Are there seriously no decent men?

[TouchedByViolet]

The most important thing you can do if you want to meet good guys:

 

Ditch the Mr. Right concept

 

So many girls, I used to be one of them, make the mistake of having a listed criteria of their perfect man so when when we see a hot guy that meets with our criteria: He's at the right place, he's wearing the right style of clothes, he even has the right eye color, we go for it thinking he'll match all our other expectations only to be devastated when we find out his personality stinks.

 

You have to love people for who they are, not for who you want them to be.

 

Like LeaningIntoTheMuse said, the good guys are more often than not the ones who are getting rejected. You have to broaden your horizons and go for the guy you normally wouldn't consider, that doesn't mean you have to settle for someone you're not attracted to, but give the second or third or fourth best looking guy in the room a chance instead of Mr. Hot Shot. Check out the guy at the bookstore instead of the smokin' hot guy at the bar, go for the quiet guy instead of the overly confident guy. You may very well be pleasantly surprised when you give the guy you never considered a chance. Plus, I personally think there's something a thousand times more sexy about the everyday overlooked guy than the ripped muscled hot guy.

 

:love::love:

[Disillusioned]

I'm the 1 man in a million who gives the lie to the line that all men want sex. I don't have the least possible use for sex... unless it will make me rich.

 

But the flipside is a sort of "reverse beer goggles"... I keep my wits around me when I'm around women so I can try and figure out which ones I'd rather not bother with.

[Duckduckgoose]

If you are looking for me that are not after sex go meet some of the single guys at one of your local churches that wait till marriage for sex. You won't have to worry about him getting in your pants till he's got a ring on your finger.

 

Of course then the tables might be turned. You might be wanting some pre-marital sex and he will want to wait.

[spiderowl]

This is an interesting thread. I'd agree that a guy showing his attraction can in itself be attractive. His interest is flattering because you know he finds you attractive and it's clear what he wants. Also, he comes across as more manly simply because he dares to show his interest. Of course, going too far and gawping or making obvious and blatant moves without any respect for the woman fending him off is not flattering but extremely awkward. There is a fine line between showing interest in a woman as a potential lover and harassing her. He has to know when to back off.

 

It's not so clear with nice guys. Firstly, they pay you attention but they don't necessarily show their attraction. How can you know they are interested in you as more than just a friend? Sometimes you want them to stay as friends and don't want to get sexually involved with them. Sometimes you are not sure but as they are not showing their interest anyway, it's safer to assume they aren't that interested in you physically or that they daren't take the risk. Only if a woman was very attracted to them would she be likely to make a move if he is ambiguous or being just a friend.

 

I think the mistake many guys make is to come on too heavily at first, too eager to move from chatting to kissing, from touching to groping. It is important to make a physical link if you want it to become a physical relationship but this works best if it's gentle and gradual, building trust and being in no hurry to push the woman into sex.

 

I think it's true that all (well most) guys want sex. It's what's driving attraction in the first place and why they dare to make a move and ask a woman out. The woman needs to set the pace and if she feels he's moving too fast, tell him. If he doesn't restrain himself enough to make her feel at ease with him, she will get anxious and he will get dumped. Guys are so eager to move to sex that they assume the woman is feeling the same way and make the mistake of pressuring her. I've experienced this recently and it's very offputting. A guy will want sex and a woman shouldn't be afraid of it being only that, though in some cases it will be. Get to know the guy beforehand, give it a little time to see if he sticks around, and then enjoy a full relationship for as it does last.

[Macaw]

She probably had a terribly streak where guys stuck around long enough to get sex, then disappeared, just one too many times in a row. In a planet with over 3 billion women, more than a handful of them will be victims of such a bad streak.

 

I agree on some level with hoping2heal here - your past experiences made you bitter, and that is clouding your sense of judgement.

 

You have to consider that more often than not, that guy which may seem like a perfect pick for you is single for a reason. Maybe he isn't dating material, or maybe he's a hit-and-quit kind of guy. You should consider going for guys whom you can instantly spot a flaw or two, because that means they weren't trying to conceal them, unlike your previous #1 candidates.

 

Expanding on what IcyBabe said, you should take sometime to think about wheather you're being too picky or not. How big is your checklist when screening prospect dates? Does it have more than 3 or 4 items? If so, the problem might be you.

[Kamille]

The OP didn't ask about nice guys, didn't say she never wanted sex. She said she didn't want to be used for sex.

 

Then surprise, the LS regulars show up, and spell out the Gospel According to LS Men: Women ignore nice guys (alledgedly such as themselves) and that's why they only meet men who only want sex, and don't forget all men want sex and let's pretend the OP said she didn't want sex ever, instead of saying she didn't want to be used for sex.

 

You're not giving her advice, you're pushing your own personal agenda and using her thread to explore your issues.

 

Fine. It's LS and you're free to do what you want. I just think she should know she's not getting advice catered to her situation.

 

To the OP - honestly, it doesn't sound liek you're ready for an indoor movie date, as H2H pointed out. Suggest something else and wait until you're feeling confident that this guy is interested in getting to know you before you schedule a more intimate date.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Kamille

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Kamille, maybe the advice of the so-called "nice guys" is accurate, and it's the women who are not listening?

[Kamille]

Kamille, maybe the advice of the so-called "nice guys" is accurate, and it's the women who are not listening?

 

I'm sorry - I just had to quickly browse through the thread to see if the advice given in anyway applied to the OP.

 

A lot of it doesn't. It's only the usual drivel about the mythology some guys have built up amongst themselves about how they think women think. If it helps you deal with your frustrations, good for you. If you're hoping that by repeating often enough on here that women should date nice guys they'll end up dating you, you're on the wrong track.

 

I know this might come as a shocker to some, but I know women who date nice guys. But the fact these guys are nice is not the reason women date them. Women don't primarily date guys because they're nice, women will date guys because they're interesting.

 

It's the same scenario on both side of the gender divide. Are you attracted to a woman because she's nice or because she's interesting?

 

The biggest mistake self-titled nice guys make is assuming being nice should be the one redeeming quality that lands them a date. And then hoping to convince women that they're the ones who don't have their priorities straight. As I've said elsewhere: Women aren't attracted to men because they're naughty or nice. We're not your mom, your teacher or santa claus. We date men we find interesting.

 

Now, as you see, this has nothing to do with the OP, and for that I apologize.

[Mrlonelyone]

Kamile I only said that I heard the same kind of talk in sooo many nice guys threads. Some women have came on here and said themselves XYZ about guys who are "too nice" or whatever.

 

I also gave the advice that she should just accept the cuddling but refuse the sex.

[Woggle]

The OP didn't ask about nice guys, didn't say she never wanted sex. She said she didn't want to be used for sex.

 

Then surprise, the LS regulars show up, and spell out the Gospel According to LS Men: Women ignore nice guys (alledgedly such as themselves) and that's why they only meet men who only want sex, and don't forget all men want sex and let's pretend the OP said she didn't want sex ever, instead of saying she didn't want to be used for sex.

 

You're not giving her advice, you're pushing your own personal agenda and using her thread to explore your issues.

 

Fine. It's LS and you're free to do what you want. I just think she should know she's not getting advice catered to her situation.

 

To the OP - honestly, it doesn't sound liek you're ready for an indoor movie date, as H2H pointed out. Suggest something else and wait until you're feeling confident that this guy is interested in getting to know you before you schedule a more intimate date.

 

There is some truth to it. There are women who complain that there are no good men left yet they ignore the numbers of good men around in favor of trying to somehow turn the jerks into her ideal men and then want to paint all men with the same brush when she realizes that doesn't work. Why is it that whenever it is suggested that maybe a woman should look at herself to solve her dating issues it is considered an attack?

[Kamille]

Kamile I only said that I heard the same kind of talk in sooo many nice guys threads. Some women have came on here and said themselves XYZ about guys who are "too nice" or whatever.

 

Well that's my point. Being nice or naughty isn't the magic key to getting a date or keeping a woman's interest. It's not what's keeping you from getting dates either.

 

I guess you could say I don't understand why some men spend so much energy focusing on how they think women should react to "being nice". It's like if a woman decided "being smart" was the one reason she struggled on the dating scene and then spent the rest of her time complaining that men aren't into smart women, that men only liked ditzy blondes, yadiyadiyadiya. Then she would come on here, find buddies, and started a campaign where on every thread a guy posted, she came in and told him the problem was that men didn't like smart women. Wouldn't you tell her: "Some men like smart women, but being smart isn't a sufficient criteria to land you a date?"

 

I also gave the advice that she should just accept the cuddling but refuse the sex.

 

Which is good advice - but if she isn't ready to have sex, and it seriously sounds like she isn't ready, she should stay out of intimate settings. It sends a mixed signal, and there's a good chance he'll end up making a move anyway. In my experience, dates in private settings before one is ready to have sex only leads to frustration for both parties.

[Kamille]

There is some truth to it. There are women who complain that there are no good men left yet they ignore the numbers of good men around in favor of trying to somehow turn the jerks into her ideal men and then want to paint all men with the same brush when she realizes that doesn't work. Why is it that whenever it is suggested that maybe a woman should look at herself to solve her dating issues it is considered an attack?

 

Is there any indication that this is what the OP is dong? If so, I totally missed it.

 

It rather sounds to me like as soon as the guys start acting like jerks, she shows them the door.

[Woggle]

There actually are a good number of women who swear that the reason they have not found love is because men are intimidated by smart, successful and independent women. You hear this all the time when in reality they are obnoxious, condescending and have a snotty attitude.

 

If a man came on here saying there are no good women left people would suggest that maybe her change the kind of women he is pursuing so why should we not do the same for a woman having issues?

[Kamille]

There actually are a good number of women who swear that the reason they have not found love is because men are intimidated by smart, successful and independent women. You hear this all the time when in reality they are obnoxious, condescending and have a snotty attitude.

 

Exactly. Of course these women exists, which is why I picked the example. The difference is, they haven't formed a club here on LS, where they invade all the threads. And you're right, the "being smart" club functions much the same way as the "being nice" one. Mostly, it's an excuse. It's an abdication of personal responsibility.

 

If every time a man opened a thread on LS, a bunch of women went on there to complain about how men don't want to date smart women, you would find it gets old really quickly.

 

 

 

If a man came on here saying there are no good women left people would suggest that maybe her change the kind of women he is pursuing so why should we not do the same for a woman having issues?

 

Sure. And the advice that she try and figure out if she can pick better guys isn't bad. But we don't know how she met these guys and no one has asked. However, many of the posters here assumed a lot of things the OP never said.

[Woggle]

I don't know if there is a club but when women on here say that some women tend to agree with them instead of suggesting they change their attitude. They are very much validated.

 

It is wrong to assume what the OP's intentions are but it is very frustrating for men who done nothing but treat women with respect instead of sex toys to hear there are no good men left. Honestly in many cases women who say this would not know what a good man was if he was right in front of face.

[johan]

It seems like lately any thread where a woman expresses any kind of preference about what kind of guy she wants or how she wants to be treated attracts the same swarm of guys who essentially end up lamenting their own fate and completely ignore what she's saying.

 

As far as the original poster goes: I'd say go slow with the new guy and when it comes to online dating, time is your friend. Sooner or later you'll find someone offering the same kind of connection you're after.

[allenmj]

The most important thing you can do if you want to meet good guys:

 

Ditch the Mr. Right concept

 

So many girls, I used to be one of them, make the mistake of having a listed criteria of their perfect man so when when we see a hot guy that meets with our criteria: He's at the right place, he's wearing the right style of clothes, he even has the right eye color, we go for it thinking he'll match all our other expectations only to be devastated when we find out his personality stinks.

 

You have to love people for who they are, not for who you want them to be.

 

Like LeaningIntoTheMuse said, the good guys are more often than not the ones who are getting rejected. You have to broaden your horizons and go for the guy you normally wouldn't consider, that doesn't mean you have to settle for someone you're not attracted to, but give the second or third or fourth best looking guy in the room a chance instead of Mr. Hot Shot. Check out the guy at the bookstore instead of the smokin' hot guy at the bar, go for the quiet guy instead of the overly confident guy. You may very well be pleasantly surprised when you give the guy you never considered a chance. Plus, I personally think there's something a thousand times more sexy about the everyday overlooked guy than the ripped muscled hot guy.

 

 

Best advice ever.

[Mrlonelyone]

I see what you mean Woggle. There seems to be an idea floating around here that a woman can't have a faulty people picker.

 

We all to an extent choose who we will pursue for a date. If I only ever choose women who ended up cheating on me... it would have to me that something was wrong with me. Either I drive them to cheat...or I pick cheaters.

 

Like the old saying goes... Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on me.

[GoodOnPaper]

I know this might come as a shocker to some, but I know women who date nice guys.

 

You're right . . . that IS rather shocking.

 

The biggest mistake self-titled nice guys make is assuming being nice should be the one redeeming quality that lands them a date.

 

It's not an evil plot. We're simply trying to set ourselves apart from other guys . . . the same way other guys use their looks, muscles, cars, etc. to do the same. We know that the "nice guy" is probably considered the lowest life form on the planet with all of his bad qualities -- nerdy, awkward, not assertive, blah blah blah. Maybe one positive quality we do have is that the idea of a manogamous LTR does not freak us out. For me, that was true even as a teenager . . . and it was the biggest turnoff ever, but that's a whole other story.

 

I don't think that anyone deserves to be used for sex and it looks like the OP has been through a rough patch but it sounds like when it comes to attraction, she separates the sex and relationship aspects. I hate it when people suggest that you have to choose primarily one or the other -- either find a way to "tame" the ONS guy or make the relationship guy more "exciting" -- but maybe that's the case here.

[somedude81]

If not "nice", then what should we be?

 

Funny how the most common advice is to be yourself. But if myself is nice, then what the hell should I do?

[betterdeal]

The OP didn't ask about nice guys, didn't say she never wanted sex. She said she didn't want to be used for sex.

 

She did ask if there were any decent guys left, then said she'd been out on dates and didn't like that the other party wanted to have sex with her. She wants a sexless relationship (to begin with, at the least) and has personal issues to do with trust, according to her own words.

 

Personally, I think dating when you're in that condition is likely to be more frustrating than enjoyment. I also think that there are plenty of decent men "left" but she's looking in wrong places and at the wrong time. But if she wants to continue using formal dating as a means to meet a guy she likes, telling her prospective partners what's on offer is going to save her time and resources, as well as them.

 

Doing things that aren't formal dating, such as finding a pastime, sport, hobby or other activity that might bring her into contact with different guys is an option, and has the added bonus of being enjoyable in and of itself. Also, guys who get off their arses and do something for fun are generally going to be more healthy minded and interesting people than the cold calling approach of dating sites.

[DitkasMoustache]

He said if we watched one on the couch, it's better for cuddling...is it way too soon to cuddle? What does this mean? Is he looking to get physical? I'm so confused. I would love advice from a guy

 

What are you? Twelve?

 

I'm just guessin' here... you LOVE the attention from these guys. But more than that you LOVE the power to shoot them down. Your post positively screams passive-aggressive.

 

The adult answer to your questions is that yes. Yes it is "way too soon to cuddle" because you can't figure out that the guy is giving you very clear signals that he finds you physically attractive and would like to explore that a bit with you, and he's trying to get a sense for your feelings on the subject. But instead of addressing it with him you go to the internet to find some validation for your theory that all men are only interested in sex. More importantly, you seem to feel justified in somehow finding offense in his interest, as though any man expressing any interest in you as a sexual creature is de facto evidence that all he wants is to get into your pants.

 

Seriously lady, if your batting average is really as miserable as you've presented it to be you might want to spend some alone time in order to indulge in a bit of introspection.

[Kamille]

I see what you mean Woggle. There seems to be an idea floating around here that a woman can't have a faulty people picker.

 

 

What's as astounding is the idea that no guy has ever been interested in a girl only for sex.

 

Again, the OP hasn't answered the questions about how she figures this out, where she meets these guys. Of course she needs to improve her people picker.

 

That doesn't change the fact that a lot of you are making a lot of assumptions about this OP because of your own personal issues.

 

If not "nice", then what should we be?

 

Funny how the most common advice is to be yourself. But if myself is nice, then what the hell should I do?

 

Be nice, be yourself, but don't expect a reward for being nice.

 

And question yourself on what "being nice" means. Do you interact with attractive women the same way you would with friends, only a bit more flirtatious? If not what is it that you do? If it's anything that ressembles pandering to women's every needs in the hope one will give you a chance: that's not being nice, that's seeking validation. Are you nice because that's who you are or are you nice because you lack a bit of self-confidence? There's a huge difference between the two.

 

Anyways, I'm done taking this thread off-topic.

[oldguy]

We are all taken? Jk.

I like the info in this link, maybe you will find it a little helpful as well; http://www.topdatingtips.com/dating-and-sex.htm

[Macaw]

We are all taken? Jk.

I like the info in this link, maybe you will find it a little helpful as well; http://www.topdatingtips.com/dating-and-sex.htm

 

Stopped reading after:

 

An honest man will tell you that if he has sex with a girl on a first date, he may enjoy it, but he probably won’t want to date her seriously because the mystery and the challenge are gone.

 

So everyone who feels differently is a dishonest man. Fascinating article. What about the educated, modern, liberal man who'll respect a woman more if she acts according to her beliefs and desires instead of what someone else told her to do? I guess we don't exist .