25 Years Together - Is it time to end it?

[NickFeek]

for what it's worth - i still smell a rat... i think her emotional and intimacy must be placed somewhere else besides home.

 

i don't want to get off track - but i can usually see it from this far away.

 

if it were me - i'd walk right into her office today - pay close attention to what's happening while you are there... and how she reacts... and how "others" react to you visiting your wife at work.

 

sit down and give her your new rules... calmly, cleanly and straight up. just the facts. speak your truth.

 

no room for any argument - just state what you are no longer willing to DO for her.

 

see how she acts... it's only right that you let her know... and do it at work - since she's always there and won't answer email or her phone.

 

give her what options she's left you with - which is nothing... except to walk in there and tell her what you aren't gonna do any longer.

 

this is what taking "action" on a new, healthy boundary looks like...

 

It would be LESS scary for me if there WAS a rat, because then at least I can see her as a full feeling person. I'm afraid she just keeps it all deep down, lets it out for her family now & then, and suffers the rest of the time. She's not a very happy person, and I'd imagine she'd be happier if she had someone else.

 

Nah, I'm going to keep this out of work and at home. We're getting together Sunday night, so I'll tell her then.

[2sunny]

It would be LESS scary for me if there WAS a rat, because then at least I can see her as a full feeling person. I'm afraid she just keeps it all deep down, lets it out for her family now & then, and suffers the rest of the time. She's not a very happy person, and I'd imagine she'd be happier if she had someone else.

 

Nah, I'm going to keep this out of work and at home. We're getting together Sunday night, so I'll tell her then.

 

i smell fear - fear that you may very well find what you don't want to see...

[NickFeek]

i smell fear - fear that you may very well find what you don't want to see...

 

No I'm really not afraid of this. I think she is and has always been extremely repressed. If I did find out something like this, my first response would be total shock, and then I might just break down laughing because of how insanely out of character it would be.

[2sunny]

No I'm really not afraid of this. I think she is and has always been extremely repressed. If I did find out something like this, my first response would be total shock, and then I might just break down laughing because of how insanely out of character it would be.

 

only one way to find out...

[soserious1]

it doesn't matter what you would NORMALLY want to do - this is designed to see IF she'll even TRY to DO something rather than not much - or nothing.

 

IF you don't DO it - we need to see if she will.

 

IF you divorce - she's going to be forced to do some of these things anyway... so it's essentially getting her into practice for what may be coming.

 

she doesn't participate in the family because YOU do most of it. when you look at HOW YOU PARTICIPATE - you need to understand that it affects others... and for her = she is off the hook... simply because she KNOWS you are going to do all the $hit stuff.

 

when YOU stop playing the familiar role - she's going to HAVE to adjust. then see what she does or doesn't do.

 

 

 

on a side note - this isn't a marriage, partnership - or anything that looks close to loving behavior. you aren't married. if you are - you're married to a ghost! that ghost can easily be replaced by someone who participates.

 

why stay? there's no reason to stay when she isn't even participating.

 

 

 

and if you were my spouse, I'd hire household help to pick up the slack and tell you to fsck off.

 

Sorry but I was the female breadwinner in a marriage, there's no way in hell that I'm going to bust my arse to support an entire household while also rushing home to put on my thong, ball gag & high heeled steppers so that I can cook for,clean up after and provide sex on demand for somebody who

I'm fiscally supporting.

 

Guess what 2sunny? finding a replacement house husband, a guy who's content to take care of home and hearth as long as the woman foots the bills isn't too difficult either

 

Btw, earning the money that the family needs to live and live comfortably is also "the shiat stuff" not to mention that the value

of this woman's billable hour is probably enough to hire out menial household tasks so that neither party needs to do them.

Edited May 12, 2011 by soserious1

[NickFeek]

and if you were my spouse, I'd hire household help to pick up the slack and tell you to fsck off.

 

Sorry but I was the female breadwinner in a marriage, there's no way in hell that I'm going to bust my arse to support an entire household while also rushing home to put on my thong, ball gag & high heeled steppers so that I can cook for,clean up after and provide sex on demand for somebody who

I'm fiscally supporting.

 

Guess what 2sunny? finding a replacement house husband, a guy who's content to take care of home and hearth as long as the woman foots the bills isn't too difficult either

 

Btw, earning the money that the family needs to live and live comfortably is also "the shiat stuff"

 

And that's why I'm saying I would have been fine with this arrangement if our personal life was better. We're each contributing in different ways, and objectively that works. I DO think she should know how to do certain things for herself just as a matter of practicality and autonomy. And don't forget I have a full-time job as well. She does make more than I do, but we couldn't survive if we lost EITHER income.

 

It really does come down to the interpersonal and not all this stuff. This is just the nuts & bolts of a life, and we had none of the grease to keep the gears moving happily.

[soserious1]

And that's why I'm saying I would have been fine with this arrangement if our personal life was better. We're each contributing in different ways, and objectively that works. I DO think she should know how to do certain things for herself just as a matter of practicality and autonomy. And don't forget I have a full-time job as well. She does make more than I do, but we couldn't survive if we lost EITHER income.

 

It really does come down to the interpersonal and not all this stuff. This is just the nuts & bolts of a life, and we had none of the grease to keep the gears moving happily.

 

My point in saying all that was this, you, in spite of diplomatically telling people that you will approach confrontation with your wife at your own pace are being literally goaded into doing so in a way that's turning underlying resentments into a full blown anger and frankly it's beginning to trouble me.

 

This place is words on a anonymous message board Nick, I'd advise that you get yourself an individual counselor,while working with that person decide what you can and cannot live with, then you bring your wife in, not to counsel her but rather to formally lay out how you feel and what will happen if she cannot agree to work with you on changing things.. then go from there.This place can be useful but it is no substitute for real counseling and objective 3rd party support in your real time life. You have a 25 yr investment

here,get some real time,professional assistance!

Edited May 12, 2011 by soserious1

[NickFeek]

My point in saying all that was this, you, in spite of diplomatically telling people that you will approach confrontation with your wife at your own pace are being literally goaded into doing so in a way that's turning underlying resentments into a full blown anger and frankly it's beginning to trouble me.

 

This place is words on a anonymous message board Nick, I'd advise that you get yourself an individual counselor,while working with that person decide what you can and cannot live with, then you bring your wife in, not to counsel her but rather to formally lay out how you feel and what will happen if she cannot agree to work with you on changing things.. then go from there.This place can be useful but it is no substitute for real counseling and objective 3rd party support in your real time life. You have a 25 yr investment

here,get some real time,professional assistance!

 

I think you're assuming that I just blindly follow whatever anyone writes on here, when I'd have to say the exact opposite is true. I read everything, take it all in, and decide for myself. The reason why I'm not able to fully embrace 2sunny's approach is that I'm NOT AT ALL looking to cause more anger, grief, frustration, resentment, etc. And I can say that EVERY interaction I've had with my wife in the last several weeks has been even-tempered, thoughtful and respectful. So please don't make assumptions based on "words on an anonymous message board."

 

Unfortunately, my wife is 100% dead set against counseling, and having been in therapy for quite a while in my past, I know full well when I do & don't need it. Right now, I don't need it. I think our MARRIAGE does, but without her participating it's pointless.

 

Having said all that, I own the fact that I've been angry for a very long time, as anyone would who's in a relationship with a ghost. I don't LIKE that I'm angry, but I can't ignore it. All I can do is act and speak to her from a place of understanding, and not ride that anger into more hurt for everyone.

[soserious1]

Nick,

 

All I can offer up at this point is that if she won't go to counseling and won't agree to reduce her billable work hours then your options are limited here.

 

1. live with it as it is- do let her know she'll need to use personal days from work to assist in getting the kids to doctor appointments etc,being a fully functioning parent is not an optional choice here, if she needs to do so on 4 hours sleep that's her choice.( lots of really busy professional people function on minimal sleep in order to meet

all their obligations) she needs to get creative here in balancing her obligations , shunting her parenting responsibilities onto you isn't acceptable.

 

Also let her know that she'll need to earn additional money and make those funds available to hire household help to cover her 50% of household tasks, stop doing things like getting her ATM cash, dropping off her dry cleaning etc.. she can either do those things herself or earn the money to pay somebody to do them for her.You are also employed and will not do more

than your 50% fair share, she is not ill or injured and needs to find a way

to handle her half the load.

 

In a similar vein, let her know that you intend to get a life, you want to go places, do things, you'd like to do them with her but if not you will be going out, making friends, having occasional "boy's night out's" and weekends away,she is also entitled to personal time but choosing to spend it working does not allow her to deprive you of your time, she will need to be responsible for the children and household during those times

 

As for sex, I'd tell her quietly that you can no longer live in a sexless marriage,she'll need to find time to schedule sex with you x2 per week and at least pretend to be enthusiastic about it or you will find someone who will.. her choice.

 

2. You can try once again to offer counseling, you could point out to her that it won't be just your demands being discussed, she will also be allowed, encouraged to air her grievances, things she wants to see changed in the marriage.

 

If you can't live with option number 1 and she won't go for option number 2 then hiring a lawyer and calling it quits is probably the only option left.

Edited May 12, 2011 by soserious1

[NickFeek]

Nick,

 

All I can offer up at this point is that if she won't go to counseling and won't agree to reduce her billable work hours then your options are limited here.

 

1. live with it as it is- do let her know she'll need to use personal days from work to assist in getting the kids to doctor appointments etc,being a fully functioning parent is not an optional choice here, if she needs to do so on 4 hours sleep that's her choice.( lots of really busy professional people function on minimal sleep in order to meet

all their obligations) she needs to get creative here in balancing her obligations , shunting her parenting responsibilities onto you isn't acceptable.

 

Also let her know that she'll need to earn additional money and make those funds available to hire household help to cover her 50% of household tasks, stop doing things like getting her ATM cash, dropping off her dry cleaning etc.. she can either do those things herself or earn the money to pay somebody to do them for her.You are also employed and will not do more

than your 50% fair share, she is not ill or injured and needs to find a way

to handle her half the load.

 

In a similar vein, let her know that you intend to get a life, you want to go places, do things, you'd like to do them with her but if not you will be going out, making friends, having occasional "boy's night out's" and weekends away,she is also entitled to personal time but choosing to spend it working does not allow her to deprive you of your time, she will need to be responsible for the children and household during those times

 

As for sex, I'd tell her quietly that you can no longer live in a sexless marriage,she'll need to find time to schedule sex with you x2 per week and at least pretend to be enthusiastic about it or you will find someone who will.. her choice.

 

2. You can try once again to offer counseling, you could point out to her that it won't be just your demands being discussed, she will also be allowed, encouraged to air her grievances, things she wants to see changed in the marriage.

 

If you can't live with option number 1 and she won't go for option number 2 then hiring a lawyer and calling it quits is probably the only option left.

 

Extremely thorough. Thank you. Prior to my infidelity, I actually made a list similar to yours. We were out to dinner & discussing it casually. She got so upset that she left the restaurant, and we never got back to it.

 

1. We've tried so hard to shift her responsibilities as per your first paragraph, but she inevitably slides back into old habits. And I know that's partly my fault because I'm willing to pick up her slack.

 

Fortunately I do get nights out now & then, so that's not a huge issue. I would have liked more nights out with her, but that hasn't been a priority for her in a while.

 

I am 100% with you on the sex approach, and I appreciate how you put it. As I've said, I'm more than willing to toe the line on so many issues, but that one has been killing me quietly for years. So no matter what our future looks like, that has to change big time.

 

2. Again, very well put. I've said almost this exact thing to her soooo many times. I have told her I believe any counselor worth her salt will consider both people's grievances equally, and not make it a contest. She STILL won't have it. I've asked her to tell me specifically what else she'd want changed in the marriage, but have not gotten a clear answer. I'm convinced she wants to hold onto her anger at me, and she has said point blank she does not want to see my side of things at all.

 

Doesn't mean she won't have a breakdown/revelation & change her mind, but it seems less & less likely that will happen.

 

Still, I'm keeping this list. Thanks again.

[soserious1]

Nick,

 

My POV comes from being the bread winning spouse in a marriage that was sexless by my husband's choice. I am biased in that I can relate to being totally engrossed in one's professional life, Having said that, let me also say that I've always felt the onus was on me to find ways to meet my other life obligations.It's your wife's responsibility to get creative and find ways to balance her law career with her parental obligations.

 

When you do sit down with her, what you might consider doing is giving her a 2 week notice around select tasks,things like sharing the driving of the kids etc,just quietly say that the current labor division isn't working for you anymore and it isn't fair to the kids,tell her that you're confident in her ability to creatively balance her work with the needs of her kids, be pleasant, positive ,when the day comes, get up early and leave, go to the gym or out for coffee and leave the solution up to her.

 

You refusing to shoulder her share of parenting/household duties doesn't need to be nasty or involve ugly confrontation.

 

Let me also share with you that I went a good year to 18 months treading water in my failing marriage, in the back of my mind I knew what the probable outcome was going to be but I needed to try, I also needed time to prepare myself emotionally to cope with the divorce that I instinctively knew was coming.It's okay to tread water sometimes.. it gives us time to adjust to hard,painful realities.

[NickFeek]

Nick,

 

My POV comes from being the bread winning spouse in a marriage that was sexless by my husband's choice. I am biased in that I can relate to being totally engrossed in one's professional life, Having said that, let me also say that I've always felt the onus was on me to find ways to meet my other life obligations.It's your wife's responsibility to get creative and find ways to balance her law career with her parental obligations.

 

When you do sit down with her, what you might consider doing is giving her a 2 week notice around select tasks,things like sharing the driving of the kids etc,just quietly say that the current labor division isn't working for you anymore and it isn't fair to the kids,tell her that you're confident in her ability to creatively balance her work with the needs of her kids, be pleasant, positive ,when the day comes, get up early and leave, go to the gym or out for coffee and leave the solution up to her.

 

You refusing to shoulder her share of parenting/household duties doesn't need to be nasty or involve ugly confrontation.

 

Let me also share with you that I went a good year to 18 months treading water in my failing marriage, in the back of my mind I knew what the probable outcome was going to be but I needed to try, I also needed time to prepare myself emotionally to cope with the divorce that I instinctively knew was coming.It's okay to tread water sometimes.. it gives us time to adjust to hard,painful realities.

 

It helps to know where you're coming from. I agree that there doesn't need to be an ugly confrontation. And I also agree it's up to her to find ways to better balance her life. For years I took the misguided approach of badgering her about her work, getting pissy about our sex life. I then shifted that approach to staying back & suggesting changes, following her lead, and/or just hoping she'd engage. Also not a great way to solve the problem. BUT what I guess was missing in both the aggressive and passive approaches was HER initiative.

 

She's actually said to me she'd respond better to my/our needs if I didn't badger her, and what has happened in every case is things have gotten worse. She went right down the slippery slope. Work hours increased, and sex all but disappeared. She would complain I'd never try to initiate sex. I did over & over for the longest time, and after getting rejected in some way or another, I just stopped. And you can damn well be sure she's initiated sex maybe only twice in the last three years.

 

Nevertheless, I like your second paragraph so much that I'm going to give it a try.

 

And your last paragraph is a pretty accurate description of what I'm feeling now. This is why, even though I know the value of direct action, I am okay with things taking longer. The end result will be more organic for both parties, cause less intense trauma, and give us (or at least me) the sense that everything was tried that could have been. But I hadn't thought of this also giving us time to adjust. It's so extremely painful & sad for both of us now. In one big way, your last sentence is the first true ray of hope, because it suggests that not only can our suffering be easier to handle, but hopefully our kids will not be as devastated if the transition period is longer.

[soserious1]

Nick,

 

In my situation things were easier in that we did not have

children, I also owned this house free and clear prior to the marriage,luxuries you don't have at this point in time.

 

The time you spend treading water is also time to start thinking, do you want to pursue sole physical custody? if so what family/social supports do you have? Even with a 50/50 split of physical custody you're going to need supports in place to assist you. What about your career? if a divorce is coming what can you do while you are treading water to increase your earning power? You've mentioned needing both incomes to survive, how can debt be cut down prior to divorce? what assets do you have? what assets does she really have, any chance she's got holding you aren't aware of/ this is the time to find these things out, to start preparing.

 

If you wife come around when you stop picking up her obligations, then great your preparations will have reduced debt, clarified who's responsible for exactly which bills & as a bonus you've built a social support network of friends & family. If she doesn't come around, then you will be prepared to handle being a divorced father who actively parents his kids at least 50%

of the time.

[NickFeek]

Nick,

 

In my situation things were easier in that we did not have

children, I also owned this house free and clear prior to the marriage,luxuries you don't have at this point in time.

 

The time you spend treading water is also time to start thinking, do you want to pursue sole physical custody? if so what family/social supports do you have? Even with a 50/50 split of physical custody you're going to need supports in place to assist you. What about your career? if a divorce is coming what can you do while you are treading water to increase your earning power? You've mentioned needing both incomes to survive, how can debt be cut down prior to divorce? what assets do you have? what assets does she really have, any chance she's got holding you aren't aware of/ this is the time to find these things out, to start preparing.

 

If you wife come around when you stop picking up her obligations, then great your preparations will have reduced debt, clarified who's responsible for exactly which bills & as a bonus you've built a social support network of friends & family. If she doesn't come around, then you will be prepared to handle being a divorced father who actively parents his kids at least 50%

of the time.

 

Those are great questions for ANYONE to answer. I'm so focused on the kids, the logistics of all that, and our personal lives, that I hadn't even thought of the financial part. Very true that either way this thing ends these are great things to consider & get in order.

[2sunny]

so - from what i'm reading - you are prepared to give her two weeks to see if she is going to participate? and what about sex... planning to initiate that in the next two weeks too?

 

i think IF she understands that you aren't willing to carry all of the load - she will. most normal, caring women would.

 

the sex, just initiate every night. it IS considered part of a marriage - and a healthy part too. she can turn you down all she wants - but you may as well be seeing how willing she may become to please you. if she had sex more often - her drive may actually get stronger. that is usual... the more you have, the more you want. go without = it never occurs to you to get it.

 

take the lead... know what the goal is - to reinvest her in the household and the M. if she's going to stay distant and not participate - allow her to understand that then it is HER and her actions that will determine if the marriage moves forward or comes to an end.

 

at the end of two weeks - set a time to re-evaluate what has transpired and what the next course of action is to be - so she can be accountable for her action or inaction.

 

in the meantime- it MAY be useful to at least see what an attorney tells you in case you need to consider your options at the end of the two weeks.

[2sunny]

have you ever asked her straight up if she was sexually molested in her youth?

[2sunny]

the more i think of it - the more i think you are too nice a guy and she figures she can do whatever she wants and you're going to put up with whatever she dishes out.

[soserious1]

the more i think of it - the more i think you are too nice a guy and she figures she can do whatever she wants and you're going to put up with whatever she dishes out.

 

2sunny, as nice as Nick is,let's not forget that he too is capable of "dishing it out" he did have an affair after all.

[NickFeek]

so - from what i'm reading - you are prepared to give her two weeks to see if she is going to participate? and what about sex... planning to initiate that in the next two weeks too?

 

i think IF she understands that you aren't willing to carry all of the load - she will. most normal, caring women would.

 

the sex, just initiate every night. it IS considered part of a marriage - and a healthy part too. she can turn you down all she wants - but you may as well be seeing how willing she may become to please you. if she had sex more often - her drive may actually get stronger. that is usual... the more you have, the more you want. go without = it never occurs to you to get it.

 

take the lead... know what the goal is - to reinvest her in the household and the M. if she's going to stay distant and not participate - allow her to understand that then it is HER and her actions that will determine if the marriage moves forward or comes to an end.

 

at the end of two weeks - set a time to re-evaluate what has transpired and what the next course of action is to be - so she can be accountable for her action or inaction.

 

in the meantime- it MAY be useful to at least see what an attorney tells you in case you need to consider your options at the end of the two weeks.

 

The only catch with all this is that, because I screwed up big time with the cheating, sex is way off the table for now. The last time I had sex was with the OW back in September. I can set other two-week goals, but this one is a temporary no-go.

[NickFeek]

have you ever asked her straight up if she was sexually molested in her youth?

 

I asked her this years ago, several times, probably around when we first got married & "couldn't" consummate it. She said no. She said not that she remembers. She said her creepy uncle tickled her once. And that's as far as we got. IF she's blocking something, it's way down inside her. I have to believe SOMETHING happened, because that seems to be the only rational explanation for how she is. But she's very far from going there, farther now than when she was younger.

[NickFeek]

2sunny, as nice as Nick is,let's not forget that he too is capable of "dishing it out" he did have an affair after all.

 

As to the "nice guy" question, there have been plenty of times when I was not a nice guy, including the cheating and lying about it. Nice or not, the question is whether I have the guts/strength/endurance to do what needs to be done. And I can say without a doubt that yes I do. However my past enabling & learned helplessness led me to behave, I am not that person anymore. I have told her point blank I will never go back to the way things were, that if we're going to move forward as a couple, it has to include the changes we've been talking about here. That's when she said she can't make those changes, and that's why we're in that "transitional" period of separation.

 

She cried horribly last night. For the first time in about 10 days, she came to me in the middle of the night for comfort. I did my best, but she realizes I can't really give her what she needs anymore. I suggested she talk to friends & family, and also get help. She must have been in too bad a state to respond, and/or was avoiding answering. Either way I think she's slowly coming to the hard truth that for the time being we are done as a couple.

[2sunny]

As to the "nice guy" question, there have been plenty of times when I was not a nice guy, including the cheating and lying about it. Nice or not, the question is whether I have the guts/strength/endurance to do what needs to be done. And I can say without a doubt that yes I do. However my past enabling & learned helplessness led me to behave, I am not that person anymore. I have told her point blank I will never go back to the way things were, that if we're going to move forward as a couple, it has to include the changes we've been talking about here. That's when she said she can't make those changes, and that's why we're in that "transitional" period of separation.

 

She cried horribly last night. For the first time in about 10 days, she came to me in the middle of the night for comfort. I did my best, but she realizes I can't really give her what she needs anymore. I suggested she talk to friends & family, and also get help. She must have been in too bad a state to respond, and/or was avoiding answering. Either way I think she's slowly coming to the hard truth that for the time being we are done as a couple.

 

what is she crying about? when she's like that - emotions ARE at the forefront... that is the ideal time to ask her what she IS crying about.

 

 

crying represents a MULTITUDE of emotions - we shouldn't just assume it's sadness - what is it exactly? i'd seriously want her to describe what the tears represent in that moment... it could be anything bringing on the tears.

 

to have her explain it to you - would be ideal. did she say?

[NickFeek]

what is she crying about? when she's like that - emotions ARE at the forefront... that is the ideal time to ask her what she IS crying about.

 

crying represents a MULTITUDE of emotions - we shouldn't just assume it's sadness - what is it exactly? i'd seriously want her to describe what the tears represent in that moment... it could be anything bringing on the tears.

 

to have her explain it to you - would be ideal. did she say?

 

Good point. I was half asleep, so I may have missed some things, but the gist of it was, "Why did you do this to me?' or "Why did you do it?", as well as "Why did you want to hurt me?" and "I don't know what to do." And then also, "You broke my heart." and/or "You took everything we had and killed it." "I don't even know who you are." I don't think any of that is unreasonable considering what I did. My concern is more that she's stuck where she was six months ago, and seems to want to hold onto what she's feeling. She said she doesn't want to talk to anyone. Every so often she'll talk to a sister or her mother, but I can't imagine things get very deep beyond my infidelity.

[2sunny]

Good point. I was half asleep, so I may have missed some things, but the gist of it was, "Why did you do this to me?' or "Why did you do it?", as well as "Why did you want to hurt me?" and "I don't know what to do." And then also, "You broke my heart." and/or "You took everything we had and killed it." "I don't even know who you are." I don't think any of that is unreasonable considering what I did. My concern is more that she's stuck where she was six months ago, and seems to want to hold onto what she's feeling. She said she doesn't want to talk to anyone. Every so often she'll talk to a sister or her mother, but I can't imagine things get very deep beyond my infidelity.

 

naaaah, she just wants to make everything YOUR fault... because YOU are so nice and should take ALL the blame.

 

IF she looks ONLY at how SHE participates - which is a HEALTHY way of reviewing things - SHE would understand that SHE doesn't intend to participate = except to BLAME you for what she's not willing to DO.

 

that is the biggest problem you have on the table... WHO is she going to blame IF you leave? oh yah, it may only be herself... THAT'S what SHE doesn't intend to look at.

[NickFeek]

naaaah, she just wants to make everything YOUR fault... because YOU are so nice and should take ALL the blame.

 

IF she looks ONLY at how SHE participates - which is a HEALTHY way of reviewing things - SHE would understand that SHE doesn't intend to participate = except to BLAME you for what she's not willing to DO.

 

that is the biggest problem you have on the table... WHO is she going to blame IF you leave? oh yah, it may only be herself... THAT'S what SHE doesn't intend to look at.

 

I agree with it all, and was thinking we've been over this before. But then that last line really hit me. It must be terrifying for her to contemplate even a little bit that she may eventually need to focus in on herself. She's always been stubborn & well closed off, but there have been times when she'd risk it & try to delve a little deeper. I was expecting this crisis to bring that back up, but she's only retreating more. I have to leave for her to understand, and that may not even do it.