Author NickFeek Posted August 16, 2011 Author Posted August 16, 2011 so - yes, 25 years of crap - is what you call this. once i know what the crap is - i don't ALLOW that crap anymore... cuz i know THAT crap doesn't work for me - so i stop DOING the crap i don't like - knowing it doesn't make me happy. THAT alone is MY new boundary - when i EXPECT change = no longer being willing to DO what i know doesn't work for me. i let go of ALL the things I know don't work! i DO NOT WADE THROUGH IT! i already have evidence it doesn't work! i start DOING anything i haven't done before - knowing it will bring about change. NEVER do i go back to any of my old behaviors - because i KNOW they don't work for me! you misread my words at times. i never said disattach - i said state to her you love her - then do your best - that includes taking care of YOURSELF... then KNOWING you are in a good place, you AFFECT others in a healthy way with every interaction and every word you speak. that includes loving yourself = then offering your healthy self to others. there is nothing "detached" about the way i approach life... except to allow others their own room for what happy looks like for them. it's a difficult concept to relay to you by typing... "Crap" meaning "stuff" - no judgment meant there. The point is I just don't get how you think a professional could render judgment on what two people should do without knowing their history. We're not talking about emergency surgery here, we're talking about a process that ONLY has a chance of working if it's handled properly. I admire how you're able to just decide not to do what doesn't work for you. But tell me, have you ever been so close to someone - someone you love & want to be with - that you at times lose sight of what is bad & what isn't? Have you ever had the best intention to eliminate the bad from your life but at times you falter & don't quite reach the ideal? All this empowerment stance is healthy & great to use as a guideline to live by, but in the messy real world it's achieved only sporadically. And to build up to a place where I/we can be that way after so many years of messing up is NOT just a matter of DECIDING. It has to be worked at. I agree I probably read the detachment idea wrong. I understand the value of being healthy enough in yourself to not allow another person's wild ride to make you ill. Case in point: Yesterday was our 19th wedding anniversary. It was also our youngest's 3rd birthday. I expected the day to go one of two ways: A positive step via one or both of us making loving gestures that reinforce what we're working on. OR Focus primarily on Will & just get through the day, because milestones after a cheating/lying episode can be painful for the person cheated on. It went the second way, yet I still had a good day & so did the kids. I did not let my wife's sadness bring me down. I DID make sure she knew I was there for her in whatever way she needed me, but I ALSO made sure to enjoy the day as much as possible. I think I intellectually get what you're saying, but emotionally it's hard to maintain that idea of being WITH someone but not being AFFECTED by their moods/states/etc.
2sunny Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 "Crap" meaning "stuff" - no judgment meant there. The point is I just don't get how you think a professional could render judgment on what two people should do without knowing their history. We're not talking about emergency surgery here, we're talking about a process that ONLY has a chance of working if it's handled properly. I admire how you're able to just decide not to do what doesn't work for you. But tell me, have you ever been so close to someone - someone you love & want to be with - that you at times lose sight of what is bad & what isn't? Have you ever had the best intention to eliminate the bad from your life but at times you falter & don't quite reach the ideal? All this empowerment stance is healthy & great to use as a guideline to live by, but in the messy real world it's achieved only sporadically. And to build up to a place where I/we can be that way after so many years of messing up is NOT just a matter of DECIDING. It has to be worked at. I agree I probably read the detachment idea wrong. I understand the value of being healthy enough in yourself to not allow another person's wild ride to make you ill. Case in point: Yesterday was our 19th wedding anniversary. It was also our youngest's 3rd birthday. I expected the day to go one of two ways: A positive step via one or both of us making loving gestures that reinforce what we're working on. OR Focus primarily on Will & just get through the day, because milestones after a cheating/lying episode can be painful for the person cheated on. It went the second way, yet I still had a good day & so did the kids. I did not let my wife's sadness bring me down. I DID make sure she knew I was there for her in whatever way she needed me, but I ALSO made sure to enjoy the day as much as possible. I think I intellectually get what you're saying, but emotionally it's hard to maintain that idea of being WITH someone but not being AFFECTED by their moods/states/etc. yes - i know what it's like to be completely entangled in someone else's negativity and abuse to the point of near death. back then - i nearly chose to die instead of DO the work I needed to DO to get to a healthy place - in order to live again. i stay away from the negativity now - it no longer "rules" my life or my thoughts/actions. and i understand the counselor wanting to get background... but change can begin without getting through ALL of the history. IMPLEMENTING CHANGE is best from the start - since we know the past hasn't worked. happy anniversary! glad you were happy!
Author NickFeek Posted August 16, 2011 Author Posted August 16, 2011 yes - i know what it's like to be completely entangled in someone else's negativity and abuse to the point of near death. back then - i nearly chose to die instead of DO the work I needed to DO to get to a healthy place - in order to live again. i stay away from the negativity now - it no longer "rules" my life or my thoughts/actions. and i understand the counselor wanting to get background... but change can begin without getting through ALL of the history. IMPLEMENTING CHANGE is best from the start - since we know the past hasn't worked. happy anniversary! glad you were happy! You must have really worked to get where you are, and again I really admire that. I agree change can begin before all that, and I believe it has. We need to do a lot of improving, but the one thing I really want to achieve right now is a level of CONSISTENCY in our changes. I feel the longer a pattern persists, the more likely it is to become habit. Thanks! Honestly it was nice to have my son's birthday to celebrate - something positive & special to go to amidst the strife.
2sunny Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 sometimes i like to forget what my old life used to look like... old life: 2 million dollar home many expensive cars ego everywhere high paying jobs kids constant negative words and behavior by my husband stress worry friends family unhappy heart pretending lies to myself obligation to stay married no matter what honoring everyone else except me - because making others happy was so important new life: making me happy - and offering my happy self to others divorced a SOLID relationship with my kids healthy relationship with my family/friends no pretending rent a cute, small house by the beach people in my life that are authentic... when they are sad you know it - when they are happy you know that too. menial job - and SO FUN! plenty of time to LIVE and PLAY basic car - i may downsize (upsize) to a bike! i DO what makes ME happy... it seems to attract other healthy spirits into my life content secure even without much money DOING things that make me happy! change is good - i continue to weed my garden - of the things/people that don't bring beauty and joy to daily living. so - you see, Nick - you may be thinking i'm just sitting here typing a whole ton of $hitty ideas to you without knowing how to change things myself. i've literally changed EVERYTHING about my old life - after understanding how unhappy my old life made me - i began to implement change! if it worked, i kept that new idea and embraced it - if it didn't, i never tried that one again... but started trying and doing other things to see what happy (a NEW happy) might look like for ME! i'm not telling you what exactly THAT CHANGE should/could entail for you - i'm just trying to get you to DO something to bring changes into your life to see what works for you - you two... i held onto almost none of my old life = i knew it wasn't happy for me. and yes, at the time it was a bit scary... until i realized the only thing holding me back from being happy was my own fear of change = and that change is exactly what brought the happiness! there is a reason i am a big fan of change.
Author NickFeek Posted August 16, 2011 Author Posted August 16, 2011 That's a pretty amazing transition, and I can see why you're such a proponent of change. You so clearly have your priorities straight & that's very encouraging. As far as I/we have come with this process, I still think of it as an open-ended story. I keep that in mind because it prevents me from getting into a mindset of just accepting what is, instead of making sure things will change for the better.
2sunny Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 That's a pretty amazing transition, and I can see why you're such a proponent of change. You so clearly have your priorities straight & that's very encouraging. As far as I/we have come with this process, I still think of it as an open-ended story. I keep that in mind because it prevents me from getting into a mindset of just accepting what is, instead of making sure things will change for the better. since i know what i "had" or "did' wasn't making life manageable or happy - i started making sure i wasn't doing those things the same anymore. So you relinquished your share of the marital assets when you got divorced??? Wow amazing, you are truly a person of high principle. i did let go of half my prior life - the material things anyway... and what i walked away with - and didn't need any longer - i started giving away to people who needed them (it) more than me. i have very few material things now (what i DO have, i LOVE, as i have kept those things for good reason!) - only what i need and use on a daily basis...if i'm not using it, someone else should/could be making use of it. those "things" are not what make me happy. staying true to myself and sharing my authentic self with others is what makes me happy.
trippi1432 Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) Thank you Victoria for that advert...<rolls eyes> So, 2Sunny...you were able to walk away from a million dollar lifestyle...I would be happy too with the pressure that came from that. My exH walked away from a middle income lifestyle and called it materialistic while he mounted up credit card debt upon debt..I sit here paying for his crap for 8 more years. He lives the lifestyle you live now...free from any obligations...so...does that give him the right to live life to make himself happy by doing what he wants while other's pay his price? I see nothing wrong with Nick and his wife working to make their lives inclusive of each other..to find happiness within themselves as well as with each other. It is up to them to set their own pace. If Nick wanted to shirk life and run to a deserted island..well, then I guess he would. What has worked for you is great..wonderful...and if that fulfills you...good. For a plethora of pages here, it seems that Nick is trying to find a way to be emotionally closer with his wife....to get her to open up to him...you preach a life of being happy with yourself...and yes..we all should be, but he doesn't live in your world of being happy alone..he WANTS to be happy with his wife that he loves. So...for plus 80 pages now..can you tell him how without him having to find a way to be happy under a bridge somewhere by himself? Edited August 18, 2011 by trippi1432
2sunny Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 can you tell him how without him having to find a way to be happy under a bridge somewhere by himself? that really is up to Nick. but for Nick to be happy within himself and offer that to her - could bring change. she may never change - sigh - so Nick wanting HIS happiness to be dependent UPON her isn't going to make Nick happy. btw - i'm not an isolated person - i am happy on my own and also happy with who i spend my time with... when i'm with another person, it's a bonus for me. and living under a bridge? ahahaha, i look at the beach all day long... don't make assumptions about what my life is or isn't - i have very little now (i am not a homeowner and don't intend to be one)... make little money and spend even less. it's not about the money or things! if Nick figures out what happy looks like for him - then is able to determine whether or not his wife wants to - or intends to participate - he can still be happy whether she does or she doesn't. he needs to find what works for him. for me... and for a while - i spent some time determining what DIDN'T work in order to try new ways that allowed me to understand what DID work for ME. once i got to a place that made me feel totally happy... i just knew it was right for me by the way i felt at peace. a peace that is not known by being at the mercy of anyone else... this is for my happiness... then i offer my happy self to others when i'm with them.
trippi1432 Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 btw - i'm not an isolated person - i am happy on my own and also happy with who i spend my time with... when i'm with another person, it's a bonus for me. and living under a bridge? ahahaha, i look at the beach all day long... don't make assumptions about what my life is or isn't - i have very little now (i am not a homeowner and don't intend to be one)... make little money and spend even less. it's not about the money or things! if Nick figures out what happy looks like for him - then is able to determine whether or not his wife wants to - or intends to participate - he can still be happy whether she does or she doesn't. he needs to find what works for him. for me... and for a while - i spent some time determining what DIDN'T work in order to try new ways that allowed me to understand what DID work for ME. once i got to a place that made me feel totally happy... i just knew it was right for me by the way i felt at peace. a peace that is not known by being at the mercy of anyone else... this is for my happiness... then i offer my happy self to others when i'm with them. 2Sunny - I was not assuming anything about your life...your life is yours and it works for you...we all deal with the cards we are dealt...but while giving up all material things works for you, it is not the easy answer for everyone. Essentially, Nick knew what made him happy when he came on this site...when he was in his affair fog, a temporary fix for something that was missing. But I think that most people figure out that just physical sex does not replace genuine caring, deep love for another person, emotional closeness and knowing that two people can have a deep-set responsibility for each other. From what I have been reading and interpreting...I've felt that this is what Nick really wants from his marriage...for the TWO of them. So...in that, how can we support him??
2sunny Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 i feel i have made attempts to offer suggestions that could bring change by doing things differently. HE does have choices - in how HE participates. since we now know that most of what he wants for HER to change isn't very realistic... i understand that this is up to Nick - to change Nick. he can HOPE that his wife will also change... we can hope and pray on that one! we know he can't change or control HER... however - i do know that when I change... it also affects others... it affects what they do or don't do... with every action/inaction - comes a reaction.
Author NickFeek Posted August 22, 2011 Author Posted August 22, 2011 Trippi & 2sunny, I appreciate all the time & thought BOTH of you have given to my 80+ pages, through all the confusion & contradictions & frustrations. I value all of it, whether I agree or not. I'm glad to have your perspectives (and those of soserious, lovingwhatis, etc. - so many generous people). I do see the value in finding what's happy for me without reliance on others. I also see the value in allowing another so deeply into you that they become a part of you, for better or worse. I'm smack in the middle of both ideas right now, struggling mightily to figure out how to work WITH my wife and be MORE DEEPLY connected to her, without being subsumed by her issues & emotional rides. It's not easy, consider our history, and especially considering my family history - i.e. what I learned from my parents was not super healthy in the interpersonal department - to say the least! But all in all I feel as though I AND WE are getting there.
2sunny Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 good to hear there is progress Nick - keep us updated and let us know if you need any support!
2sunny Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 any changes happening that you are allowed to tell us about?
Author NickFeek Posted September 1, 2011 Author Posted September 1, 2011 any changes happening that you are allowed to tell us about? That's very well put, and thanks for checking in. We were on vacation last week. It's a place we've gone to every year since '86. Lots of memories, etc. The kids had a wonderful time. My wife & I hadn't spent that much time together in who knows how long - over a year. We did a whole lot of hashing out of stuff, so it was productive but not all that relaxing. Being there called up a lot of hurt for her - they say the year after a cheating things like anniversaries & annual events can be particularly difficult, and that's exactly how it happened. We finally connected & started to put that to rest by Thursday, and then the town forced us to evacuate a day and a half early due to Irene. Best changes are she is calling & emailing me more often, responding more to my requests, and giving me more non-kid time after work. I wish I could say I felt better about all this, but I've been at a low for a few weeks now, mostly from realizing that there are certain things she's right about that I'm having a hard time accepting. Next counseling session is tomorrow - first one in three weeks.
carson2002 Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) that really is up to Nick. but for Nick to be happy within himself and offer that to her - could bring change. she may never change - sigh - so Nick wanting HIS happiness to be dependent UPON her isn't going to make Nick happy. btw - i'm not an isolated person - i am happy on my own and also happy with who i spend my time with... when i'm with another person, it's a bonus for me. and living under a bridge? ahahaha, i look at the beach all day long... don't make assumptions about what my life is or isn't - i have very little now (i am not a homeowner and don't intend to be one)... make little money and spend even less. it's not about the money or things! if Nick figures out what happy looks like for him - then is able to determine whether or not his wife wants to - or intends to participate - he can still be happy whether she does or she doesn't. he needs to find what works for him. for me... and for a while - i spent some time determining what DIDN'T work in order to try new ways that allowed me to understand what DID work for ME. once i got to a place that made me feel totally happy... i just knew it was right for me by the way i felt at peace. a peace that is not known by being at the mercy of anyone else... this is for my happiness... then i offer my happy self to others when i'm with them. Just out of curiosity Sunny , do you have a significant other in your life? Or do you feel now that you don't need one? I'm just asking because i'm at the stage in my seperation where i'm finally accepting that it's over and need to move on but i don't feel ready to become involved with anyone else and i'm not sure if i ever will at this stage. Just looking for some perspective from someone a lot further down the road. Sorry to hijack your thread Nick. Edited September 1, 2011 by carson2002
Author NickFeek Posted September 1, 2011 Author Posted September 1, 2011 Just out of curiosity Sunny , do you have a significant other in your life? Or do you feel now that you don't need one? I'm just asking because i'm at the stage in my seperation where i'm finally accepting that it's over and need to move on but i don't feel ready to become involved with anyone else and i'm not sure if i ever will at this stage. Just looking for some perspective from someone a lot further down the road. Sorry to hijack your thread Nick. Not at all, Carson. I hope 2sunny can help!
2sunny Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 Just out of curiosity Sunny , do you have a significant other in your life? Or do you feel now that you don't need one? I'm just asking because i'm at the stage in my seperation where i'm finally accepting that it's over and need to move on but i don't feel ready to become involved with anyone else and i'm not sure if i ever will at this stage. Just looking for some perspective from someone a lot further down the road. Sorry to hijack your thread Nick. it's easier if i explain it this way... after my D - i went through a few VERY bad, painful years - deep, dark and scary place for me... then i began to see the light - and did a ton of work to get to a wonderful place that works for ME! so - i am now happy to say... each day that i get to wake up on this earth... i am happy to be alive and happy with ME! and when i have someone with me i figure it's just a bonus. so essentially - i am happy on my own (i KNOW i am never ALONE) - and i am happy when i am with others as well! to clarify further - i will NEVER allow myself to go back to living the way i used to live... it was a life that didn't work for ME... but i really didn't know that until i woke up! it involved a ton of pretending (lies), deflection, gaslighting, betrayal, manipulation and control - then on the backside in order to make things look "pretty" my H would buy me expensive things or book expensive trips in his efforts to cover up his truth with more smoke and mirrors so that i couldn't "see" what reality was through his "chaos" - all in all - it was designed to keep me quiet and "happy (or his idea of what should make me happy) while he lived a life of cheating and dishonesty. i was raised to "be a good little girl!" he stole 23 years of my life with his dishonesty... and i ALLOWED it... i decide everyday what makes ME happy or NOT HAPPY... i never allow someone else to determine that for me anymore - i deserve it with or without a man. a man is a bonus! it's fun this way. i have a voice and i speak MY truth!
2sunny Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 mostly from realizing that there are certain things she's right about that I'm having a hard time accepting. and what exactly are you referring to? this statement is so elusive that i can't determine what your reference may be. be specific... what is she right about and why is her truth causing you such pain?
Author NickFeek Posted September 1, 2011 Author Posted September 1, 2011 and what exactly are you referring to? this statement is so elusive that i can't determine what your reference may be. be specific... what is she right about and why is her truth causing you such pain? Other than the obvious, which is that my cheating & lying was no way to handle our marital issues, we are uncovering the fact that, although I believe myself to be a "modern & enlightened" man, and most often do act that way, there's a strong residual need in me to be the primary breadwinner. And my secondary financial/professional status has messed with my sense of empowerment & self worth MUCH more than I realized. I've been fighting against the reality that she makes three times what I do and has a much more involved job. And while that does not give her license to neglect her husband and kids, it does mean she should be given the respect & leeway she's worked so hard to achieve. Even though I knew all this intellectually, it finally hit me emotionally three weeks ago, and it wasn't until late in our vacation that I finally stopped fighting it & started to integrate it into my picture of reality. It has not been easy, to say the least.
2sunny Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 so you two allow money to set a value or lack of value for you as a person? Nick, no amount of money can determine my self worth, that's absurd... who taught you that? when you die are you going to say - "i wish i'd made more money and worked more? my value is not in the money or things... in fact, i've spent much of the past 3-1/2 years giving away most of what i had - because that does NOT determine what value i hold...
trippi1432 Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 Other than the obvious, which is that my cheating & lying was no way to handle our marital issues, we are uncovering the fact that, although I believe myself to be a "modern & enlightened" man, and most often do act that way, there's a strong residual need in me to be the primary breadwinner. And my secondary financial/professional status has messed with my sense of empowerment & self worth MUCH more than I realized. I've been fighting against the reality that she makes three times what I do and has a much more involved job. And while that does not give her license to neglect her husband and kids, it does mean she should be given the respect & leeway she's worked so hard to achieve. Even though I knew all this intellectually, it finally hit me emotionally three weeks ago, and it wasn't until late in our vacation that I finally stopped fighting it & started to integrate it into my picture of reality. It has not been easy, to say the least. Nick...there is a difference between a primitive need and reality...and yes..."modern and enlightened" is a path that men find themselves in, not their fault nor their wives fault .... whether you believe it or not..it's not a fate that she is as accepting of either....role reversal without balance. It DOES NOT give her license to neglect anything....NO MORE THAN IT WOULD GIVE YOU LICENSE TO DO THE SAME were you in that position. Not shouting...but more for emphasis. Life and love do not matter about who does what...who makes more or who has the harder job..it only matters about how you treat each other and achieve love and respect of one another. It's not about you putting you behind you to put her before you...nor is that on her as well...it's about the man you are outside of your strifes...and the woman she is outside of hers. While you say she deserves that respect..are you really listening to HER? What respect is she wanting...is it really about her profession and what she contributes...or is it about looking in your eyes and seeing her true self, outside of the stresses, reflected back in them...and you in hers? At the end of the day...what she does for a living does not define her..what the two of you have defines you both.
2sunny Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 At the end of the day...what she does for a living does not define her..what the two of you have defines you both. my perspective on this concept is a bit different. Trippi - i value your perspective too - but i'd like to point out my experience with this concept. what one offers into the R matters. if there are TWO people - and each is bringing in a broken self - then how can anyone expect the R to be happy if one is broken and that's what is in the mix? and what IF both people bring their broken self into that mix also? what the two of you have defines you both we are meant to be individuals first - then partners after that. so - ideally, in my experience - IF both people are in that R as healthy people all on their own... and that is what enters the R - then THAT is a great place to start! then two healthy people bringing positive experience and perspective with balance and honesty offer THAT into a R where it can grow so they lift each other up, support each other and appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of the other. ideally, for me, i want to live a happy, healthy and safe life - each day that i'm here! THAT is MY boundary that i set for myself many years ago when i woke up... so i take my happy, healthy and safe self into my R. IF and WHEN it's not - i tighten my boundary so that i can still honor myself and MY boundary. it has been difficult at times, but it does tend to get things back in alignment very quickly when i follow that guideline that works for me. everyone is allowed to decide what that boundary should look like for them as individuals! no one else should decide that for them... but communicating with loved ones with HONESTY what the boundary looks like certainly helps to maintain good balance. someone ELSE will NEVER define who i am. i am who i am - then i take that self into my R. IF i were taking broken self into it... i should expect to get half a R at best... and if both are troubled - i should expect it to look like a total drag. a battle the whole way through. i see it in action all the time - THAT battle drags everyone down. this is a tough concept to convey by typing! grrrr
Author NickFeek Posted September 2, 2011 Author Posted September 2, 2011 2sunny, I wouldn't say for me it's all about money. In fact I don't place much value on money at all, other than as a tool to bring to us what we might need or want. It's a means to an end & no more. Of the two of us, I'd be much more comfortable doing without creature comforts than she would. What I think this primal urge is about is providing & caring for the family - being the person who bears the lion's share of the burden. Since I'm currently unable to step in & take the burden off my wife's shoulders, I feel like I'm letting her down. trippi, believe me, I know all this. I could have written the same things to someone else. That's why it's so frustrating. I never expected this to become such an issue after so many years. And I completely agree that she is not accepting of this situation either. Of the two of us I think I have a much bigger problem with it than she does, but that's partly because our philosophies are so different. As I think I mentioned way back, she's more comfortable accepting "fate" as it were, and I'm more of a mind to change what isn't working. Either way, we're both hurting in this situation. And since her outlook on the job is all or nothing - i.e. no such thing in her office as working part time or cutting back hours - it would take a giant leap in my income for her to make a change. While you say she deserves that respect..are you really listening to HER? What respect is she wanting...is it really about her profession and what she contributes...or is it about looking in your eyes and seeing her true self, outside of the stresses, reflected back in them...and you in hers? Based on what she's said, she wants respect for the work she does, the money she provides to support the family, AND who she is as a person.
Author NickFeek Posted September 2, 2011 Author Posted September 2, 2011 my perspective on this concept is a bit different. Trippi - i value your perspective too - but i'd like to point out my experience with this concept. what one offers into the R matters. if there are TWO people - and each is bringing in a broken self - then how can anyone expect the R to be happy if one is broken and that's what is in the mix? and what IF both people bring their broken self into that mix also? we are meant to be individuals first - then partners after that. so - ideally, in my experience - IF both people are in that R as healthy people all on their own... and that is what enters the R - then THAT is a great place to start! then two healthy people bringing positive experience and perspective with balance and honesty offer THAT into a R where it can grow so they lift each other up, support each other and appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of the other. ideally, for me, i want to live a happy, healthy and safe life - each day that i'm here! THAT is MY boundary that i set for myself many years ago when i woke up... so i take my happy, healthy and safe self into my R. IF and WHEN it's not - i tighten my boundary so that i can still honor myself and MY boundary. it has been difficult at times, but it does tend to get things back in alignment very quickly when i follow that guideline that works for me. everyone is allowed to decide what that boundary should look like for them as individuals! no one else should decide that for them... but communicating with loved ones with HONESTY what the boundary looks like certainly helps to maintain good balance. someone ELSE will NEVER define who i am. i am who i am - then i take that self into my R. IF i were taking broken self into it... i should expect to get half a R at best... and if both are troubled - i should expect it to look like a total drag. a battle the whole way through. i see it in action all the time - THAT battle drags everyone down. this is a tough concept to convey by typing! grrrr I do generally agree with the concept that a healthy individual makes for a healthy relationship. What complicates our situation is we have basically grown up together, interwoven each other's histories & pathologies to a point where our individual adult selves and our marriage are virtually indistinguishable. I think part of why I was so intent on leaving or at least sabotaging this is because my gut was telling me we'd have a damn hard time becoming INDIVIDUALLY healthy stuck in the life we have/had. I think it may very well be easier to work on building a healthy SELF out of the context of an intense one-on-one relationship. So the task we've set ourselves (or at least I know I have) is to be individually healthy while still maintaining & trying to improve the marriage. To basically unweave a lot of what grew incorrectly while still staying connected. Not easy.
2sunny Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 so throw out anything and everything that has NOT been working for you two... IF you know it doesn't work - stop trying to force it to look like it's supposed to work. start with what DOES work - let go of the rest!
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