis to say the least... this online thing with my 'saint' was killing me... the blocking wasn't so bad.. but his not answering the AOL messages he'd receive while I knew he was online would rip my heart out... last night happened afain.. somehow.. some force within me JUST led me to look to an online dating service.. and the first one I went into.. OMG.. there he was.. looking for love.. was last logged in was April 6th 2004.. Pls. help me through this... anyone.. I need help...