Author NickFeek Posted May 17, 2011 Author Posted May 17, 2011 Nick, A couple of thoughts 1. perhaps the marriage has been on the rocks (from your wife's POV) a lot longer than you've thought 2.I tend to be left brained, I don't do idle chit chat,I dislike the phone & seldom make purely social calls. Many men have told me that they've never met a woman as quiet as I am, I can spend an entire day with someone in under 100 words, I speak only when I have something of value to say. A man hoping for me to call merely to "check in" and regurgitate details of my work day would be waiting till the 12th of never for that call. You say that when it concerns logistics, things to do with the kids ie: her responsibilities she responds,perhaps she tends to be a bit of a left brained person herself? the more you tell me about her the more strongly I susoect this might be the case. These are great points. To answer 1, we just had a conversation about this. She said that, prior to the infidelity, if we could have eliminated my badgering her about work, she would have been perfectly content with our life. That she needs less from a relationship than I do, and so it would be easier for her to be happy. Now while I'm sure this is all true to a high degree, I also think she's overlooking that there have been plenty of times in the last 25 years she's been unhappy with me. The only thing I can think of that makes sense is that she is content with what she gets from her kids & her job, and is happy to have me as someone along for the ride (??). That if I was still closer to the center of her world she might not be as happy or content as she claims. But no matter, because it's true for her. And how can a relationship succeed if the two people have such vastly different levels of contentment? As for 2, I think you're dead on. Again, we just had this conversation, and she said she would have no problem going through just about every day with me not checking in on her at all, and that she does realize she hasn't been good at considering my differing need in this case. So we kind of expanded that to include other things like sex, and I made the point that part of loving someone is making an effort to fulfill their love & emotional needs (within reason, of course). We kind of concluded that maybe we just have such differing needs that we're no longer a good match. This was all done over the phone in our respective offices, so we couldn't get too personal. I said I'd like to continue this conversation because I think I can get very specific about what it is I would need to be happy, and I hoped she could do the same. She agreed, and also agreed that if it seems like we're unable or unwilling to fulfill each other's needs, we have no choice but to hang it up.
2sunny Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 it looks like she's content as long as you go along with being her whipping boy. to starve the person you're supposedly in love with from time and affection and attention - by not interacting with them - is completely cruel and NOT anything close to what a "relationship" usually looks like. normally - when someone is treated that way - even for a short period of time - they go away. the reason is this - when i'm ignored - i get the full idea that the person doesn't care enough to make an effort to interact with me. so i don't spend any time or energy where a person doesn't make an effort to have me as a priority. good balance is constantly giving and receiving energy. even animals display this characteristic. a dog gets happy to see people... they run over - wag the tail - and stay with the person who shows them the most love and attention. when any person ignores a dog - the dog never goes to THAT person - knowing full well they aren't going to receive any affection from that person. so the dog simply goes away from that person. she has to know she ignores you - what does she expect? does she expect that you'll hang around forever while she starves your spirit of love and affection? are you her personal doormat? looks like that's what she expects. even if you were - she could be decent and kind about her approach - by being respectful enough to have you feel valued. i think it's totally disrespectful and shows complete disregard that your M is on the line and she can't even have the courtesy to discuss things with you. SHE is responsible for how SHE participates - THAT is what she can hold herself accountable for... and she's NOT allowed to place blame on you for how little she interacts. that is completely all hers. and it seems that is the crux of all the other issues, yet she is unwilling to change. to feel alone - when you're not alone - is just plain cruel from the person who's purposely with holding what they could freely be giving. even babies die from no love and affection. we all need it, yet she doesn't DO it... at least not for you.
Author NickFeek Posted May 18, 2011 Author Posted May 18, 2011 it looks like she's content as long as you go along with being her whipping boy. to starve the person you're supposedly in love with from time and affection and attention - by not interacting with them - is completely cruel and NOT anything close to what a "relationship" usually looks like. normally - when someone is treated that way - even for a short period of time - they go away. the reason is this - when i'm ignored - i get the full idea that the person doesn't care enough to make an effort to interact with me. so i don't spend any time or energy where a person doesn't make an effort to have me as a priority. good balance is constantly giving and receiving energy. even animals display this characteristic. a dog gets happy to see people... they run over - wag the tail - and stay with the person who shows them the most love and attention. when any person ignores a dog - the dog never goes to THAT person - knowing full well they aren't going to receive any affection from that person. so the dog simply goes away from that person. she has to know she ignores you - what does she expect? does she expect that you'll hang around forever while she starves your spirit of love and affection? are you her personal doormat? looks like that's what she expects. even if you were - she could be decent and kind about her approach - by being respectful enough to have you feel valued. i think it's totally disrespectful and shows complete disregard that your M is on the line and she can't even have the courtesy to discuss things with you. SHE is responsible for how SHE participates - THAT is what she can hold herself accountable for... and she's NOT allowed to place blame on you for how little she interacts. that is completely all hers. and it seems that is the crux of all the other issues, yet she is unwilling to change. to feel alone - when you're not alone - is just plain cruel from the person who's purposely with holding what they could freely be giving. even babies die from no love and affection. we all need it, yet she doesn't DO it... at least not for you. It kills me to think this, yet it's obvious it's true. She is saying to me in no uncertain terms that she'd be happy with the way things are, more or less, which is all well & good for her, but it DOES leave me out in the cold. I can't think of a good excuse to freeze out a loved one like this (setting aside the infidelity, because this all was happening long before that), and not even try to extend yourself for their benefit. What's worse is she has a way of making it sound so reasonable & matter-of-fact, and moreover to always place the blame for this squarely on my shoulders. In the past I've been so guilt-ridden & self-sabotaging, and fearful of leaving her & being alone, that I'd latch onto her point of view in a heartbeat, and take it on myself to try to "fix" things. Better to assume control in a false construct than give it up for the truth, because that would have meant the end of the marriage. Now that I've been in a better place for quite a while, I can separate her "reality" from mine, and see that I'm at least as right as she is about why we don't connect the way we should. Yes, I've done things to damage our intimacy. And also yes she's never extended herself beyond her teenage comfort zone. And while I'm vowing to end my damaging behavior, she is NOT vowing to move an inch. I guess it's a valid choice for someone to want to stand by their principles and beliefs, in direct opposition to their one true love. And I guess in a way I'm doing that too, and the objective reality is we are just too different on the core issues of intimacy & quality time to find common ground anymore. It makes me extremely sad to think that so much else could go well and we will still fail at this marriage - no doubt in my mind I love her as much as I ever have, but the thought of sticking around any longer makes me feel even worse - because the REAL truth might be she just doesn't love me as much.
2sunny Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 i don't think it necessarily has anything to do with loving you "as much" - it's more that this statement means you are taking things personally... which is not useful. she may not intend to hurt you - she may also not be CAPABLE of love the way you prefer to RECEIVE love. two separate things. since she's not capable of doing life and love the way you prefer - and she's NOT willing to change at all = there is nothing to do except walk away knowing you both tried your best - but it just doesn't seem a good match. you need love, time and attention... someone who interacts on a loving level. family, friends and play time for creativity are the core of your happiness level. she doesn't! she wants to immesh herself in what she finds important = work, work, work. ignore life and keep working. no emotions - just be productive because to make money and be accomplished at work means she has value. see why they don't line up? see why you keep forcing it to be something that it may NEVER be? authentic love doesn't show up as this much of a battle. she's allowed you to understand her intentions... accepting what that is from her will make life easier as you move forward. her intentions are to hide at work... and have you take care of all the stuff in life she intends to hide from... as long as you DO that for her = she is satisfied. satisfied with little conversation, little interactions and little emotions and sex... that way she can avoid "feeling" and count on you to make it all look pretty for her so she can have this "pretend" family waiting at home. now that you are stepping away - she just runs to her parents to fill your role for her. she's still not going to DO any of it = unless she's forced to do it... in which that would take her family telling her "NO, we are not participating on that level of co-dependency for you." she's not living - she doesn't intend to get busy living... and you can't make her. you may as well get busy living without her dragging down what happy will look like for you.
Author NickFeek Posted May 18, 2011 Author Posted May 18, 2011 i don't think it necessarily has anything to do with loving you "as much" - it's more that this statement means you are taking things personally... which is not useful. she may not intend to hurt you - she may also not be CAPABLE of love the way you prefer to RECEIVE love. two separate things. since she's not capable of doing life and love the way you prefer - and she's NOT willing to change at all = there is nothing to do except walk away knowing you both tried your best - but it just doesn't seem a good match. you need love, time and attention... someone who interacts on a loving level. family, friends and play time for creativity are the core of your happiness level. she doesn't! she wants to immesh herself in what she finds important = work, work, work. ignore life and keep working. no emotions - just be productive because to make money and be accomplished at work means she has value. see why they don't line up? see why you keep forcing it to be something that it may NEVER be? authentic love doesn't show up as this much of a battle. she's allowed you to understand her intentions... accepting what that is from her will make life easier as you move forward. her intentions are to hide at work... and have you take care of all the stuff in life she intends to hide from... as long as you DO that for her = she is satisfied. satisfied with little conversation, little interactions and little emotions and sex... that way she can avoid "feeling" and count on you to make it all look pretty for her so she can have this "pretend" family waiting at home. now that you are stepping away - she just runs to her parents to fill your role for her. she's still not going to DO any of it = unless she's forced to do it... in which that would take her family telling her "NO, we are not participating on that level of co-dependency for you." she's not living - she doesn't intend to get busy living... and you can't make her. you may as well get busy living without her dragging down what happy will look like for you. So it becomes a matter of differing needs & philosophies, which in a way makes this more tragic, because then it means she does love me quite a bit. But what I'm saying beyond that is, if you REALLY love and trust someone THAT MUCH, then you should be more willing to do things outside of your comfort zone to make them feel loved. And if you're NOT willing to do those things, then to me that means there is a quantity or intensity of love that is missing. It's more than just "separate but equal". The line that hit me the most is "Authentic love doesn't show up as this much of a battle." My brother said the same thing to me weeks ago, phrased as, "Love is hard work, but it shouldn't be THAT MUCH hard work."
2sunny Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 So it becomes a matter of differing needs & philosophies, which in a way makes this more tragic, because then it means she does love me quite a bit. But what I'm saying beyond that is, if you REALLY love and trust someone THAT MUCH, then you should be more willing to do things outside of your comfort zone to make them feel loved. And if you're NOT willing to do those things, then to me that means there is a quantity or intensity of love that is missing. It's more than just "separate but equal". The line that hit me the most is "Authentic love doesn't show up as this much of a battle." My brother said the same thing to me weeks ago, phrased as, "Love is hard work, but it shouldn't be THAT MUCH hard work." i think you are minimizing the basic fact that: she is just very selfish. she's COMPLETELY selfish - so much so - that she's unwilling to DO anything different to make anyone else happy - except what SHE wants... which is to work. acceptance is key. accept that she is what she is. that makes things a bit easier to deal with.
Author NickFeek Posted May 18, 2011 Author Posted May 18, 2011 i think you are minimizing the basic fact that: she is just very selfish. she's COMPLETELY selfish - so much so - that she's unwilling to DO anything different to make anyone else happy - except what SHE wants... which is to work. acceptance is key. accept that she is what she is. that makes things a bit easier to deal with. It's just hard for me because in other ways she's a very loving & caring person. If she were just a straight up heartless, self-centered workaholic, I'd be gone already. But she's more multifaceted than that, and she definitely affects me in more ways than one. But I'm almost certain our next talk will be the DECIDING talk, so either way I'll be moving forward, hopefully onto more fulfilling things.
2sunny Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 has she ever fully explained what keeps her from making a phone call, text or mail to you everyday - while she's working? even the busiest people in the world find a few minutes each day while they are working - to STAY CONNECTED to those they care about. ANY person honed in on work THAT much - isn't trying to live in good balance... is everyone in her workplace living to work - shutting out any possibility of outside relationships and pleasure - or is it only her?
soserious1 Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 Nick, Is it possible that the two of you were grossly mismatched in terms of life goals, needs and personality styles from the very beginning but that this fact was clouded by the lust/infatuation of early romance? Most lawyers I know are incredibly driven people, working 80 hours or more a week is far from unusual. It is entirely possible that she feels that building her career to the point that she can generate an excellent income for the family is her way of providing love,nurture. You have admitted that she does a lot for the kids & is communicative, responsive when it comes to their scheduling needs.. this to me doesn't spell a horrible, deliberately cruel woman. What it says to me is that this gal see's no value in curtailing her billable hours to come home to cook and clean,(menial work that can be easily hired out if her income can grow large enough) that she's not interested in the usual "he sad, she said" non-stop verbal garbage spewing most women do to their husbands. In short, it sounds like you both have wildly different personal needs and probably have from the beginning... a very sad thing but not something that makes either of you selfish,cruel monsters. Let me ask you honestly here,if your wife was to arrange to pay to have more of the basic household tasks done, freeing you up from the Mr Mom role would you be happier? Is providing the means to have the kitchen floor scrubbed caring enough or do you actually need to see her remove her lawyer suit to get on her hands and knees to scrub ie: demonstrating that though she's a big shot lawyer at the end of the day, she's still like any other traditional housewife? I've met a lot of guys who claim to want highly powered, high earning wives but when it came down to living in the reality that entailed, deeply ingrained cultural values about the roles, power between the genders com into play. LOL, my ex was totally outraged over my disinterest in certain household tasks, taking it as a personal affront that I'd pay a service to do our laundry rather than seeing it as I did.. the time spent doing laundry was time I could have billed for, it made no sense to me spend $100 an hour washing clothing when I could pay to have it done for $25.
2sunny Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 Nick, Is it possible that the two of you were grossly mismatched in terms of life goals, needs and personality styles from the very beginning but that this fact was clouded by the lust/infatuation of early romance? Most lawyers I know are incredibly driven people, working 80 hours or more a week is far from unusual. It is entirely possible that she feels that building her career to the point that she can generate an excellent income for the family is her way of providing love,nurture. You have admitted that she does a lot for the kids & is communicative, responsive when it comes to their scheduling needs.. this to me doesn't spell a horrible, deliberately cruel woman. What it says to me is that this gal see's no value in curtailing her billable hours to come home to cook and clean,(menial work that can be easily hired out if her income can grow large enough) that she's not interested in the usual "he sad, she said" non-stop verbal garbage spewing most women do to their husbands. In short, it sounds like you both have wildly different personal needs and probably have from the beginning... a very sad thing but not something that makes either of you selfish,cruel monsters. Let me ask you honestly here,if your wife was to arrange to pay to have more of the basic household tasks done, freeing you up from the Mr Mom role would you be happier? Is providing the means to have the kitchen floor scrubbed caring enough or do you actually need to see her remove her lawyer suit to get on her hands and knees to scrub ie: demonstrating that though she's a big shot lawyer at the end of the day, she's still like any other traditional housewife? I've met a lot of guys who claim to want highly powered, high earning wives but when it came down to living in the reality that entailed, deeply ingrained cultural values about the roles, power between the genders com into play. LOL, my ex was totally outraged over my disinterest in certain household tasks, taking it as a personal affront that I'd pay a service to do our laundry rather than seeing it as I did.. the time spent doing laundry was time I could have billed for, it made no sense to me spend $100 an hour washing clothing when I could pay to have it done for $25. soserious - when you are working 80 hours a week... do you find time to communicate with friends and family while you work? a phone call, text or email just to reach out and stay connected while you're busy?
soserious1 Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) soserious - when you are working 80 hours a week... do you find time to communicate with friends and family while you work? a phone call, text or email just to reach out and stay connected while you're busy? 2sunny, I call, text or email people only when I have something of value to take up their time with.I don't appreciate junk mail forwards of stupid jokes, people who call me up to yammer endlessly about nothing and by the same token I don't torment my friends /loved ones with such treatment ie: a phone call saying "I can get theater tix's for Friday wanna go?" is worth receiving or placing.. a phone call that starts with "I just called to see what you're doing that then degenerates into yammering on about he said, she said nonsense"is not a phone call I'm going to make or one that I'm interested in receiving I show love via the providing of income, via acts of service like scoring those impossible to get theater tickets, hooking you up with an important, work or school connection, promoting,advocating for your causes etc. Calling somebody just to be able to say that I did? as proof that I care? No way, it strikes me as a rather rude imposition of a time suck. Edited May 18, 2011 by soserious1
2sunny Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 2sunny, I call, text or email people only when I have something of value to take up their time with.I don't appreciate junk mail forwards of stupid jokes, people who call me up to yammer endlessly about nothing and by the same token I don't torment my friends /loved ones with such treatment ie: a phone call saying "I can get theater tix's for Friday wanna go?" is worth receiving or placing.. a phone call that starts with "I just called to see what you're doing that then degenerates into yammering on about he said, she said nonsense"is not a phone call I'm going to make or one that I'm interested in receiving I show love via the providing of income, via acts of service like scoring those impossible to get theater tickets, hooking you up with an important, work or school connection, promoting,advocating for your causes etc. Calling somebody just to be able to say that I did? as proof that I care? No way, it strikes me as a rather rude imposition of a time suck. i wasn't inferring needless words for empty effort. i was simply asking if you participate in life outside of your workplace... by making effort to stay in touch with others.
Author NickFeek Posted May 18, 2011 Author Posted May 18, 2011 has she ever fully explained what keeps her from making a phone call, text or mail to you everyday - while she's working? even the busiest people in the world find a few minutes each day while they are working - to STAY CONNECTED to those they care about. ANY person honed in on work THAT much - isn't trying to live in good balance... is everyone in her workplace living to work - shutting out any possibility of outside relationships and pleasure - or is it only her? No, not really. She just says, "You just don't understand how I'm on call after call with no break in between. I don't even have a second to myself." I don't really get more specifics, I think because there ARE no more specifics. No question her balance has been out of whack for a really long time. We've talked about this for years, with no real change. I think that kind of overwork might be more prevalent in her profession and her office, but not everyone stays as late as she does. I couldn't say for certain, but it's probably 50-50.
Author NickFeek Posted May 18, 2011 Author Posted May 18, 2011 Nick, Is it possible that the two of you were grossly mismatched in terms of life goals, needs and personality styles from the very beginning but that this fact was clouded by the lust/infatuation of early romance? Most lawyers I know are incredibly driven people, working 80 hours or more a week is far from unusual. It is entirely possible that she feels that building her career to the point that she can generate an excellent income for the family is her way of providing love,nurture. You have admitted that she does a lot for the kids & is communicative, responsive when it comes to their scheduling needs.. this to me doesn't spell a horrible, deliberately cruel woman. What it says to me is that this gal see's no value in curtailing her billable hours to come home to cook and clean,(menial work that can be easily hired out if her income can grow large enough) that she's not interested in the usual "he sad, she said" non-stop verbal garbage spewing most women do to their husbands. In short, it sounds like you both have wildly different personal needs and probably have from the beginning... a very sad thing but not something that makes either of you selfish,cruel monsters. Let me ask you honestly here,if your wife was to arrange to pay to have more of the basic household tasks done, freeing you up from the Mr Mom role would you be happier? Is providing the means to have the kitchen floor scrubbed caring enough or do you actually need to see her remove her lawyer suit to get on her hands and knees to scrub ie: demonstrating that though she's a big shot lawyer at the end of the day, she's still like any other traditional housewife? I've met a lot of guys who claim to want highly powered, high earning wives but when it came down to living in the reality that entailed, deeply ingrained cultural values about the roles, power between the genders com into play. LOL, my ex was totally outraged over my disinterest in certain household tasks, taking it as a personal affront that I'd pay a service to do our laundry rather than seeing it as I did.. the time spent doing laundry was time I could have billed for, it made no sense to me spend $100 an hour washing clothing when I could pay to have it done for $25. We were "matched" when we were 17 years old, so it's more likely that we just began to grow differently & develop different priorities. I agree we now have wildly different needs, and also completely agree that she's not a horrible person by any stretch. But in her company, measure of worth is not based on billable hours. Her problem in every job she's ever had is that she'd rather say yes to everything that comes across her desk, and she's never been good at delegating. My Mr. Mom role has nothing to do with my unhappiness. Even if/when we split, I'd be more than happy to continue doing some of that - keeping in mind I do also have a full-time job. I have no desire to have her do more housework or ANYTHING like that. I'm not looking for traditional roles at all. I'm looking for someone who actually wants to be my companion & spend time with me, things that are clearly no longer a priority for her. I've told her SO OFTEN that I'd continue to do all of this if our personal/social/sex life was better. It's all about balance for me. I have tons of respect for whatever career a woman wants to pursue. And men too. I have very little respect for people of either gender who sacrifice the rest of their lives for work - unless it's a choice they made from the beginning - i.e. they decided early on not to get married & have kids, or managed to find a like minded person. I really think the root of this problem is we hooked up SO YOUNG that it was inevitable we'd change in unexpected ways, and probably moreso than people who meet in their 20s, 30s or 40s. AND that having kids seemed to completely shift me out of her priority spectrum. But really great points all around. Thank you.
2sunny Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 sooooo, now that you understand that she doesn't intend to change - and you intend to find out what happy looks like for you - what are you DOING to change things for YOU? remember - she's going to keep things the same. what are you changing?
Author NickFeek Posted May 19, 2011 Author Posted May 19, 2011 sooooo, now that you understand that she doesn't intend to change - and you intend to find out what happy looks like for you - what are you DOING to change things for YOU? remember - she's going to keep things the same. what are you changing? It's a question that gets more important, and harder to answer, the closer we get to the end. It's a matter of degrees. Having to consider the kids, I'll have to make compromises that might not put me as far out & away as I'd like to be. BUT the first step is to make the final decision to separate, and that's what's coming next.
2sunny Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 It's a question that gets more important, and harder to answer, the closer we get to the end. It's a matter of degrees. Having to consider the kids, I'll have to make compromises that might not put me as far out & away as I'd like to be. BUT the first step is to make the final decision to separate, and that's what's coming next. well - you know she's not going to do it... she knows you are miserable - yet she expects you to stay miserable so she can be happy just working away. as long as you leave it that way - your happiness level is left at her mercy - of doing nothing different. as soon as there is change - there becomes hope that happiness is possible. keeping this in mind - there is no reason to be unkind to her. just have a firm boundary that invokes change. good balance is key - no doormat - no rescuer - no fixer... just you getting busy with new things that make you happy. what she does with that is hers... she will adjust as well. she will need to start doing more. is she driving the kids yet? is she making dinner or going to the market? she will only start DOING some of these things when you STOP doing them all... what are you doing to change that?
Author NickFeek Posted May 19, 2011 Author Posted May 19, 2011 well - you know she's not going to do it... she knows you are miserable - yet she expects you to stay miserable so she can be happy just working away. as long as you leave it that way - your happiness level is left at her mercy - of doing nothing different. as soon as there is change - there becomes hope that happiness is possible. keeping this in mind - there is no reason to be unkind to her. just have a firm boundary that invokes change. good balance is key - no doormat - no rescuer - no fixer... just you getting busy with new things that make you happy. what she does with that is hers... she will adjust as well. she will need to start doing more. is she driving the kids yet? is she making dinner or going to the market? she will only start DOING some of these things when you STOP doing them all... what are you doing to change that? That stuff will change when we are officially separated. Some of it immediately, some of it with time, based on how much we need to do for the kids. But things will definitely change. I wish you could be in the same room with her when she's in a good & reasonable & kind mood. It really makes me feel like the heel & the incorrect party. It's only checking in with this forum & other friends & family that helps me to stay more objective. But it doesn't make it any easier to imagine what I'll say when I pull the plug. And I do agree there needs to be no cruelty or vindictiveness.
soserious1 Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 I totally agree that Nick's wife should be doing more of things that involve the kids like driving them. I don't agree that she should be stuck running home to cook dinner or dash to the supermarket. I seldom cook or clean, why? because it costs me far less to pay others to do these things for me than it does to give up my billable time to do them myself. LOL,I've often thought that a lot of modern marriages involving highly paid professionals would be a lot less conflict ridden if they'd just hire a cleaning service.
Author NickFeek Posted May 19, 2011 Author Posted May 19, 2011 I totally agree that Nick's wife should be doing more of things that involve the kids like driving them. I don't agree that she should be stuck running home to cook dinner or dash to the supermarket. I seldom cook or clean, why? because it costs me far less to pay others to do these things for me than it does to give up my billable time to do them myself. LOL,I've often thought that a lot of modern marriages involving highly paid professionals would be a lot less conflict ridden if they'd just hire a cleaning service. HA that's definitely true. You can see why some more affluent couples would resort to having nannies & such. Not something we could do to our kids regularly, but life is too damn complicated without help! I try to leave her as little as possible to do when she gets home, both for the house and for the kids. And thus far the payoff from that has been ... ?? Doesn't mean I intend to saddle her with more work out of vindictiveness, but that just illustrates how imbalanced things are.
Ira Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 If I were her I too would be working extra time and staying away from you. You said you two have been working on the cheating issue for 6 months now. She is taking the space she needs right now and thinking, trying to figure things out. That is my opinion
Author NickFeek Posted May 19, 2011 Author Posted May 19, 2011 If I were her I too would be working extra time and staying away from you. You said you two have been working on the cheating issue for 6 months now. She is taking the space she needs right now and thinking, trying to figure things out. That is my opinion This is also why I haven't rushed her. I know it takes a while for someone to get over being cheated on, if ever. No question that's partly what she's doing, in that she's getting space from me. I'm sure she's using part of that time to think, because at times she does come back with different things to discuss, but with her job the way it is most of her day is work. It's more of an escape than anything else, which I can empathize with. Or I COULD empathize with it if it didn't describe to a T how she's been for years, long before any cheating.
soserious1 Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) HA that's definitely true. You can see why some more affluent couples would resort to having nannies & such. Not something we could do to our kids regularly, but life is too damn complicated without help! I try to leave her as little as possible to do when she gets home, both for the house and for the kids. And thus far the payoff from that has been ... ?? Doesn't mean I intend to saddle her with more work out of vindictiveness, but that just illustrates how imbalanced things are. The "payoff" as you phrase it is that you are making up for the "imbalance" between your wages and hers,you also get to work from home and spend more time with your kids than traditional fathers do. If you want her to step to the plate to cook and clean more, then you need to step to the plate and match her earning power dollar for dollar,it's only fair. Both of you bringing matching dollars to the table, both of you then deciding how to divide mundane domestic responsibilities or deciding to hire them out. Edited May 19, 2011 by soserious1
Author NickFeek Posted May 19, 2011 Author Posted May 19, 2011 The "payoff" as you phrase it is that you are making up for the "imbalance" between your wages and hers,you also get to work from home. If you want her to step to the plate to cook and clean more, then you need to step to the plate and match her earning power dollar for dollar,it's only fair. I'm not sure how much more clearly I can state that the amount of work I do at home is not the issue for me. If anything, it's more of an issue for her, as she seems to grossly undervalue what I do, and overlook the fact that she'd be unable to work so much if I didn't do all that. In its own world, judged apart from other relationship issues, there is no imbalance as far as work goes. The imbalance I'm talking about is between the work and the personal. The payoff for ANYONE in a loving partnership working his/her ass off should be tangible love and affection. In words, deeds, desires, emotions: a whole host of ways that of course includes sex/intimacy. Taken in the context of an entire life and complete relationship, there is a giant imbalance. When you have two hard workers who also have kids, the only way for the personal to work is to A. want it and B. make time for it. I'm suspicious with her about the first, and the second is nonexistent.
soserious1 Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) I'm not sure how much more clearly I can state that the amount of work I do at home is not the issue for me. If anything, it's more of an issue for her, as she seems to grossly undervalue what I do, and overlook the fact that she'd be unable to work so much if I didn't do all that. In its own world, judged apart from other relationship issues, there is no imbalance as far as work goes. The imbalance I'm talking about is between the work and the personal. The payoff for ANYONE in a loving partnership working his/her ass off should be tangible love and affection. In words, deeds, desires, emotions: a whole host of ways that of course includes sex/intimacy. Taken in the context of an entire life and complete relationship, there is a giant imbalance. When you have two hard workers who also have kids, the only way for the personal to work is to A. want it and B. make time for it. I'm suspicious with her about the first, and the second is nonexistent. My point to you is this your use of the word "Payoff" points to an underlying feeling that you are somehow entitled to more .. I think you are trying very hard to be a modern fellow but underneath it all you are enraged, how dare she not appreciate me doing all the cooking and cleaning,I make it possible for her to work!" Yes Nick, you make it possible for her to work... but her contribution makes it possible for you not to pull your full half of the fiscal load,it also allows you to spend more time with your kids than most fathers, it allows you the freedom to work from home, a setup that's obviously provided you with enough free time to indulge yourself in an affair. On the rare occasions that I would express a work displeasure to my ex-husband, he'd always reply with "yeah but you get paid" you should have seen the look on his face when he complained about having to cook or to do laundry and I reminded him "yes but you get paid!" An important point to remember here is this, you have an excellent chance of gaining full custody of the children, generous child support and a handsome alimony award. My ex collects quite a tidy sum,the only thing I won was freedom from his cheating arse. Edited May 19, 2011 by soserious1
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