25 Years Together - Is it time to end it?

[NickFeek]

My point to you is this your use of the word "Payoff" points to an underlying feeling that you are somehow entitled to more .. I think you are trying very hard to be a modern fellow but underneath it all you are enraged, how dare she not appreciate me doing all the cooking and cleaning,I make it possible for her to work!"

 

Yes Nick, you make it possible for her to work... but her contribution makes

it possible for you not to pull your full half of the fiscal load,it also allows you to spend more time with your kids than most fathers, it allows you the freedom to work from home, a setup that's obviously provided you with

enough free time to indulge yourself in an affair.

 

On the rare occasions that I would express a work displeasure to my ex-husband, he'd always reply with "yeah but you get paid" you should have seen the look on his face when he complained about having to cook or to do laundry and I reminded him "yes but you get paid!"

 

An important point to remember here is this, you have an excellent chance of gaining full custody of the children, generous child support and a handsome alimony award. My ex collects quite a tidy sum,the only thing I won was freedom from his cheating arse.

 

Actually by traditional gender role standards, I'm trying very hard to be a modern woman! No, really it's not about being entitled to more. It's about needing what ANY reasonable person in a loving relationship should get, which is love & respect from their spouse. And I agree we each allow each other to do things we might not otherwise be able to do, but that still does not mitigate the loss of intimacy.

 

Also, just to set the record straight. I don't work from home. I have a full-time job in a regular office, and also run a company on the side. On top of that I come home every day to take care of the kids. Again, I don't mind this setup, and no offense to anyone who DOES work from home.

 

Good joke, and it's true!

 

It's funny. Others have told me the same thing about gaining custody, and I mentioned that to my wife as well. I also made it clear to her that the only reason I'd ever accept money from her was if I did get custody of the kids. But at the moment all this is very undecided.

[2sunny]

I totally agree that Nick's wife should be doing more of things that involve the kids like driving them. I don't agree that she should be stuck running home to cook dinner or dash to the supermarket.

 

I seldom cook or clean, why? because it costs me far less to pay others to do these things for me than it does to give up my billable time to do them myself.

 

LOL,I've often thought that a lot of modern marriages involving highly paid professionals would be a lot less conflict ridden if they'd just hire a cleaning service.

 

i understand that for you soserious, but the OP has made it clear - she isn't billing time - or hours in her job...

 

participating in a household involves much more than cooking or cleaning. the suggestion was made only to encourage his W to participate on SOME level... since she doesn't cook, make appts, shop, drive, have conversations, have sex, return calls or emails... what value is the relationship as a wife and/or mother if she's not joining in on SOME level of participation throughout the day? how can anyone feel connected on any level if the other partner isn't participating- and chooses NOT to participate at all?

[Ira]

Sorry but right now you are not in any position to get a pat on the back for anything (in my opinion).

[2sunny]

I think you are trying very hard to be a modern fellow but underneath it all you are enraged,

 

a modern fellow? he's playing the role of full time Mom AND Dad. give the guy a break - he's working a lot and taking care of all the things two parents normally take care of... while being ignored by his spouse, at best. i don't see many "modern fellows" doing all that.

 

 

how dare she not appreciate me doing all the cooking and cleaning,I make it possible for her to work!"

 

he's never said this... he simply would like his wife to interact with him by allowing him to be a part of her life, her thoughts, feelings - her love.

 

he never complained about DOING the things he does - he merely said he wished his wife would show him some consideration by being decent and participating within the family on some small level- that isn't too much to ask of a spouse.

 

money will never replace intimacy... it's just not possible...

[NickFeek]

Sorry but right now you are not in any position to get a pat on the back for anything (in my opinion).

 

Agreed. But that does not excuse all the years before I screwed up. I'm willing to pay the price for what I did, but if all signs are pointing to nothing changing once that period is over, then it kind of makes all this beside the point.

[NickFeek]

soserious & 2sunny, I really do think 2sunny's final statement sums up ALL of this: Money does not replace intimacy.

[soserious1]

Actually by traditional gender role standards, I'm trying very hard to be a modern woman! No, really it's not about being entitled to more. It's about needing what ANY reasonable person in a loving relationship should get, which is love & respect from their spouse. And I agree we each allow each other to do things we might not otherwise be able to do, but that still does not mitigate the loss of intimacy.

 

Also, just to set the record straight. I don't work from home. I have a full-time job in a regular office, and also run a company on the side. On top of that I come home every day to take care of the kids. Again, I don't mind this setup, and no offense to anyone who DOES work from home.

 

Good joke, and it's true!

 

It's funny. Others have told me the same thing about gaining custody, and I mentioned that to my wife as well. I also made it clear to her that the only reason I'd ever accept money from her was if I did get custody of the kids. But at the moment all this is very undecided.

 

 

I'm going to tell you the same thing I told my husband when he whined about having to do the bulk of the household tasks "you don't like our work share arrangement?you can change that at any time by bringing home an income equal to mine, I'm not going to pay the bills and run home to play lil'l Mrs Step and Fetch"

 

You don't like the division of labor in your house Nick, then step up your game career wise, become an equal partner in bringing in the money. Btw, I would also note that your slave like schedule somehow didn't stop you from

fitting an affair in did it?

 

 

2sunny,

 

In my experience people who mouth platitudes about money not equaling intimacy are generally not the ones charged with responsibility for earning most of it in a relationship

[soserious1]

i understand that for you soserious, but the OP has made it clear - she isn't billing time - or hours in her job...

 

participating in a household involves much more than cooking or cleaning. the suggestion was made only to encourage his W to participate on SOME level... since she doesn't cook, make appts, shop, drive, have conversations, have sex, return calls or emails... what value is the relationship as a wife and/or mother if she's not joining in on SOME level of participation throughout the day? how can anyone feel connected on any level if the other partner isn't participating- and chooses NOT to participate at all?

 

Nick's wife, by his own admission out earns him, she brings the bulk of the family's income, by his own admission at least 50% of the people in his wife's office work as hard as she does (knowing several lawyers I'd suspect that % is probably higher) lawyers work long hours,it's no secret & not unusual for her to do so.

 

Personally I think Nick's wife has probably been done with the marriage for quite awhile, the affair has just forced the issue to a head. The best thing these people could probably do at this point is to try to craft a amiable divorce settlement.

[NickFeek]

I'm going to tell you the same thing I told my husband when he whined about having to do the bulk of the household tasks "you don't like our work share arrangement?you can change that at any time by bringing home an income equal to mine, I'm not going to pay the bills and run home to play lil'l Mrs Step and Fetch"

 

You don't like the division of labor in your house Nick, then step up your game career wise, become an equal partner in bringing in the money. Btw, I would also note that your slave like schedule somehow didn't stop you from

fitting an affair in did it?

 

 

2sunny,

 

In my experience people who mouth platitudes about money not equaling intimacy are generally not the ones charged with responsibility for earning most of it in a relationship

 

soserious, I have to say I'm getting a little concerned right now. I've told you and everyone on this forum COUNTLESS times that I have no problem with the division of labor, that my housework is not the issue. I DON'T whine about the household or childcare tasks I do. I VALUE the money she brings in, and I understand the stress that puts on her. NONE of that excuses lack of intimacy. NONE of it.

 

And I never said I have a slave-like schedule. I was just pointing out that I also have responsibilities outside the home, and that doesn't stop me from finding time for family and for intimacy. And yes, I got your dig twice about me finding time for cheating. The whole thing is awful, and making snide remarks about it isn't going to further anything in this discussion.

 

It seems to me that you've made work/money the primary and perhaps ONLY important thing here, when everything we've been stressing is about the imbalance BETWEEN work and intimacy. Please respond to what's actually being said.

[NickFeek]

Nick's wife, by his own admission out earns him, she brings the bulk of the family's income, by his own admission at least 50% of the people in his wife's office work as hard as she does (knowing several lawyers I'd suspect that % is probably higher) lawyers work long hours,it's no secret & not unusual for her to do so.

 

Personally I think Nick's wife has probably been done with the marriage for quite awhile, the affair has just forced the issue to a head. The best thing these people could probably do at this point is to try to craft a amiable divorce settlement.

 

She seems less inclined to leave than I do, but she's also definitely shown resentment and frustration at our situation, so you may be more right than my wife is willing to admit.

[2sunny]

Nick's wife, by his own admission out earns him, she brings the bulk of the family's income, by his own admission at least 50% of the people in his wife's office work as hard as she does (knowing several lawyers I'd suspect that % is probably higher) lawyers work long hours,it's no secret & not unusual for her to do so.

 

Personally I think Nick's wife has probably been done with the marriage for quite awhile, the affair has just forced the issue to a head. The best thing these people could probably do at this point is to try to craft a amiable divorce settlement.

 

She seems less inclined to leave than I do, but she's also definitely shown resentment and frustration at our situation, so you may be more right than my wife is willing to admit.

 

again- the money wasn't the issue here.

 

the lack of involvement and interaction/intimacy is the issue.

 

his wife wants none... he wants some.

 

since his wife won't give any - he believes he deserves to BE in a relationship that looks loving and kind. which it's not since she doesn't participate.

 

anyone knows - if you ignore someone long enough they will go away... same could be said here in this situation.

 

he's basically begged her to change even the tiniest of things - to which she won't... seems she has left him few options to consider.

 

i agree, if you're not happy - get out. no one deserves to live a life that's not bringing happiness around them = that's really not living. you may as well be dead if you go through life being completely unhappy. that's not what i believe we are here for.

 

at least getting out would allow you to understand that - not having a partner is probably easier than - having one and pretending to be partnering with someone who is completely not a partner.

 

 

and soserious - when married - no matter who earns the money... when it's placed into the "we" pile - it also becomes his money too. unless everything has been kept separate for all those years most likely there money is combined.

[soserious1]

soserious, I have to say I'm getting a little concerned right now. I've told you and everyone on this forum COUNTLESS times that I have no problem with the division of labor, that my housework is not the issue. I DON'T whine about the household or childcare tasks I do. I VALUE the money she brings in, and I understand the stress that puts on her. NONE of that excuses lack of intimacy. NONE of it.

 

And I never said I have a slave-like schedule. I was just pointing out that I also have responsibilities outside the home, and that doesn't stop me from finding time for family and for intimacy. And yes, I got your dig twice about me finding time for cheating. The whole thing is awful, and making snide remarks about it isn't going to further anything in this discussion.

 

It seems to me that you've made work/money the primary and perhaps ONLY important thing here, when everything we've been stressing is about the imbalance BETWEEN work and intimacy. Please respond to what's actually being said.

 

 

I am responding to what's being said,you've gone on and on about the "imbalance" your wife is inflicting on you, have you stopped to think about

the imbalance that rests on her shoulders?

 

Your relative lack of careerist drive in relationship to hers puts the primary responsibility for bread winning squarely on her shoulders, I'm betting this imbalance in career ambition has over the years eroded her interest in you.

 

You do more at home because you don't do enough to bring in the money, you want to correct the "imbalance" on the domestic front, then step up and correct the imbalance on the breadwinning front.

[soserious1]

again- the money wasn't the issue here.

 

the lack of involvement and interaction/intimacy is the issue.

 

his wife wants none... he wants some.

 

since his wife won't give any - he believes he deserves to BE in a relationship that looks loving and kind. which it's not since she doesn't participate.

 

anyone knows - if you ignore someone long enough they will go away... same could be said here in this situation.

 

he's basically begged her to change even the tiniest of things - to which she won't... seems she has left him few options to consider.

 

i agree, if you're not happy - get out. no one deserves to live a life that's not bringing happiness around them = that's really not living. you may as well be dead if you go through life being completely unhappy. that's not what i believe we are here for.

 

at least getting out would allow you to understand that - not having a partner is probably easier than - having one and pretending to be partnering with someone who is completely not a partner.

 

 

and soserious - when married - no matter who earns the money... when it's placed into the "we" pile - it also becomes his money too. unless everything has been kept separate for all those years most likely there money is combined.

 

 

2sunny, I know all about the "we" pile,l got to support a so called house husband and continue to support him via a hefty monthly alimony check.Years of having to be the one putting the bulk of the money into that pile & pretending that the other's effort in that regard is equal gets old quick!

Edited May 20, 2011 by soserious1

[NickFeek]

I am responding to what's being said,you've gone on and on about the "imbalance" your wife is inflicting on you, have you stopped to think about

the imbalance that rests on her shoulders?

 

Your relative lack of careerist drive in relationship to hers puts the primary responsibility for bread winning squarely on her shoulders, I'm betting this imbalance in career ambition has over the years eroded her interest in you.

 

You do more at home because you don't do enough to bring in the money, you want to correct the "imbalance" on the domestic front, then step up and correct the imbalance on the breadwinning front.

 

Okay, so you are equating love & affection with financial worth. You are saying that the only reason a person should deserve a fair amount of intimacy in a relationship is if he or she is making an equal amount of money? You are completely devaluing the work that so many women (and some men) do at home and with the kids, by saying that those contributions aren't enough to "earn" a spouse's love & affection? That is sad & disturbing.

 

BUT I agree with your second paragraph, in that her frustration over shouldering the burden financially has caused her to resent me & grow more distant. YET I think that is ALSO sad & disturbing. She chose her career. She's happy with her job. She is an incredible achiever at work. I contribute an equal amount to this family in a combo of money & home/kid duties. This family could not function nearly as well without both of our contributions. Why should she resent me? Though we couldn't live on EITHER of our salaries alone, we could live if she took a job with a reduced salary. But she doesn't want to because she loves her job. And every time push comes to shove, she runs to her job, she defends her job. So it doesn't wash in my book that she's both resentful and in love with her job.

[NickFeek]

2sunny, I know all about the "we" pile,l got to support a so called house husband and continue to support him via a hefty monthly alimony check.Years of having to be the one putting the bulk of the money into that pile & pretending that the other's effort in that regard is equal gets old quick!

 

Ah so the resentment here is with your ex-house husband, and while there are parallels to my situation, it's not the same thing. We've been sharing money since we were 23. We have NEVER EVER had an issue with this even a tiny bit. We have both been employed all of that time. There were times early on when our incomes were more equal. When we started to have kids, WE BOTH agreed that it made more sense for me to stay at home with them. We were both happy with that. It forced me to put the brakes on my income potential, but I've recovered fairly well in the last six years. We've both made compromises we consider fair. The ONE THING that got lost in that shuffle was the actual marriage part.

 

I'm sorry your situation was the way it was, but this is not that. This is about the lack of love.

[2sunny]

placing all of the value in money seems backwards. telling the OP that he holds less value in the M because he may be earning less than his W holds no merit when we are discussing her lack of effort to correspond and interact within the family. no child should feel that a parent is absent or unavailable all day AND evening long each day.

 

some of my dearest family and friends are in high power positions - and when their family calls or corresponds - the family member is TOP priority for that time frame it takes to talk through logistics. four family members are doctors. my very large family knows we can get ahold of them and get an answer any time we need them... they are NOT too busy for family! and they earn a boat load of money - so don't tell me a high earner shouldn't have time for family life. these family members are home most nights (it IS their priority) they eat with the family, they attend school functions and important appointments with their spouses and kids. NEVER, EVER have they made their lesser earning spouse feel that they weren't "carrying their weight" as far as money. every decision is made between the two spouses - together - as a team - their kids know this - they see them talking things through - these are healthy examples for what a happy marriage looks like. many small and menial errands are run by the doctors themselves... even a phone call on the way home from work saying 'honey, do you need me to stop at the market for you?" THAT is what a partnership and love looks like. they talk things through - they consider the other spouses' feelings and viewpoint at every turn. that is healthy! these are the things that the OP isn't getting in his unbalanced, unhealthy, money driven wife. he wants a companion - not a money machine, not a workaholic, not an absent spouse.

[soserious1]

2sunny, at no time have I said that Nick's wife shouldn't be an actively involved parent no matter what her job entails and while Nick is unhappy

with the current driving schedule, he openly acknowledges that his wife

is responsive to communications that involve the kids and does do quite

a bit for them.

 

Nick-sounds like your wife decided a long time ago that she was unhappy with the imbalance between her careerist drive & yours.. you aren't matched on that front. Coupled with your increasingly louder demand that she share 50/50 in mundane domestic duties and the icing on the cake.. your affair, it sounds like from her POV the marriage is over, she just hasn't had the balls to come out and just say so plainly

 

I called a 45 yr old friend of mine, high powered,big earning gal & asked her if her husband ever complained about her "lack of participation in intimacy"

she laughed loud and long & said this "that's code for keep earning the big bucks but get your arse home fast & take care of these kids & get dinner so I can sit on my arse sucking down a beer , watching the big screen, oh and once you get the laundry done I'd like a BJ"

 

And no, I don't feel that one can buy intimacy, what I am saying is that everything has a cost if I'm to be responsible for bringing in all or most of the money in a relationship while being expected to act as if this contribution is nothing really & expected to shoulder 50% or more of the mundane details of our domestic lives.. then my partner needs to bring something really special and wonderful to table to make that exchange seem worth it.

 

From the sounds of things Nick's wife has decided that what Nick brings to the table is no longer worth what she's going to be expected to give in return for it.

Edited May 20, 2011 by soserious1

[soserious1]

placing all of the value in money seems backwards. telling the OP that he holds less value in the M because he may be earning less than his W holds no merit when we are discussing her lack of effort to correspond and interact within the family. no child should feel that a parent is absent or unavailable all day AND evening long each day.

 

some of my dearest family and friends are in high power positions - and when their family calls or corresponds - the family member is TOP priority for that time frame it takes to talk through logistics. four family members are doctors. my very large family knows we can get ahold of them and get an answer any time we need them... they are NOT too busy for family! and they earn a boat load of money - so don't tell me a high earner shouldn't have time for family life. these family members are home most nights (it IS their priority) they eat with the family, they attend school functions and important appointments with their spouses and kids. NEVER, EVER have they made their lesser earning spouse feel that they weren't "carrying their weight" as far as money. every decision is made between the two spouses - together - as a team - their kids know this - they see them talking things through - these are healthy examples for what a happy marriage looks like. many small and menial errands are run by the doctors themselves... even a phone call on the way home from work saying 'honey, do you need me to stop at the market for you?" THAT is what a partnership and love looks like. they talk things through - they consider the other spouses' feelings and viewpoint at every turn. that is healthy! these are the things that the OP isn't getting in his unbalanced, unhealthy, money driven wife. he wants a companion - not a money machine, not a workaholic, not an absent spouse.

 

 

Translation: the high earning spouse will serve as the family's cash cow while at all times apologizing for doing so and will also go out of their way

to do 50% or more of the tasks involved in running the home in an effort to

prove how "equal" things are.. the non-earning/lower earning spouse will repay this contribution with regular whining and complaining about how the breadwinner is "insensitive" or "not appreciative for all I do"

[NickFeek]

2sunny, at no time have I said that Nick's wife shouldn't be an actively involved parent no matter what her job entails and while Nick is unhappy

with the current driving schedule, he openly acknowledges that his wife

is responsive to communications that involve the kids and does do quite

a bit for them.

 

Nick-sounds like your wife decided a long time ago that she was unhappy with the imbalance between her careerist drive & yours.. you aren't matched on that front. Coupled with your increasingly louder demand that she share 50/50 in mundane domestic duties and the icing on the cake.. your affair, it sounds like from her POV the marriage is over, she just hasn't had the balls to come out and just say so plainly

 

I called a 45 yr old friend of mine, high powered,big earning gal & asked her if her husband ever complained about her "lack of participation in intimacy"

she laughed loud and long & said this "that's code for keep earning the big bucks but get your arse home fast & take care of these kids & get dinner so I can sit on my arse sucking down a beer , watching the big screen, oh and once you get the laundry done I'd like a BJ"

 

And no, I don't feel that one can buy intimacy, what I am saying is that everything has a cost if I'm to be responsible for bringing in all or most of the money in a relationship while being expected to act as if this contribution is nothing really & expected to shoulder 50% or more of the mundane details of our domestic lives.. then my partner needs to bring something really special and wonderful to table to make that exchange seem worth it.

 

From the sounds of things Nick's wife has decided that what Nick brings to the table is no longer worth what she's going to be expected to give in return for it.

 

I agree with your point that she's probably had it & just can't bring herself to pull the plug.

 

Beyond that, I can't believe I need to repeat YET AGAIN that I'm not asking her to shoulder 50% of home/kid tasks, NOR am I upset that she doesn't. This is not an issue for me. I also have never said I don't appreciate her financial contribution, so in no way do I act as if it's nothing. So let's take both of those points out of this argument as patently false, and throw them away.

 

Also, the "really special & wonderful" thing I bring to the table is my absolute incredible childcare & love for my children. I hate to break it to you, but for most compassionate parents, that's EQUAL to or more important than money. No amount of money in the world matters if you can't parent your kids.

 

Finally, it makes me really sad that there's someone in the world like your friend, who finds it so easy to dismiss her spouse's call for genuine intimacy as a veiled request for more participation in household tasks. That's just sick. It's an easy out for her - she doesn't have to bother trying if she really believes that. Now if she DOES have a husband like that, I'm very sorry. But there a million husbands & wives out there who crave actual intimacy, which ONCE AGAIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HOUSEWORK OR EARNING POTENTIAL. I just don't understand why you can't see this issue as separate and equally important on its own.

[NickFeek]

Translation: the high earning spouse will serve as the family's cash cow while at all times apologizing for doing so and will also go out of their way

to do 50% or more of the tasks involved in running the home in an effort to

prove how "equal" things are.. the non-earning/lower earning spouse will repay this contribution with regular whining and complaining about how the breadwinner is "insensitive" or "not appreciative for all I do"

 

Again, I'm not sure what argument you're participating in, but it's not this one. No one here is asking the higher earner to do more housework. And really, if a high earner is so resentful of the money he/she is "forced" to earn, then get another job. Or just be happy with what you're doing.

 

Either way, work is still no excuse for neglecting a partner. Then just don't be married & have kids. Or find a partner who's equally driven so neither of you miss the intimacy.

[2sunny]

Translation: the high earning spouse will serve as the family's cash cow while at all times apologizing for doing so and will also go out of their way

to do 50% or more of the tasks involved in running the home in an effort to

prove how "equal" things are.. the non-earning/lower earning spouse will repay this contribution with regular whining and complaining about how the breadwinner is "insensitive" or "not appreciative for all I do"

 

i honestly think you don't read what is typed. you stated completely the opposite of what i experience in daily life... read...

 

 

you couldn't be MORE wrong. your thinking is so twisted and backwards compared to MY value system and what i find important in life.

 

YOU can make more money - it doesn't make you more valuable in any sense - except to earn more money. money doesn't equate to happiness in my world... so save it. you seem to be in the dark- i won't live in that sad and sorry mindset. life is too good when money isn't the all important God of the world. i can't buy the happiness i experience on a daily basis... but i wish i could loan you some optimism that would help with that dark cloud around you.

 

i feel REALLY sorry for you - it's sad that you have such a negative, twisted idea of what is important in life. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE CHORES OR THE MONEY! he's said that over and over... give that part a rest.

[soserious1]

I agree with your point that she's probably had it & just can't bring herself to pull the plug.

 

Beyond that, I can't believe I need to repeat YET AGAIN that I'm not asking her to shoulder 50% of home/kid tasks, NOR am I upset that she doesn't. This is not an issue for me. I also have never said I don't appreciate her financial contribution, so in no way do I act as if it's nothing. So let's take both of those points out of this argument as patently false, and throw them away.

 

Also, the "really special & wonderful" thing I bring to the table is my absolute incredible childcare & love for my children. I hate to break it to you, but for most compassionate parents, that's EQUAL to or more important than money. No amount of money in the world matters if you can't parent your kids.

 

Finally, it makes me really sad that there's someone in the world like your friend, who finds it so easy to dismiss her spouse's call for genuine intimacy as a veiled request for more participation in household tasks. That's just sick. It's an easy out for her - she doesn't have to bother trying if she really believes that. Now if she DOES have a husband like that, I'm very sorry. But there a million husbands & wives out there who crave actual intimacy, which ONCE AGAIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HOUSEWORK OR EARNING POTENTIAL. I just don't understand why you can't see this issue as separate and equally important on its own.

 

 

Why can't I see this issue as equally important on it's own? because it is fact that despite increasingly high powered careers, women in great numbers still retain primary responsibility for running home and hearth. Yes, men in general are doing more but the complaint of a wife's "lack of participation" is

most usually issued because the husband likes the money she earns but isn't thrilled with her reduced participation in traditional wifely duties. A lot of high powered women are shocked to discover that their big careers don't exempt them from the 2nd shift ie: rushing home to take over kids & domestic duties from husbands who aren't quite as enlightened as they would like to believe they are. My friend laughs about her husband's complaint because it's true.. in his POV in an ideal world she'd continue to bring home the big $ while retaining the bulk of responsibility for domestic life, he feels he's "helping her out" conflict comes because while he "helps" more than his father did, he's not taking true ownership, ie: when mother is with her kids she's taking care of them, when a father is with them he's "babysitting"

 

btw you demonstrated my point perfectly when you said you provide "great childcare" to your children.. you aren't "helping her out" here you're actively parenting your kids, there is a huge difference between those 2 things.

Edited May 20, 2011 by soserious1

[2sunny]

Translation: the high earning spouse will serve as the family's cash cow while at all times apologizing for doing so and will also go out of their way

to do 50% or more of the tasks involved in running the home in an effort to

prove how "equal" things are.. the non-earning/lower earning spouse will repay this contribution with regular whining and complaining about how the breadwinner is "insensitive" or "not appreciative for all I do"

 

i am still completely stunned and appalled that your perception is so skewed - that money earns a spouse the right not to participate, and the the one who earns less should be made to feel "less than" - but also the right to take cheap shots by being condescending and mean spirited. how low and sad for you and for his wife. that mindset is completely derogatory and demeaning. but, i do think this is most likely S&C mindset of his W too - which makes sense why they don't see things the same or approach life in the same manner.

 

thanks for providing a peek into what the world looks like from a very selfish and self serving attitude - from a person that considers only self.

 

a sad and sorry place to be indeed.

[NickFeek]

Why can't I see this issue as equally important on it's own? because it is fact that despite increasingly high powered careers, women in great numbers still retain primary responsibility for running home and hearth. Yes, men in general are doing more but the complaint of a wife's "lack of participation" is

most usually issued because the husband likes the money she earns but isn't thrilled with her reduced participation in traditional wifely duties. A lot of high powered women are shocked to discover that their big careers don't exempt them from the 2nd shift ie: rushing home to take over kids & domestic duties from husbands who aren't quite as enlightened as they would like to believe they are. My friend laughs about her husband's complaint because it's true.. in his POV in an ideal world she'd continue to bring home the big $ while retaining the bulk of responsibility for domestic life, he feels he's "helping her out" conflict comes because while he "helps" more than his father did, he's not taking true ownership, ie: when mother is with her kids she's taking care of them, when a father is with them he's "babysitting"

 

btw you demonstrated my point perfectly when you said you provide "great childcare" to your children.. you aren't "helping her out" here you're actively parenting your kids, there is a huge difference between those 2 things.

 

Well I have to completely agree with your first paragraph. There's no excuse for a husband who expects that from a woman who works full time, and I would not want to be married to a man like that. I DO feel sorry for your friend.

 

But what point exactly am I demonstrating? I'm saying that my childcare is a valuable contribution to the household, at least as important as working. The family wouldn't function if either one was missing. I am ABSOLUTELY helping her out, and she's said as much a hundred times. She wishes she had more time with the kids, but is happy to see they have a father who can care for them when she can't.

[2sunny]

Why can't I see this issue as equally important on it's own? because it is fact that despite increasingly high powered careers, women in great numbers still retain primary responsibility for running home and hearth. Yes, men in general are doing more but the complaint of a wife's "lack of participation" is

most usually issued because the husband likes the money she earns but isn't thrilled with her reduced participation in traditional wifely duties. A lot of high powered women are shocked to discover that their big careers don't exempt them from the 2nd shift ie: rushing home to take over kids & domestic duties from husbands who aren't quite as enlightened as they would like to believe they are. My friend laughs about her husband's complaint because it's true.. in his POV in an ideal world she'd continue to bring home the big $ while retaining the bulk of responsibility for domestic life, he feels he's "helping her out" conflict comes because while he "helps" more than his father did, he's not taking true ownership, ie: when mother is with her kids she's taking care of them, when a father is with them he's "babysitting"

 

btw you demonstrated my point perfectly when you said you provide "great childcare" to your children.. you aren't "helping her out" here you're actively parenting your kids, there is a huge difference between those 2 things.

 

i suppose we shall see how much value he has when he steps away from all that "babysitting" he does. the sooner, the better. when one experiences some "change" in life - they start to realize a bit more of how things come together when another helps them out... and how much more difficult it can be without that person to help.

 

as long as things remain the same -his W is never going to realize what he may or may not do while running that household.

 

when his W has to participate on a level she refuses to now - she may get the idea of what her perception of "babysitting" is...